83 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

Bhelen's pretty easy for Commoner Warden.

 

Otherwise, Harrowmont felt like the instinctive choice to me.

[Qun00]

While we're at it... do the side quests in Orzammar remain available after finishing Anvil of the Void?

I'll never forget the time when I made that mistake with the Dalish. All npcs would only respond with short greetings.

[Aren]

There are several merchants in Orzammar that give good insights in both Bhelen and Harrowmont policies.

[Cyrus Amell]

I just brought Zevran along and agreed with him (wink wink) that Bhelen seemed the stronger candidate. We are in a Blight, so why would we entrust a good chunk of the war effort to a dwarven lord who cannot even get warriors to fight for him in the arena? The Provings no less? We ourselves had no problem running into Harrowmont supporters willing to ambush us on the streets. Seems a bit daft doesn't it?

 

Lord Harrowmont's Steward, Dulin Forender: "Bhelen has found someway to blackmail or intimidate House Harrowmont's best fighters into stepping down"

 

Later... 

 

Harrowmont Fanatic: "Bhelen has corrupted the Warden!" (6 dwarves attack)

[straykat]

I just brought Zevran along and agreed with him (wink wink) that Bhelen seemed the stronger candidate. We are in a Blight, so why would we entrust a good chunk of the war effort to a dwarven lord who cannot even get warriors to fight for him in the arena? The Provings no less? We ourselves had no problem running into Harrowmont supporters willing to ambush us on the streets. Seem a bit daft doesn't it?

 

Those things wouldn't be very apparent to some of my wardens. Or me, as a player, at first. Both of them need your help. And Bhelen, for example, would remind my elves of tyrants they already dislike. They wouldn't be as carefree as Zevran.

 

Bhelen's positive point is he helps the casteless, but it was never clear to me at first. You only hear the occassional line from the town crier or something.

[Myalzalean]

My Dwarven Noble actually put Bhelen on the throne, but for me it was easy to justify.

 

The dwarven political landscape isn't that much different from "The Game" in Orlais. Bhelen simply played it much better than my Aeducan.

 

Sure, my Aeducan was pissed about getting played but more so at himself for not realizing it sooner and stopping it from happening.

 

If anything my Aeducan gained respect for Bhelen for the play because it was unlikely Endrin was ever going to endorse him for the throne.

 

Lastly, my Aeducan would rather see another Aeducan, even if it is Bhelen, on the throne than let it pass on to some other House.

[straykat]

My Dwarven Noble actually put Bhelen on the throne, but for me it was easy to justify.

 

The dwarven political landscape isn't that much different from "The Game" in Orlais. Bhelen simply played it much better than my Aeducan.

 

Sure, my Aeducan was pissed about getting played but more so at himself for not realizing it sooner and stopping it from happening.

 

If anything my Aeducan gained respect for Bhelen for the play because it was unlikely Endrin was ever going to endorse him for the throne.

 

Lastly, my Aeducan would rather see another Aeducan, even if it is Bhelen, on the throne than let it pass on to some other House.

 

My main prob with that is my Aeducans are generally more ruthless and noble.. so they don't care for his casteless love. They're not very likeable, but I gotta do something to make them different from other characters.

 

That and if you're male and have a kid, it's likely that Aeducans will be around for some time. I'm surprised they even made it important to put in the Keep, if you wish.

[cJohnOne]

I usually like Harrowmont but if you go to the assembly and see Bhelen's man there and just do what he wants then it's easy to get onto that path.  In fact that's what I did in earlier playthroughs before I played the Dwarf Noble origin.

[sniper_arrow]

While we're at it... do the side quests in Orzammar remain available after finishing Anvil of the Void?

I'll never forget the time when I made that mistake with the Dalish. All npcs would only respond with short greetings.

 

Yes, if you're talking about the side-quests like Dagna.

[Illegitimus]

Bhelen's pretty easy for Commoner Warden.

 

Otherwise, Harrowmont felt like the instinctive choice to me.

 

Not for my City Elf.  She looked at Orzammar, said to herself "What decisions are most likely to undermine this pesthole's stability?"  Bhelen all the way.  And let's intervene to give that guy his prayer circle too.  My Human Noble was so offended by Bhelen's attempt to use him to pass forged paperwork that choosing Bhelen wasn't an option.  

[straykat]

Not for my City Elf.  She looked at Orzammar, said to herself "What decisions are most likely to undermine this pesthole's stability?"  Bhelen all the way.  And let's intervene to give that guy his prayer circle too.  

 

Cool.

 

By instinctive, I meant my first choice ever. I just thought he was an ass.

[TEWR]

 

 

 And let's intervene to give that guy his prayer circle too

 

Though I get that was your CE's thoughts, what are your own personal thoughts on that?

[GoldenGail3]

Becuase Bhelen seemed just better than Harrowmont, and my Cousland disregarded Harrowmont for his policies of treating the Castless as shite as not okay and so wanted to make Ozammar a better place. She didn't like Bhelen either, but at least he would do something about the Castless's conditions. Plus he was stronger too... I unbiasly support Bhelen no matter what he does, becuase it benfits Ozammar in someway..

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I remember one of the other members here, a woman named Corker, told the story of how she chose. She wanted to choose Harrowmont because of RP, but wound up going with Bhelen at the very last chance to change her mind because of one too many references to Orzammar's traditions. This was a problem for her because of the quest Zerlinda's Woe, where you encounter a woman who has to contend with Orzammar tradition demanding she abandon her newborn son because the father was casteless. If you think about it, that same quest can give you a decent RP reason not to go with Harrowmont: he really does seem to buy into the casteless deserving what they got, which we see at least one good reason to doubt.

 

As for my most memorable example of choosing Bhelen for non-metagame reasons... I was playing a Dalish Elf, and really trying to roleplay her. I didn't touch quests a Dalish Elf would not have touched, and ultimately decided to go with Harrowmont because I thought a Dalish Elf would be big on the tradition-loving candidate. Pretty much her entire life has been shaped by tradition, and I figured that she'd see it as a plus that Harrowmont shaped his that way too. The difficulty was that Zevran was in the party, and in addition to his legitimate point about Harrowmont's men not fighting for him (his second point about Harrowmont being too scared to grant an audience applies just as much to Bhelen, but the first one really doesn't) Diana was romancing him. So, I decided Diana would go with him on this to score points. It's not that I viewed her as a weak, desperate woman who'd do anything to make her boyfriend like her more. It's more that I viewed her as a flawed woman who doesn't care as much about the fate of the dwarves as she maybe should, and does care about her boyfriend's opinion. She might have had a different reaction if Zevran had tried to change her mind on something she felt more strongly about, like selling or sacrificing the Alienage elves or letting Genitivi boost the Chantry's legitimacy by telling the world about the Urn of Sacred Ashes; as it was, she just viewed this as a minor suggestion on a topic that ultimately didn't matter. (Besides, he did have somewhat of a point.)

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Oh, and my three dwarven characters.

 

My first one was a DC. Easy choice.

 

I headcanon'd that my second, a DN, would probably be able to guess how the epilogue slides would go due to having lived with Bhelen and having had Harrowmont as a surrogate uncle.

 

My third was a DN who started and ended her decision-making process with the phrase "Aeducan throne."

[Qun00]

Is it possible to start with Harrowmont and then move on to Bhelen?

[sylvanaerie]

Is it possible to start with Harrowmont and then move on to Bhelen?

 

yes. Just change your support at the assembly after you resolve Branka's quest.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Is it possible to start with Harrowmont and then move on to Bhelen?

You have two chances to switch sides. One is right after you do the initial quest to gain an interview with one side: Vartag refuses to speak with you because you fought for Harrowmont in the Proving, or Dulin Forender because you deceived two people whose votes Harrowmont was buying, and you tell them you joined the faction you did with the intention of betraying them. If you're defecting to Bhelen, Vartag will give you a chance to prove it by planting evidence that Harrowmont was behind the DN's wrongful exile in the Carta's headquarters, whereas Forender will ask that you recover evidence that Bhelen was responsible.

 

My first DN joined Bhelen, did the quest to defect to Harrowmont (which raised the PC's reputation at Bhelen's expense) and then crowned Bhelen anyway. My first Dalish Elf joined Harrowmont and then honestly defected to Bhelen.

 

You can also defect by choosing to crown the king you weren't working for at the Assembly meeting after the bossfight at the Anvil of the Void, as Slyvanaerie points out. My understanding is that that's what Corker did in the story she told.

[sylvanaerie]

You have two chances to switch sides. One is right after you do the initial quest to gain an interview with one side: Vartag refuses to speak with you because you fought for Harrowmont in the Proving, or Dulin Forender because you deceived two people whose votes Harrowmont was buying, and you tell them you joined faction you did with the intention of betraying them. If you're defecting to Bhelen, Vartag will give you a chance to prove it by planting evidence that Harrowmont was behind the DN's wrongful exile in the Carta's headquarters, whereas Forender will ask that you recover evidence that Bhelen was responsible.

 

My first DN joined Bhelen, did the quest to defect to Harrowmont (which raised the PC's reputation at Bhelen's expense) and then crowned Bhelen anyway. My first Dalish Elf joined Harrowmont and then honestly defected to Bhelen.

 

You can also defect by choosing to crown the king you weren't working for at the Assembly meeting after the bossfight at the Anvil of the Void, as Slyvanaerie points out. My understanding is that that's what Corker did in the story she told.

 

Actually I forgot about the 'switch after doing the favor that gets you the audience'.  A DN can prove their innocence this way by doing Bhelen's dirty work first, then going to Harrowmont.  In which case you find the incriminating papers in Jarvia's hideout that prove Bhelen hired carta thugs to kill Trian.  I did it that way (metagamed) on my DN when I learned how to do it.

[straykat]

Is there a way to side with Bhelen, but also kill Gavorn. That guy's a punk... even bigger than Bhelen.

[Remmirath]

Asking around and observing the state of affairs in Orzammar does give the impression that Harrowmont, if elected, will keep things as they are and that Bhelen might shake things up a bit. Since the state of the Dusters was of much more concern to my City Elf Warden than that of the nobles, he decided that Bhelen was clearly the better choice, as that might give the dwarven commoners more of a chance. He also had a tendency to be swayed by his companions on any issues he felt he was out of his depth on, so Zevran arguing against Harrowmont was part of why he made that choice. Mostly, though, it was that the dwarven commoners were the only people he'd encountered who he felt had it worse off than the elves of the alienage, so if there was any chance to change that he felt it was worth taking.

 

Most of the rest of my Wardens have sided with Harrowmont, however, believing him to be the more honorable candidate. My first Warden cared a lot more about intentions and results than he did about honour, and that hasn't been true of the others. The Dalish elf just didn't care about politics at all, and he flipped a coin. I don't remember which way that ended up going, since my first Warden is the one who I've been using the world state of for successive games. I also had one Warden (an elven mage) who just sized the two up, made a flash judgement that Harrowmont was weak, and decided to support Bhelen because of it. She didn't bother trying to justify most of her decisions. 

[Qis]

I just brought Zevran along and agreed with him (wink wink) that Bhelen seemed the stronger candidate. We are in a Blight, so why would we entrust a good chunk of the war effort to a dwarven lord who cannot even get warriors to fight for him in the arena? The Provings no less? We ourselves had no problem running into Harrowmont supporters willing to ambush us on the streets. Seems a bit daft doesn't it?

 

Lord Harrowmont's Steward, Dulin Forender: "Bhelen has found someway to blackmail or intimidate House Harrowmont's best fighters into stepping down"

 

Later... 

 

Harrowmont Fanatic: "Bhelen has corrupted the Warden!" (6 dwarves attack)

 

Same can be said to Bhelen, why would support a prince who can't even get to the throne despite having warriors working for him?

 

The Warden also can deal with Bhelen men ambushes on the street...and beat Bhelen top warriors in the Proving...

 

It is not that i support Harrowmont, i don't, but this not justify to make a choice between both candidates

[springacres]

My canon Warden (M!Surana) ended up choosing sides based solely on which candidate didn't ask him to pass off forged documents as genuine.  (He was a tad suspicious that Bhelen's man suggested he didn't need to go to the Shaperate, when he'd heard that was where the dwarves kept most of their records.)  My F!Cousland is probably going to go with Bhelen, because she approves of keeping power in the family.  My DC will also go with Bhelen, because of Rica.  My F!Aeducan is going with Harrowmont to give her scumbag brother a taste of his own medicine.  And I have no idea how my other Wardens are going to lean.

[Illegitimus]

Though I get that was your CE's thoughts, what are your own personal thoughts on that?

 

It can't help but cause trouble.  Sure you might do it if you fully bought into the Chantry's party line which requires everyone to join the chant for the world to be saved, but basically it's an act of sabotage toward Orzammar's social structure that can only end with everyone who joins the circle being banished to the surface as the best case scenario.  At worst it just leads to more blood on the stone.  

[oletreebark]

Easy decision for my Dwarf Commoner. He disliked most everything about Orzammar's culture, and Bhelen seemed more likely to bring in change. Not to mention his sister now lived in Bhelen's house with his son.