1933 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

Erm... is the badass gay character thread just gone now, or am I simply not seeing it?

 

In any case, it seems like its creator is trying to start again. Hopefully there will be better results.

[nightscrawl]

Random, stupid thing... it makes me crazy when people don't pick an avatar for the forums! I felt something similar when playing World of Warcraft and seeing hunters running around with unnamed pets. Some of the avatar-less posters have thousands of posts, too.

[Biotic Apostate]

Erm... is the badass gay character thread just gone now, or am I simply not seeing it?

 

In any case, it seems like its creator is trying to start again. Hopefully there will be better results.

It's not on my list, so I guess after that completely idiotic gay vs. asexual fight, the OP had enough. Can't blame them (although I sometimes like to revisit threads, and now likes given/received in it are gone :/ ), both sides were throwing really stupid arguments around. We'll see how this one goes.

 

I've seen people with thousands of posts, who don't know how to edit or hide their posts, or how to quote properly. Some just weirdly don't feel the need to explore the website's functions.

[SardaukarElite]

It's not on my list, so I guess after that completely idiotic gay vs. asexual fight, the OP had enough. Can't blame them (although I sometimes like to revisit threads, and now likes given/received in it are gone :/ ), both sides were throwing really stupid arguments around. We'll see how this one goes.

 

Wait, why was there a gay vs asexual fight? 

 

Was this about whether Josephine should have a sex scene again? 

[Akrabra]

So i spent an hour or so today on the IMDB board for Rogue one a Star Wars story. And yes it is all about female leads and mary sue. Who the frack cares if the main character is a woman?

 

What i am more worried about is what was shown in the trailer. It looks kind of, only ok and nothing else, but no we have to make a big deal out of gender, skin colour etc for every damn thing these days. And i am so sick of it. 

 

What we should be talking abou is whether a movie, game, comic or whatever is good or bad, not what types of people it involve. I am officially done with you Internet! Alteast for today.

 

Happy Sunday to the lovely people in here atleast, don't visit IMDB or any official Star Wars forum!

[Donk]

So i spent an hour or so on the IMDB board today for Star Wars - Rogue one. And yes it is all about female leads and mary sue. Who the frack cares if the main character is a woman?

 

What i am more worried about is what was shown in the trailer. It looks kind of only ok, but no we have to make a problem out of gender, colour etc for every damn thing these days. So sick of it.

 

We should be talking about whether a movie, game, comic or whatever is good, not what types of people it involve. I am officially done with you Internet! Alteast for today. Happy Sunday to the lovely people in here atleast, don't visit IMDB or any official Star Wars forum!

 

Of late this is actually my biggest pet peeve in regard to everything, and it's from both sides of the "argument".

 

It's really ironic because what they both have in common is the fact that they really don't understand equality. What that term means, at least to me, is the idea that everybody, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation blah blah blah are the treated the same and are not singled out due to said race, gender, orientation. So, if the main character of X movie is black and female. So friggin what?

 

I feel sorry for BW devs and it is my suspicion.. (um, what I'm about to say will not be agreeable to some people especially if they enjoyed DA:I, but it's just an example) so I will spoiler it.

 

Spoiler

Disclaimer: I'm not bashing the game, and I've played it a few times. However, I do believe it is flawed. Particularly the story and how it was executed. I had a slight suspicion that the reason behind it could possibly be because of the fanbase and the constant complaining. "No playersexual LI's please, I want different characters with diff orientations because playersexual offends me." etc. So it seems like the devs (because one thing that stood out to me about the game was how well done the characters were, some of the best written characters I've seen anywhere) perhaps put more effort and resources into fleshing out the characters. I also think they went overboard with romance options, and there is nothing wrong with romance in itself -- but due to discarding playersexuality and/or trying to appeal to everybody's needs, much of the other aspects of the game suffered. On top of that, despite the efforts put into characters and romance options, people STILL complained. In fact, it's worse than before. Just look at the bashing Dorian receives because he's a "token stereotypical gay character" (not my opinion). And then there is Sera, the first lesbian character in the series. "Waaaah, she's a false representation of a lesbian. She makes us look immature and stupid, waaaaah."

I don't know about anybody else but if I was a dev, and looking at a majority of these complaints (that often mix in real life political/social issues, which is the crux of my problem here) I'd be very frustrated and would be inclined to tell all of these people to go **** themselves.

 

Of course, there is no concrete proof in the claims I have made there. It's merely an opinion, but hey, at least I avoided using "SJW agenda" to back it up

 

I guess I'm just frustrated with the fact that one cannot simply enjoy a story, in any medium of fiction, without bringing internet social/political BS into it. I especially despise people who go overboard with making false, hypocritical claims (looking at you, Vivienne stereotype thread).

[wright1978]

So i spent an hour or so on the IMDB board today for Star Wars - Rogue one. And yes it is all about female leads and mary sue. Who the frack cares if the main character is a woman?

 

What i am more worried about is what was shown in the trailer. It looks kind of only ok, but no we have to make a problem out of gender, colour etc for every damn thing these days. So sick of it.

 

We should be talking about whether a movie, game, comic or whatever is good, not what types of people it involve. I am officially done with you Internet! Alteast for today. Happy Sunday to the lovely people in here atleast, don't visit IMDB or any official Star Wars forum!

 

So i spent an hour or so on the IMDB board today for Star Wars - Rogue one. And yes it is all about female leads and mary sue. Who the frack cares if the main character is a woman?

 

What i am more worried about is what was shown in the trailer. It looks kind of only ok, but no we have to make a problem out of gender, colour etc for every damn thing these days. So sick of it.

 

We should be talking about whether a movie, game, comic or whatever is good, not what types of people it involve. I am officially done with you Internet! Alteast for today. Happy Sunday to the lovely people in here atleast, don't visit IMDB or any official Star Wars forum!

 

Yeah the word mary sue just makes me zone out. Just watched the trailer for the first time and not overly hyped, everything seemed really heavy handed.

[Biotic Apostate]

Wait, why was there a gay vs asexual fight? 
 
Was this about whether Josephine should have a sex scene again?

Nah, this time it started from someone requesting a gay asexual romance, and a full one, not like Josephine where you can assume what you want about sex. And then the discussion started whether that option should cut into one of the gay romance options. Then the oppression Olympics started. "Gay men don't know what discrimination is, not like ace people" "asexuals are a tiny group, no need for representation." And so on. Stupidity on both sides. And then people started guilting others into liking certain romances. Glad that's gone.

[Donk]

Nah, this time it started from someone requesting a gay asexual romance, and a full one, not like Josephine where you can assume what you want about sex. And then the discussion started whether that option should cut into one of the gay romance options. Then the oppression Olympics started. "Gay men don't know what discrimination is, not like ace people" "asexuals are a tiny group, no need for representation." And so on. Stupidity on both sides. And then people started guilting others into liking certain romances. Glad that's gone.

 

Lmao and don't forget the, "It's fine, just so long as it doesn't infringe on my preferences."

[SardaukarElite]

Who the frack cares if the main character is a woman?

 

I'm pleased they're using one. 

 

I guess I'm just frustrated with the fact that one cannot simply enjoy a story, in any medium of fiction, without bringing internet social/political BS into it. 

 

But one can. I can. I'm guessing you can.

 

The thing is that there aren't actually sides, there isn't a line drawn across the internet, there's just people arguing and some of them are stupid. It's the internet if you want to find the worst argument for something that's not hard, you can also find reasonable people discussing how things can be improved without losing site of enjoying what is for what it is, yet nobody seems to be interested in repeating the reasonable discussion, only the stupid ones. 

[daveliam]

I also spent some time on the imdb board for Rogue One yesterday.  I didn't know that they had released a trailer, so I was excited.  Only to have that excitement destroyed when I saw that, literally, almost half of the threads were about "SJWs" and "Mary Sue Rey" and "Feminism is ruining Star Wars!?!?".  I couldn't even bring myself to wade through the **** to find the few threads actually talking about the show.  My favorite bullshit line was (paraphrased):  "But now there are two new Star Wars stories and a woman is the lead in both of them.  Who are my little boys supposed to look up to in this franchise?  I guess it's only for little girls now....."  Had I been drinking a coffee, it surely would have come out of my nose at that one.  Who gives a ****?!?  Star Wars is awesome and I don't give a **** who the main character is, as long as the story is a good one.  The beauty of Star Wars is that there are always a ton of great characters (well, minus most of the prequels).  Ugh.  Why can't people just enjoy something without trolling it?  I just can't with internet culture anymore......

[Steelcan]

I'm more disappointed that its not gonna center around Wedge Antilles as I thought it was going to

[HuldraDancer]

I also spent some time on the imdb board for Rogue One yesterday.  I didn't know that they had released a trailer, so I was excited.  Only to have that excitement destroyed when I saw that, literally, almost half of the threads were about "SJWs" and "Mary Sue Rey" and "Feminism is ruining Star Wars!?!?".  I couldn't even bring myself to wade through the **** to find the few threads actually talking about the show.  My favorite bullshit line was (paraphrased):  "But now there are two new Star Wars stories and a woman is the lead in both of them.  Who are my little boys supposed to look up to in this franchise?  I guess it's only for little girls now....."  Had I been drinking a coffee, it surely would have come out of my nose at that one.  Who gives a ****?!?  Star Wars is awesome and I don't give a **** who the main character is, as long as the story is a good one.  The beauty of Star Wars is that there are always a ton of great characters (well, minus most of the prequels).  Ugh.  Why can't people just enjoy something without trolling it?  I just can't with internet culture anymore......

 

Wow. If my cousin (who thinks having short hair turns you into a boy and wearing your socks a certain way does the same) can have zero problem looking up male main characters (she's quite a big fan of one of the Star Wars cartoons as well) I'm pretty sure that person's kids are going to be fine looking up to female ones or even end up looking up to a side character instead.  That argument doesn't even seem to be trying with that kind of logic.

[Donk]

I'm pleased they're using one.


But one can. I can. I'm guessing you can.

The thing is that there aren't actually sides, there isn't a line drawn across the internet, there's just people arguing and some of them are stupid. It's the internet if you want to find the worst argument for something that's not hard, you can also find reasonable people discussing how things can be improved without losing site of enjoying what is for what it is, yet nobody seems to be interested in repeating the reasonable discussion, only the stupid ones.

That's exactly right.

Negativity attracts people like flies to ****. Reasonable discussions get buried under the garbage. So naturally, the first thing you see when you go on the internet and read people's opinions on something, you see the crap first.
I admit, there are times when I just can't help myself and have to read the crap, if only to be obnoxious and make some smartarse comment. I often enjoy it.
But sometimes, I just get sick of seeing the same phrases being parroted around "Gender this, SJW that." and so forth.

[AresKeith]

I'm more disappointed that its not gonna center around Wedge Antilles as I thought it was going to

 

It has Forest Whitaker though

[Biotic Apostate]

Lmao and don't forget the, "It's fine, just so long as it doesn't infringe on my preferences."

Basically everyone involved started circling the drain. It's almost mesmerising to watch.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm more disappointed that its not gonna center around Wedge Antilles as I thought it was going to

A Wedge Antilles film would be amazing. 

 

 

Spoiler

Season 2 finale of Star Wars Rebels used him perfectly imo

Spoiler

Agreed. I look forward to seeing more of him and Vader in the next season.

[Steelcan]

 

A Wedge Antilles film would be amazing. 

 

hence my disappointment with the given lead, it has nothing to do with who she is

[nightscrawl]

Spoiler

Disclaimer: I'm not bashing the game, and I've played it a few times. However, I do believe it is flawed. Particularly the story and how it was executed. I had a slight suspicion that the reason behind it could possibly be because of the fanbase and the constant complaining. "No playersexual LI's please, I want different characters with diff orientations because playersexual offends me." etc. So it seems like the devs (because one thing that stood out to me about the game was how well done the characters were, some of the best written characters I've seen anywhere) perhaps put more effort and resources into fleshing out the characters. I also think they went overboard with romance options, and there is nothing wrong with romance in itself -- but due to discarding playersexuality and/or trying to appeal to everybody's needs, much of the other aspects of the game suffered. On top of that, despite the efforts put into characters and romance options, people STILL complained. In fact, it's worse than before. Just look at the bashing Dorian receives because he's a "token stereotypical gay character" (not my opinion). And then there is Sera, the first lesbian character in the series. "Waaaah, she's a false representation of a lesbian. She makes us look immature and stupid, waaaaah."
I don't know about anybody else but if I was a dev, and looking at a majority of these complaints (that often mix in real life political/social issues, which is the crux of my problem here) I'd be very frustrated and would be inclined to tell all of these people to go **** themselves.

I agree with most of your points, but I do have to add this...

David Gaider always said, every time he decided to weigh in on the issue, that he "would prefer set sexualities." The choice for DA2 was based on resources, and fairness, and nothing more.
 
Do consider that two of the more popular (on the forums, anyway) romances, Cullen and Solas, are both gender and race gated, and were added only after DAI got extra development time.
 
Also, Allan Schumacher stated that, "If we did all bisexual romances, you'd have 4. Let it be stated in no uncertain terms."
 
DAI had considerably more resources -- money, time, manpower -- as well as actual characters to work with, which is why we got so many romances, and with set sexualities.
 
It is NOT Bioware's fault that people focus on stupid things and attribute motivations to them based on their own issues. People are always going to complain. I'm sure there are a lot of lesbians who enjoyed Sera's romance even though it was written by a straight man, and lots of gay men who enjoyed Dorian's romance. But for the most part, happy people don't comment on their happiness. It is the way of things that the unhappy people are often the most vocal, and so it seems as if there is mostly negativity surrounding whatever issue.


[edit]
I'll also say that I don't think the problems with the story aspects of the game's plot have anything to do with the various romance options. ALL three games have had issues, and all three games did their romances in a different way. The romances are what people choose to focus on.

It all comes down to choices Bioware decided to make: let's carry the main antagonist over from a DLC of the previous game, let's build up mage/templar issues over two games and a novel and resolve them in the first act, let's have Corypheus mostly be a background threat, let's have this many maps to explore (some with thin content), let's cut the arc in half and save some of it for the next game, and so on.

 

People act like the romance content is sucking the life out of these games, preventing them from living up to their full potential. I really do not believe that is so, and there is nothing to prove that Bioware wouldn't have made the exact same choices with regard to the plot or other elements had there been no romances in the games.

 

[edit2]

None of these remarks are really directed at you, Donk, but rather are a general commentary on what you wrote.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 10 avril 2016 - 08:17 .

[nightscrawl]

I don't see how that new sexuality thread is going to end up in a good place, particularly since the OP can sometimes be rather aggressive. I'm not going to even look at the thing.

[Biotic Apostate]

I don't see how that new sexuality thread is going to end up in a good place, particularly since the OP can sometimes be rather aggressive. I'm not going to even look at the thing.

For the same reason Sandal's thread is a nice and positive place, those two new threads will end badly. When you start from saying, what you don't want (even if it's in a nice way), it kind of sets the tone.

 

I can't speak about the OP objectively, since we argue a lot. 

[Lady Artifice]

I don't see how that new sexuality thread is going to end up in a good place, particularly since the OP can sometimes be rather aggressive. I'm not going to even look at the thing.

 

Well, that gave me a headache by the second page.

[daveliam]

Well, that gave me a headache by the second page.

Ugh.  That's all I can say.  Ugh. 

[HuldraDancer]

Even more family drama~ Father didn't go to jail but he is here currently nursing a hangover and called drunk off his a** yesterday, so going to have to try and nurse him through the hangover and deal with the withdrawals. I know I'm going to get the full bront of it too since that I'm the only one at the home the majority of the time and we need to keep a close eye on him right now.

 

It hasn't even really started yet and I'm already feeling drained by it. Probably just feeling really selfish on my part though.

[Hellion Rex]

Even more family drama~ Father didn't go to jail but he is here currently nursing a hangover and called drunk off his a** yesterday, so going to have to try and nurse him through the hangover and deal with the withdrawals. I know I'm going to get the full bront of it too since that I'm the only one at the home the majority of the time and we need to keep a close eye on him right now.

 

It hasn't even really started yet and I'm already feeling drained by it. Probably just feeling really selfish on my part though.

Sending positive thoughts your way.

*hugs*