1931 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

Random thing, Biotic... those Hawke gifs on your profile are hilarious. Is that first set, "We think you're a real straight fellow," "I've never been accused of THAT before," actually in the game? I've never played a full on purple Hawke, so I've never seen a lot of the more humorous/crazy lines. I do like to pick the gem/charming ones, but it never amounts to very much in terms of overall personality. I was afraid to pick a lot of the mask options after the "wobbly corpses" line regarding Ninette's death. XD

[vertigomez]

Ack, now I feel bad about contributing to that, erm, 'discussion' in the gay badass thread. But you know that feeling when someone is so wrong and you're like... not gonna say anything, not gonna say anything, not gonnayyyyyeep I'm gonna say ALL THE THINGS.

I'm sorry about your house, Gomez. I really hope it doesn't come to that.

Thank you, m'dear! You are an actual gift ffs.

(also Gomez, thanks for adding me )

*brofist*

Sidenote and my own personal vent for the day: if I get bombarded with one more ad for Star Wars on the da wiki I'm going to scream. STOP TOUCHING ME WITH YOUR SPACE COOTIES.

[Biotic Apostate]

Random thing, Biotic... those Hawke gifs on your profile are hilarious. Is that first set, "We think you're a real straight fellow," "I've never been accused of THAT before," actually in the game? I've never played a full on purple Hawke, so I've never seen a lot of the more humorous/crazy lines. I do like to pick the gem/charming ones, but it never amounts to very much in terms of overall personality. I was afraid to pick a lot of the mask options after the "wobbly corpses" line regarding Ninette's death. XD

Although it matches purple Hawke beautifully, this isn't actually from the game, but from a tumblr called incorrectdragonage. They take quotes, mostly from tv series, and adapt them for DA. The ones with Hawke are usually spot on. And aside from a couple of conversations, I always take purple options, especially the masks. It's brilliant, it's some of the funniest dialogue in the game, and Nick Boulton liked voicing those options the best, and it really really shows. Also, making jokes during inappropriate moments adds charm and personality to that Hawke.

 

Concerning Dorian, I agree there's no executive order from the "gay leadership" about how people should feel about the storyline, but following what's being discussed there now, I think that we don't need more stories like that in future games. Once was ok, but repeating that narrative again (especially with another gay Tevinter mage) would be overkill.

[Donk]

On the current topic; and my opinion might possibly not be popular, but I have to vent.

I really wish this "representation" stuff would eff off.

Yes, I do like and appreciate there being homosexual characters in videogames. After all, I am one myself.

However, my problem lies when I see or read somebody saying, "X is a false representation of a lesbian character."

For instance, I once clicked a link to a Tumblr post saying the exact same thing about Sera. The reasoning was simply because the writer of that post didn't like her character. That's what it boiled down to; didn't like her jokes, found her immature, etc.

Fine. It's her opinion, it's her right. But who is she to dictate who is a good "representation"?

I'll add in the disclaimer here that I understand how and why people don't like her. They're entitled to their opinion.

My point is, it shouldn't even be an issue of representation in the first place, at least, not in that particular viewpoint. And what I mean is, the insinuation that a lesbian or gay character has to act or be a certain way to appease to people who don't have exposure or are homophobic.

Its like, "Hey, Sera's making us lesbians look bad. Now we will never be accepted."

No, no, no. Just no.

Any kind of person can be gay. Whether it be a benevolent librarian who devotes weekends to charity work, or a nutjob serial killer and anything in between. Just like every straight person out there or anybody else with a sexuality.

Having said that, I do understand people's requests for different types of gay characters in games aside from the rogue type.

What I'm saying is, character and personality should have nothing to do with sexuality and vice versa.

And adding to the post I used as an example, what about all of the lesbians out there who were actually pleased with Sera? She didn't even take that into account and instead acted as some authority on who should be a good "representation".

[Natashina]

Welp, the younger dogs are home. Chrono Cross is on hold.

@Donk. The comment about Sera that sticks out in my mind was from a long time poster. She found out that Sera was written by a straight male. She wasn't happy, because "how could a straight man understand a lesbian." Lucas explained his point of view and while the poster relented, it still struck me as odd.

Confession time: While I may be the original OP of the Sera thread, I ended up not being a huge fan of her. However, while I have some reservations about the character herself, identity as a lesbian isn't one of them. In fact, I feel that Lucas really did his research. Sera doesn't come across as man hating, nor does she pass judgement upon what sexuality the PC swings. She does pass judgement for hooking up with Solas, but otherwise she doesn't care who you bang.

See, inclusion is important to me, as is representation. However, I have to ask myself whrere some people get off. "Oh, every straight white man is going to like X" or "This is a misrepresentation of X culture." Give me a break. Variety is the spice of life, and there isn't any reason why it shouldn't be reflected in a BioWare game. However, I hear comments like saying is Sera is a bad representation of lesbians and I have to roll my eyes. If nothing elese, BioWare tries very hard to do their research on various sexaualities than most of the general public does, much less AAA developers.

Sorry for any typos, but I'm pretty tired.

[vertigomez]

I think the idea behind LGBT representation should be that there's no solitary Queer Story™. So we can have a story like Dorian's, but we can also have Jim-Bob the gay farmer and Herakles the gay gladiator, etc.

I feel the same way about Sera. I adore her, but the fact that others don't does not mean she's a poor representation of lesbians or she paints gay women in a 'bad light', or whatever. She's bright and shining, crude and often careless with her words, insecure and one of the most devoted friends and lovers in the franchise (imho). And maybe in the next game we'll have a lesbian character who loves magic or hates troublemakers or... whatever else.

The end goal, I think, is variety, so that people can see themselves in these characters, and hopefully close-minded people will broaden their horizons and realize there's not "one way" to be gay.

[Biotic Apostate]

Any single character is bad according to someone on tumblr, so don't be surprised to see it there

 

I see representation more as depicting different types of people. I also dislike it when people say that 'character x is a bad representation of gay people,' because factually it's incorrect. People are different regardless of sexuality, skin color, etc., so there will always be someone who is represented with this kind of character.

 

So I hope that when people are asking for better representation, it's (in most cases) not saying that we need entirely different characters, but more variety for them. No one LGBT character is representative of an entire group. At least I hope that most people realize that 'representation' is not creating one gay character that appeases everyone or sways homophobic people to change their mind.

 

There are LGBT people who thought Dorian, Sera, Krem, and Bull were fantastic, and they are not wrong to think that. But there are people who didn't find, what they were looking for. That's why, as you said, we need a lesbian librarian, and a gay KISA, and a bi introvert, and so on. And evil LGBT characters too (but not like Witcher did it...).

 

For example, in my opinion, BW has great representation of women. Merrill, Isabela, Meredith, Giselle, Leliana, Cassandra, Josephine, Anora, Flemeth, and so on. So many different characters. With different motivations, personalities, skills, dreams. Some good, some bad, some morally dubious. And that's what probably most people want for LGBT characters too.

 

Edit:

'd

[BraveVesperia]

 

For instance, I once clicked a link to a Tumblr post saying the exact same thing about Sera. The reasoning was simply because the writer of that post didn't like her character. That's what it boiled down to; didn't like her jokes, found her immature, etc.

I've never understood the comments about how Sera is a poor example of a lesbian (and especially the ones claiming she's abusive). I think she's a fantastic character. I'm not really sure what the issue is either with her being written by a man. Most of the writers cover characters that don't match their sexuality/gender/race/age etc.

 

Tbh, I think people can get so fixated on the idea of representation that they forget what the point of it is. They behave as though the character should have no negative qualities at all, despite the fact that being well rounded is what makes a person and therefore a good character.

[wright1978]

 

 

I've never understood the comments about how Sera is a poor example of a lesbian (and especially the ones claiming she's abusive). I think she's a fantastic character. I'm not really sure what the issue is either with her being written by a man. Most of the writers cover characters that don't match their sexuality/gender/race/age etc.

 

Tbh, I think people can get so fixated on the idea of representation that they forget what the point of it is. They behave as though the character should have no negative qualities at all, despite the fact that being well rounded is what makes a person and therefore a good character.

 

 

I've always felt there's a  real danger of them trying and champion a cause(writing role model characters) rather than writing real flawed characters. While i personally wasn't fond of the views Sera espoused or her manner i was very appreciative of the fact that they were willing to write a LGBT character with those negative attributes.

[nightscrawl]

Although it matches purple Hawke beautifully, this isn't actually from the game, but from a tumblr called incorrectdragonage. They take quotes, mostly from tv series, and adapt them for DA. The ones with Hawke are usually spot on.

Hah wow, they really are. I especially like the "Go team!" one.
 

Concerning Dorian, I agree there's no executive order from the "gay leadership" about how people should feel about the storyline, but following what's being discussed there now, I think that we don't need more stories like that in future games. Once was ok, but repeating that narrative again (especially with another gay Tevinter mage) would be overkill.

I get that there is concern because of tropes and all that, but I really don't see why some players are so very worried that there will be another gay Tevinter mage with these issues. Perhaps it's a bit too optimistic on my part, but I can't believe Bioware would be so trite as all that. Also, I think having another character like that would diminish the impact of Dorian's personal story.
 
In fact, if we get a gay Tevinter at all, I don't expect them to be altus class. And in that case, it wouldn't really matter to Tevinter society at large other than to lower class people who try to emulate altus behavior, which I'm sure is a thing, just as it is in real life.

If anything, the primary contender for repeat trope would be another gay or bi rogue (personality and class).
 
 

I think the idea behind LGBT representation should be that there's no solitary Queer Story™. So we can have a story like Dorian's, but we can also have Jim-Bob the gay farmer and Herakles the gay gladiator, etc.

...

The end goal, I think, is variety, so that people can see themselves in these characters, and hopefully close-minded people will broaden their horizons and realize there's not "one way" to be gay.

Yepper, completely agree.

[Steelcan]

I imagine we won't have a gay Tevinter next time, but Maevaris who is trans.  Which is all well and good if I could stand the character

[AresKeith]

These "New protag or Inquisitor" threads are getting so annoying, I wish Bioware would just say it so the people threatening to stop playing and leave would do so

[nightscrawl]

These "New protag or Inquisitor" threads are getting so annoying, I wish Bioware would just say it so the people threatening to stop playing and leave would do so

 

I feel ya, but I really don't think that is going to happen anytime soon...

[Biotic Apostate]

Hah wow, they really are. I especially like the "Go team!" one.
 

I get that there is concern because of tropes and all that, but I really don't see why some players are so very worried that there will be another gay Tevinter mage with these issues. Perhaps it's a bit too optimistic on my part, but I can't believe Bioware would be so trite as all that. Also, I think having another character like that would diminish the impact of Dorian's personal story.
 
In fact, if we get a gay Tevinter at all, I don't expect them to be altus class. And in that case, it wouldn't really matter to Tevinter society at large other than to lower class people who try to emulate altus behavior, which I'm sure is a thing, just as it is in real life.

If anything, the primary contender for repeat trope would be another gay or bi rogue (personality and class).

Me too, I can practically hear how Boulton would have delivered it, it's so on point.

 

Well, judging by the gay/bi rogue, BW does like to repeat some tropes. I also don't think they would do something so similar so soon after Inquisition. But someone mentioned in the thread they would like to see that narrative again, and since something approaching homophobia can only be done in Tevinter, it would basically be a rehash of Dorian's story. So yeah, fingers crossed for a gay warrior from somewhere else than Tevinter.

 

These "New protag or Inquisitor" threads are getting so annoying, I wish Bioware would just say it so the people threatening to stop playing and leave would do so

I still haven't played Trespasser, but I know what happens with the IQ, and I'm not sure how they could possibly return. I thought the entire thing with the thing was supposed to be a clear indication that they would bring in a new protagonist.

[AresKeith]

So apparently the player is eavesdropping on a private matter when a Inquisitor and Cassandra have a romance scene  

[HuldraDancer]

Got a super idiotic vent but it's been sitting with me for a while now and I suppose deep down I am a truly petty person. I'm a kind of person whose into rps of fandoms, I find them fun and a pretty cool way to meet other people from the same fandoms and make new friends.

 

While I was looking for someone for a Mass Effect fandom rp I ran into someone that had a weird OC which is usually fine with me I'm not super picky or anything but when the character is so poorly lore breaking or over powered as all hell I tend to speak up, which imo this person's OC was. I won't get too into details but it was more or less that they should of just said that the character was a new alien species with how heavily 'modified' their human character was which included things like bone claws, poison retractable spines and a tail.

 

I mentioned it to this person and they got upset at me which I can get you do get attached to characters you make but they were being needlessly passive aggressive and hostile with it for a total of two suggestions I made. Eventually we agreed to try something else a fandom I haven't seen, I informed them of this and let them know i would be watching it so we could try that and then they go in great detail to spoil the ending for it, getting angry at me for being upset with that and not long after started making weird 'why am I always picked on?' threads in the site.

 

I probably took it way too personally but I truly hate how much of a doormat I let myself become rp wise to the point of even apologizing to that  person for getting mad at them for spoiling an entire fandom for me. Still haven't bothered to watch more of it thanks to them. Also find it really annoying how they jumped right away to attacking me for the suggestion of 'your character seems a little too alien to be a human why not just make them a new kind of alien'?

 

I apologize for my petty and minor though lengthy b*tch fest. Here's a present for you all for even having to scroll past this stupid stupid a** vent.

[nightscrawl]

I still haven't played Trespasser, but I know what happens with the IQ, and I'm not sure how they could possibly return. I thought the entire thing with the thing was supposed to be a clear indication that they would bring in a new protagonist.

 

A+ for spoiler avoidance, but I'll have to be a bit more explicit with my reply. xD

 

Spoiler

I've read several of these threads now and the physical arguments can be summarized thus.

1 Some of the concept arts for Iron Bull have him with one arm and various prosthesis are shown. I don't know if there have been any direct dev quotes discussing the matter, but from these people have assumed that Iron Bull was originally slated to have a single arm with various prosthesis for different functions; a shield, a blade, a hand-cannon (no joke), and so on.

 

2 If the Inquisitor accepts Sera's offer to join the Red Jennys, the epilogue slide shows them with a crossbow prosthetic.

3 There is this now-significant panel from one of the previous comics, written by David Gaider. Even if the general plot of a comic like this is not completely canonical because it depends on a particular world state, certain things in it are, such as Maevaris and facts about her, further things about Varric and Isabela, the Stenishok, and so on, which are borne out because they are referenced in DAI.

 

As for the Inquisitor's return in general, I will say that the devs have made some remarks indicating that they would not be opposed to the idea of a dual protagonist. And really, these kind of remarks are all we can hope for at this time. Anything else said, either for or against, citing dialogue from the game (different depending on choices!) or whatever else is subjective and is not worth repeating. (I apologize for not having a quote for this, as I do usually prefer to cite sources; I'll try to find one later.)

 

The above are the ONLY objective facts about this issue.

[nightscrawl]

So apparently the player is eavesdropping on a private matter when a Inquisitor and Cassandra have a romance scene

 
Is someone arguing this somewhere? This seems bizarre. Does this apply to all of the romance scenes, for everyone?

[AresKeith]

 
Is someone arguing this somewhere? This seems bizarre. Does this apply to all of the romance scenes, for everyone?

 

It's in the Nudity in ME:A thread

[nightscrawl]

^ Oh... so I looked over the point the person is making, and I can understand it to a degree. They are referring to an explicit sex scene, which rather makes sense, particularly in an RPG. If a full-on sex scene is shown, the player has no agency, they are forced to watch as their character does whatever, even if they don't feel that is accurate to their role-play.
 
This is the reason I'm happy that the sex references with Dorian are vague, particularly with the absurd focus on tops/bottoms that some people have . This leaves the player free to interpret scenes and lines in any way they wish and head-canon the sex however they want. If you reference a specific line for that romance that supposedly proves he is one way or another, I will argue against it.
 
And you know, how people approach sex is also a part of their personality and reflective of the relationship (if there is one). The only game scenario that I fully wrote out in my fanfic writing was a "fill in the blank" for the Inquisitor x Dorian sex scene. While writing the sex was fun, the more important parts for me were the thoughts and feelings behind the scene, particularly since the post-sex dialogue is rather intense and emotional.
 
So, because the player has no agency, I can see how someone might feel like watching a sex scene is voyeuristic. I prefer the DAI method. It's obvious they just had sex, I really don't think we need to see it and remind everyone of the supreme awkwardness of the DAO sex scenes -- we saw our Warden's O face! I also didn't mind DA2's method, but I think DAI was a good balance between the two.
 
 
That said... the very final shot of the Dorian post-sex scene is fully animated. Dorian and the Inquisitor go out of the camera frame and you hear some kissy sounds and then the scene ends.
 
What is going on is this (NSFW):

Spoiler

 

 
I like that, but I freely admit I am biased. Now, this particular camera angle, the specific bed model used (with helpful foot board), and the human Inquisitor, hides the fact that there is terrible clipping; the Inquisitor is half sunken into the bed and there are also some leg issues, and the Inquisitor's arms look weird. However, I do think that is pretty tastefully done and wouldn't mind more of such scenes.
 
Then again, this is also highly subjective. There are people who don't want to see any sexual content at all, regardless of hetero- or homosexual, and no mater how "tastefully" it is done. *Shrug* Nothing to be done about those folks.
 
 
[edit]
Sorry I got carried away there...

[vertigomez]

I cry into my Kool-Aid when fans take mages/templars and elves (and elf baiting?) way too srs. I know good fiction doesn't feel like fiction, but at the end of the day it's still fiction. I worry about folks who become so invested that they just cannot separate themselves from the Chantry or Elvhenan or... whatever.

I like dwarves and I feel like I talk about dwarves more than the average BSNer, but I don't make thirty thousand threads about how those dagburn dirty surfacers always leave the dwarva* to fend for themselves against the darkspawn. Or how unfair it is that noble hunters are a phenomenon. Or how I'm a noble dorf and I can't waaait to rid my perfect world of casteless scum. I have yet to make a thread about how dwarves are obviously the superior species because of their resistance to magic.

*omggg how many times have I seen elvhen or the Maker's chosen or the People or mundanes or magi or heathens or knife-ears or gyuhh so srs

Rant over. Sorry for being such a dickbiscuit. I just had to get that out.

These "New protag or Inquisitor" threads are getting so annoying, I wish Bioware would just say it so the people threatening to stop playing and leave would do so

God, yes. I don't care what side of the issue anyone's on. I'm so sick of seeing the same arguments again, and again, and again.

Got a super idiotic vent but it's been sitting with me for a while now and I suppose deep down I am a truly petty person. I'm a kind of person whose into rps of fandoms, I find them fun and a pretty cool way to meet other people from the same fandoms and make new friends.
 
While I was looking for someone for a Mass Effect fandom rp I ran into someone that had a weird OC which is usually fine with me I'm not super picky or anything but when the character is so poorly lore breaking or over powered as all hell I tend to speak up, which imo this person's OC was. I won't get too into details but it was more or less that they should of just said that the character was a new alien species with how heavily 'modified' their human character was which included things like bone claws, poison retractable spines and a tail.
 
I mentioned it to this person and they got upset at me which I can get you do get attached to characters you make but they were being needlessly passive aggressive and hostile with it for a total of two suggestions I made. Eventually we agreed to try something else a fandom I haven't seen, I informed them of this and let them know i would be watching it so we could try that and then they go in great detail to spoil the ending for it, getting angry at me for being upset with that and not long after started making weird 'why am I always picked on?' threads in the site.
 
I probably took it way too personally but I truly hate how much of a doormat I let myself become rp wise to the point of even apologizing to that  person for getting mad at them for spoiling an entire fandom for me. Still haven't bothered to watch more of it thanks to them. Also find it really annoying how they jumped right away to attacking me for the suggestion of 'your character seems a little too alien to be a human why not just make them a new kind of alien'?
 
I apologize for my petty and minor though lengthy b*tch fest. Here's a present for you all for even having to scroll past this stupid stupid a** vent.

*pats head* Some folks are just really twitchy about their OCs, especially if you imply that said character doesn't particularly fit that universe at all... I'm sorry you had such a crappy experience!

[nightscrawl]

While I was looking for someone for a Mass Effect fandom rp I ran into someone that had a weird OC which is usually fine with me I'm not super picky or anything but when the character is so poorly lore breaking or over powered as all hell I tend to speak up, which imo this person's OC was. I won't get too into details but it was more or less that they should of just said that the character was a new alien species with how heavily 'modified' their human character was which included things like bone claws, poison retractable spines and a tail.

 
Not following lore or canonical events is one reason I don't read much fanfiction. I would get too annoyed, or noticing the discrepancies would pull me out of the universe.

Ohemgee ladybugs on heart "leaves." That is SO adorable.

 

I cry into my Kool-Aid...

Is it red? "Red" is the best, and totally a real flavor.

[Donk]

I've never understood the comments about how Sera is a poor example of a lesbian (and especially the ones claiming she's abusive). I think she's a fantastic character. I'm not really sure what the issue is either with her being written by a man. Most of the writers cover characters that don't match their sexuality/gender/race/age etc.

Tbh, I think people can get so fixated on the idea of representation that they forget what the point of it is. They behave as though the character should have no negative qualities at all, despite the fact that being well rounded is what makes a person and therefore a good character.

Exactly!

It reminds me of a ridiculous argument I had with somebody regarding Krem.

They said they should be able to insult Krem and be "transphobic" to the point of having the option to punch him out (all because you have the option to punch Dorian and Solas, so why not Krem too?) and used the excuse of roleplaying, because you should be able to roleplay a dick Inquisitor.

Anyway, I argued back and said fine. If you can do that to npcs, they should be able to smack you right back.

To which this moron replied, "I don't think the transgender community would appreciate that. It's a bad representation."

Ugh. People.

[Panda]

Exactly!

It reminds me of a ridiculous argument I had with somebody regarding Krem.

They said they should be able to insult Krem and be "transphobic" to the point of having the option to punch him out (all because you have the option to punch Dorian and Solas, so why not Krem too?) and used the excuse of roleplaying, because you should be able to roleplay a dick Inquisitor.

Anyway, I argued back and said fine. If you can do that to npcs, they should be able to smack you right back.

To which this moron replied, "I don't think the transgender community would appreciate that. It's a bad representation."

Ugh. People.

 

Not about Krem particularly, but it would be refreshing if more characters punched our protagonist if they cross their line. Aveline did and it was pretty great scene, but I don't think there is others.

[Akrabra]

Not about Krem particularly, but it would be refreshing if more characters punched our protagonist if they cross their line. Aveline did and it was pretty great scene, but I don't think there is others.

Didn't know she could punch you out. Checked the clip on Youtube now, and while it was cool it was also lacking in the sound and visual department. I mean she hit you with her armour on, how did it not leave serious damage, details!