1933 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

^ I'm not sure if "tasteful" was the correct word for me to use there. I've never been able to accurately express exactly why I liked the reveal as it was done in simple terms. It was in the third comic of the series, after we had already known Mae and see her looking, acting, and being addressed as a woman. Then we get to the scene, and my brain goes, "Wait... what am I looking at? Oh... OH!"
 
Part of the initial shock came from the fact that, due to the circumstances of the comic itself, it fit in so perfectly, and was done so well, and nothing had to be said. Then the scene moves on and you're left with the knowledge that this is who Mae is.
 
I don't know... I still don't feel I'm expressing myself correctly. As Dagna says, "Words are mush."

 
But regarding Krem, before I watched all of the options, I used to take some of those posters at their word that Bull "lectured" them about it. Then I did watch all of the options and knew that was a mistake. I really don't understand where that view comes from as Bull's tone is really more along the lines of... impatience perhaps?
 
His actual words,

He's not a woman. Look, I've got horns. You can shoot fire out of your ass [mage PC]. We're probably not the best people to go around deciding what's normal. Krem's a good man. I don't give a nug's ass that it's a little harder for him to p*ss standing up.

really don't seem that bad at all.
 
To be honest, I think most of those folks use it as an excuse. Either that or they are so sensitive, or dislike their PC being questioned in any way, that they take any such remarks as a slight.

[Sifr]

 
I take your point, but not as it applies to Mae specifically. She was introduced in the comics first and revealed as trans in what I felt to be a very tasteful way (that is, ignoring the trauma of the scene) and no mention of it was specifically made; we only see part of her exposed body, and that's all. That physical reveal, along with the gender specific references and pronouns, make it very clear, and it was always a part of her character as originally conceived. So it's not like Bioware, or David Gaider specifically, came out after the fact and revealed that she was trans, like J.K. Jowling revealing that Dumbledore was gay.

 

I'd actually forgotten that Mae's status as trans was revealed in the comic. I probably failed to notice the physical reveal and pick up on oblique dialogue that she didn't want Varric "seeing her like that" on the first readthrough, chalking that line up to her referring to being roughed up in the dungeons.

 

I went back and reread that part (without it flying over my head this time) and agree, it was handled with a lot of sensitivity. Varric's own narration refusing to comment on it because "she's family" and making it clear he's livid at Titus for doing that to her was touching.

[nightscrawl]

^ Onto somewhat more lighter fare... I highly doubt they would do this, but (even though it would lock me out of a romance, since I mainly play humans) it would be rather amusing if a Mae romance were limited to dwarven men. I thought the Fade scene with Thorold was quite bittersweet and it was obvious that she still misses him a great deal. Poor Mae .

[daveliam]

^ Onto somewhat more lighter fare... I highly doubt they would do this, but (even though it would lock me out of a romance, since I mainly play humans) it would be rather amusing if a Mae romance were limited to dwarven men. I thought the Fade scene with Thorold was quite bittersweet and it was obvious that she still misses him a great deal. Poor Mae .

 

While I think Mae's a great character, I kind of don't want her to be a romance.  I don't think that the audience is ready for that.  I'm already cringing at the idea of having to explain (over and over and over again) that she wouldn't be considered a "gay male" romance since she's a woman.  Plus, I really don't want every LGBT companion/advisor to be romanceable.  And Mae, who could easily come down with a terminal case of 'Carth Syndrome', would be my choice to exclude.  There's nothing wrong with someone who has lost his/her spouse not finding another love.  I'd actually kind of like it if there was a flirt option with Mae and that's how she turned you down -- "I'm not over him and I don't think I ever will be.  I lost the love of my life."  It's a romantic notion.

 

But, if she were to be a romance, I'd love it if she were limited to dwarf males.  That would be awesome.

[Hellion Rex]

^ Onto somewhat more lighter fare... I highly doubt they would do this, but (even though it would lock me out of a romance, since I mainly play humans) it would be rather amusing if a Mae romance were limited to dwarven men. I thought the Fade scene with Thorold was quite bittersweet and it was obvious that she still misses him a great deal. Poor Mae .

I don't want her to be a romance, to be honest. I feel like she still misses her husband a lot, and I think it'd do a disservice to the character.

[Dani100]

The mods don't seem to know what's offensive to Trans people, other than gender pronouns. Sometimes it feels like they wait for me to blow up and then they delete stuff. It may be my imagination but it feels that way. I stopped reading the garbage, it just got too unhealthy and hurtful. Plus I don't like that they treat me differently, I've never gotten so much as a warning, never been banned, no matter what I say. They may feel they are doing me a favor but it doesn't feel good to be treated differently. I tried so hard to get banned once, a certain very well known poster on the boards got me so upset that I just wanted out. If what I said to him isn't worth a ban I don't know what is.

I'm really sick of people that pretend they know more about or know what's best for trans people. They act like they know more than I do, my doctor's and therapists that helped me though my journey. Before I did what I did, I researched as much as I could find, made sure that it was right for me, I've never doubted my decision in the least bit but of course some people still believe we just do things on a whim. Yup, one morning I just woke up and said, you know I think I'll become a woman, presto chango surgery is done, hormones are taken and boobs appear overnight. It took me five years to get through everything needed before bottom surgery, years of a painful hell called electrolysis (more painful than anything I've ever been through, enough to scare anyone away from doing something rash), therapy just to have a chance at hormones and surgery, had to live full time as female for a year before surgery and five surgeries. Of course it really has nothing to do with how much they know, it's all about spreading their point of view.

I must admit that Mae's reveal was painful for me, though I don't feel it was wrong, it was a powerful moment for me, considering some of the things that happen to people like myself in real life. I've been lucky, I've never experienced discrimination for who I am, at least not for being trans, other than these forums. I've been able to blend in and have never experienced the sting of being clocked. I was able to afford some of the things that make life easier, masculine features were diminished or erased all together, whether it's a good thing or not, I can't say but it is easier. The night I got upset and posted in that one thread, I went and looked at my tattoo artist's Facebook page and she had a post that brought my spirits up some. The state I live in is thinking of a bathroom bill and she made a long passionate plea on behalf of trans people. I need to tell her what it meant to me next time I go in. She's a CIS woman by the way but has experienced some of the things many of us go through, due to her looks and the clothes she wears. Oh one more thing, she's absolutely hot. Really short black hair, incredible blue eyes and the most awesome shoulder line, I've ever seen on a woman. Damn, I'm going to end up with tattoo's covering my whole body. Lol

I'm not sure I could take another Trans character in a game, if Krem got as much crap as he did being a small character, I'd hate to see what Mae would get, in truth it's fear that makes me feel this way. It would be extremely difficult to have Mae as a male only romance as it's just too hard for me to play male. I'm sure they never thought about the consequences of making her straight and what it would mean to Trans women, if she was ever a romance. Telling a trans woman she must play a gender that made her uncomfortable her whole life to romance a character, would be quite the jolt. In truth I'd love a character like Lisme from Last Flight,

Spoiler

Lisme was a mage and this character continually changed gender presentation, you never knew the character's birth gender. Apparently Lisme was treated poorly in the circle and expresses herself/himself however he/she wants. It was kind of cool that in the book the character's gender pronouns were dependent on presentation.

[Grieving Natashina]

Well, crap.

Sasquatch just got home from the vet with Zoi. They'll be calling here shortly to give us some preliminary test results. However, they found multiple tumors along all of her lymph nodes. We're just waiting to hear that she has cancer. Either way, the lymph nodes on her neck are getting to the point where it is interfering with her eating and breathing.

The worst part is that...we know we'll have to put her down soon. She still has an appetite, but can't really eat. Her breathing is shallow and she's lost a lot of her hearing. We just have to determine when the best time is. That's not a fun conversation and Sasquatch is taking the night off.

I'm a softie, but not a dummy. I know that this is the price that pet owners pay. That most pets will be outlived by their owners. It just hurts so much.

I won't be around the BSN much for the next month or so, save the RDF. I want to spend as much time with my baby dog as I can while I can.

[Dani100]

Sorry to hear about your baby dog, I know how hard it is.

[Sifr]

I don't want her to be a romance, to be honest. I feel like she still misses her husband a lot, and I think it'd do a disservice to the character.

 

Yeah, I think that she does still miss Thorold based on how much she tells Varric that even knowing it's a spirit pretending to be him in the Fade, doesn't mean she isn't glad to see him once more.

 

Though we do see Mae and Alistair engage in a bit of playful flirting when they first are introduced, with her musing that he has hands like a stonemason and she'd love to see what could do with them.

 

If she was a romance, I don't think she'd be gated to just Dwarves... although it's nice to see a character in Dragon Age who appreciates dwarf romances as much as some of us in the fandom do. This is another reason I like Mae, she gets it.

[Panda]

Sorry to hear that Natashina. That's kinda worst news pet owner can get : ( I lost my cat just recently and it does really suck. Hopefully you can get as much peaceful time with your dog as possible.

[Steelcan]

All I will say further on the topic of moderation is that Allan gave me several months of a quasi-ban (no posting but I could PM and read forums) because he felt I didn't understand the concept of privilege as well as I should.

As for a trans romance, I have no interest in ever using one, but I'm meh on whether they should be implemented or not. With that said I'm not a fan of Mae in general, and I can see her becoming a writer's pet very easily.

[Grieving Natashina]

Just got the call back from the vet. They haven't gotten all of the test results, but they did say that there is a 94% chance that my bassett has lymphoma. I'm going to do the irresponsible thing of getting a little drunk and going to bed. I've spent months preparing for this day, so I'm not trying to escape. I just want sleep.

[Biotic Apostate]

I'm so sorry Natashina. Our Mastiff died a few years ago, and it was extremely hard on everyone Take care of yourself <hugs>

[nightscrawl]

I don't want her to be a romance, to be honest. I feel like she still misses her husband a lot, and I think it'd do a disservice to the character.

 

I don't think it's quite fair to phrase it this way when we know hardly anything about it. We also don't know how much in the future the next game will take place.

 

And you know, just because someone misses their dead spouse doesn't mean they can't also find love again. I think it could be done well if she brings it up. When considering this issue, I always think of Joe Biden and his loss. The man still talks about his dead wife and child with emotion, with Jill standing right behind in full support. I don't think it's bad, or a disservice, to say, "I will always love so-and-so, but I can love you too." People can have room in their heart for more than one person.

 

That said, I do share everyone's concerns and reservations about how some people will react. But when would be a good time for that? I'd argue that Mae, already known to be trans, and also liked by a good chunk of people, is the right character for such an opportunity.

 

All of those issues aside, one of the reasons I want her as a romance is because it would be nice to have a mature, stable, female mage in this category, which we haven't had before. Considering both Morrigan and Merrill, their youth, inexperience (with relationships), and other issues, it would be a refreshing change.

 

 

[edit]

To the above I'll also add that she will be independent, and like Dorian, fighting for change in her country, satisfying what is, to me, a good character aspect for any romance.

 

I'm not really strenuously advocating for a Mae romance, even though I do want one. I feel I'm able to see the merits of that path and try to focus on the positive aspects of it. If she's not one, or indeed not in the game at all (which I find unlikely), I'll be somewhat disappointed, but not at all surprised.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 20 avril 2016 - 03:11 .

[Grieving Natashina]

@Dani

Don't take this the wrong way, but for a woman, you've got bigger balls than many of the guys on the BSN. You amaze me hun.

Also, would you be willing to send me a friend invite? I'd love to chat with ya one on one sometime.

[Akrabra]

That said, I do share everyone's concerns and reservations about how some people will react. But when would be a good time for that? I'd argue that Mae, already known to be trans, and also liked by a good chunk of people, is the right character for such an opportunity.

Exactly. I feel like they should just do it. It might ****** some people off, but who cares? or well they do, but most of us don't. The character is already in the setting, make use of her. I hope it happens, i find her quite Interesting. 

[nightscrawl]

Exactly. I feel like they should just do it. It might ****** some people off, but who cares? or well they do, but most of us don't. The character is already in the setting, make use of her. I hope it happens, i find her quite Interesting. 

 

I was going to add some words to this effect, like, "F those people," but I don't really feel like I have a right to say so. Even though I do find such posts upsetting, distressing, and infuriating, none of the anti-LGBT posts are personally attacking me, or my very existence, because I'm not a part of that group. However much sympathy I have, I can't really know what it feels like.

 

I do agree with that sentiment, though, which is bolstered by the fact that Bioware, especially the DA team, has shown that they really don't care about those bigots or their opinions. This is from multiple devs, not simply David Gaider, who all seem to share that viewpoint.

[SardaukarElite]

In general, the world won't be ready for anything until something changes people's minds. That said it's up to everyone to decide which flags they want to fight under. BioWare seems to be interested in a variety of romances but it's not an obligation.

 

In regards to Mae specifically, I don't like the idea that romance is the highest form of legitimacy one can have in a BioWare game. I also think it would be nice if the characters from outside the games didn't always need to appear in the games, or at least be companions. 

[nightscrawl]

In regards to Mae specifically, I don't like the idea that romance is the highest form of legitimacy one can have in a BioWare game.

Well it certainly wasn't my intention to imply that... =/

 

I also think it would be nice if the characters from outside the games didn't always need to appear in the games, or at least be companions.

I take your point here. I actually think it would be more believable for her, given her status as a magister, to be a non-follower NPC. The same is true for Dorian.

People want these characters from the ancillary materials because we want to see more of them, learn more about them, see them doing things beyond the scope of their original presentation. This is the same thought behind wanting any minor character to return, regardless of their original appearance. People began clamoring for Abelas immediately.

 

With Mae specifically, her role in the comics was pretty minor. You have no idea how happy I was to see her appear in that war table mission and to discover that she's a friend to Dorian (my favorite DA character EVER), and now also know that the two of them are working together to reform Tevinter. I thought it was fantastic, and I would love to see the two of them interact particularly since she seems to have a sort of big sister vibe regarding him, which is nice. (Not having at least one banter between Varric and Dorian about Mae was a missed opportunity, IMO.)

 

Sadly, there will always be a part of my mind that will feel it a tad bit less since David Gaider will not be writing either of them (this is especially true for Dorian), but I've tried to accept that and move on.

 

 

At any rate, I've talked about this subject long enough. Time to move on.

[SardaukarElite]

Well it certainly wasn't my intention to imply that... =/

 

I worded that more aggressively than I needed to. Sorry. 

 

 

People want these characters from the ancillary materials because we want to see more of them, learn more about them, see them doing things beyond the scope of their original presentation. This is the same thought behind wanting any minor character to return, regardless of their original appearance. People began clamoring for Abelas immediately.

(...)

 

I understand, and I wouldn't exactly object strongly to Ariane coming back. I guess my point was more about how BioWare uses the content than what people want.

 

My impression as someone who hasn't read a lot of the material is that BioWare doesn't build off them well in their games. I feel like I've missed watching a prequel rather than my character is meeting a new person for the first time. I still understand what's going on, but feel the storytelling suffers for it. 

 

I can see Mae working though - from the little I know. 

[nightscrawl]

If anyone was waiting for all of Magekiller to be released before jumping in, you can go ahead; the final issue released today. Here is the BSN thread for the whole thing, complete with links and discussion. The thread is quite spoilery, so be aware of that if you decide to read through it.

 

I don't regret the purchase, as I intend to purchase all DA ancillary materials simply to keep up with the DA universe. That said, I found it... underwhelming.

 

Spoiler

The highlight for me was in seeing Archon Radonis in issue 2, and learning a small tidbit about Tevinter from Dorian's cameo. That's pretty much it.

[nightscrawl]

My impression as someone who hasn't read a lot of the material is that BioWare doesn't build off them well in their games. I feel like I've missed watching a prequel rather than my character is meeting a new person for the first time. I still understand what's going on, but feel the storytelling suffers for it.

I think it just depends on what people are expecting and I seem to have a different viewpoint than many others who take in the ancillary materials.

In terms of role play, I try to (though sometimes fail, I admit) only consider the knowledge that my character would have reasonable access to when making such decisions. Sometimes this even comes down to dialogue choices and paths taken in the game itself. Many Loghain fans point to the content revealed during the Return to Ostagar DLC, but if you do not take him along, and also hear his banter with Wynne, you miss much of the subtext. But that path is only available after you've already gone through the Landsmeet and made your choice, and with the circumstance that you saved the Return to Ostagar DLC -- which seems odd, given the urgency of the presentation to get to Redcliffe and so on. There are similar things with the Orzammar choice, only finding out about certain things if you take a particular path.

 

The Stolen Throne does not influence my Warden's view of Loghain, and The Calling does not change her view of Duncan. Cole is a different individual in DAI than he was in Asunder and explains exactly why that is in the game itself. Nothing presented in The Masked Empire informs my Inquisitor's decision during WEWH, and neither do I feel that is necessary; like the Orzammar choice, sometimes one must choose the least worst choice based on the limited information you have.

 

I think the ancillary materials are helpful in expanding on the world and in telling the kind of story that is not necessarily possible within the RPG format.

[Akrabra]

I was going to add some words to this effect, like, "F those people," but I don't really feel like I have a right to say so. Even though I do find such posts upsetting, distressing, and infuriating, none of the anti-LGBT posts are personally attacking me, or my very existence, because I'm not a part of that group. However much sympathy I have, I can't really know what it feels like.

 

I do agree with that sentiment, though, which is bolstered by the fact that Bioware, especially the DA team, has shown that they really don't care about those bigots or their opinions. This is from multiple devs, not simply David Gaider, who all seem to share that viewpoint.

I do agree, but seeing as romance is optional content and the character already exists i think it would be nice to explore it. Also i do want to see more representation in games, and people will only change and be more accepting if its introduced to them. There is still a balance to figure out though, and i think Bioware can be the ones to do it. We'll see. 

[HuldraDancer]

Minor one but getting a little paranoid about my own writing now after getting rejected for an rp for sub par grammar.  Wasn't like the person was rude about it, but it was a pretty flat out and straight forward rejection and I get paranoid about things like that. At least for a little bit^^;

[nightscrawl]

^ Wow, I didn't realize some RPs were strict about that sort of thing. I dunno... it just seems like excluding someone from fun, and rather elitist as well. The only time where I can sort of maybe see that happening would be for someone for whom English is not a native language. I give non-native speakers SO much credit (I just have English), but it can sometimes be tedious to read through their posts and decipher the meaning, and then you also have to wonder how complete their understanding is of your own words as well.

 

Did you have to provide samples of your past writing, or was this based on other, non-RP posts you've written? Did they at least give examples so you can try to improve, or anything along those lines?