1933 réponses à ce sujet

[Duelist]

I'm on Xbox One. Oh well.

My mains for each class are:
Offense: Pharah and Tracer
Defense: Mei and Bastion
Tank: D.Va and Reinhardt
Support: Mercy and Symmetra
My overall mains are D.Va and Mercy

Hmm, I haven't still bought Overwatch myself, bit too expensive for me at the moment for amount of content it gives. Probably going to get it for PC when price drops a bit.

During open beta my mains were Symmetra and Lucio, Symmetra for defense and Lucio for attack. I have problem with Symmetra in the game though and it's her class, support. She's only support that can't heal and I can't quite understand why she's listed as support. To me she is much more defensive hero with her turrents. When I'm playing with her I'm trying to make traps and kill people, not follow other around and support them, I just feel like she's assigned in wrong role ^^;

Also, Overwatch, yay!!! Best game purchase in a while.

That's it, I'm starting an Overwatch thread.

[nightscrawl]

Considering game quality, here is a minor vent. It really irks me when Bioware throws in low res (512px and lower) images along with the high res (1024px and higher) ones.

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition is a gorgeous game and most of these problems aren't visible in a first pass, or at a glance, but the more you play, the harder you look, the more these kind of issues pop up. One of the more glaring low res images is the chair that Josephine sits in in Skyhold; the terrible chair pulls me right out of those scenes during cinematics that feature them. And no, this isn't something that I only notice because I play on a 42" hdtv; I play on a dinky 19" LCD  monitor. The reason it irks me is that it doesn't have to be that way, and that (it comes across as) no one during testing watched the cinematic and said, "You know, this chair really doesn't look too hot. Can we redo this texture?"

 

They are also still using texture resources from DAO and DA2 -- some shield and weapon textures -- which are going to be lower res. I get the reason for this, to save resources, but it makes these items stick out and casts a pall over the mostly-superb graphics of the game.

 

It's one of those minor things that's basically "can't unsee" for me.

[lynroy]

This about sums it up for me right now:

[vertigomez]

*glances at the last page of that elf thread*




*flees*

[HuldraDancer]

Everyone such in a hurry to get off work that they don't even put their stuff in the right place and I have to do it for them. I mean I get it this job is kind of sucky, not hard but sucky and everyone would like to go home asap, but take an extra minute to put your things in the right place before leaving. 

[Biotic Apostate]

BSN at least has mods and rules- even if not always that good, still better than anything. Tumblr lacks those. You have to be very careful what you say and post around there especially if you don't have thick skin, who knows what can start another "calling out/education campaign". It has good sides, but community is most toxic I have seen.

I've seen some tumblr takedowns, but it's rare. Still, for all the mods, this page knows nothing about dealing with hate speech, or just general crappiness directed at groups. Which there is loads of here. At least tumblr is decentralised. You follow different people, go to a different topic, and you can get away from it. Here, when both the ME3 and DA2 threads were just awful, there was no reason for me to stick around. So I got my discussion and art on those games on tumblr.

[Panda]

I've seen some tumblr takedowns, but it's rare. Still, for all the mods, this page knows nothing about dealing with hate speech, or just general crappiness directed at groups. Which there is loads of here. At least tumblr is decentralised. You follow different people, go to a different topic, and you can get away from it. Here, when both the ME3 and DA2 threads were just awful, there was no reason for me to stick around. So I got my discussion and art on those games on tumblr.

 

Eh I see it differently, maybe I have different experiences or sth. I just find tumblr extremely suffocating. You can't take apart in any discussion without getting someone accusing you of being horrible person, telling you to kill yourself or getting angry for any reason. Even if you can go to different topic, people can still message to you and reblog your posts so.. you have to be careful on what you are going to tag. And no matter what tag you go.. the community is still pretty much same.

[nightscrawl]

I've seen some tumblr takedowns, but it's rare. Still, for all the mods, this page knows nothing about dealing with hate speech, or just general crappiness directed at groups. Which there is loads of here. At least tumblr is decentralised. You follow different people, go to a different topic, and you can get away from it. Here, when both the ME3 and DA2 threads were just awful, there was no reason for me to stick around. So I got my discussion and art on those games on tumblr.

 

While it shouldn't have to be this way, Tumblr is easier to manage if you use a browser extension like Tumblr Savior with its black and white lists. Don't want to see posts on your dash about a certain character, or a certain 'ship? Just blacklist it. Of course, this doesn't save you if you go to it directly, but it is extremely helpful.

 

 

Eh I see it differently, maybe I have different experiences or sth. I just find tumblr extremely suffocating. You can't take apart in any discussion without getting someone accusing you of being horrible person, telling you to kill yourself or getting angry for any reason. Even if you can go to different topic, people can still message to you and reblog your posts so.. you have to be careful on what you are going to tag. And no matter what tag you go.. the community is still pretty much same.

 

I've found that it's really helpful to limit Tumblr as much as possible, only follow certain drama-free blogs, and so on. I eventually stopped following Dragon Age Confessions after a while because so many of the posts were ranty, whiny, entitled, and so on. I also don't search out content.

 

I must admit that I don't get the tag thing and why people feel it necessary to be cute with their tags, writing whole paragraphs and crap; that's not what tags are for. I mean, half the reason I follow one blog is because of the author's amusing tags, but I don't do that for my own. All of my tags are for my own reference in organizing my posts.

 

 

[edit]

It also helps to not get involved at all in certain debates, or reply to certain types of posts. I know it's hard, believe me, especially when a person is being very judgemental about whatever thing, but you just have to consider that it is pointless to add to the discussion in most cases.

 

On numerous occasions, both on Tumblr and on the BSN, I've found it cathartic to write out a response and then read it over. After doing that, I do feel a bit better and delete it before hitting "post."

Modifié par nightscrawl, 07 juin 2016 - 02:40 .

[lynroy]

Eh I see it differently, maybe I have different experiences or sth. I just find tumblr extremely suffocating. You can't take apart in any discussion without getting someone accusing you of being horrible person, telling you to kill yourself or getting angry for any reason. Even if you can go to different topic, people can still message to you and reblog your posts so.. you have to be careful on what you are going to tag. And no matter what tag you go.. the community is still pretty much same.

Wait, didn't you just describe BSN?

[Panda]

Wait, didn't you just describe BSN?

 

BSN surely can get pretty angry and even toxic at times, but I haven't seen any death threats around this far and personally I find it nicer as community overall. In tumblr attacks tend to get more personal. And then people on BSN on my experience tend to be more mature and realistic overall. Or maybe my views just align more with BSN ^^;

[lynroy]

I must really hang out in the dark alleys of the BSN then.

[Biotic Apostate]

Eh I see it differently, maybe I have different experiences or sth. I just find tumblr extremely suffocating. You can't take apart in any discussion without getting someone accusing you of being horrible person, telling you to kill yourself or getting angry for any reason. Even if you can go to different topic, people can still message to you and reblog your posts so.. you have to be careful on what you are going to tag. And no matter what tag you go.. the community is still pretty much same.

I think we discussed it in venting 1.0, some people have received death threats here. Like nightscrawl said, between blocking, blacklisting, and sticking to drama-free blogs, I never really had issues. Then again, I treat tumblr more as a content sharing platform, than a social one. From a "lurking" point of view, the completely crushing homophobia of BSN circa 2011/2012 was more biting than tumblr's quest of "everyone is problematic scum." But, of course, YMMV.

 

There are some wonderful people here, but if not for this group, I would have stopped coming here (again). The sheer amount of negativity is just exhausting.

[Panda]

I think we discussed it in venting 1.0, some people have received death threats here. Like nightscrawl said, between blocking, blacklisting, and sticking to drama-free blogs, I never really had issues. Then again, I treat tumblr more as a content sharing platform, than a social one. From a "lurking" point of view, the completely crushing homophobia of BSN circa 2011/2012 was more biting than tumblr's quest of "everyone is problematic scum." But, of course, YMMV.

 

There are some wonderful people here, but if not for this group, I would have stopped coming here (again). The sheer amount of negativity is just exhausting.

 

Maybe it's difference in experience then. I haven't had issues like that with BSN that much, but reason why I joined was cause I was really happy about Cullen being in DAI and tumblr was just full of hate towards him and people who liked him. So I began to look for place where I could speak about character I loved and found that BSN was thing and even had quite long Cullen thread. So me getting fed up with tumblr is kinda reason why I'm here in first place ^^. But in general I just feel more free in posting my opinions here than I do in tumblr which is why I find this community overall better for me.

[Biotic Apostate]

Maybe it's difference in experience then. I haven't had issues like that with BSN that much, but reason why I joined was cause I was really happy about Cullen being in DAI and tumblr was just full of hate towards him and people who liked him. So I began to look for place where I could speak about character I loved and found that BSN was thing and even had quite long Cullen thread. So me getting fed up with tumblr is kinda reason why I'm here in first place ^^. But in general I just feel more free in posting my opinions here than I do in tumblr which is why I find this community overall better for me.

Yeah character hate is sadly a common thing for tumblr (I still don't get the hate for male Hawke), but I got the same here, as an Anders (or Isabela, or Kaidan) fan. I think with any website the point of entry really matters. I first found tumblr, while searching for some DA fan stuff and relied on individual blogs, instead of tag searches, for a long time. Hell, on reddit I found a lot of great tech related boards, so my experience with it greatly differs from that of someone, who found it through those creepy upskirt photos or racism boards.

[vertigomez]

I find that it's a good idea to now and again take a break from any place that makes you feel crappy. I haven't messed around with tumblr in months, because despite loving some things - art, graphics, meta, and general fandom geekery - there's so much character hate and negativity there that I just have to step back sometimes because YOLO I'm gonna die someday and I don't wanna waste my time swallowing poison when it's fandom and theoretically you're supposed to, y'know... enjoy yourself. I want to waste my time reading things that are engaging or thoughtful or just make me laugh.

BSN gets that way too, which is why I periodically vanish for weeks at a time, but generally speaking I have such a good time interacting with people here that it outweighs the crap I'd rather not dwell on.

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm so sick and tired of that Xbox poll from almost 4 years ago being used to back up ignorant points. So, if someone was playing, and if someone had an Xbox account, and if they knew about the poll/got to it in time, then they'd be able to participate. Putting aside the fact that 18% isn't anything to sneeze at, that stupid poll doesn't apply to me or to anyone else that didn't participate in that one poll.

I've met several people on the forums that have been playing the ME series for the first time over the last couple of years. There was no big poll to ask them what they played. Shoot, I watched a poster mention that a recent poll put the amount of FemSheps at 40% (which sounds about right) and it got refuted because "it didn't come directly from BioWare." Bullshit. I'd rather consider that than a poll done years ago.

They need to face the fact that there are more women identifying as video gamers or as part of the gaming community. This should be celebrated and encouraged. The more the merrier. It seems like some posters are clinging so tightly to what was accepted as true that they are acting...I don't know...far too angry and personallly hurt on this subject. Then again, I don't understand when a passion for a game turns incredibly toxic in the real world.

This was brought up in the "Female PC on the cover" thread. I'm all about having more women representation in cover and digital art, but I read crap like that poll still being treated like an immutable fact and I'd rather just see the armor or logo or something.

[Steelcan]

I don't think that poll should be dismissed out of hand though, its the only statistics that are available afaik.

 

However, what BioWare should have done was make such a poll only for people who have the Long Service achievement (or something similar) so we can see what the people who have stuck through the series do.

[Grieving Natashina]

I don't argue, but I don't like someone treating that poll like it's the only truth that shall ever be. It's also a poor excuse to use to whine about cover art. I don't like the "scruffy white buff guy" look myself, but as long as there is some variety, I'm good. Personally, I think Drake from Uncharted has got a great look. Sure, he's white with dark hair, late 20s, blah blah blah, but he looks like a real person.

I did read some more information and it's from a site I actually trust more than most. This is a more recent poll that someone posted. It's from PC gamer from last August. It has a bunch of stat breakdowns and it lists FemShep with 40% players. That sounds about right to me. The author also mentioned that the majority of the poll takers were men 18-34 years old and done largely on twitter. They are also careful to point out that this does not represent the entire fanbase:

http://www.pcgamer.c...s-effect-games/

I'd rather look at that than the Xbox poll, since this is a lot more recent. That being said, I agree with you.

There should have been some sort of achievement or something like that that could continue to track who playing what. It would be a lot better than just using 3rd party polls. I know they can do stuff like that; they did it after DA:I when they stated that they noted that 30% of all Inquisitors were female.

Well, E3 is only 5 days away and most of this won't matter anyhow. It'll be a chance for a fresh start, as far as polls and the like are concerned. Sometimes though, reading that poll butters my biscuits.

[Jorji Costava]

Like you said, even 18% isn't a small number; it's comparable to the completion percentages of many games (for instance, only 6.4% of players finished Pillars of Eternity, while 25% finished Deus Ex: Human Revolution). Of course, nobody's proposing scrapping endings. And there's also mounting evidence that in general, diversity in media pays, financially speaking.

[Biotic Apostate]

Eh that cover discussion is frustrating. Numbers aside, the marketing teams really don't know, what people want. There's a lengthy post-mortem on Lionhead, and one of the points was their fight with MS marketing over the cover of Fable 2. Here's the quote

 

They were going, you can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman. And you want a black woman. And I was like, yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want. No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's ****** it. Stop the arguing. I was like, **** you! That was a huge fight.

 

They said, what's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, I don't know. They went, Princess and the Frog. Work it out. I was like **** you, man. I hated it.

 

I was screaming at them in conference calls. I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!

 

Remember Me bounced between publishers, because everyone agreed players don't want female protagonists (and are mostly male). Life is Strange was a great success, and that also almost didn't happen. Battlefield 1 was turned down by EA a few times, because 'kids don't know anything about that war and it will be boring.' And it ended up being the most liked game trailer ever on yt. They even have a black man on the cover, and pretty much no one will care.

 

And as said, if we went only by the numbers, the game would never end, have only 3 classes instead of 6, Wrex, Ashley, Kaidan, and Tali would not exist (at least in 3), the option to sabotage the genophage would be scrapped, and so on.

 

Just allow devs to put women on the covers. There's absolutely no evidence that will negatively affect the sales.

[Hellion Rex]

 

 

Just allow devs to put women on the covers. There's absolutely no evidence that will negatively affect the sales.

 

Amen. This game alone proves that point.

[nightscrawl]

I'm so sick and tired of that Xbox poll from almost 4 years ago being used to back up ignorant points. So, if someone was playing, and if someone had an Xbox account, and if they knew about the poll/got to it in time, then they'd be able to participate. Putting aside the fact that 18% isn't anything to sneeze at, that stupid poll doesn't apply to me or to anyone else that didn't participate in that one poll.

I've met several people on the forums that have been playing the ME series for the first time over the last couple of years. There was no big poll to ask them what they played. Shoot, I watched a poster mention that a recent poll put the amount of FemSheps at 40% (which sounds about right) and it got refuted because "it didn't come directly from BioWare." Bullshit. I'd rather consider that than a poll done years ago.

Despite the age of the poll(s), in your very first paragraph you mention why these sorts of polls are unreliable. As entertaining as they can be, it is akin to using BSN poll results.

I am also of the mind that stats don't really count unless they come from Bioware or EA. They don't voluntarily poll people, they take stats directly from the game. But even those are not truly representative as users can put Origin in offline mode, or turn off sending telemetry to Bioware (though I imagine that these numbers are low, since people tend to not opt out of things, which is why they are defaulted to ON).
 
The Bioware Twitter account released several stats: m v f Inquisitors, dragons slain, one of the MP weekends.
 
EA also likes to release infographics with their quarterly earnings reports, like this one showing the more popular race/class combinations of Inquisitors,

human rogue 18%, human warrior 17%, human mage 15% (50% total)
elven warrior 13%, elven mage 12% (25% total)

 
This was released around the time of Trespasser (note the image). I think it was rightly speculated (in the fandom) that the surge in elf popularity is at least partly due to the significance that race plays in the story, especially as it was more widely known during the time of Trespasser's release. Do note that the elf rogue numbers, as well as those for the other two races, are so low that they aren't even represented, making a combined missing total of 25%, including one of the elf class options.
 
As I elaborate on in this post (after these results were released), we can't know WHY a given player made these choices, so extrapolating any sort of meaning is pointless.
 
 
But, that then leads to...
 

I don't think that poll should be dismissed out of hand though, its the only statistics that are available afaik.
 
However, what BioWare should have done was make such a poll only for people who have the Long Service achievement (or something similar) so we can see what the people who have stuck through the series do.

Bioware doesn't like to release such information for exactly the reason that Natashima illustrates: people using it as a cudgel to validate their argument, whatever that may be.
 
It is a tool, nothing more. A good chunk of players don't even finish the game, but that doesn't mean they won't make an ending. Romances are also underplayed considerably less than you might think if you were to judge solely by BSN posts, but they still make romances, including minority LGB romances. Despite the low numbers of elf and dwarf representation in DAO, they still thought it was worthwhile to add additional races for DAI -- and a new race! -- once they got the extra time.
 
 
Telemetry is heavily discussed, with Bioware people, in these two threads.

[SardaukarElite]

While the released metrics have obvious failings, they're all we have (for BioWare games), and (from my uninformed perspective) I don't see much room to assume that a legion female players / player character players is hidden in the untracked space around the polls.

 

As Jorji says 18% isn't an insignificant number. And in my own experience gender isn't a barrier to people enjoying shooting aliens in the face, so I'm inclined to think that statistics showing a lack of women playing are showing that more women could be playing than are.

 

Even if they're right, I don't see a problem, and given Titanfall and Call of Duty are providing player character gender choice I'm not sure that arguing over old BioWare data is going to hold back change much. 

 

 

Amen. This game alone proves that point.

 

 

 

[vertigomez]

I still think the data doesn't tell you a whole lot because there are plenty of men and women who play opposite sex PCs. Unless you assume that behind every male Shep/Warden/Quizzie there must be a man... I have no clue, but does that data factor in multiple playthroughs? Completed playthroughs? Playthroughs from when you've had the game for six years and are only just now getting around to playing it?

It doesn't seem very helpful, is all.

[nightscrawl]

I still think the data doesn't tell you a whole lot because there are plenty of men and women who play opposite sex PCs. Unless you assume that behind every male Shep/Warden/Quizzie there must be a man... I have no clue, but does that data factor in multiple playthroughs? Completed playthroughs? Playthroughs from when you've had the game for six years and are only just now getting around to playing it?

It doesn't seem very helpful, is all.

This is one component of it, certainly. In one of those threads, part of that data on race creation counts ANY character created, regardless of whether the player went on to actually play the game with them, only played through the origin story just to see it, deleted it after loading into the game because their face wasn't perfect, and so on.

 

Also, the reason that such polls are unreliable is that the respondents are self-selecting. Since that old poll was for XBox, what if there are a higher portion of males playing on the XBox versus on Playstation or PC? Obviously, most of those males are likely to make a male PC, and reply that they did so in the poll. There is also the matter of the base audience for a game. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the audience for Dragon Age skews higher female than it does for Mass Effect. That franchise, despite its use of female Shepard, hasn't treated the female PC equitably (in terms of romances, and such). Perhaps that changed over time, but it can create an initial entry barrier.

 

Also, just because certain numbers are "all we have" doesn't mean they deserve to be taken seriously.

 

 

At the 2013 GDC, David Gaider gave a very insightful presentation about Sex in Video Games. There is one segment where he talks about the marketability of the female protagonist -- bookmarked on the left under Female Protagonists. It's not necessarily so much about what the player chooses to do, but about "conventional industry wisdom," that of, "games with female protagonists don't sell."

 

He gives an interesting example of how, during the boom time of Everquest, when its peak sub base was < 1m or so, the "conventional industry wisdom" was that that was it as far as MMOs go... and then along comes World of Warcraft and blows the f-ing roof off the place.

 

There is also "the way things are that reinforces the assumptions that we already have." Oh, a bad game with a female protagonist didn't sell well, not because it was bad, but because it has a female protagonist.

 

There are several such things all throughout the presentation.

 

Incidentally, DG is really good at giving these presentations, and he comes across really differently when he's talking to other devs, rather than gaming media or fans. He's in his element here, and it really shows that he knows what he's talking about.