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It doesn't seem very helpful, is all.
They aren't. Though possibly the people collecting them have a use in mind, a better one than arguing about women on the internet.
Also, just because certain numbers are "all we have" doesn't mean they deserve to be taken seriously.
They deserve to be taken for what they are. Their limitations don't make the opposite of what they indicate true. Discrediting them doesn't make anything else true.
They aren't. Though possibly the people collecting them have a use in mind, a better one than arguing about women on the internet.
They deserve to be taken for what they are. Their limitations don't make the opposite of what they indicate true. Discrediting them doesn't make anything else true.
My point is that they are only true for those limited respondents and that there are other factors that influence such results. But people don't generally use polls that way, they point to poll results and say that it is indicative of whatever thing, when that's not necessarily the case.
I think polls can be fun, especially if you compare yourself with the results. I had fun browsing through these poll results and seeing where I fell in relation to those players, but I don't really attach any significance to them. Just like with the XBox poll, those results are based off data from Reddit users, which in turn is even narrower if you consider those likely to browse r/dragonage. There are a good chunk of DA players that never go there (like myself), just as there are those who never venture to Tumblr, have Twitter (for that Mark Darrah poll on a hypothetical DA tactics game) or even come to the BSN.
Also, the reason that such polls are unreliable is that the respondents are self-selecting. Since that old poll was for XBox, what if there are a higher portion of males playing on the XBox versus on Playstation or PC? Obviously, most of those males are likely to make a male PC, and reply that they did so in the poll. There is also the matter of the base audience for a game. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the audience for Dragon Age skews higher female than it does for Mass Effect. That franchise, despite its use of female Shepard, hasn't treated the female PC equitably (in terms of romances, and such). Perhaps that changed over time, but it can create an initial entry barrier.
Also, just because certain numbers are "all we have" doesn't mean they deserve to be taken seriously.
At the 2013 GDC, David Gaider gave a very insightful presentation about Sex in Video Games. There is one segment where he talks about the marketability of the female protagonist -- bookmarked on the left under Female Protagonists. It's not necessarily so much about what the player chooses to do, but about "conventional industry wisdom," that of, "games with female protagonists don't sell."
He gives an interesting example of how, during the boom time of Everquest, when its peak sub base was < 1m or so, the "conventional industry wisdom" was that that was it as far as MMOs go... and then along comes World of Warcraft and blows the f-ing roof off the place.
There is also "the way things are that reinforces the assumptions that we already have." Oh, a bad game with a female protagonist didn't sell well, not because it was bad, but because it has a female protagonist.
The m vs f Inquisitor picture really gives us an idea of how easy it would be to skew the results. X1 has around 25% female Inquisitors, and PC has around 45%. That's a huge gap and neither of those results should be used alone. We cannot take that xbox poll alone and use it as if it were significant. A result that can have a margin error somewhere around 15% is not meaningful in this kind of conversation. Even that DAI number seems flawed, because that 32% looks like a simple arithmetic mean, not a weighted one.
And I'll plug Manveer Heir's talk again, where he makes a point about female protagonists and sales, In short - those games have less than 40% of marketing funds (and games that let you choose below 50%) that male hero only games get.
My point is that they are only true for those limited respondents and that there are other factors that influence such results. But people don't generally use polls that way, they point to poll results and say that it is indicative of whatever thing, when that's not necessarily the case.
Yes, and my point is that fighting an argument on the validity of that data doesn't gain ground. Worse, it implies that if the data were accurate it would have weight.
What if the women playing BioWare games are, quite firmly, in the minority? Does it change anything? I believe that all games can stand to benefit from assuming that their audience is potentially everyone, and that they should open their design to that regardless of what the numbers are currently.
As it stands the best, most recent data we have is the Inquisitor release, which says 32% of Inquisitors they tracked were female. And while I question the usefulness of that data, I don't see reason to believe that the truth, could anyone find it, is better (or more balanced or whatever).
I'd rather argue for what I think should be than what I hope is.
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Not that I'm saying people shouldn't question the numbers, just that I don't think we should assume that because the data could be skewed it is, and that if it isn't it doesn't matter anyway.
The m vs f Inquisitor picture really gives us an idea of how easy it would be to skew the results. X1 has around 25% female Inquisitors, and PC has around 45%. That's a huge gap and neither of those results should be used alone. We cannot take that xbox poll alone and use it as if it were significant. A result that can have a margin error somewhere around 15% is not meaningful in this kind of conversation. Even that DAI number seems flawed, because that 32% looks like a simple arithmetic mean, not a weighted one.
And I'll plug Manveer Heir's talk again, where he makes a point about female protagonists and sales, In short - those games have less than 40% of marketing funds (and games that let you choose below 50%) that male hero only games get.
Part of it really is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The industry thinks certain games won't do well due to ingrained prejudices about their own audience, so they don't give it the opportunity to do well by providing similar funds. I think that most players, regardless of gender, will give a game a chance if they think the concept behind the game is interesting or looks fun.
In a way, I think something similar can be applied to the comics industry and their occasional character shifts. We get a female Thor, a black Spider-Man (the introduction of this one seemed really well done, a passing of the torch), and various other things, but they don't want to take a chance have a new character of some minority and give their audience the benefit of the doubt that they will consume the material if they find it well done, regardless of who the hero is, what their background is, or who they are attracted to. There are occasionally such new characters, but there need to be more.
(I don't have a great interest or stake in these comics things, I'm only aware of them from following various news sites.)
There are guys who pick Princess Peach in certain Mario games because her special ability is to float; they don't care that she's a she, Mario's gf, and is covered in pink. Princess Zelda is insanely popular with both genders, as is her alter ego Sheik.
I'll admit that I don't know how accurate this comparison is, since I haven't played either franchise, but it seems like you could compare something like Tomb Raider (female protag) with Uncharted (male protag). Yes, I get that Lara Croft has been occasionally sexualized, but it IS a highly popular series where male players play AS the female protagonist, being a badass, not being 'fridged or in need of rescuing, etc.
Uncharted 4 spoiler...
It really seems like we take two steps forward, one step back sometimes... But I do think the gaming industry as a whole is moving forward.
Honestly, I think every product needs this message on the box: "If you liked this, please tell us about it! *Website*" It is so frustrating to know that people are more likely to complain than praise, so the complainers feed off each other.
There was an Uncharted 4 play tester that raged over the fact that, aside from that spoiler, there was a black female character that kicked Nate's ass. ND told him to scram.
The Tomb Rider reboot is very successful and they toned down the..eh chest size and shortness of those shorts. Which is great, because people can stop going "Remember Me/Mirror's Edge flopped, see?" One had terrible combat, and the other is a niche parkour game that shies away from gunplay. And neither had a big marketing campaign. Mirror's Edge seemed more like a technology demo at the time.
And agreed on self-fulfilling prophecies. If you don't give the proper support the game needs, because it's risky, then of course it's going to fail.
Publishers should really stop judging the market by the worst elements and introduce some variety.
Which reminds me, I hope I'll have some free time, so I can finally play Dreamfall Chapters. They decided to do their own thing, and additionally to the female protagonist from the previous game, they added Kian, a PoC gay man, as the second one.
She was sixteen years old.
Kind of veering off topic here, but I had to put my dog down today.
Kind of veering off topic here, but I had to put my dog down today.
I'm so sorry to hear that.
At least she led a good long life with you.
Well it can't compare to putting down a dog, but I've had a rough week too.
Started my job on Monday and so far it's been rough. Not cause of the job or my coworkers, but I got sick the night after my first day. I blame all the snot nosed kids who can't wash their hands. Also being out in the sun all day is pretty draining.
I'm just glad my job gave me back my two days off this week after having me work all almost the whole week last week
The Tomb Rider reboot is very successful and they toned down the..eh chest size and shortness of those shorts. Which is great, because people can stop going "Remember Me/Mirror's Edge flopped, see?" One had terrible combat, and the other is a niche parkour game that shies away from gunplay. And neither had a big marketing campaign. Mirror's Edge seemed more like a technology demo at the time.
Interestingly while Mirror's Edge was held up as female protagonist game that tanked at the time, EA has given the franchise a sequel which just came out - despite apparently it not being a safe investment.
2016 has shown quite a few playable women (comparatively) in both releases and announced games. Throw in Fury Road and Force Awakens for cross media influence and I'm inclined to think 2013's no women on boxes culture might have been broken, at least for the time being.
Interestingly while Mirror's Edge was held up as female protagonist game that tanked at the time, EA has given the franchise a sequel which just came out - despite apparently it not being a safe investment.
2016 has shown quite a few playable women (comparatively) in both releases and announced games. Throw in Fury Road and Force Awakens for cross media influence and I'm inclined to think 2013's no women on boxes culture might have been broken, at least for the time being.
I hope so.
As much as I liked ME, and I'll definitely be picking up Catalyst, I was surprised that EA greenlit the sequel. EA obviously knows it won't break records, but it seems like a passion project for Dice. I think EA didn't say no to them (well, this time, ME2 was rejected a few years back), because they saved them maybe hundreds of millions. Aside from the royalties for UE, look, for example, at MEA - it will use the dialogue and maybe inventory system the DA team made, the driving system from the NFS team, and shooting mechanics from Dice and Battlefield. That had to save them a lot of time and money.
When a studio pushes out a solid engine, that is used by the entire company (even sports titles are switching to it), then you really want to keep them happy.
Or maybe it's part of EA's indie push. Unravel didn't sell millions, and they are already making the sequel. We'll probably never know.
Ah crap, so sorry Gomez
Oh goodness, I'm so sorry hun! My heart goes out to you and if you feel like chatting, please hit me up. <hugs>
I'm so sorry to hear that.
At least she led a good long life with you.
I'm feeling a bit better today.Well it can't compare to putting down a dog, but I've had a rough week too.
Started my job on Monday and so far it's been rough. Not cause of the job or my coworkers, but I got sick the night after my first day. I blame all the snot nosed kids who can't wash their hands. Also being out in the sun all day is pretty draining.
It sucks getting sick on your very first week. Hope you feel better.
Kind of veering off topic here, but I had to put my dog down today.
I'm really sorry to hear this gomez. If you need to chat, let me know.
Kind of veering off topic here, but I had to put my dog down today.
I'm so sorry, Gomez. I wish I was better at knowing what to say during sad occasions, but just know that I'm here to listen as well, should you need it.
::powerful internet hug::
It really is unbelievable to me that people can't get past their own headcanon to answer a simple question. I don't know if it's reading comprehension fail, or people in general, perhaps due to the open forum of the internet that allows everyone to feel that their opinion matters, but it happens over and over again.
Well, at least it's not yet another LI list...
I'm actually tired of that question. 
It doesn't matter with other romances, why that one? People seem to be under the impression that mages get some extra super special dialogue that is extra super special because they're both mages. (Not knocking anyone who enjoys playing a mage for that romance, just tired of people assuming there's something extra special in game. It's all in your head.)
I'm really sorry to hear this gomez. If you need to chat, let me know.
I'm so sorry, Gomez. I wish I was better at knowing what to say during sad occasions, but just know that I'm here to listen as well, should you need it.
::powerful internet hug::
I'm doing much better, I promise. Just need some time to process everything.It really is unbelievable to me that people can't get past their own headcanon to answer a simple question. I don't know if it's reading comprehension fail, or people in general, perhaps due to the open forum of the internet that allows everyone to feel that their opinion matters, but it happens over and over again.
Apparently in two weeks I have to work the night club, with lots of drunk people. I'm already iffy about having to deal with people and hardly have much of a filter. I have even less patience for annoying drunk people, who I have been warned may try to touch me and take my equipment out of my hands while I'm working. Not sure if it's true or my aunt doing a terrible job at trying to give me a heads up on the matter, but I'm strongly considering taking that day off and loosing a day's pay. I do not like crowds, stupid people, and people touching me without my permission.
Apparently in two weeks I have to work the night club, with lots of drunk people. I'm already iffy about having to deal with people and hardly have much of a filter. I have even less patience for annoying drunk people, who I have been warned may try to touch me and take my equipment out of my hands while I'm working. Not sure if it's true or my aunt doing a terrible job at trying to give me a heads up on the matter, but I'm strongly considering taking that day off and loosing a day's pay. I do not like crowds, stupid people, and people touching me without my permission.
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