11 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Reasons why I think that this is the case:-

 

1) One of the primary attributes Rogues typically focus is Cunning. Here is how Cunning is defined as...

 

DAO Definition of Cunning:-

 

Cunning determines how well a character learns and reasons. Most skills, such as Combat Tactics, require a quick mind to master—and an observant eye can more easily find weaknesses in enemy armor. Rogues benefit most from this statistic, as many of their class abilities and special attacks rely on subtlety or reading the target, not raw strength.

 

Characters cannot learn advanced skills unless they possess great cunning, so this attribute is useful for any character who wishes to use skills effectively. It is doubly important for rogues, since many of their class-specific talents are greatly improved by high cunning. Cunning helps characters identify weaknesses in opponents' armor, increasing the armor penetration score, and also contributes to mental resistance and the persuasion side of Coercion.

 

DAI Definition of Cunning:-

 

Cunning - The character's intelligence and deviousness. Each point increases Critical Chance and Ranged Defense.

 

So Cunning how smart a character is, how well they can learn, how well they can reason and how devious they are.

 

By contrast, the class that is traditionally thought of as intelligent, the Mage, primarily focus on developing their Magic and Willpower. Here are their definitions...

 

DAO Definitions of Magic & Willpower:-

 

Magic is the measure of a character's natural affinity for the arcane. This attribute is crucial for mages, since it directly increases a character's spellpower score, which determines the potency of all spells. The magic attribute also determines how effective potions, poultices, and salves are for all classes.

 

Unsurprisingly, mages gain the most benefit from a high magic attribute; the magic attribute's modifier determines the mage's spellpower, which in turn governs the magnitude of a spell's effect, including damage. For characters of all classes, the magic attribute also increases the effectiveness of healing poultices, potions, and salves. A high magic score is required to wield high-level staves or learn certain spells. Magic also contributes to mental resistance.

 

DAI Definitions of Magic & Willpower:-

 

Magic - The character's connection to the Fade and ability to manipulate it. Each point increases Attack (Mages only) and Barrier Damage Bonus.

 

Willpower - The character's strength of mind and personality. Each point increases Attack (all classes) and Magic Defense.

 

So as you can see, there is no mention of intelligence or learning capacity or reasoning capacity. This is because Dragon Age Mages are not Wizards but they are Sorcerers. In D&D, Sorcerers do not rely on Intelligence for their spellcasting but instead rely on Charisma.

 

The reason for this is simple - Sorcerer's power is a natural extension of their body. They influence the arcane energies surrounding them and bends them to their will. It is a form of natural magic since magic is a natural phenomena in Thedas. People are born with that magic and must learn to control it.

 

But we have Circle of Magi and they are institutions of learning ? True but we also know that magic in Thedas does not require one to go to a Circle to be developed. That is simply an option, not a necessity. What's more, mages who go to Circles of Magi go there to learn how to develop their will to resist demons and use the Fade more efficiently, not to study and become intelligent.

 

2) Rogues employ a diverse range of skillsets.

 

Across all the three games, Rogues use traps, poisons, technological gadgets and even some magic to fight. Tempests gain their elixirs by killing elemental demons and harvesting their essences. That has its roots in magic. Artificers have to craft elaborate traps and devices. They also gain the most amount of skill points in DAO. They have to know how to disarm traps and locks.

 

A class that has to be adept at so many things would have to possess at least a respectable level of intelligence.

 

By contrast, Mages primarily rely on magic with the occasional melee combat and Warriors primarily rely on combat with the occasional magic like theSpirit Warriors. Not saying Mages and Warriors are not intelligent but they do not have to be skilled in so many different things to do really well.

 

Thoughts & Comments ?

[Phoe77]

My thoughts are that attributes are largely a necessary gameplay abstraction and that they should oftentimes be taken with a grain of salt when discussing in-universe competencies.  Additionally, not all rogues specialize into a class that makes use of the diverse toolkit of an artificier or tempest.  In fact, not all rogues specialize at all and rely mostly on the "stick the pointy end into the enemy's soft spots" skillset.  

 

Logically speaking, the rogue class should run the gamut from highly trained assassins or gadgeteers to uneducated ruffians, but, because of the mechanical importance of stat allocation, both of these types of characters are likely to be approximately equal in intelligence if we only use their attribute scores.  Similarly, warriors should encompass highly trained tacticians and commanders, who would likely have some degree of intelligence, as well as berserkers and brutes who have never studied anything in their lives.  

 

I'm inclined to imagine that the classes are relatively evenly matched when it comes to intellect, simply because of how widely I imagine it varies between members of each of the classes.  I suspect that mages are generally the most highly educated of the three classes since Circles are academic entities as well as magical training centers.  

[DeathScepter]

Keep in mind that Berserkers and Reavers of any worth do have a healthy measure of self control. Self Control is a reflection of intelligence and true, Intelligence has several sides to it. The Berserkers of Old must have both intelligence and self control to make it both an art form and into a teachable format.

 

 

Before Oghren's fall from grace(ie his alcholism and his wife and house left him), what I do remember that he was in charge of a squad of berserkers that went into the Deep Roads and what else I remember that he was often successful at leading them.

[German Soldier]

I think that you need to consider specialization of classes not only the class

[Kimarous]

There are many forms of intelligence. A streetsmart rogue who knows the ins and outs of criminal society, how to bypass locks, and pick pockets without being noticed... that differs greatly from a booksmart scholar who could prattle on for days about memorized history the rogue would know nothing about, yet would equally be completely lost and helpless in a dark alley. That of course differs from general "wisdom" (which encompasses all manner of fields), or the culinary education of a cook, or even the ability to speak or read in multiple languages.

 

Just saying, a rogue high in "cunning" probably just applies to roguish knowledge like the aforementioned picking of locks and pockets, plus a bit of anatomical familiarity to hit the right organ at the right time.

[Gileadan]

Cunning, like every other attribute, is mostly on your equipment though. This means that rogues wear the smartest stuff and as a result probably hear the most disapproving voices in their heads. They likely have socks that can outsmart them.

[Dai Grepher]

This is all refuted with one word...

Spoiler

Leliana.

[straykat]

I think that you need to consider specialization of classes not only the class

 

Yeah, that helps too.

 

I think Artificer is probably the smartest. It drastically switched up my story, when I veered from Assassin to Artificer. I wanted to play a human rogue, and it blended well with a scholar type who tinkered, and explored and knew all kinds of mechanics and traps (like Genetivi). My background for an Assassin is kind of more urban and vigilante like. Intelligent, but mostly intelligent about death.

[vertigomez]

Eh. If you take stats too srs, a warrior elf with high Str can win an armwrestling competition against a qunari mage or dwarf rogue, so...

[straykat]

Eh. If you take stats too srs, a warrior elf with high Str can win an armwrestling competition against a qunari mage or dwarf rogue, so...

 

I liked it better in previous games.. you could make an uber warrior with high dex. Better than strength warriors.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Yeah, that helps too.

 

I think Artificer is probably the smartest. It drastically switched up my story, when I veered from Assassin to Artificer. I wanted to play a human rogue, and it blended well with a scholar type who tinkered, and explored and knew all kinds of mechanics and traps (like Genetivi). My background for an Assassin is kind of more urban and vigilante like. Intelligent, but mostly intelligent about death.

 

Which is why Artificer is my favorite Rogue specialization. It makes you feel that your Rogue is someone that is quite highly intelligent.

[Qis]

Some people say stats are just for gameplay, but for me stats is what my character is, because it is what define my character during character creation and level up. It's bother me a little about stats do not reflect a character

 

Warrior or Knight class always being shown as brute, with little to no Intelligent at all no matter what background the character have, such as noble who surely having some education.

 

Because of the stats, a Warrior or Knight cannot detect things, cannot be as persuasive, less dealing critical blow on enemy despite having a lot of strength and skillful fighter...

 

Rogue or Thief class have been too far away from it's own original concept, that is relying on non-combat skills, but today everything is about combat and Rogues or Thief become more powerful than Warrior or Knight

 

When i play Dark Souls, i always put Intelligent points to my Knight even if not learning any magic, just because i feel a Knight sure get some educations and not like any common warriors. And funnily in this game, there is Faith points also, a Cleric will have high Faith and no Intelligent, like it means "more faithful you're, more dumber you're..."

 

i also put Cunning to my Warrior HN and DN in DA:O, i don't like the impression that an heir to the house/throne is a dumb person