106 réponses à ce sujet

[Donk]

 

The person with more resolve about their views is Sera, funnily.

 

Oh boy. Use that name responsibly, you know it triggers people!

[AntiChri5]

I like her.. but since she's a main/flagship character, I think they tried to make her a little too inoffensive. There should have been more strong beliefs, not less.

 

The person with more resolve about their views is Sera, funnily.

I strongly disagree, BioWare initially presents her in a negative way then subverts it with her characterization.

 

In both DA2 and Inquisition, Cassandra is introduced interrogating a prisoner the player is supposed to connect with. In DA2 it's the ultimate buddy character, Varric, the one inoffensive character in DA2. In Inquisition, it's the player character themselves.

 

Putting her in a position of such extreme power over someone we like or connect with makes her natural directness, rashness and no nonsense attitude come off as her being a vicious, thuggish tyrant. They deliberately show us her character in the worst possible light, as her introduction.

 

Im kind of impressed with the balls, really.

 

Then they go on to show her in other contexts, revealing her depth and many admirable qualities. They had enough faith in those qualities (and their ability as writers to communicate them) that they were able to build and subvert expectations that way.

 

Normally they hold back on a characters worst moment for near the end of the game (Morrigan's abandonment, Anders..........Andersness).

[Bayonet Hipshot]

*snip*

 

1) Truth is truth. It can depend on perspective but not necessarily so because believe it or not, we have something called objective truth. What is true is that there is no concrete evidence that the Maker actually exists. We only have people who have 'faith' that the Maker exist. We or rather our protagonists have not see the Maker with their own senses and neither has anyone except by people who claimed that Andraste managed to do so. So your statement is faith is simply faith is false because here we have an example of how faith gets in the way of the facts and the fact are that - We have no concrete or definite evidence to prove that the Maker exists and that Andrastianism is a valid ideology. At least you can point to the Old Gods, the Evanuris and say:- "Hey, the belief systems based on these beings are crap but at least they are real."

 

2) Poppycock. The Chantry faith has resulted in the oppression of mages, of non-Andrastians, of Elves and yet Cassandra does not see fit to abandon it. Better still, if she becomes Divine, she does nothing of significant value despite all her talk of 'respecting tradition but not abandoning it'. Does she open the priesthood to other races and the male sex ? No. Does she restore the Canticle of Shartan ? Nope. Her motto of 'respecting tradition but not abandoning it' results in inaction.

 

3) That simply implies shortsightedness. Gaspard is a military leader and nothing else. All he knows is war. He knows or cares jack sh*t about culture or politics or academics or arts or Elven rights. What happens when the war is over in Orlais for Gaspard ? Oh look, he either decides to wage war with Ferelden or Tevinter. Look at all the foresight at work. Is more war and more conflict worth giving up the Grand Game for a short time (since I doubt one man can change it all and it would revert back once he is dead) ?

 

4) As you go further in game, it is proven that the Inquisitor is not a savior arranged by higher power. For starters, the Inquisitor simply ends up in the room where Corypheus is sacrificing Divine Justinia. Justinia then knocks the somnaborium out of Corypheus' hands and you, the Inquisitor, grab it. Later, it is revealed that the somnaborium belonged to Fen'Harel, that the anchor is his mark and only he could have wielded it safely. So if we are to be factual and truthful, the Inquisitor should be called "Herald of Fen'Harel" because that is what the Inquisitor actually is. Somehow I doubt Cassandra will change her mind and call the Inquisitor that even if the Inquisitor proceeds to tell her all these things. Furthermore, if we are to just accept that Chantry lore is accurate - The the Maker is Fen'Harel since according to the Chant of Light the Maker created the Veil and we know after Trespasser that Fen'Harel did so. Once again, I doubt Cassandra will want to accept that.

 

5) The inherent dangers of free mages are too great, even though the reality altering time magic was not done by a mage from the South but a Tevinter supremacist mage. So logically, the answer is to deal with that said Tevinter supremacist mage. Furthermore, since wish to acquire more power for the Mark, the sensible answer would be to ask nicely instead of coercing them and taking them as prisoners. Ah but who am I kidding, we are talking about a person of faith here whose modus operandi is coercion.

 

6) Magic is magic. If magic is inherently dangerous, then so are weapons, poisons, traps, mines, and bombs. I have not seen her pushing for restrictions on weapons, poisons, traps, mines, and bombs. Furthermore, Bioware has stated that magic is an inherent part of the world, then saying magic is inherently dangerous is like saying gravity is dangerous. I have not seen her saying that we need to regulate gravity.

[Giantdeathrobot]

snipped for brevity's sake

 

You seem highly fixated on finding every single possible flaw Cassandra could potentially have, as if anyone in this setting is squicky clean. 

 

Analyzing a character is one thing, but you seem to hold a grudge against her purely because she's Andrastian and isn't willing to give up all her beliefs. How does that make her a fundamentalist I have no idea.

[sniper_arrow]

1) Truth is truth. It can depend on perspective but not necessarily so because believe it or not, we have something called objective truth. What is true is that there is no concrete evidence that the Maker actually exists. We only have people who have 'faith' that the Maker exist. We or rather our protagonists have not see the Maker with their own senses and neither has anyone except by people who claimed that Andraste managed to do so. So your statement is faith is simply faith is false because here we have an example of how faith gets in the way of the facts and the fact are that - We have no concrete or definite evidence to prove that the Maker exists and that Andrastianism is a valid ideology. At least you can point to the Old Gods, the Evanuris and say:- "Hey, the belief systems based on these beings are crap but at least they are real."

 

2) Poppycock. The Chantry faith has resulted in the oppression of mages, of non-Andrastians, of Elves and yet Cassandra does not see fit to abandon it. Better still, if she becomes Divine, she does nothing of significant value despite all her talk of 'respecting tradition but not abandoning it'. Does she open the priesthood to other races and the male sex ? No. Does she restore the Canticle of Shartan ? Nope. Her motto of 'respecting tradition but not abandoning it' results in inaction.

 

3) That simply implies shortsightedness. Gaspard is a military leader and nothing else. All he knows is war. He knows or cares jack sh*t about culture or politics or academics or arts or Elven rights. What happens when the war is over in Orlais for Gaspard ? Oh look, he either decides to wage war with Ferelden or Tevinter. Look at all the foresight at work. Is more war and more conflict worth giving up the Grand Game for a short time (since I doubt one man can change it all and it would revert back once he is dead) ?

 

4) As you go further in game, it is proven that the Inquisitor is not a savior arranged by higher power. For starters, the Inquisitor simply ends up in the room where Corypheus is sacrificing Divine Justinia. Justinia then knocks the somnaborium out of Corypheus' hands and you, the Inquisitor, grab it. Later, it is revealed that the somnaborium belonged to Fen'Harel, that the anchor is his mark and only he could have wielded it safely. So if we are to be factual and truthful, the Inquisitor should be called "Herald of Fen'Harel" because that is what the Inquisitor actually is. Somehow I doubt Cassandra will change her mind and call the Inquisitor that even if the Inquisitor proceeds to tell her all these things. Furthermore, if we are to just accept that Chantry lore is accurate - The the Maker is Fen'Harel since according to the Chant of Light the Maker created the Veil and we know after Trespasser that Fen'Harel did so. Once again, I doubt Cassandra will want to accept that.

 

5) The inherent dangers of free mages are too great, even though the reality altering time magic was not done by a mage from the South but a Tevinter supremacist mage. So logically, the answer is to deal with that said Tevinter supremacist mage. Furthermore, since wish to acquire more power for the Mark, the sensible answer would be to ask nicely instead of coercing them and taking them as prisoners. Ah but who am I kidding, we are talking about a person of faith here whose modus operandi is coercion.

 

6) Magic is magic. If magic is inherently dangerous, then so are weapons, poisons, traps, mines, and bombs. I have not seen her pushing for restrictions on weapons, poisons, traps, mines, and bombs. Furthermore, Bioware has stated that magic is an inherent part of the world, then saying magic is inherently dangerous is like saying gravity is dangerous. I have not seen her saying that we need to regulate gravity.

 

A few things:

 

3) Try reading the Masked Empire novel. Celene's ascension to the throne wasn't done by granting everyone hugs and kisses. 

 

5) The mage rebellion was poorly planned from the start. Fiona couldn't control some of her mages who went wild and caused damages in Ferelden. Once they indentured themselves to Alexius, they didn't do anything to help Teagan when he was forcibly removed from his castle. Allying with a Tevinter magister is one thing, not doing anything while an Arl was being kicked out of his own home and allowed the said magister and his cronies to do their dirty work is another. With that, what makes you think they're not guilty of any wrong doing? 

 

And before you argue that they didn't have a choice, they had one: not allying with Tevinter for starters.

 

6) The thing is, magic is easily accessible when you're a mage. Sure you can say a weapon can be easily be obtained, but magic can be unleashed anytime by a mage at any moment. What would be worse is an untrained mage or a power-hungry apostate who relies on blood magic. Connor, Jowan, and Grace are some examples. 

[Secret Rare]

1) Truth is truth. It can depend on perspective but not necessarily so because believe it or not, we have something called objective truth. What is true is that there is no concrete evidence that the Maker actually exists. We only have people who have 'faith' that the Maker exist. We or rather our protagonists have not see the Maker with their own senses and neither has anyone except by people who claimed that Andraste managed to do so. So your statement is faith is simply faith is false because here we have an example of how faith gets in the way of the facts and the fact are that - We have no concrete or definite evidence to prove that the Maker exists and that Andrastianism is a valid ideology. At least you can point to the Old Gods, the Evanuris and say:- "Hey, the belief systems based on these beings are crap but at least they are real."

 

Absence of evidence is not in itself an evidence,it's seems to me that you are applying the criteria of the scientific method to discredit a belief when they operate on two totally different planes.

Objective truths about reality are very much impossible to achieve as the scientific method can only try to develop theories as supposition of a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained,however it work so long as the rules remain unchanged.

There are many mathematical models of perfectly functional universes that have different constants,different laws,where time is even inverted and surprise they works!In the sense that they are rational and logical but have different rules,so i think that your idea of reality is quite static rather than dynamic.

 

 

 

2) Poppycock. The Chantry faith has resulted in the oppression of mages, of non-Andrastians, of Elves and yet Cassandra does not see fit to abandon it. Better still, if she becomes Divine, she does nothing of significant value despite all her talk of 'respecting tradition but not abandoning it'. Does she open the priesthood to other races and the male sex ? No. Does she restore the Canticle of Shartan ? Nope. Her motto of 'respecting tradition but not abandoning it' results in inaction.

 

 

The chantry isn't the reason as for why mages are feared and kept in guard if there is this situation is because of historical reasons.

For once there was a mage named Solas who created the veil and that basically resulted in the creation of two factions, mages and non-mages and all the relative distasteful implications.

Spirits were no more free to roam in the physical world so it was born the concept of possession and abominations and all the relative distasteful implications.

If you want to blame something for these things blame The Dread wolf not the Maker.

 

3) That simply implies shortsightedness. Gaspard is a military leader and nothing else. All he knows is war. He knows or cares jack sh*t about culture or politics or academics or arts or Elven rights. What happens when the war is over in Orlais for Gaspard ? Oh look, he either decides to wage war with Ferelden or Tevinter. Look at all the foresight at work. Is more war and more conflict worth giving up the Grand Game for a short time (since I doubt one man can change it all and it would revert back once he is dead) ?

 

 

 

The choices of the ruler of orlais are all valid.

Celene has Bhelen's objectives (progress, trade and diplomacy with other nations, giving more rights to the lower classes) but with Harrowmont's character (too worried about what nobles might say, trying to appear as the benevolent lord, horrible judge of character). Meanwhile, Gaspar has Harrowmont's objectives (honor, tradition, the empire first, classism and xenophobia) but with Bhelen's mentality (cunning, the end justifies the means, master planner, resolute) i don't think that one is necessarly better than the other.

 

 

4) As you go further in game, it is proven that the Inquisitor is not a savior arranged by higher power. For starters, the Inquisitor simply ends up in the room where Corypheus is sacrificing Divine Justinia. Justinia then knocks the somnaborium out of Corypheus' hands and you, the Inquisitor, grab it. Later, it is revealed that the somnaborium belonged to Fen'Harel, that the anchor is his mark and only he could have wielded it safely. So if we are to be factual and truthful, the Inquisitor should be called "Herald of Fen'Harel" because that is what the Inquisitor actually is. Somehow I doubt Cassandra will change her mind and call the Inquisitor that even if the Inquisitor proceeds to tell her all these things. Furthermore, if we are to just accept that Chantry lore is accurate - The the Maker is Fen'Harel since according to the Chant of Light the Maker created the Veil and we know after Trespasser that Fen'Harel did so. Once again, I doubt Cassandra will want to accept that.

 

 

We all know the story of the game but why i can't roleplay an Inquisitor who think that the luck of gain the anchor and deprive it from Corypheus grasp was the sign that i was the Herald of Andraste? I think this is what Cassandra believe which does not depend on the nature of the anchor itself.

 

 

 

6) Magic is magic. If magic is inherently dangerous, then so are weapons, poisons, traps, mines, and bombs. I have not seen her pushing for restrictions on weapons, poisons, traps, mines, and bombs. Furthermore, Bioware has stated that magic is an inherent part of the world, then saying magic is inherently dangerous is like saying gravity is dangerous. I have not seen her saying that we need to regulate gravity.

Mages are the problems not magic in itself.

Ordinary weapons can't cause the same amount of damage of magic

The breach,the blights,the veil all those are earth shattering events cause by mages so i think it would be short sighted to keep them unguarded.

 

 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Why does nobody talk about the blatant hypocritical double standards she shows towards mages at the start of the game that several characters point out:

 

 

1. How she proclaims all the damage the rogue mages are doing while completely ignoring the templars are doing THE EXACT SAME THING which she gets called out on

 

2. How she quite obviously implies she thinks Fiona and the mages are responsible for the breach merely because Fiona just happened to not be at the breach and completely ignoring that Lucius was also not at the Conclave.

 

3. How she also acts by implying that the mages were responsible for the breach while Josephine retorts the templars could also be responsible.

 

4. If you ally with the mages, Cass' disapproval scene has her go on a rant how you are protecting mages who are responsible for everything bad yet she doesn't say a word if you conscript the templars.

[Milan92]

Well, considering how she lost her brother to mages......

[thesuperdarkone2]

Well, considering how she lost her brother to mages......

Then she should just come out and admit she's a mage hater rather than act like she's neutral. Also, just because mages killed her brother doesn't mean she should just hate the entire group.

 

For instance, If her brother was killed by elves, would that mean she's be justified in hating all elves?

[Milan92]

Then she should just come out and admit she's a mage hater rather than act like she's neutral. Also, just because mages killed her brother doesn't mean she should just hate the entire group.

 

For instance, If her brother was killed by elves, would that mean she's be justified in hating all elves?

 

I dont think she still actively hates mages, but her distrust still comes up to the surface every now and then.

 

Anthony was the world to her, she was never the same person afterwards, A wound like that can stay for a long time.

 

Ofcourse this doesn't mean she should put all mages in the same camp. Which she doesn't, since she respects Solas and Dorian over the course of the game.

[Medhia_Nox]

 

 

Cassandra. Yes let's talk about Cassandra for me she is my favorite companion she is modest , honest , honorable. She wants nothing to do with her past where she was treated like a porcelain doll that was dusted from time to time when she was needed. She has a romantic side i really love those cutscenes where she is reading that book from Varric. Those are i think my favorite cutscenes in the game.

 

The only thing that bothers me a little about Cassandra is when you choose that the Mages should be free she Greatly Disapproves on that and in the cutscenes after she still disapproves but way less it feels like it is almost the opposite at least to me.

 

 And if this was real life then i could really consider her a friend.

  

So what are your thoughts about Cassandra ? 

 

 

Here is my thought about Cassandra: 

 

She is the best character in video games. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

You seem highly fixated on finding every single possible flaw Cassandra could potentially have, as if anyone in this setting is squicky clean. 

 

Analyzing a character is one thing, but you seem to hold a grudge against her purely because she's Andrastian and isn't willing to give up all her beliefs. How does that make her a fundamentalist I have no idea.

 

No I am not. I am simply pointing out that she is a religious fundamentalist who tries to be rational at times but fails in the end.

 

To clarify, a religious fundamentalist simply means someone who subscribes to the fundamental values of a particular religion. A religious moderate is someone who subscribes to the values of a particular religion while ignoring or pretending that the extreme tenets of the religion does not exist. A religious liberal is someone who subscribes to the values of a particular religion while upholding and modifying said values to suit a liberal perspective.

 

The phrase religious fundamentalist gets a bad rep because of religions like Islam whose fundamental teachings are not very tolerant or very civilized.

 

Cassandra is someone who believes in the fundamental values of the Andrastian Chantry throughout the game and does not change her stance on it. "But she leaves the Chantry and the Seekers !" Yes but that does not change the fact that she believes in the fundamental values of the Andrastian Chantry and she ends up returning to it either way. She is a traditionalist that only left those 2 organizations temporarily and only because the goals of the leaders within the two organizations do not align with hers. 

 

We can see this if she gets elected as Divine Victoria. She more or less preserves the status quo while changing next to nothing.

[AresKeith]

I like Cassandra. She's a reasonable sort of lady and has nice biceps.

 

If only the game was able to give a real toned body to match it

[MidnightWolf]

Then she should just come out and admit she's a mage hater rather than act like she's neutral. Also, just because mages killed her brother doesn't mean she should just hate the entire group.
 
For instance, If her brother was killed by elves, would that mean she's be justified in hating all elves?

She doesn't hate Mages, she simply mistrusts them. If she did hate, she wouldn't willingly have a relationship with not one, but two Mages. (I say two because my canon World state is a Human male Mage who romanced Cass)

[The Baconer]

Like her a lot. Great dudette.

I just don't see her as much of a leader... and her sentimental feelings towards the Seekers clouds her judgement.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

2) She disapproves if your Inquisitor performs the Elven rituals at the Temple of Mythal even though what your Inquisitor is doing is simply respecting the beliefs of the Elven people. I doubt she would be very charitable if the Inquisitor decides to enter a Chantry and give zero f*cks about the appropriate rituals that one must perform.

My impression here was that it had nothing to do with the rituals themselves, and that she disapproved for the same reason Cole or Iron Bull disapprove: you're taking extra time and your soldiers are dying because of it. That's how the choice was presented. Of course, since we don't see any soldiers die or even hear about it later, that aspect of the decision is forgettable and unreal.

 

If you were just exploring a temple you found in, say, the Exalted Plains, I doubt she'd have disapproved.

 

Edit: Although, I could be wrong.

 

"Why are we bothering with this heathen nonsense?" is pretty clear that this is about religion. And pretty aggravating if you've been putting up with her Andrastean nonsense for the whole game.

[Milan92]

My impression here was that it had nothing to do with the rituals themselves, and that she disapproved for the same reason Cole or Iron Bull disapprove: you're taking extra time and your soldiers are dying because of it. That's how the choice was presented. Of course, since we don't see any soldiers die or even hear about it later, that aspect of the decision is forgettable and unreal.

 

If you were just exploring a temple you found in, say, the Exalted Plains, I doubt she'd have disapproved.

 

This.

 

Cassandra would have gladly respected the temple if there weren't soldiers dying outside.

[Voidinist]

Then she should just come out and admit she's a mage hater rather than act like she's neutral. Also, just because mages killed her brother doesn't mean she should just hate the entire group.

 

For instance, If her brother was killed by elves, would that mean she's be justified in hating all elves?

 

Is anything less than coddling mages and absolving them of all their crimes considered being a "mage-hater"?

 

Her lover was a mage, her new lover could potentially be a mage, she got over her seething hatred for them as a whole when she became a Seeker. She seems to have respect for Vivienne, a positive approval mage Inq, and even Solas and Dorian despite the latters' backgrounds. Her disapproving of granting the rebels freedom to continue running amok among the populace is hardly spiteful hatred when she and her brother have been victims to unguarded magic and nothing the rebels have done show that they even deserve it.

 

I do agree that she sympathizes with the Templars and the Seekers a little too much for my tastes. She eventually comes to agree with the Inq if you blame the Seekers for the rebellion, though.

[AresKeith]

Is anything less than coddling mages and absolving them of all their crimes considered being a "mage-hater"?

 

In the eyes of Darkone, yes

[thesuperdarkone2]

Is anything less than coddling mages and absolving them of all their crimes considered being a "mage-hater"?

 

Her lover was a mage, her new lover could potentially be a mage, she got over her seething hatred for them as a whole when she became a Seeker. She seems to have respect for Vivienne, a positive approval mage Inq, and even Solas and Dorian despite the latters' backgrounds. Her disapproving of granting the rebels freedom to continue running amok among the populace is hardly spiteful hatred when she and her brother have been victims to unguarded magic and nothing the rebels have done show that they even deserve it.

 

I do agree that she sympathizes with the Templars and the Seekers a little too much for my tastes. She eventually comes to agree with the Inq if you blame the Seekers for the rebellion, though.

It's starting to be mage hate when she criticizes mages for some things yet completely ignores the templars when they do the exact same things.

 

Plus, that's ignoring how she gets angry you didn't cause the death of an Empress and put a racist warmonger on the throne merely because she hates politics.

[Milan92]

It's starting to be mage hate when she criticizes mages for some things yet completely ignores the templars when they do the exact same things.

 

Plus, that's ignoring how she gets angry you didn't cause the death of an Empress and put a racist warmonger on the throne merely because she hates politics.

 

Did you watch that scene where she tells the whining Templar to Deal. With. It in defence of the mages?

[Voidinist]

It's starting to be mage hate when she criticizes mages for some things yet completely ignores the templars when they do the exact same things.

 

Plus, that's ignoring how she gets angry you didn't cause the death of an Empress and put a racist warmonger on the throne merely because she hates politics.

 

When does she get angry? She said nothing to me when I saved Celene. She doesn't disapprove at all even when you let Celene execute Gaspard. And she actually greatly approves of Briala and Celene reconciling. Mostly because of her heavy interest in romance, but still.

[Medhia_Nox]

Well, considering how she lost her brother to mages......

How dare you... only mages can be victimized.

 

I'm sure there's a totally valid reason mages killed her brother. 

[Milan92]

How dare you... only mages can be victimized.

 

I'm sure there's a totally valid reason mages killed her brother. 

 

They needed the blood of a dragon for some ritual, so they asked Anthony to get it for them. He refused and they killed him for it.

[Inkvisiittori]

I think Cassandra is little boring and that's why she's maybe my least favorite companion. I mean I do like her - she is a good, strong warrior with her own beliefs and is obviously important member of the Inquisition. Her relationship with Varric is hilarious and she was a good friend to my Inquisitor. I just think she's not as interesting as the other characters. She's not in my party very often and that's mostly because her party banter is, like I already said, boring. 'Boring' sounds kind of harsh... I don't want to sound negative, because I do think she adds lot to the game itself. Maybe it's because she reminds me of Aveline... who I also thought was boring (though compared to her Cassandra is much, much more interesting). When I say she is my 'least favorite' companion I don't mean that she is a bad character, but rather just that I like the others more than her.