68 réponses à ce sujet

[Laughing_Man]

Ugh... Just go play The Division or Destiny, or Titanfall, or CoD, or CS, or Battlefield, or any other PvP shooter, you have too much choice already,

no need to ruin the ME combat system with pointless PvP BS, balancing re-balancing nerfing and buffing SP abilities according to the flavor of the day and the most vocal faction on the MP forum, oh, and all the scum and villainy that comes with PvP.

 

I mean, the one thing in common in all those enthusiastic MP threads is that they are made of 95% trolling.

And you guys wonder why many people don't even want to go near MP?...

[CHRrOME]

Do explain why it would be impossible to balance? 

 

Maybe because it will.

Imagine people using push on other shieldless dudes over and over and over. Imagine two vaguards biotic charging each other until the end of times. Imagine people using lash over and over.

It till be extremely aggravating sooner rather than later, being pulled around like a rag doll. I'm sure most people here hate stunlock. And there you have it, just another reason.

 

It works against IA, but player vs player... people will get mad pretty quickly. That, or you will have to rebalance powers to be basically magic marshmallows dealing next to nothing of damage and not having any physical effect on the player.

 

I'd like to see more shield by-pass powers in campaign (like pull, push and so on). By-pass against armor because I believe it's stupid to have armor that somehow makes you immune to being pushed and whatnot (aka cerberus dragoons, geth flamers).

But this of course will be a huge issue in PvP based MP.

[holdenagincourt]

Pretty much all of the evidence we have available from ME3MP and DAMP suggests that this would be a trainwreck.

 

Most importantly, basic things like infrastructure, resources, staff, balance attention and more are almost certainly just not there for PvP in ME:A. They were barely sufficient to support single-mode PvE crawl/wave content in ME3 or DA:I (probably insufficient in the case of DAMP). Not to mention that entirely new resources have to be scrounged up somewhere in the company (when the game has just been significantly delayed already) for PvP-exclusive things like matchmaking and, if this isn't going to be a complete farce, dedicated servers. Relatedly, some foundational decisions like making DAMP entirely about grinding to become a ball of stats are headscratchers that make me wonder what the design decisionmaking process is like at higher level. When the last lights were turned out at the offices of ME3MP and DAMP, both games had been left with myriad highly significant bugs and in an atrocious balance state (especially if placed within some kind of hypothetical PvP context).  Finally, BioWare have demonstrated a keen interest in deeply embedding their multiplayer campaigns in the lore of the single player campaign, which is easy to do with PvE but isn't so much with PvP unless ME:A is unexpectedly the story of some kind of civil war or leadership conflict between factions of colonists.

 

Trust me, we don't want this in the slightest. Sticking very close to the model of ME3MP and improving it in a workmanlike manner in a new engine is a far better option.

 

P.S. Not incidentally, I also feel PvE is superior as an MP choice in this case because it's more inclusive to more people who buy these games for the SP. This aside from all the practical considerations I've listed.

[Spectr61]

For the thousandth time no.

For all the many reasons that have already been hashed over in all the other threads, ad nauseam.

There are plenty of other hack-fest, how-low-is-your-ping rate choices out there.

Go play them for PVP, make MEAMP like ME3MP, only enhance its good ideas, and like ME3, leave the dedicated PVP to the others.

After all, we still have the Thunderdome to satisy the "I'm better than you" crowd.

[Tatar Foras]

While I like the idea, implementing a balanced PvP would be extremely difficult and I doubt Bioware has the resources needed to make it happen. Just imagine biotics in PvP, Vanguards would most likely dominate the scene charging everybody and then following up with nova constantly or adepts using lash or pull or slam, PvP would be absolutely cancerous.

[Statichands]

Remember getting stasis'd by Benezia in Me1? That sure was fun. 

 

Yes, but that was a boss battle, if it was pvp that move would get nerfed so hard. That's how these pvp games work, they make the game, let the gamers play it and find out who or what needs to be buffed and nerfed. The character classes would be similar to classes in other games. 

 

A Krogan could be the tank, tough and strong but slow

 

An Asari could be the nuker, insane amount of burst damage but very fragile. 

 

A Salarian could be the marksman, high dps but fragile. 

 

A human could be the soldier that is pretty balanced but doesn't excel at any skill. 

 

Those are just some examples. 

[Quarian Master Race]

Yes, but that was a boss battle, if it was pvp that move would get nerfed so hard. That's how these pvp games work, they make the game, let the gamers play it and find out who or what needs to be buffed and nerfed. The character classes would be similar to classes in other games. 

 

A Krogan could be the tank, tough and strong but slow

 

An Asari could be the nuker, insane amount of burst damage but very fragile. 

 

A Salarian could be the marksman, high dps but fragile. 

 

A human could be the soldier that is pretty balanced but doesn't excel at any skill. 

 

Those are just some examples. 

Class based? Me likey

The Drell could be a sneaky but fragile assassin, doing huge damage from the back but folding like a wet noodle in a straight fight.

The Quarian could build turrets/drones, with a shotty to defend them from close range, and would be reasonably tough.

The Turian would be a suave Sniper.

Would move the Salarian to a medic.

Geth or vorcha would be the pyro who talks funny

Something like this

[Bowlcuts]

Only if I get to exit the wreckage with a...

 

[ZipZap2000]

Stuff like throw and singularity would dominate the battlefield. They'd have to remove a crapton of powers, which I'm cool with. I can see warp being crucial in team pvp but biotic detonations would have to go, unless you wanna be wiped out one by one by organised groups of superfast internet connections.

Could always go the one power two guns route. So long as we aren't reimagining the warlock/hunter classes from destiny.

[goishen]

Ugh... Just go play The Division or Destiny, or Titanfall, or CoD, or CS, or Battlefield, or any other PvP shooter, you have too much choice already,

no need to ruin the ME combat system with pointless PvP BS, balancing re-balancing nerfing and buffing SP abilities according to the flavor of the day and the most vocal faction on the MP forum, oh, and all the scum and villainy that comes with PvP.

 

I mean, the one thing in common in all those enthusiastic MP threads is that they are made of 95% trolling.

And you guys wonder why many people don't even want to go near MP?...

 

 

I actually agree with this.  MP games have become so toxic and vitriolic as of late that it's not even like how it was back in the day (80's and 90's) of playing games.  Take a look at XCOM 1994 and take a look at a MOBA, I don't really care which one.  Complete change --  That's why when I heard about The Division and how it's MP only, I thought, "Yep, gonna skip it." 

 

I find that as I'm getting older, I either wanna play co-op or SP.  Any game that has a PVP twinge -- even the slightest hint -- is gonna be filled with the toxicity and vitriolic nature that has consumed most MOBAs.  And this is where I think nerds have to draw the line.  I'm talking gamers on one side and nerds on the other.  You can be both, but if you're too involved in one get prepped to be labeled as such.

[ZipZap2000]

While I like the idea, implementing a balanced PvP would be extremely difficult and I doubt Bioware has the resources needed to make it happen. Just imagine biotics in PvP, Vanguards would most likely dominate the scene charging everybody and then following up with nova constantly or adepts using lash or pull or slam, PvP would be absolutely cancerous.

Imagine walking around the corner and seeing a room full of singularities. Or getting flung across said room with throw and then hit with a shotgun.

You'd be pissed.

[Vespervin]

Going up against a team who are all using OHK (headshot) weapons and spamming Stasis sounds fun.

[Innocent Bystander]

Since PvP would require rework (not rebalancing, rework) of most abilities, I don't think it's gonna happen. I also think that no PvP would be better than another-generic-TPS-without-ME's-powers.

But that's, like, my opinion.

[Eckswhyzed]

I certainly wouldn't mind a PvP spinoff game made by another studio. There's quite a lot of potential in the guns + powers gameplay of Mass Effect. Even supposedly overpowered abilities such as biotic charge etc. don't present insurmountable hurdles.

 

But given Bioware's track record when it comes to fixing bugs and balancing the multiplayer modes in ME3 and DA:I, I would NOT like to see any PvP mode in Andromeda. I still love ME3MP despite all its imbalance and bugginess because the core gameplay is so fun, but any PvP mode tends to aggravate any imbalance and glitchiness to the point where a much higher standard required- that I don't believe Bioware can meet.

Modifié par Eckswhyzed, 11 mars 2016 - 02:06 .

[goishen]

I certainly wouldn't mind a PvP spinoff game made by another studio. There's quite a lot of potential in the guns + powers gameplay of Mass Effect. Even supposedly overpowered abilities such as biotic charge etc. don't present insurmountable hurdles.

 

But given Bioware's track record when it comes to fixing bugs and balancing the multiplayer modes in ME3 and DA:I, I would NOT like to see any PvP mode in Andromeda. I still love ME3MP despite all its imbalance and bugginess because the core gameplay is so fun, but any PvP mode tends to aggravate any imbalance and glitchiness to the point where much higher standards are required.

 

 

It wouldn't be insurmountable because it would turn everything into a min/maxing game.  "What it the minimum amount of time I can do this before I can take another action?  And what is the maximum amount of damage this deals and how do I achieve it?"

 

I'm not saying that there aren't min/maxers already here.  There are plenty of them over on the ME3MP boards.  What I am saying, however, is that once I learned that, it drained the fun out of the game for a while.  'Till I realized that this game isn't a competition.  It's about fun, not worry what to do in your next framing (read as FPS, in terms of being one frame.  Or in other terms, 1/60th of a second).

[echoness]

Believe me when it comes to PvP biotic classes are overpowered. Like rose in Garden Warfare 2 before they patched it (Now rose is useless in coop mode). Then BioWare has to rebalance biotic classes, that will definitely affect your biotic campaign playthrough and co-op playstyle. I suggest just leave it be.

[Teabaggin Krogan]

Why is Titanfall used as an example here? It's 

 

A. a crap game, and 

 

B. not built on Frostbite.....

A. It was still fun and had some dramatically entertaining moments.

 

B. I didn't say it's using frostbite but rereading my post I see that I might've come across that way. It is a pretty apt gif though to show the fun in some hardcore destructive pvp.

 

 

Maybe because it will.

Imagine people using push on other shieldless dudes over and over and over. Imagine two vaguards biotic charging each other until the end of times. Imagine people using lash over and over.

It till be extremely aggravating sooner rather than later, being pulled around like a rag doll. I'm sure most people here hate stunlock. And there you have it, just another reason.

 

It works against IA, but player vs player... people will get mad pretty quickly. That, or you will have to rebalance powers to be basically magic marshmallows dealing next to nothing of damage and not having any physical effect on the player.

 

I'd like to see more shield by-pass powers in campaign (like pull, push and so on). By-pass against armor because I believe it's stupid to have armor that somehow makes you immune to being pushed and whatnot (aka cerberus dragoons, geth flamers).

But this of course will be a huge issue in PvP based MP.

Well the basic fix would be to just switch armor with weapons. If anyone here's played the citadel dlc and played mirror match, all the shepards have armor on so that getting hit by a biotic charge or pull just staggers you. Also make stagger an entity like poise from dark souls 2 where you can control stagger based on the gear you wear, less stagger and more damage resistance with the heavier armor but with slower mobility. While light armor is prone to getting staggered more but with higher mobility etc. Mirror match was actually some of the best combat I've played in sp, so to have a better improved version for pvp with a new engine is gonna be pretty good!

 

 

Ugh... Just go play The Division or Destiny, or Titanfall, or CoD, or CS, or Battlefield, or any other PvP shooter, you have too much choice already,

no need to ruin the ME combat system with pointless PvP BS, balancing re-balancing nerfing and buffing SP abilities according to the flavor of the day and the most vocal faction on the MP forum, oh, and all the scum and villainy that comes with PvP.

 

I mean, the one thing in common in all those enthusiastic MP threads is that they are made of 95% trolling.

And you guys wonder why many people don't even want to go near MP?...

Hey, all the cool kids hang out in the Mp section yo.

[Killroy]

I don't think it would be possible to have PvP. There's simply no way to balance the powers and weapons for Horde mode and a PvP mode without making them all weaker/more similar. Maybe an asymmetric PvP mode, like Evolve or that upcoming Jason game, but standard PvP would be a nightmare to implement and make no sense from a lore/story perspective. 

[Ascari]

Nah, it will be unbalanced as ****. Imagine a vanguard player charging at your soldier character.

[Silvery]

Please no PVP, it is not necessary. Even the coop multiplayer in ME:3 and DA:I was not needed. Bioware has always done single player games, it is one of the very few developers, with some of the few game series that does not have PVP multiplayer. There is no need for tacked on PVP multiplayer in Mass Effect. 

[Eckswhyzed]

Hey, all the cool kids hang out in the Mp section yo.

Hell yeah.

As for the scum and villainy of PvP, I'd much rather read balance whining and trolling than some of the turgid stuff that the worst of story discussion throws up every now and then.

[BioWareM0d13]

Yes, we need PVP in MEA. All the plebs who think otherwise need to git gud and stop holding us all back with their scrubosity.

Spoiler

 

[LineHolder]

I'd rather ME:A MP not be as shallow and irrelevant as those games in your gifs.

 

Gameplay > pretty graphics (as much as I love pretty graphics).

[Cyonan]

The fact that you're using EA Battlefront to support your argument should suggest that it may not be the best of ideas =P

 

but really, powers in Mass Effect would be hilariously broken and make for a horrible PvP experience without revamping or even removing how some of them work.

[Fuenf789]

Now I would think, that such welcome addition, should be totally separate from Coop and SP. Like in a very controlled 3rd environment in the ark

.

Even the gameplay should be different:

• No transportable weapons from coop or sp.
• Ping speeds synced(slowed to equal out)
• Combatants wearing similiar weapons/ hand combat, determined by server on start/ or selectable by limited range
• Even the surrounding environment (artifacts/crates) must be variable (limited scale but not flat plane, variable placement), so that repetitive play do not pose an unfair advantage.
• True 1v1 so that it doesn't become mob-squads.
• There should be a channel with ring-side spectators (say minimum 10) that would *want* to spend credits to watch such match (ie not the gladiators but the spectators). (variant 2- crowdsurfer - mb those 10 can get the chance to push a "shock" button/throw in adrenaline/, they just can't decide who get's it). (variant 3 -  It can be a thunderdome streamed tap-hand event - so we can get two teams - participants lined-up in our friendlist and enter the arena one after the other...). Other non-ring side spectators can follow via stream server
• Due to balancing challenges even the characters/ similiar race should be chosen by the server - that will get people to want to become gud allrounders for coop or understand sp squad capabilities better. Roll tap (constantly refreshing to get new characters) should be prohibited.
• Where possible- the environment should pass a certification check - (flushed with server parameters between rounds)
• No mixing of platforms since the pc environment will be anyway modded after a week (ie no business case there anyway/ fair play not objectively guaranteed)
• mb even some dlc specific addon strap-on controller to get those couch potatoes up and punchin around at home.

Still it should be clear that it is an ark simulation, ie like suits / similiar to real steel , due to psyched-up teenagers in countries with easy access to real weapons.