155 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

But thinking of "the Hinterlands" as anything is confused. The Hinterlands is just a space.

The contents of the Hinterlands. Didn't think that needed to be explained. If she doesn't find doing that stuff fun in the Hinterlands, she won't find it fun in a different map.

 

 

So meaningless fights and minor content are good when you're forced to do them, and bad when you can choose which ones to do?

It's not much of a choice when everything is equivalent, you don't like any of it, and you are forced to do a lot of it. Do I kill this group of bandits or do I kill this group of demons? Do I find this ring or do I find this amulet? Etc...None of it was enjoyable for me. I play games for story, characters, and the ability to roleplay my character through dialogue and choices. I don't play for combat, reading short notes, or looking at scenery. Doing one relevant dungeon to get to the story stuff I like is well worth it (you'll note that I never complained about having to do any of the main story dungeons such as Adamant). Doing dozens (or more if you're not using a guide to tell you which ones give power and which only give influence) of boring tasks at a time with no payoff because the game forces you to fill a meter before it lets you continue the story is not fun.

 

Seriously, why do you always feel the need to argue with me about this? If you feel the random tasks are so great then explain to the OP what's great about them and where she can find the best ones. You already know my opinion on this and it's never going to change.

[Sylvius the Mad]

And what is it about the OP that makes you think they might agree with you?

Nothing.

 

What makes you think I might think that?

 

People sometimes believe things only because it never occurs to them that they have the option not to believe those things.  I'm here to present that option.

[Realmzmaster]

Though IIRC Vivienne's target requires an additional Power payment to clear a tunnel

 

That power is required if you wish to establish the camp, reach the dragon, the mosaic or just explore the area anyway.

[KaiserShep]

It's funny how people punish themselves staying in the Hinterlands for hours on end from the start when they don't want to, when doing just about anything there for a little while will quickly yield enough power to unlock the next main quest. Typically I'll just do the main things like getting rid of the Templars and mages, collect the quests for the refugees (not completed yet just adding to journal), then go to Master Dennet, which automatically puts me in the path of a few rifts and then hit Val Royeaux and then do clean up and just complete all refugee quests in one shot and get the agent at the same time. I eventually clear the board, but certainly not immediately. I prefer to have every companion I can get before In Your Heart Shall Burn before I'm done. 

[AlanC9]

It's not much of a choice when everything is equivalent, you don't like any of it, and you are forced to do a lot of it. Do I kill this group of bandits or do I kill this group of demons? Do I find this ring or do I find this amulet? Etc...None of it was enjoyable for me.

If you want to say that these choices weren't interesting, that's not an interesting thing to talk about. But the substance of your position is that it's the mere presence of the choice that makes this type of content bad. The top levels of the Brecilian ruin, and much of the forest itself, and the Deep Roads, and so much else, are exactly the same type as the content you mention above, except that every single DA:O player has to fight his way through that particular ruin, and that particular part of the Roads, and so forth. As you say, you don't object to the mandatory dungeons -- only the optional ones.

I Doing dozens (or more if you're not using a guide to tell you which ones give power and which only give influence) of boring tasks at a time with no payoff because the game forces you to fill a meter before it lets you continue the story is not fun.

Is it really hard to tell which possible actions yield Power? Can you think of something that you did for Power only to not actually get any? I can't recall ever coming up dry, but I don't spend too much time in a low-Power state since all that pesky RP stuff ends up driving my score too high to care about it.

Seriously, why do you always feel the need to argue with me about this? If you feel the random tasks are so great then explain to the OP what's great about them and where she can find the best ones. You already know my opinion on this and it's never going to change.

What, did I somehow give the impression that I was interested in changing your mind? Sorry about that.

[AlanC9]

That power is required if you wish to establish the camp, reach the dragon, the mosaic or just explore the area anyway.

True, but I thought we were talking about a player who isn't interested in those things.

[KaiserShep]

Is it really hard to tell which possible actions yield Power? Can you think of something that you did for Power only to not actually get any? I can't recall ever coming up dry, but I don't spend too much time in a low-Power state since all that pesky RP stuff ends up driving my score too high to care about it.

 

 

Not to mention that main story quests have a low power requirement. The Threat Remains only requires 4 and In Hushed Whispers/Champions of the Just requires 15. Even if you avoid a lot of map chores you're bound to have an excess. 

[Nefla]

What, did I somehow give the impression that I was interested in changing your mind? Sorry about that.

Then what's the point of trying to argue with me all the time?

 

Anyway I'm done arguing with you and I'm done explaining myself. I don't know if you're being willfully obtuse to annoy me or if you really have no idea what I'm saying in any of my posts but either way I'm done. Bye bye, continue to enjoy your random menial tasks and I will continue to hope the next game has better side quests and doesn't arbitrarily force me to do piles of the boring ones.

[Nefla]

Not to mention that main story quests have a low power requirement. The Threat Remains only requires 4 and In Hushed Whispers/Champions of the Just requires 15. Even if you avoid a lot of map chores you're bound to have an excess. 

It starts off low, but then the power requirements become 20, 30, and 50 it all adds up. I NEVER had excess because I had no interest in ANY of the "map chores" so when I wanted to progress the main story I had to go grind a bunch of these tasks that I hated.

[KaiserShep]

It starts off low, but then the power requirements become 20, 30, and 50 it all adds up. I NEVER had excess because I had no interest in ANY of the "map chores" so when I wanted to progress the main story I had to go grind a bunch of these tasks that I hated.

 

 

Well, I suppose if one has zero interest in doing anything at all, then that would be a problem since you have to do something to get there, but the baseline requirement is still rather low if you're sticking strictly to the main quest. Like, In Hushed Whispers requires 15, Crestwood requires 8, the Western Approach requires 8 to unlock and 20 to assault Adamant, 30 to attend the ball, and then 50 to hit the Arbor Wilds. Considering that one can gain in excess of 400 power in total throughout the vanilla game, that's not a whole lot. Most quests will earn 2 or more power on top of the rifts you get along the way and that's not mentioning the power farming that you can do cheaply.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Then what's the point of trying to argue with me all the time?

The audience for these discussions is much bigger than just you.

I often argue so that lurkers will get to see both sides.

[pdusen]

It starts off low, but then the power requirements become 20, 30, and 50 it all adds up. I NEVER had excess because I had no interest in ANY of the "map chores" so when I wanted to progress the main story I had to go grind a bunch of these tasks that I hated.

 

Well, yes, you have to do *something*. I generally just did a handful of the sidequests that happened to be in my path while running between story points (plus companion quests and such) and that was always more than adequate to meet power requirements.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I find the story advances too quickly unless I do side content. For example, I've never left the Hinterlands without securing horses from Dennet (because horses seem like the whole reason we're there - Mother Gisele was just as aside), and getting that done accrues plenty of Power.

[AlanC9]

Then what's the point of trying to argue with me all the time?

I discuss things I find interesting. In this particular case it's a combination of implicit assumptions and the logical consequences of the positions.

I'm still looking for a difference between closing a Fade rift and a combat encounter on the way to the mission goal, except that one is optional and the other isn't.

[AlanC9]

Like, In Hushed Whispers requires 15, Crestwood requires 8, the Western Approach requires 8 to unlock and 20 to assault Adamant, 30 to attend the ball, and then 50 to hit the Arbor Wilds.

Note that those missions also have mandatory Power gains. IHW really costs 10 since you gain 5 by completing the quest. Crestwood costs 8, but just getting to Hawke means walking past a rift worth 2 power and a camp worth 1. The Western Approach part of HltA pays 2 Power, plus one more from a camp you have to walk past. Adamant pays 6 Power, 8 if you clear the siege points on the roof.

[KaiserShep]

I find the story advances too quickly unless I do side content. For example, I've never left the Hinterlands without securing horses from Dennet (because horses seem like the whole reason we're there - Mother Gisele was just as aside), and getting that done accrues plenty of Power.

Yeah that and the Mage/Templar scuffle is my primary objective in the beginning. Everything else I work out later, partly because a number of things around the area gain approval and I'd like to have everyone available before IHW/CotJ

[Nefla]

The audience for these discussions is much bigger than just you.

I often argue so that lurkers will get to see both sides.

I respect your arguments as you give reasons for why you like to play the way you do rather than taking someone's opinion and completely twisting it into something else. "I don't like any of the non-companion sidequests, rift closing, tent pitching, etc...they are boring and have no story payoff" = "you hate choice!"   

 

I do think in a thread like this where the OP is asking a specific question "are the other zones like this" and so on, it's not helpful to try and gloss over (like some in this thread are) the fact that yes the other zones are pretty much the same and yes there are still power requirements which keep getting higher. The OP seems to share the same opinion that I do about the side content and if I were asking the question I wouldn't want subjective answers like "oh the power requirements really aren't that much, I always have spare power" or "you don't have to do any of the side content" or "oh the rest of the zones are nothing like the Hinterlands, leave the Hinterlands and it will be entirely different." I actually wish someone had told me that none of the non-companion sidequests led to anything story heavy so I wouldn't have (like the OP) wasted my time on my first playthrough doing a ton of them thinking "maybe THIS one will lead to something better."

[Nefla]

I discuss things I find interesting. In this particular case it's a combination of implicit assumptions and the logical consequences of the positions.

I'm still looking for a difference between closing a Fade rift and a combat encounter on the way to the mission goal, except that one is optional and the other isn't.

One leads directly to a story payoff and the other doesn't. It's not hard to understand. The main story areas in DA:I still have a normal amount of combat along the way (such as fighting Venatori in WEWH) like DA:O or any other RPG. The difference is that only in DA:I do you have to run around and do 4, 10, 20, 30, or 50 random boring tasks before you can even touch that main quest or dungeon. Also just because you can choose WHICH boring useless task to do does not make it optional. I'm still being forced to do boring, useless tasks, I don't care which since they are all useless and uninteresting to me (not to mention I run into way more random combat encounters doing those tasks than I would in a main story dungeon). It's like calling mage robes optional yet restricting your character to either blue mage robes or red mage robes. You can choose which color of mage robes, that makes mage robes optional right? In any case, be as obtuse as you want. From now on I'm ignoring you.

[Kabraxal]

One... Don't stick in the Hinterlands if you are already frustrated.

Two... Are you a roleplayer or prefer more defined PCs? Those who are less into RP will probably enjoy this less since it is built much more like a traditional RPG.

Three... This is a heavily lore and atmosphere driven world and game. It feeds back into the role playing by creating a much richer world that isn't wholly dependent on dialogue like other "RPGs". In fact, much of the interactive dialogue is rightly centred in the bases. There are dialogue moments in maps, but exploration and banter are much more prominent.

Basically, if you are an RP centric gamer with an appreciation of lore and exploration alongside the vast amounts of other content... Push through the frustration and look at the subtleties. If you rather a pre determined character with limited RP and limited variety in side content then just stick with The Witcher.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Yeah that and the Mage/Templar scuffle is my primary objective in the beginning. Everything else I work out later, partly because a number of things around the area gain approval and I'd like to have everyone available before IHW/CotJ

Mage/Templar also seems like a no brainer from an RP stance. If you're going to go to Val Royeaux to argue that you're not a threat to peace and order, not leaving a warzone behind you should help.

For this reason, I actually dislike the reminders Solas keeps giving me that we should go to Val Royeaux as soon as I have enough Power. Those 4 Power take almost no effort (1 is even available without leaving Haven); heading there before consolidating our position seems foolish.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Basically, if you are an RP centric gamer with an appreciation of lore and exploration alongside the vast amounts of other content... Push theough the frustration and look at the subtleties. If you rather a pre determined character with limited RP and limited variety in side content then just stick with The Witcher.

This is an excellent point. DAI and TW3 serve very different audiences.

I'm firmly in the DAI camp.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I respect your arguments as you give reasons for why you like to play the way you do rather than taking someone's opinion and completely twisting it into something else. "I don't like any of the non-companion sidequests, rift closing, tent pitching, etc...they are boring and have no story payoff" = "you hate choice!"

I do think in a thread like this where the OP is asking a specific question "are the other zones like this" and so on, it's not helpful to try and gloss over (like some in this thread are) the fact that yes the other zones are pretty much the same and yes there are still power requirements which keep getting higher. The OP seems to share the same opinion that I do about the side content and if I were asking the question I wouldn't want subjective answers like "oh the power requirements really aren't that much, I always have spare power" or "you don't have to do any of the side content" or "oh the rest of the zones are nothing like the Hinterlands, leave the Hinterlands and it will be entirely different." I actually wish someone had told me that none of the non-companion sidequests led to anything story heavy so I wouldn't have (like the OP) wasted my time on my first playthrough doing a ton of them thinking "maybe THIS one will lead to something better."

Luckily, people like you are here to do that.

More information is good.

[pdusen]

The difference is that only in DA:I do you have to run around and do 4, 10, 20, 30, or 50 random boring tasks before you can even touch that main quest or dungeon.

Hyperbolic nonsense.

[AlanC9]

One leads directly to a story payoff and the other doesn't. It's not hard to understand.

"Leads directly" because it's one of a mandatory series of obstacles on the way to that payoff, sure. Why is being railroaded into a series of fights better than choosing which fights to have? I can see thinking that it doesn't matter which, but you're saying that the railroading is better. Of course, "railroaded" is an awfully loaded word --- "constrained by the narrative," maybe?

But I'll agree with you that DAI has too much much combat. Almost all CRPGs do.(I'm not a huge fan of turn-based systems, but one of the advantages of that method is that you don't need dozens of fights to make up for each one talking only a couple of minutes.) If you want to say that DAI is even worse than other CRPGs in this regard, that's reasonable. But that's got nothing much to do with whether that content is presented in long mandadory slogs or multiple optional small tasks.

[Nefla]

Hyperbolic nonsense.

How so? Those numbers are actual power requirements for main quests.