155 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Mage/Templar also seems like a no brainer from an RP stance. If you're going to go to Val Royeaux to argue that you're not a threat to peace and order, not leaving a warzone behind you should help.
For this reason, I actually dislike the reminders Solas keeps giving me that we should go to Val Royeaux as soon as I have enough Power. Those 4 Power take almost no effort (1 is even available without leaving Haven); heading there before consolidating our position seems foolish.

Agreed. I would have also preferred some of the Power expenditure for What Pride Had Wrought to be attached to HltA and WEWH instead. I don't think it really works for the Inquisition to still be in a building phase at that point in the story.

[KaiserShep]

Mage/Templar also seems like a no brainer from an RP stance. If you're going to go to Val Royeaux to argue that you're not a threat to peace and order, not leaving a warzone behind you should help.
For this reason, I actually dislike the reminders Solas keeps giving me that we should go to Val Royeaux as soon as I have enough Power. Those 4 Power take almost no effort (1 is even available without leaving Haven); heading there before consolidating our position seems foolish.

Unless I'm mistaken, you get power just for clearing the crossroads, or at least after speaking to quest marker guy Col whatshislumps.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Unless I'm mistaken, you get power just for clearing the crossroads, or at least after speaking to quest marker guy Col whatshislumps.

Yes you do.

There's 1 Power available just from exploring Haven. There's another 2 from the rifts you could well find on your way to the Crossroads unless you're just following the map marker (which I don't think should exist, and I wish I could turn them off), and another from a camp in basically the same area. And then one from the Crossroads.

Not having at least 4 by then would take conscious effort.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Agreed. I would have also preferred some of the Power expenditure for What Pride Had Wrought to be attached to HltA and WEWH instead. I don't thinks it really works for the Inquisition to still be in a building phase at that point in the story.

I never really thought about it. In my one complete playthrough so far, I did all of the available side content before WEWH. As such, I could just run to the finish after that.

[Realmzmaster]

True, but I thought we were talking about a player who isn't interested in those things.

 

True, Point taken.

[BansheeOwnage]

I find the story advances too quickly unless I do side content. For example, I've never left the Hinterlands without securing horses from Dennet (because horses seem like the whole reason we're there - Mother Gisele was just as aside), and getting that done accrues plenty of Power.

I both agree and disagree, oddly enough. I agree that the story advances too quickly if side-content is avoided, but at the same time, I feel like there is a pretty big disconnect if Cullen tells me we need to assault Adamant immediately, before any more Wardens are turned into slaves, but then I go out to some zone and do... anything else, really. It's like how in ME3, the "Priority" missions were the ones you should do last if you want to do everything and get better outcomes from those Priority missions.

 

The only main mission I can headcanon into making sense is WEWH, because I can pretend that the ball is taking place on a specific date fairly far from when it's brought up. All of the others are time-sensitive, so taking days or weeks traveling to zones creates a disconnect.

 

As an aside: Even if you go directly to Adamant after learning about it, I don't understand how there are any wardens left. The process of binding them to demons is already underway when you find Erimond, then you have to travel all the way back to Skyhold (the Western Approach is the area furthest to the west you can go, so it's very far away), then have Josephine contact nobles to deliver trebuchets, then march an army and said trebuchets all the way back to the Approach on uneven terrain. That would take weeks! Erimond must be incredibly incompetent.

[Realmzmaster]

I both agree and disagree, oddly enough. I agree that the story advances too quickly if side-content is avoided, but at the same time, I feel like there is a pretty big disconnect if Cullen tells me we need to assault Adamant immediately, before any more Wardens are turned into slaves, but then I go out to some zone and do... anything else, really. It's like how in ME3, the "Priority" missions were the ones you should do last if you want to do everything and get better outcomes from those Priority missions.

 

The only main mission I can headcanon into making sense is WEWH, because I can pretend that the ball is taking place on a specific date fairly far from when it's brought up. All of the others are time-sensitive, so taking days or weeks traveling to zones creates a disconnect.

 

As an aside: Even if you go directly to Adamant, after learning about it, I don't understand how there are any wardens left. The process of binding them to demons is already underway when you find Erimond, then you have to travel all the way back to Skyhold (the Western Approach is the area furthest to the west you can go, so it's very far away), then have Josephine contact nobles to deliver trebuchets, then march an army and said trebuchets all the way back to the Approach on uneven terrain. That would take weeks! Erimond must be incredibly incompetent.

 

The same kind of disconnect happens in DAO. The ArchDemon casually waits for almost a whole year while the warden gathers an army. Or the party can do the Sacred Ashes quest to save Arl Eamon while letting Redcliffe be destroyed and still get an army. Where does this army come from? The party can run to the Circle Tower while a possessed boy runs amok. The party can go all over the map in DAO and Lothering will not get destroyed until the party completes one of the get an army quest. The game requires that all the armies be recruited. Why?

 

There is a disconnect in all the DA stories. The one with (IMHO) the least amount of disconnect is DA2. Time is compressed in these stories for convenience purposes. The time compression allows the hero to get there in the nick of time to save the day. If the stroy required the gamer to go to specific locations once that quest was triggered many would cry foul and that the story is railroading them to that choice without allowing the gamer input into the decision.

[thats1evildude]

To be honest, I think the Archdemon was deliberately holding back to let the Ferelden civil war rage on. If a lot of darkspawn took the field, the Bannorn might conceivably rally together under Loghain and put up a resistance. By holding back and letting them slaughter each other, the darkspawn would have an easier time of conquering Ferelden.

 

Of course, the Archdemon didn't clue into the fact that the Warden was gathering allies across Ferelden until it was too late.

[Realmzmaster]

To be honest, I think the Archdemon was deliberately holding back to let the Ferelden civil war rage on. If a lot of darkspawn took the field, the Bannorn might conceivably rally together under Loghain and put up a resistance. By holding back and letting them slaughter each other, the darkspawn would have an easier time of conquering Ferelden.

 

Of course, the Archdemon didn't clue into the fact that the Warden was gathering allies across Ferelden until it was too late.

 

Except that the darkspawn army clearly won at Ostagar and did not press the advantage especially when a great deal of the opposing army had been crushed and the rest was retreating. A good general would be out taking the ground that the enemy was leaving behind and fortifying its position for attacks at strategic locations..

[thats1evildude]

The darkspawn are not a conventional army. They don't have any need to hold territory and time will always be on their side in any prolonged conflict, as their presence corrupts the land and they can sustain any number of losses.

[pdusen]

How so? Those numbers are actual power requirements for main quests.

 

Because 1 power is not necessarily equivalent to 1 quest, and your statement ignores all of the power you accumulate completely by accident by just playing the game (which is significant, especially later on). Acting like neither of those facts matter is disingenuous.

[Realmzmaster]

The darkspawn are not a conventional army. They don't have any need to hold territory and time will always be on their side in any prolonged conflict, as their presence corrupts the land and they can sustain any number of losses.

 

Every army needs to hold territory or risk getting push back and blockaded whether it is or is not a conventional army. Being mobile and having the clear lines to be able to shuffle soldiers to and fro is essential for any army. Also holding territory denies it to the enemy who can use it as a base for attack.

[Nefla]

Because 1 power is not necessarily equivalent to 1 quest, and your statement ignores all of the power you accumulate completely by accident by just playing the game (which is significant, especially later on). Acting like neither of those facts matter is disingenuous.

True, some of them give you 2 power however my statement also ignores the power requirements for unlocking zones for the main quest and companion quests. Not to mention that a lot of the quests give influence rather than power and without a guide you don't know which is which. It's hard for people who like the side content to understand (just as it's hard for me to understand people who skip cutscenes and conversations) but being forced to do this stuff is mind numbingly boring for some of us and the game forces you to do  a LOT of it. The power requirements actively deter me from playing the game again.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The same kind of disconnect happens in DAO. The ArchDemon casually waits for almost a whole year while the warden gathers an army. Or the party can do the Sacred Ashes quest to save Arl Eamon while letting Redcliffe be destroyed and still get an army. Where does this army come from? The party can run to the Circle Tower while a possessed boy runs amok. The party can go all over the map in DAO and Lothering will not get destroyed until the party completes one of the get an army quest. The game requires that all the armies be recruited. Why?

Those don't bother me. We don't know enough about what's involved in the mustering of the darkspawn army to think anything is weird about how long it takes. The same goes for Lothering; we have no reason to expect it to be destoryed at a particular time, so any time works as well. The army is from the rest of the Bannorn. The trip to the circle tower is strange, but I also like this because it's presented as such a long shot. There's no in-game reason to expect that to work, so you'd need to be crazy to try it anyway.

It bothered me more in DAI because the writers so obviously didn't account for how long it takes to travel from place to place. A group of people could be in an area, get magically transported somewhere else, and the people who were back at the first place have somehow appeared in the second place for no reason.

[BansheeOwnage]

It bothered me more in DAI because the writers so obviously didn't account for how long it takes to travel from place to place. A group of people could be in an area, get magically transported somewhere else, and the people who were back at the first place have somehow appeared in the second place for no reason.

Sort of like how your advisors and companions are all back at Skyhold after WPHW even though you used an eluvian to get there instantly? Shouldn't Cullen stay with the army regardless? And how said army never returns to Skyhold until after you defeat Corypheus, no matter now much side-questing you do in between missions. So there is another disconnect.

[Sylvius the Mad]

-snip-

Yes. The advisors are back, amd it's not like the game just populated Skyhold normally. The advisors know what happened there. The only way to explain it is if we were stuck inside that eluvian for weeks.

[thats1evildude]

Every army needs to hold territory or risk getting push back and blockaded whether it is or is not a conventional army. Being mobile and having the clear lines to be able to shuffle soldiers to and fro is essential for any army. Also holding territory denies it to the enemy who can use it as a base for attack.

 

But that's not how the darkspawn operate. They don't shuffle troops. They don't have supply lines. They flow like a wildfire, going where the Archdemon leads.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But that's not how the darkspawn operate. They don't shuffle troops. They don't have supply lines. They flow like a wildfire, going where the Archdemon leads.

Does the archdemon overcommit his forces before he has amassed enough numbers?

Also, what you've described isn't the only way darkspawn can operate, as we see in Awakening.

[AlanC9]

I never really thought about it. In my one complete playthrough so far, I did all of the available side content before WEWH. As such, I could just run to the finish after that.

That's the optimal approach (problems with the advisors and so forth getting back aside.) The context for the missions is that it should be a run to the finish at that point. And if you're going to have that sort of context, the game systems should support it rather than undermining it. This is the flip side of your earlier point about getting to Val Royeaux too easily.

I'm more sanguine about the game letting you do any number of side missions after your return from the Arbor Wilds. Dopey, sure, but if a player thinks it's dopey he can just finish the game without doing more side missions.

[Eelectrica]

The same kind of disconnect happens in DAO. The ArchDemon casually waits for almost a whole year while the warden gathers an army.

I know I absolutely hate time limits in games. if my warden wants to plant crops in Redcliffe for 5 years then that's what I'll do. Archy can just wait like good lad until I'm good and ready. Same with Cory.
They can pace back and forth and look at their sundials for all I care.

The original Fallout had a stupid time limit system too until it was either modded or patched out or both- don't remember I know it's gone now.

[AlanC9]

I know I absolutely hate time limits in games. if my warden wants to plant crops in Redcliffe for 5 years then that's what I'll do. Archy can just wait like good lad until I'm good and ready. Same with Cory.
They can pace back and forth and look at their sundials for all I care.
The original Fallout had a stupid time limit system too until it was either modded or patched out or both- don't remember I know it's gone now.

Yeah, FO1 getting nerfed is the big dividing line between the hardcore RPGs of the Good Old Days and the dumbed-down weaksauce we get now. Modern players can't handle anything that demanding.

(/sarcasm.... unless I was being serious.)

Anyway, this battle is over for anything that's being marketed as an "RPG."

[Realmzmaster]

But that's not how the darkspawn operate. They don't shuffle troops. They don't have supply lines. They flow like a wildfire, going where the Archdemon leads.

 

In DAO and Awakening the darkspawn operate in what was akin to a conventional army. The darkspawn appear to be organized enough to equip weapons and armor passing what is not needed to others. Emissaries are intelligent enough to use magic and command troops. DAO also had darkspawn generals who commanded troops. So yes the darkspwan were operating like a conventional army. The darkspawn had commanders just like regular armies. Riordan was able to sense the generals and tell the warden how many were in the vicinity.

 

The groups of darkspawn also came in different compositions. Holding territory denies the enemy the use of it and provides a staging area. Notice that the leaders were smart enough to send a force to Redcliffe as a feint as the main horde headed for Denerim

 

The darkspwan may be a wildfire, but they are an organized wildfire with the ArchDemon as supreme commander..

[Realmzmaster]

I know I absolutely hate time limits in games. if my warden wants to plant crops in Redcliffe for 5 years then that's what I'll do. Archy can just wait like good lad until I'm good and ready. Same with Cory.
They can pace back and forth and look at their sundials for all I care.

The original Fallout had a stupid time limit system too until it was either modded or patched out or both- don't remember I know it's gone now.

 

I am not in favor of time limits. I find it incredulous that the darkspwan win at Ostagar, but do not press the advantage. The darkspawn should have been in hot pursuit of the remnants of the Ferelden army to wipe it out. After that proceed to crush, kill and destroy everything in sight.

[KaiserShep]

And the darkspawn need a place to store all their fleshy sacks and human skulls. That and they have to make their jagged weapons and stitch their raggedy armor someplace. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm more sanguine about the game letting you do any number of side missions after your return from the Arbor Wilds. Dopey, sure, but if a player thinks it's dopey he can just finish the game without doing more side missions.

100% correct.  If a player chooses to play in a way that makes that player unhappy, that player should perhaps examine his decision-making process.