50 réponses à ce sujet

[Kirk377]

If you were in control of Dragon Age lore, would you keep the griffons extinct? In 'Last Flight' griffon eggs are found in a cave. I don't think they should go back on their own lore. They also went back on the lore with tranquils, now tranquils are able to be cured. This minimizes the horror that the Rite of Tranquility was. It was a kind of brutal mental and spiritual rape that mages faced as a horrific possibility. Now it can simply be undone. -, I also feel that bringing griffons back is a mistake. I personally would keep griffons extinct. As cool as it may be to see them, it would be more impactful for them to represent a tragic loss to the Darkspawn. Bringing them back would, again, minimize the impact of their tragic extinction. ----The world of Dragon Age is my favorite in all of gaming, I just wished they followed their own lore more closely sometimes. Changing the lore can sometimes be for the better, but these are just two examples I feel hurt the overall impact of the story. How do you feel? Thank you

[sniper_arrow]

If you were in control of Dragon Age lore, would you keep the griffons extinct? In 'Last Flight' griffon eggs are found in a cave. I don't think they should go back on their own lore. They also went back on the lore with tranquils, now tranquils are able to be cured. This minimizes the horror that the Rite of Tranquility was. It was a kind of brutal mental and spiritual rape that mages faced as a horrific possibility. Now it can simply be undone. -, I also feel that bringing griffons back is a mistake. I personally would keep griffons extinct. As cool as it may to see them, it would be more impactful for them to represent a tragic loss to the Darkspawn. Bringing them back would, again, minimize the impact of their tragic extinction. ----The world of Dragon Age is my favorite in all of gaming, I just wished they followed their own lore more closely sometimes. Changing the lore can sometimes be for the better, but these a two examples I feel hurt the overall impact of the story. How do you feel? Thank you

 

It would depend on where the story will take them. As far I see it, Valya would still keep griffons as a secret. Other than that, that Grey Warden civil war we heard in DAI may affect what will happen to them.

[vertigomez]

Nah, that was such an 'oh shiiiii-' moment in Last Flight that I think they've earned the right to live.

I am a merciful god.

[Ghost Gal]

No way, I want those fluff-feathers to come back.

 

If just so Merrill can finally get her pet griffon named "Feathers."

[vertigomez]

No way, I want those fluff-feathers to come back.
 
If just so Merrill can finally get her pet griffon named "Feathers."

Oh my god, and Isabela can finally become a griffon-wrangler! I'm sold. Where the pet shop at?

[Kirk377]

Maybe it would be cool if they only found one griffon egg. Which would obviously make it the last griffon and they would still basically be extinct. Not to mention the fact that the 13 griffons they found would still fall to the Darkspawn taint right? That's why they went extinct to begin with. So maybe these new found griffons wouldn't be used to fight Darkspawn at all.

[Typhrus]

Well there was only one clutch of Griffon eggs, so even if they are brought back into the story line, there still isn't much prospect for their future. As for the Darkspawn taint, that is unclear, because the original reason for the downfall of the Griffons was blood magic. A case of something that can be disastrous for humans with shades of grey (note, I don't really like blood magic, but don't think it is inherently evil either), went to the catastrophic extreme of things going downhill very quickly for an animal. Of course this is fantasy and they brought back dragons that were supposedly extinct

The Tranquil thing isn't as clear cut as your making it. Once 'cured' of this state, all the repressed emotional expressions and feelings come flooding back all at once and even after that, they still appear to be hyper emotive. Little things make them feel emotions that before being made tranquil they wouldn't have batted an eyelid at. In effect, because this is so hard to contain, they may actually be at more risk of damaging their surrounds or possession because of this. So its not really soo much as a boon, but another thing that can cause issues with mages. To be fair, it seemed that the Templars were abusing their right to make mages tranquil, it was more implied in Orlais than actually shown (unlike DA2), otherwise one suspects that Lord Seeker Lambert and Templar hierarchy wouldn't have acted in such a manner as they did. This was one of the underlying causes for the Mage-Templar conflict.

Anyway, the way that the lore of the Dragon Age universe has been set up, in many ways resembles our own. It is very messy and full of inconsistent and even contradictory information being presented to both in-universe scholars and the consumer who is playing the game. This is why I'm hesitant in most cases to call changes in lore 'retcons' unless it was completely obvious that some event was going in a certain direction. In this way, Sten and Iron Bull don't directly contradict each other when talking about the Qun as they are apart of separate branches of their government/religion. I'd argue that Bull presents a more nuanced, if a still slightly scary version of the Qun where the 'bad' things have not been washed under the carpet. It is really up to the person playing the game to sift what is 'right' or 'wrong' with the information given, this also changes with each new book/comic and game that is released. Even if some of those products may not be 'canon' in your game world, some of those events happen regardless (like Hawke releasing Cory, even if you did not play Legacy in DA2).

[GoldenGail3]

*images my Hawke seeing a Griffin, falling in love with one, and stealthy leaving with it before the Wardens noticed...*

[Patricia08]

I have no idea what they look like but i would say no way they should come back 

[Secret Rare]

Maybe it's silly,but i  think that the griffins are extinct because Bioware can't afford to develop an engine for flying mounts

[Kakistos_]

Well there was only one clutch of Griffon eggs, so even if they are brought back into the story line, there still isn't much prospect for their future. As for the Darkspawn taint, that is unclear, because the original reason for the downfall of the Griffons was blood magic. A case of something that can be disastrous for humans with shades of grey (note, I don't really like blood magic, but don't think it is inherently evil either), went to the catastrophic extreme of things going downhill very quickly for an animal. Of course this is fantasy and they brought back dragons that were supposedly extinct

The Tranquil thing isn't as clear cut as your making it. Once 'cured' of this state, all the repressed emotional expressions and feelings come flooding back all at once and even after that, they still appear to be hyper emotive. Little things make them feel emotions that before being made tranquil they wouldn't have batted an eyelid at. In effect, because this is so hard to contain, they may actually be at more risk of damaging their surrounds or possession because of this. So its not really soo much as a boon, but another thing that can cause issues with mages. To be fair, it seemed that the Templars were abusing their right to make mages tranquil, it was more implied in Orlais than actually shown (unlike DA2), otherwise one suspects that Lord Seeker Lambert and Templar hierarchy wouldn't have acted in such a manner as they did. This was one of the underlying causes for the Mage-Templar conflict.

Anyway, the way that the lore of the Dragon Age universe has been set up, in many ways resembles our own. It is very messy and full of inconsistent and even contradictory information being presented to both in-universe scholars and the consumer who is playing the game. This is why I'm hesitant in most cases to call changes in lore 'retcons' unless it was completely obvious that some event was going in a certain direction. In this way, Sten and Iron Bull don't directly contradict each other when talking about the Qun as they are apart of separate branches of their government/religion. I'd argue that Bull presents a more nuanced, if a still slightly scary version of the Qun where the 'bad' things have not been washed under the carpet. It is really up to the person playing the game to sift what is 'right' or 'wrong' with the information given, this also changes with each new book/comic and game that is released. Even if some of those products may not be 'canon' in your game world, some of those events happen regardless (like Hawke releasing Cory, even if you did not play Legacy in DA2).

 

The Griffons have a very bright future. Their survival was inspired by the Norwegian Lundehund, a dog breed that at one point only had six members left of which five where from the same mother. Thanks to careful breeding they now number in the thousands. The next Blight, assuming it doesn't happen for at least another Age, will be met by Wardens riding an army of Griffons once again.

 

As for lore I completely agree. Expanding upon concepts and revealing previously unknown facts or history are not retcons. The way lore is set up in Dragon Age is that is is given to us through the lens of biased, non-omniscient in-game individuals and books written by such individuals from various cultures, Ages and perspectives. You can't just take what one person says as gospel, you have to experience the game as a whole and talk to everyone to truly get a concept. And then STILL it could turn out that everyone who thought they knew what they were talking about was completely wrong and I kinda love that.

[Kantr]

Where in the lore did it say Tranquils couldn't be cured?>

[Medhia_Nox]

What are griffons like? 

Are they semi-sapient like the Mabari? 

[IllustriousT]

I am all for the return of the griffons, but hopefully the Grey Wardens do not repeat past transgressions that could harm them. I am in a love/hate relationship with the Wardens right now, so I am not sure if they or who should be trusted with the griffons. They wouldn't free them, they would most certainly use them, and after the Wardens intense need to do ANYTHING to end blights (Clarel and Isseya) - I am just not sure if the griffons SHOULD return - if only to spare me the eventual heartache. But...flying around on one...or even meeting one in the wild would be...WOW!

 

 

The physiology of the griffon can be found on the Wiki site:

 

http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Griffon

[vertigomez]

What are griffons like? 

Are they semi-sapient like the Mabari?

They're described as "partners and equals" and iirc they can defy their rider's judgment if they read a situation as too dangerous.

[Medhia_Nox]

@vertigomez:  And they were slaughtered to serve the Warden's fear?  

Then yes, I want them back... I want them to turn against the Wardens after learning why they're the only ones remaining... and I want them to become allies with whatever comes "next". 

 

I'm gonna go with bonding with Chasind and Avvar. 

[The Baconer]

@vertigomez: And they were slaughtered to serve the Warden's fear?

The Fourth Blight was going very poorly, so one of the Grey Wardens devised a method of putting the Griffons through the Joining. This made them "immune" to the Blight like Wardens, and also made them exceptionally stronger. It also made them rabid, and so blood magic was not only required in the ritual's application (IIRC), but also afterward to keep them under control. Somehow this manifested in a quasi-magical infectious sickness, which managed to even infect the Griffons that were set aside for breeding.

The recently-discovered clutch had the Blight drawn out of them by the Grey Warden who came up with the Griffon Joining, and was placed in magical stasis.

[Medhia_Nox]

@The Baconer:  And did these rabid, blood magicked Grey Warden Griffons save Thedas? 

 

Or did they find another way to stop the very dangerous Fourth Blight?

[The Baconer]

@The Baconer: And did these rabid, blood magicked Grey Warden Griffons save Thedas?

Or did they find another way to stop the very dangerous Fourth Blight?

They heavily damaged and immobilized the Archdemon so that the Wardens on normal Griffons could finally kill it.

[Medhia_Nox]

@The Baconer:  Interesting, I'm not looking for you to recap the story... I should just read it, but if they went through the Joining shouldn't they be able to kill the Archdaemon?

 

I think they should have just force conscripted all of Thedas if the war was going so badly - man I hate the Wardens.  

 

I still hope these griffons totally abandon the Wardens. 

 

Blights aren't what they used to be... the Fifth one was stopped with high school cliches. 

[Kirk377]

Well there was only one clutch of Griffon eggs, so even if they are brought back into the story line, there still isn't much prospect for their future. As for the Darkspawn taint, that is unclear, because the original reason for the downfall of the Griffons was blood magic. A case of something that can be disastrous for humans with shades of grey (note, I don't really like blood magic, but don't think it is inherently evil either), went to the catastrophic extreme of things going downhill very quickly for an animal. Of course this is fantasy and they brought back dragons that were supposedly extinct

The Tranquil thing isn't as clear cut as your making it. Once 'cured' of this state, all the repressed emotional expressions and feelings come flooding back all at once and even after that, they still appear to be hyper emotive. Little things make them feel emotions that before being made tranquil they wouldn't have batted an eyelid at. In effect, because this is so hard to contain, they may actually be at more risk of damaging their surrounds or possession because of this. So its not really soo much as a boon, but another thing that can cause issues with mages. To be fair, it seemed that the Templars were abusing their right to make mages tranquil, it was more implied in Orlais than actually shown (unlike DA2), otherwise one suspects that Lord Seeker Lambert and Templar hierarchy wouldn't have acted in such a manner as they did. This was one of the underlying causes for the Mage-Templar conflict.

Anyway, the way that the lore of the Dragon Age universe has been set up, in many ways resembles our own. It is very messy and full of inconsistent and even contradictory information being presented to both in-universe scholars and the consumer who is playing the game. This is why I'm hesitant in most cases to call changes in lore 'retcons' unless it was completely obvious that some event was going in a certain direction. In this way, Sten and Iron Bull don't directly contradict each other when talking about the Qun as they are apart of separate branches of their government/religion. I'd argue that Bull presents a more nuanced, if a still slightly scary version of the Qun where the 'bad' things have not been washed under the carpet. It is really up to the person playing the game to sift what is 'right' or 'wrong' with the information given, this also changes with each new book/comic and game that is released. Even if some of those products may not be 'canon' in your game world, some of those events happen regardless (like Hawke releasing Cory, even if you did not play Legacy in DA2).

Well I wouldn't say they rectoned  the lore either, they just opened up the story to change what we previously thought was a fact. (after all, we never knew for sure if griffons were extinct) Though not rectons or even contradictions I still feel some changes kinda hurt the story. I have actually given it more thought and have jumped on board with the return of the griffons. As long as they remain rare and are not as effective against darkspawn like they were in the past. I don't want the threat of the darkspawn to be less than it is if that makes sense. I never was against the idea of previously thought extinct species returning, the dragon returned and that worked out great for the story, - I was just worried if Griffons rise again it will take away from the darkspawn threat. I also liked the idea of them being a thing of the past which made them almost majestic figures. But like I said, I'm onboard after giving it more thought. (I'm excited to see what happens next) I'm like that with big story-altering revelations, it took me a while to warm up to Flemeth being Mythal lol. Now I think Flemeth being Mythal is a great revelation that adds to the lore as well as the character of Flemeth. But big story changes can also drastically hurt a series (Star Child from Mass Effect 3, I just ignore his explanation for the Reapers in my canon) Thankfully Dragon Age hasn't let me down yet. Though I'm still not onboard with the tranquil thing. I would have liked it if they made it a temporary fix - have the emotions resurfacing for a while but eventually the connection to the Fade would once again. . . fade-away, and they would be tranquil again. I don't like a permanent fix that minimizes the horror of tranquility. [BTW you mentioned that having tons of emotions coming back at once drives them mad, which makes it almost just as bad, but forgive if I'm wrong, - but I was under the impression that the over the top emotions would eventually pass? It's been a while since I've read Asunder, which I never even fully finished reading.] But anyway, I've rambled on enough, thank you for your response.

[The Baconer]

@The Baconer: Interesting, I'm not looking for you to recap the story... I should just read it, but if they went through the Joining shouldn't they be able to kill the Archdaemon?

I think they should have just force conscripted all of Thedas if the war was going so badly - man I hate the Wardens.

I still hope these griffons totally abandon the Wardens.

Blights aren't what they used to be... the Fifth one was stopped with high school cliches.

They probably could have, but I think by a certain point every Joined Griffon at the battle had been killed. So, it was up to Garahel to deliver the killing blow.

One of the reasons the Blight was going so poorly (well, actually the biggest rwason why) was the fact that the various kingdoms simply didn't care until the Blight was at their doorstep, and by the time it would get that bad they'd be pretty much laid low. Conscription can only be as useful as the nations allow it to be.

[wright1978]

No griffons are a great opportunity. I loved reading about them in last flight. They most certainly shouldn't be made extinct again.

[Gervaise]

Pharamond didn't live long enough to establish whether his emotions would have eventually returned to "normal", whatever that might be; he might have been a highly emotional person before being made tranquil.   What was clear was that he didn't want to be made tranquil again and preferred death to that fate.

 

As for the griffons, they probably did make the difference in all the Blights prior to the 5th one, which when you read about the length and difficulty of the previous ones, sort of explains why people kept saying it wasn't a real Blight.      The problem was always going to be getting the archdemon into a position where it would be vulnerable and that is difficult when it can fly away from you.   It was Riorden jumping on its back and injurying it before being thrown off that I believe caused it to land on the roof of the castle where we could get to it.    There was an awful lot of luck involved in ending the 5th Blight so quickly.    Still, so long as there is not a Blight on the horizon then I don't think the Wardens should have them.   Once they are old enough and able to fend for themselves, they should simply be released into the wild.  

 

I wonder how griffons view dragons generally?   Would they attack them for entering their air space or would they feel it expedient to withdraw?    With the return of the dragons to Thedas, I do wonder if that is the reason for reintroducing the griffons as well, so there is something to counter enemy controlled dragons.    I also wonder what their relationship was the ancient elves, since it seems highly likely that such a hybrid animal was the result of one of Ghilan'nain's experimental breeding programmes.  

[Dai Grepher]

Yes. If nothing else than to make traveling time more believable. But if the Veil opens up and things start floating again, then griffons will be needed.