50 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

@The Baconer:  Interesting, I'm not looking for you to recap the story... I should just read it, but if they went through the Joining shouldn't they be able to kill the Archdaemon?

 

I think they should have just force conscripted all of Thedas if the war was going so badly - man I hate the Wardens.  

 

I still hope these griffons totally abandon the Wardens. 

 

Blights aren't what they used to be... the Fifth one was stopped with high school cliches. 

Spoiler

The attempt at a griffon Joining was made with good intentions, however misguided the attempt was.  Griffons swallowing darkspawn blood was a very real danger, and they're as vulnerable to the taint as any other living thing.  This was an attempt to keep such griffons alive and healthy, reminiscent of the herbs Ash Warriors used on mabari who contract the taint.

 

The thing is, griffons can't abide the taint AT ALL, and previous attempts at a Joining have only resulted in griffons killing themselves as they literally tear themselves apart to try and expel the taint from themselves.  The blood magic was to get them to accept the taint as just another disease.

 

It worked, but with unanticipated side effects.  The taint progressed much faster in a griffon than a human (shortening thier lives even further than a human) , and granted them vastly greater strength and endurance.  It also made them "rabid"  They were filled with rage at pretty much everything, even their own riders, and required blood magic to control.  As such, the ritual was very rarely used.

 

Several dozen were made towards the end of the Fourth Blight when things got really bad in the Free Marches.  And they were instrumental in bringing down Andoral.  But at the same time, their lack of control frakked up the order of battle to begin with. (they were supposed to pull back so ground troops could cover them and help bring down the archdemon.  Instead they slipped control and charged headlong, and, though they inflicted grievous injuries n the archdemon, ultimately allowing Garahel to slay it, they all died along with their riders)

 

After the Blight ended, it was discovered that somehow, the completely psychological sickness the rabid griffons thought they had seemed to become very real, and swept through all the aeries, even those which had no Joined griffons.  With these griffons turning on the Wardens, they were forced to be put down.  Dooming the griffons to extinction, save for a single clutch which was secretly purified, put into stasis and hidden away,even from the Grey Wardens.

 

As to whether they should be brought back?  I see no reason not to

[Gago]

I like griffons. 

[Smudjygirl]

Well, Dragons were also extinct and now they're everywhere.

 

The right of Tranquility is still horrific, even if it can be reversed. But they've been going back on all the Lore established since 2. But it's in their right to do so if they so wish. Personally i was in awe when the revelations about the Dread Wolf came to light.

 

If they revealed griffins being alive in a way that makes sense, why not? Even in the real world we are constantly finding species we thought extinct. So there could be Griffons that we don't know about somewhere in Thedas.

[Heimdall]

At some point in the future, though maybe not the next game. If the next Blight happens, it could be interesting to see them resurge and have us use them.

[Heimdall]

*Double Post*

[Knight of Dane]

I hope this going to be a tragic temporary revival. I'm annoyed that some Thedosian legends can't just stay legends. In a bit we will get to meet Emperor Drakon and Archon Hessarian alive in game 4 too.

[vertigomez]

Wynne's going to be rolling in her grave.

[Iakus]

I hope this going to be a tragic temporary revival. I'm annoyed that some Thedosian legends can't just stay legends. In a bit we will get to meet Emperor Drakon and Archon Hessarian alive in game 4 too.

Except griffons aren't legends.  They are creatures who actually lived, and who died out (or were thought to have) five hundred years ago.  The only thing that really makes them special is their ties to the Grey Wardens.  Otherwise they're basically big, winged mabari.

 

Besides which, even assuming nothing bad happens to the new ones, it's gonna be a long, long time before they build their numbers enough that anyone would dare risk them in combat.

[Almostfaceman]

This minimizes the horror that the Rite of Tranquility was. It was a kind of brutal mental and spiritual rape that mages faced as a horrific possibility. Now it can simply be undone.

 

I don't think you paid attention to all the problems they bring up with "undoing" Tranquility. It hardly makes the whole experience less horrific. 

[Qun00]

Wynne's going to be rolling in her grave.

I only want to play DA4 if there are griffons in it.

[Almostfaceman]

If you were in control of Dragon Age lore, would you keep the griffons extinct? In 'Last Flight' griffon eggs are found in a cave. I don't think they should go back on their own lore. They also went back on the lore with tranquils, now tranquils are able to be cured. This minimizes the horror that the Rite of Tranquility was. It was a kind of brutal mental and spiritual rape that mages faced as a horrific possibility. Now it can simply be undone. -, I also feel that bringing griffons back is a mistake. I personally would keep griffons extinct. As cool as it may be to see them, it would be more impactful for them to represent a tragic loss to the Darkspawn. Bringing them back would, again, minimize the impact of their tragic extinction. ----The world of Dragon Age is my favorite in all of gaming, I just wished they followed their own lore more closely sometimes. Changing the lore can sometimes be for the better, but these are just two examples I feel hurt the overall impact of the story. How do you feel? Thank you

 

One of the things I love about Thedas is it is a world still being explored. Pioneers are still essential. So, when one culture or one point of view says "X", there's always a possibility they're wrong. Or half-right. Or three quarters right. Or one quarter right. Or five sixteenths right. 

 

If you didn't get from reading the codex in the first two games that the codex could be wrong... sorry. But that was the impression Bioware wanted you to have. I think they wanted us to feel like we could still "discover" Thedas. 

 

So finding out that the griffins are not really extinct is superduperfantasticalicious. In my humble opinion. 

 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Almostfaceman:  Problem with that is... it's no accomplishment at all for the author to keep you in the dark.  You literally have no means of discovering anything in Thedas.  

 

So when you're told two different things... it's simply just a mess.  

 

It's like reading a mystery novel... and the writer putting in no clues that Mr. Higgens the gardener was the killer... and then just "revealing" it at the end of the novel out of the blue. 

 

That's not a "mystery" you didn't "discover" it... there was no puzzle to put together... you just had to wait to be corrected.

 

That being said... I actually don't care enough about griffons to care whether or not they come back.

 

But Thedas is the land of easily reversible bad choices... which is its most fantastical element of all. 

[Kakistos_]

Well I wouldn't say they rectoned  the lore either, they just opened up the story to change what we previously thought was a fact. (after all, we never knew for sure if griffons were extinct) Though not rectons or even contradictions I still feel some changes kinda hurt the story. I have actually given it more thought and have jumped on board with the return of the griffons. As long as they remain rare and are not as effective against darkspawn like they were in the past. I don't want the threat of the darkspawn to be less than it is if that makes sense. I never was against the idea of previously thought extinct species returning, the dragon returned and that worked out great for the story, - I was just worried if Griffons rise again it will take away from the darkspawn threat. I also liked the idea of them being a thing of the past which made them almost majestic figures. But like I said, I'm onboard after giving it more thought. (I'm excited to see what happens next) I'm like that with big story-altering revelations, it took me a while to warm up to Flemeth being Mythal lol. Now I think Flemeth being Mythal is a great revelation that adds to the lore as well as the character of Flemeth. But big story changes can also drastically hurt a series (Star Child from Mass Effect 3, I just ignore his explanation for the Reapers in my canon) Thankfully Dragon Age hasn't let me down yet. Though I'm still not onboard with the tranquil thing. I would have liked it if they made it a temporary fix - have the emotions resurfacing for a while but eventually the connection to the Fade would once again. . . fade-away, and they would be tranquil again. I don't like a permanent fix that minimizes the horror of tranquility. [BTW you mentioned that having tons of emotions coming back at once drives them mad, which makes it almost just as bad, but forgive if I'm wrong, - but I was under the impression that the over the top emotions would eventually pass? It's been a while since I've read Asunder, which I never even fully finished reading.] But anyway, I've rambled on enough, thank you for your response.

 

Normally I would agree. My biggest pet peeve with various movie, book and game series is the sudden change and often mutilation of established facts. It like the writers were bored and were like: "Welp I'm out of ideas. HEY! lets destroy that concept our fans really like!". Dragon Age however is different. The very premise of the first game and indeed the namesake of the series and the period of time in which it is set "Dragon Age" is named such because Dragons, previously thought to be extinct, reappear. It is predicted that the Dragon Age will be an Age of violence, upheaval and change.

 

The first game sets the groundwork for all the changes to come. The dissension between Mages and Templars, the hovering Qunari, The Dread Wolf, Corypheus, all the seeds were planted and have since grown by design not random changes and retcons. Even with the Tranquil it was stated very clearly that the details to the rite of Tranquility were a mystery.

[Marika Haliwell]

I want griffons!!! "D

[Knight of Dane]

Except griffons aren't legends.  They are creatures who actually lived, and who died out (or were thought to have) five hundred years ago.  The only thing that really makes them special is their ties to the Grey Wardens.  Otherwise they're basically big, winged mabari.

 

Besides which, even assuming nothing bad happens to the new ones, it's gonna be a long, long time before they build their numbers enough that anyone would dare risk them in combat.

They became legends when they died out. They became a myth when they were no longer around, I think even Duncan or Flemeth calls them mythological or something, that was my point. I just dislike that everything that's "history" in the games lore has to be revived in some way.

[Almostfaceman]

@Almostfaceman:  Problem with that is... it's no accomplishment at all for the author to keep you in the dark.  You literally have no means of discovering anything in Thedas.  

 

So when you're told two different things... it's simply just a mess.  

 

It's like reading a mystery novel... and the writer putting in no clues that Mr. Higgens the gardener was the killer... and then just "revealing" it at the end of the novel out of the blue. 

 

That's not a "mystery" you didn't "discover" it... there was no puzzle to put together... you just had to wait to be corrected.

 

That being said... I actually don't care enough about griffons to care whether or not they come back.

 

But Thedas is the land of easily reversible bad choices... which is its most fantastical element of all. 

 

That's just silly. There are definitely things being set in concrete as we move along in the story. Where'd the Veil come from? Got the answer. Did the humans conquer the elves? Got the answer. I could go on. 

[Donquijote and 59 others]

I don't understand why they tainted the griffins to kill Andhoral,they didn't needed to do this for Dumat which was more stronger than Andhoral....

[Donquijote and 59 others]

. 

 

That's not a "mystery" you didn't "discover" it... there was no puzzle to put together... you just had to wait to be corrected.

 

 

This sum up Dragon age

[Medhia_Nox]

@Almostfaceman:  You SURE those are set in concrete are you?  I'm holding you to those.  

 

BTW.... we were told the Maker created the Veil and that the humans did conquer the elves.

 

And then, we were corrected.  I'm glad you found these things to be big revelations. 

 

I'm one of the people that believed the elves did what happened to them to themselves LONG before MotB hinted it and it turns out I was right... but that's because I thought it would be a suitable plot twist (and because I hate the Dalish)... not because there's any real indication in the games. 

[random_michan]

I like griffons.  Getting a griffon mount in DA4 would be awesome!

 

I was kinda happy to find out that Tranquility can be reversed (but at what cost?).

 

I like finding out that not everything I've been told (or read about) necessarily have to be true. Makes it more like real life, I guess?

 

--

Edit: grammar fix

[Toasted Llama]

I'm torn on yes or no.

 

 

Yes, because griffons are f***ing awesome!

 

 

No, because don't resurrect everything that's awesome. You end up with a dull, 'death doesn't mean anything' type of world. Kinda like Game of Thrones, but then the complete opposite, where you don't want to care about any characters because they'll be fine either way.

[KaiserShep]

I approve of griffons coming back, mainly because griffons are my favoritest mythical creature, but also because it's a big world with room for people to be wrong. Look at the coelacanth. It was killed by marine darkspawn ages ago and it came back in all its fleshy finned glory.

[straykat]

I'd like them back. It'd also make dragon fights cooler.

 

That's assuming Bioware wants to make a good action game. I don't know if they do.

[Tidus]

Yes! Let the Griffons fly again! 

[Kakistos_]

I don't understand why they tainted the griffins to kill Andhoral,they didn't needed to do this for Dumat which was more stronger than Andhoral....

 

We don't actually know if Dumat being more powerful than Andhoral is fact and not just legend. As for the Griffons, the Wardens and thus their partnership with Griffons was very new during the First Blight and as they existed in perpetual war, building up their numbers during any sort of peace time was not an option. They probably didn't have the numbers to risk taking on Dumat in such a way. Also, as I understand it, the Griffons were only subjected to the Taint  when they were already fated to die. The Wardens respect the Griffons too much to simply throw their lives away. I don't think that particular ritual was even known during the First Blight.