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Mages in Inquisition


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#76
Phoe77

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1) Mages in Thedas are not Wizards and they do not use spellbooks or grimoires for battle. So I have no idea where you got the notion that mages in Thedas keep a spell list in a grimoire.

 

2) Every mage in the game including Vivienne and Dorian use this new neutered spell classification system even though it makes no sense for them do to do.

 

3) No one is going to care ? I care. People who want a consistent game with consistent lore instead of sensationalist nonsense care.

 

4) Also, where are the Creation and Entropy spells in the base game ? You mention that they are somehow there but I don't see it. Healing is gone. Enhancements is gone. We have no Paralysis or Repulsion Glyphs. We have no Hexes. FFS, where are the Earth and Nature spells ? You would think a Mage Lavellan would know how to do it, being the First of their Clan. Even Neria, the Keeper in multiplayer doesn't know spells from the Keeper specialization.

 

5) Doesn't even exist in the game's universe. Then why do they exist in the Codex and it is part of a treatise written by a former First Enchanter. They are not merely gameplay elements, they are part of the lore. If it is simply a gameplay element we would not have First Enchanters giving lectures and writing treatises about this. That makes no sense.

 

Talk about performing mental gymnastics and grasping at straws to justify the neutering of mages and magic. :sick:

 

1.)  Well the Inquisitor's outfits do feature a book attached to his waist.  But really I didn't mean to imply that grimoires are required for spellcasting.  What I was implying is that it wouldn't matter if he categorized his spells according to arcane school or primary effect or any other criterion so long as he was still aware of the philosophy behind sorting magic into those schools.  This is all hypothetical anyway because the categorization we see in the ability screen probably doesn't exist in the actual world of Dragon Age anyway. 

 

2.)  That's because that spell classification is a gameplay element and in no way reflects the official way that magical academics would sort spells.  The spells are presented that way for the benefit of the player and there's no reason to believe that that presentation is indicative of some kind of massive shift in magical theory.  

 

3.)  You shouldn't care because it doesn't at all contradict any lore whatsoever.  No normal person in the universe of Dragon Age is going to care if the Inquisitor or any other mage sorts spells based on his or her own criteria in their private documents.  Doing so doesn't mean that they're not aware of any other classification system or that any other such system is no longer used.  

 

4.)  I never once said that spell schools were as well represented as abilities for controllable mages.  I said that those schools and the effects that are found within them still exist as ideas.  To answer your question though, Haste was a creation spell in Origins and it's still in the game.  Healing has traditionally been creation as well, though healing abilities that are available to our mages tend to involve spirits so that probably falls under the Spirit school.  Nevertheless, traditional methods of magical healing still exist even if our own mages can't use them.  Fear spells were traditionally in Entropy if I remember correctly, and those are available as specs.  I'm not suggesting that they're as prevalent in this game, but the schools still do exist and spells of those schools still function.

 

5.)  Spell schools exist as an idea in the game universe.  The categorization system that was used to sort spells on the ability screen in Inquisition likely does not exist as an idea in the game universe.  If it doesn't then there's absolutely no justification for your retcon complaints.  

 

Perhaps I didn't present everything as clearly as I could have, but I don't think I'm twisting things very much in support of my stance.  I just think don't think that we should shout "retcon!" based on things in the pause menu.



#77
Bayonet Hipshot

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*snip*

 

If spell schools are just a gameplay mechanic, then why is it addressed in the Codex ? Why do we have First Enchanters writing treatises about it ? Most importantly, why is this "gameplay mechanic" Codex listen under Magic and Religion whereas actual gameplay mechanic codex like Spell Combinations have their own sections ?
 

Why should Creation and Entropy spells be locked behind specializations for the Inquisitor but available for the Warden and the Champion without specializing ? Does this mean that mage Inquisitors are inherently inferior, less magically capable than mage Wardens and mage Champions ? As for healing, the same query stands. Why do mage Wardens and mage Champions can have access to healing magic but mage Inquisitors cannot ? This can only mean that the mage Inquisitor is inferior and weaker to mage Wardens and mage Champions. The other two can use any and all forms of magic but Inquisitor is restricted. Accept the reality:- Mage Inquisitor is a mere nobody weakling who cannot even perform all forms of magic.

 

The categorization of magic into schools does exist for real in Thedas. When you enter the Ferelden Circle of Magi in DAO in Witch Hunt DLC, there were books in the library about entropic schools of magic and destruction schools of magic as well as mages having a fan war over which school is the best.


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#78
Kakistos_

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Bayonet Hipshot is right. The various Schools of Magic have been enshrined in lore since day one. They are among the first things you learn about the world in the Mage Origin in DA:O. They are not retconned just because one game in the series so far has screwed up on that front. The unfortunate state of Magic in DA:I is just another example of gameplay/lore segregation. We didn't see any Blood Magic either, that doesn't mean it has ceased to exist.


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#79
Shechinah

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We didn't see any Blood Magic either, that doesn't mean it has ceased to exist.

 

Especially since the Inquisitor can discuss it with Solas, the latter of which will expand upon how blood magic can be used including for non-harmful purposes such as healing.
 


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#80
BansheeOwnage

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Why should Creation and Entropy spells be locked behind specializations for the Inquisitor but available for the Warden and the Champion without specializing ? Does this mean that mage Inquisitors are inherently inferior, less magically capable than mage Wardens and mage Champions ?

Half-serious answer:

 

Actually, yes, I couldn't help but get the impression that the mage Inquisitor was not a great mage, at least compared to Hawke or The Warden.

 

Still, this doesn't help explain why Dorian, Solas, and Vivienne, not to mention enemy mages, also can't access these previously-basic skills.



#81
vbibbi

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Half-serious answer:
 
Actually, yes, I couldn't help but get the impression that the mage Inquisitor was not a great mage, at least compared to Hawke or The Warden.
 
Still, this doesn't help explain why Dorian, Solas, and Vivienne, not to mention enemy mages, also can't access these previously-basic skills.


I could headcanon Dorian and Solas as using a different system than Circle mages, but there's no real reason for Vivienne. Of course, we can also ask why the Warden and Champion didn't use barrier, since that's a helpful spell. Unless it's a tweaked version of the armor spells.

#82
Bayonet Hipshot

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Half-serious answer:

 

Actually, yes, I couldn't help but get the impression that the mage Inquisitor was not a great mage, at least compared to Hawke or The Warden.

 

Still, this doesn't help explain why Dorian, Solas, and Vivienne, not to mention enemy mages, also can't access these previously-basic skills.

 

Because Amell, Surana and Hawke are superior to Solas, Dorian, Vivienne, Trevelyan, Lavellan and Adaar. :P



#83
vertigomez

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I'm curious how Adaar came about their spellset. The codex says "a mage among the Tal-Vashoth" tutored them. That's about it.

#84
thesuperdarkone2

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I'm curious how Adaar came about their spellset. The codex says "a mage among the Tal-Vashoth" tutored them. That's about it.

There are tal-vashoth mages that can use regular spells and aren't sarebaas. You fight two if you decide to kill Marjolaine in DAO. Here's a picture:

http://vignette1.wik...=20130321141523


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#85
vertigomez

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There are tal-vashoth mages that can use regular spells and aren't sarebaas. You fight two if you decide to kill Marjolaine in DAO. Here's a picture:
http://vignette1.wik...=20130321141523


Oooh, interesting! Thanks for that. I still wonder where they picked it up, though. Do random apostates tutor Tal-Vashoth and Vashoth? Has there ever been a single giant grey person in a Circle?

Time to bust out ye olde formidable headcanon.

#86
vbibbi

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Oooh, interesting! Thanks for that. I still wonder where they picked it up, though. Do random apostates tutor Tal-Vashoth and Vashoth? Has there ever been a single giant grey person in a Circle?

Time to bust out ye olde formidable headcanon.

I would think that the Vashoth were trained by apostates in return for their protection and services. Because even before the Vashoth gained control over their abilities, their intimidating presence to people who had never seen a Qunari and their formidable size and strength would be useful for an apostate on the run.


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