177 réponses à ce sujet

[Chris724]

So I have an awesome headcanon I came up with for a fanfic: My Dalish Warden is going to join Solas in his plan to bring back the old world. The reasons are too many to post right now, but there's one snag I keep hitting. I know Solas plans to tear down the veil and bring back the world of the Ancient Elves. I know humans will die as a result, but what about the modern elves? Considering that they can see differently in the crossroads, and considering that they're all starting to join him, I'm thinking that it won't kill them, rather it will restore them to what they were in the past. I know he says the same thing to an elven inquisitor, but you can rationalize that to mean that their modern way of life will die. To be honest, his plan only makes sense if the elves will live, because if EVERYONE is destroyed, then no one is left to benefit from his plan. The world is restored, but no one is there to benefit. How does that make sense?

[Krypplingz]

Yes the modern elves will die. They are not HIS people. His people are more like Abellas and his crew (who see your elf as a shem). So the ancient elves like Abellas might survive. But the modern elves, human, dwarves, qunari, nugs and Fennec will burn in the coming chaos. Or something like that. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Yes the modern elves will die. They are not HIS people. His people are more like Abellas and his crew (who see your elf as a shem). So the ancient elves like Abellas might survive. But the modern elves, human, dwarves, qunari, nugs and Fennec will burn in the coming chaos. Or something like that. 

Then one wonders why so many elves go to join Solas' army

[AntiChri5]

Then one wonders why so many elves go to join Solas' army

Have you seen the lives of elves in modern Thedas?

 

I doubt Solas is being up front about the whole "you are gonna die" thing. Look at how he recruited Briala by proxy, through Felassan.

[dawnstone]

So I have an awesome headcanon I came up with for a fanfic: My Dalish Warden is going to join Solas in his plan to bring back the old world. The reasons are too many to post right now, but there's one snag I keep hitting. I know Solas plans to tear down the veil and bring back the world of the Ancient Elves. I know humans will die as a result, but what about the modern elves? Considering that they can see differently in the crossroads, and considering that they're all starting to join him, I'm thinking that it won't kill them, rather it will restore them to what they were in the past. I know he says the same thing to an elven inquisitor, but you can rationalize that to mean that their modern way of life will die. To be honest, his plan only makes sense if the elves will live, because if EVERYONE is destroyed, then no one is left to benefit from his plan. The world is restored, but no one is there to benefit. How does that make sense?

Honestly, Solas thinks that there will be a lot of death and destruction, but knowing how his plans go, while it may be devastating I personally don't think removing the Veil is going to wipe out every lifeform on Thedas. Also, since this is not exactly something that has ever been done before, no one can know what the true outcome will be.

 

You're writing a fanfic, and nothing has been set in stone by canon. The predicted outcome by many fans, is that the elves will suffer the same fate as the rest, as we do not know Solas' plans for them. But this is your story, and you can choose how you want things to go down.  

[AresKeith]

Then one wonders why so many elves go to join Solas' army

 

We only know about the elves we see in Trespasser 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Then one wonders why so many elves go to join Solas' army

Just because he told us that doesn't mean he tells them that. 

[PapaCharlie9]

Just because he told us that doesn't mean he tells them that.

It does add up: we know Solas can lie through his teeth without blinking an eye, and manipulate on a grand scale -- I mean, he tried to make a patsy out of Coryphish, for Maker's sake! So telling a story of freedom and vengeance to a bunch of oppressed modern elves would be child's play for TD Wolf.

But ... I just don't know. It seems too pat. It also seems too obvious of a c-hink in the plot armor for the heroes of DA4 to use against Solas. Convince the duped modern elves he's a lying bastard and poof, there go his useful idiots.

At the very least, why not save modern elven mages? Better yet, elven non-Dalish apostate mages? They clearly have a connection to the Fade and they clearly reject all the degenerate culture he hates so much: the Chantry, the Templars, the Circle, the Dalish. Add elven non-Dalish Warden mages (what's left of them, the ones that weren't craven morons anyway) -- what could he possibly have against them? They are not HIS people, but so what? Wisdom spirits aren't his people either, but he sure likes them.

 

Unless ...

Hilarious that the forum censorware doesn't like "****** in one's armor".

[Joe25]

I think Solas just wants everyone dead. His plan so far is to kill the physical word and use the power from it to make a big bang effect in the Fade. I think he wants to press the reset button. 

 

The modern elves on Solas's side I do not think will see the new word. If this story goes how I think it will, it will be like Moses and journey to the promised land. Solas doesn't want the modern elves, he wants the children's children so he can make it as close to the old world he once knew.    

[DomeWing333]

I don't think it's a matter of who Solas likes or dislikes. Even though he doesn't exactly care for much of it, he doesn't want the world to burn in chaos (really could have sugar-coated it a bit more there)--it's just a necessary side effect of his plan to tear down the Veil.  If there were a way to make the ancient elven world possible again without mass-death, I'm sure he would probably be all for it. But as it stands, it doesn't matter if you're an elf, dwarf, human, or even his friends: everyone is fair game so long as the ancient elves get their free magic wifi back.

[Lazarillo]

At the very least, why not save modern elven mages? Better yet, elven non-Dalish apostate mages? They clearly have a connection to the Fade and they clearly reject all the degenerate culture he hates so much: the Chantry, the Templars, the Circle, the Dalish. Add elven non-Dalish Warden mages (what's left of them, the ones that weren't craven morons anyway) -- what could he possibly have against them? They are not HIS people, but so what? Wisdom spirits aren't his people either, but he sure likes them.

This is something I've wondered about, too.  We don't really know what humans, for example, were like before the Veil (or if they even existed)...would the magic that sustained Elves at the time do the same thing for human Mages?  The pre-Veil world sounds like a world that was naturally shaped by imagination, which is what the Mages of the current Thedas do already (albeit on presumably a more limited scale).  Similarly, no need for them to fear possession, since spirits can travel from one plane to the other unimpeded.

 

To that end, I don't think Solas really wants to kill anyone.  He just recognizes that whatever he's planning to do will cause mass casualties.  And he must clearly have a plan to ensure that at least some people survive, since without minds to shape it, the world he creates will be just as desolate as he sees the current one.  On the other hand, since death weakens the Veil, he may be intended to create some sort of massive disaster across a large segment of Thedas, which could cause the Veil to be not just weakened but ripped open.  Few would survive, and those who did would face a drastically different world, fulfilling his promise that the current world must be destroyed.  But it wouldn't, strictly speaking, end everything.

[Qun00]

Not a single word changes when he's speaking to a Dalish elf. He still makes a clear distinction between his people and yours.

Then one wonders why so many elves go to join Solas' army

Ignorance and despair. Nothing suggests they've been invited at all.

[vertigomez]

So I have an awesome headcanon I came up with for a fanfic: My Dalish Warden is going to join Solas in his plan to bring back the old world. The reasons are too many to post right now, but there's one snag I keep hitting. I know Solas plans to tear down the veil and bring back the world of the Ancient Elves. I know humans will die as a result, but what about the modern elves? Considering that they can see differently in the crossroads, and considering that they're all starting to join him, I'm thinking that it won't kill them, rather it will restore them to what they were in the past. I know he says the same thing to an elven inquisitor, but you can rationalize that to mean that their modern way of life will die. To be honest, his plan only makes sense if the elves will live, because if EVERYONE is destroyed, then no one is left to benefit from his plan. The world is restored, but no one is there to benefit. How does that make sense?

You assume that his plan is to benefit other elves, when really it's to benefit his nostalgia.

[Voidinist]

Since he says the same thing to a Dalish elf Inq, then yes, they will burn. He's manipulating the city and Dalish elves into helping him. Which I find just hysterical considering he is literally playing the role of the tales the Dalish spun of him.

 

Really, though, his people are likely that of spirits who became elves. In Trespasser, Cole says "He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face." And in the Deepest Fade codex, an ancient elf refers to spirits as their "brethren of the air". Then there's Mythal's body-hopping and the established lore that believing in spirits/their concepts makes them more powerful which is why Falon'Din wanted worshipers so badly.

 

Whether or not spirits will even survive the return of the original status quo to restore the ancient elven race is anyone's guess. Solas will probably die alone.

[katerinafm]

As far as I can tell pretty much everyone will die except for the few ancient elves left that are probably either asleep or hidden in places like the temple of mythal.

 

If you think about it too hard the more Solas appears to be more insane than a guy with a plan for his people. Everything will be a mess and a handful of ancient elves scattered around will be able to rebuild his empire? Doesn't make much sense. Which is weird because his presentation gives the impression that the game and writers don't want you to see him as insane. Either there's a plot hole or we're missing some context.

[Medhia_Nox]

@katerinafm:  When you consider Solas as a spirit... everything makes perfect sense.  And I don't believe suggesting he is... is grasping at straws (doesn't mean it's correct either of course).

[Qun00]

@katerinafm: When you consider Solas as a spirit... everything makes perfect sense. And I don't believe suggesting he is... is grasping at straws (doesn't mean it's correct either of course).

Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way.

Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths.

[vbibbi]

You assume that his plan is to benefit other elves, when really it's to benefit his nostalgia.

Confirmed, Solas is a metaphor for BSN

[TheKomandorShepard]

In case of elves i would consider it mercy kill, and well dalish will get what they wanted "good" old days will be restored and their gods freed.  

[PapaCharlie9]

his people. Everything will be a mess and a handful of ancient elves scattered around will be able to rebuild his empire? Doesn't make much sense. Which is weird because his presentation gives the impression that the game and writers don't want you to see him as insane. Either there's a plot hole or we're missing some context.

My theory for the missing context is this: Tearing down the Veil will be catastrophic, but not instantaneously. It's more the side-effects, like spirits/demons running loose and settling old scores, that will do most of the killing and destruction. Abominations and such. Or "ordinary" people suddenly acquiring the powers of a mage. That's going to be a lethal situation, to be sure, but it won't happen overnight and it won't necessarily wipe everyone out.

Solas, in his usual condescending way, doesn't believe that modern degenerate people can survive in a world with no separation from the Fade. But what if he's underestimating the ability of modern peoples to adapt?

It wouldn't be the first time he underestimated somebody.

So I'm betting on arrogance/bigotry/snobbery rather than insanity.

[Medhia_Nox]

Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way.

Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths.

 

And?  Are we saying Solas doesn't lie from the moment you meet him to the moment he takes away the Mark?  Seriously?  

 

The point being... even Cole calls himself a human during the course of the game.  

 

And Corypheus tries to bind him... and can't. 

 

Cole was a spirit - that became flesh and blood.

 

I believe so too did the Evanuris and Solas and took on elven forms. 

[Master Warder Z_]

In case of elves i would consider it mercy kill, and well dalish will get what they wanted "good" old days will be restored and their gods freed.

Agreed.

[vbibbi]

My theory for the missing context is this: Tearing down the Veil will be catastrophic, but not instantaneously. It's more the side-effects, like spirits/demons running loose and settling old scores, that will do most of the killing and destruction. Abominations and such. Or "ordinary" people suddenly acquiring the powers of a mage. That's going to be a lethal situation, to be sure, but it won't happen overnight and it won't necessarily wipe everyone out.Solas, in his usual condescending way, doesn't believe that modern degenerate people can survive in a world with no separation from the Fade. But what if he's underestimating the ability of modern peoples to adapt?It wouldn't be the first time he underestimated somebody.So I'm betting on arrogance/bigotry/snobbery rather than insanity.

I would actually really like DA4 to end with the Veil being torn down and a kind of reset of the world order occur. Kind of like Synthesis...if actually done with forethought and in a logical manner. Have any subsequent games let everyone have magic to so,e degree, as we already see with the quasi-magical abilities warriors and rogues have in DAI (mark of death, tremor, etc)

But yeah have Solas' arrogance prevent him from realizing that while there will be chaos, it won't be world ending chaos and modern people will still adapt and survive.

[Qun00]

As far as I can tell pretty much everyone will die except for the few ancient elves left that are probably either asleep or hidden in places like the temple of mythal.

If you think about it too hard the more Solas appears to be more insane than a guy with a plan for his people. Everything will be a mess and a handful of ancient elves scattered around will be able to rebuild his empire? Doesn't make much sense. Which is weird because his presentation gives the impression that the game and writers don't want you to see him as insane. Either there's a plot hole or we're missing some context.

Solas didn't say anything about populating the Earth. It isn't a priority.

And? Are we saying Solas doesn't lie from the moment you meet him to the moment he takes away the Mark? Seriously?

The point being... even Cole calls himself a human during the course of the game.

And Corypheus tries to bind him... and can't.

Cole was a spirit - that became flesh and blood.

I believe so too did the Evanuris and Solas and took on elven forms.

So you're telling me he would lie to Cole. The one person nobody can lie to.

[Master Warder Z_]

if actually done with forethought and in a logical manner.

Ha!