177 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Here's a thought:

 

Magic was common back in the time of the Evanuris.  Then the Veil came up, and it became far more rare, to the point where Solas sees the world as being full of tranquil.

 

So...what if bringing the Veil came back down again?  Does this mean everyone will become a mage again?  Will spirits and people be able to intermingle freely?  Remember the conversation Solas has with the Inquisitor about such a world back in Haven, with the Veil gone.  He thinks it would be a paradise.

 

But imagine the havok it would cause.  People suddenly with magic powers and zero training.  Interacting with spirits and demons with no idea how to act around them.  Reality itself may be reshaped based on people's thoughts.

 

My suspicion is only people who can adapt really, really quickly, or who already had training around magic (mages, templars,  a few others with training concerning the Fade) would be likely to survive.  Not even all of them, really.  Everyone else will be trapped on Altair IV  It would be a slaughter.

 

I don't think so. When we travel to the Crossroads, the elves and non-elves experience it differently (see below) and this is intentional. It is not about being a mage. It is about being an elf - whatever type of being they were originally. The shimmering sky is something that seems to be a part of the Fade - Solas asks Sera if she sees it viewing the Breach. And look at how the tree looks, and how (I believe) the Inquisitor does not collapse at first crossing over. I wager that this world, to a true Elvhen, would look incomprehensibly different. 

 

[In Exile]

Why do so many Shemlen follow leaders who will take them over a cliff? Rage, Envy, Disgust, Depression. Perhaps they don't believe THEY will die. If you're an elf, and there is nothing ahead for you and your descendants but what they have now, why not join the cause? Perhaps they believe they can turn Solas from his goal at the last minute. What was it Flemeth said in Origins, "Perhaps he believes they are an army he can out-maneuver."  Except I don't believe they know. They only want to fight back. If they do know that their world is going to end, they want to be certain the Shemlens go with them.

Solas is not above using people. He hints that his role as a rebel leader may not have been quite so clean-cut as his followers believed, and there are moments, especially when he talks politics or organizations, were we see a much darker side of his personality. He is far more ends-justifies the means that people give him credit for throughout the game - he just happens to be kind, in a way, and so approves of doing good on a small scale. And that's also consistent with Trespasser, where he wants to stop the Qunari even as he plots the ruination of all the world. 

 

All of this is to say, who's to say he isn't just using to and lying to the elves. 

[The Ascendant]

Solas' plan won't just kill the Elves, it will kill everyone. It is basically a Thedas version of the Biblical flood. A giant reset button. I imagine that he has lied to his elven supporters about the truth of what will happen, he isn't above sacrificing and manipulating others. The only ones I imagine who will willingly aid him are the spirits and demons that he can coax to his side. A chance to enter the physical world permanently? I can think of a few demons who would love that idea. I think that Flemeth has a few contingency plans in place and resources that Solas will use to aid him. Don't forget about the Silent Grove and it's stock of dragons. A world where dragons rule the sky and free from hunters? I reckon they would like that.

[Inkvisiittori]

I'm sure some elves would willingly follow Solas even if they knew what his plan was. "There are worse things than dying." And the elves are already dying. It's unnatural. A world where they can once again be immortal and rule the world? Sounds like a cause worth dying for. 

[Iakus]

I don't think so. When we travel to the Crossroads, the elves and non-elves experience it differently (see below) and this is intentional. It is not about being a mage. It is about being an elf - whatever type of being they were originally. The shimmering sky is something that seems to be a part of the Fade - Solas asks Sera if she sees it viewing the Breach. And look at how the tree looks, and how (I believe) the Inquisitor does not collapse at first crossing over. I wager that this world, to a true Elvhen, would look incomprehensibly different. 

 

 

But the Crossroads are not part of the Fade.  It's something like a pocket universe created by the elvhen to link the eluvians.  So it makes sense that elves are more at ease there.

[Master Warder Z_]

Can we all agree that 'elvhen' is the stupidest term in universe?

 

.-.

 

I mean is elves not good enough for those pointy eared freakjobs? And the fact that it just means elves just makes it stupider in my eye, its like erm, whats a apt comparison here...I think the Mayans thing is apt here, what with Maya and Mayan both being proper phrasing for the grouping but both being employed.

 

._.

[Iakus]

Can we all agree that 'elvhen' is the stupidest term in universe?

 

.-.

 

I mean is elves not good enough for those pointy eared freakjobs? And the fact that it just means elves just makes it stupider in my eye, its like erm, whats a apt comparison here...I think the Mayans thing is apt here, what with Maya and Mayan both being proper phrasing for the grouping but both being employed.

 

._.

Meh, I just think of it as a term fro an old people that no longer really exists.

 

I mean the Ferelden people don't call themselves "Clayne" or "Alamarri" anymore.

[Contraire]

Can we all agree that 'elvhen' is the stupidest term in universe?

 

.-.

 

I mean is elves not good enough for those pointy eared freakjobs? And the fact that it just means elves just makes it stupider in my eye, its like erm, whats a apt comparison here...I think the Mayans thing is apt here, what with Maya and Mayan both being proper phrasing for the grouping but both being employed.

 

._.

 

You... do realize it's a word chosen by the devs, right? And as such the "pointy-eared freakjobs" have no responsibility on it being used in the game? Or existing at all?

[Qun00]

The Elvhen are all but extinct. Aside from Abelas and the few stragglers under his command should he live, what other Elves could Solas be referring to saving? How could he possibly hope to sustain a viable population with the few Elvhen left alive? No. When Solas refers to "the people" he is referring to Elves in general just as Flemeth/Mythal did.

You assume Mythal's temple is the only place left?

Solas: "There are other places, friend. Other duties. The People yet linger".

[Kakistos_]

You assume Mythal's temple is the only place left?

Solas: "There are other places, friend. Other duties. The People yet linger".

 

Abelas: "'Elvhen' such as you?"

 

Abelas, not aware of Solas' identity, was clearly referring to Dalish and City Elves. Again, "The People" refers to Elves in general and Abelas did not originally see himself as one of them: “"Our" people? The ones we see in the forest, shadows wearing vallaslin? You are not my people.” - Abelas

[Qun00]

Pfff... Abelas doesn't acknowledge the Dalish as real elves at all. Strange that you would choose the line where he spells that out as evidence to the contrary.

And who is to say he didn't recognize Solas and just kept it to himself? You can notice the difference in treatment. Abelas speaks to him with respect.

[Master Warder Z_]

You... do realize it's a word chosen by the devs, right? 

 

Of course, and its stupid.

[Iakus]

Abelas: "'Elvhen' such as you?"

 

Abelas, not aware of Solas' identity, was clearly referring to Dalish and City Elves. Again, "The People" refers to Elves in general and Abelas did not originally see himself as one of them: “"Our" people? The ones we see in the forest, shadows wearing vallaslin? You are not my people.” - Abelas

And Solas expressly does not see City elves as his people.  Bringing up Briala to him after Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts makes that abundantly clear.

[AresKeith]

Abellas would survive. Elves like Sera will die.

 

That's kinda why I want to appear as an antagonist if the player spared him in DAI

[Kakistos_]

And Solas expressly does not see City elves as his people.  Bringing up Briala to him after Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts makes that abundantly clear.

 

This is true but "The People" refers to Elves. What other Elves could he possibly be referring to? Solas put his plan in motion long before he even knew Abelas and the others still existed. During the epilogue with Flemeth, Solas refers to "The People" again. I doubt he was referring to the group of Elves he just found out were still alive.

[In Exile]

But the Crossroads are not part of the Fade. It's something like a pocket universe created by the elvhen to link the eluvians. So it makes sense that elves are more at ease there.

I am of the view that what we see as the "Fade" as a place is nothing more than an elven pocket dimension that Solas happened to stuff what was known as the Fade before in. Basically, the Veil didn't just separate out to realities - it split on reality into two, by throwing part of it into an elven pocket dimension.

This explains all that we see in the physical fade: including actual physical floating masses of land that parallel exactly the type of design we see in the crossroads, but with greater ruin. And remember that when the Fade leaks out into the "real" world, we get the same effect as inside the Fade - floating rocks and a greenish hue.

I think the Crossroads and other pocket dimensions are small echoes of the world that was, places that relied on what the Fade used to be to exist and that were shattered when Solas stole it away. It fits with everything we learn about the elves.

[Qun00]

"The People" only holds that far reaching meaning when spoken by modern elves.

If Flemeth is more open-minded and supports that definition, that is because she has been part of the world for centuries. Solas woke up last year and his mind still is knee deep in Arlathan.

[In Exile]

This is true but "The People" refers to Elves. What other Elves could he possibly be referring to? Solas put his plan in motion long before he even knew Abelas and the others still existed. During the epilogue with Flemeth, Solas refers to "The People" again. I doubt he was referring to the group of Elves he just found out were still alive.

The People refers to all elves - it's what the racist old ancient elves called themselves, because of course they divided the world into "people" and "other". Remember to Solas, "what we once were" is the driving force of his existence. He's trying to save what the elves were. He hasn't accepted that this world is "real" in that way, the same way Dorian and the Inquisitor don't accept bad future Leliana ad "real". They acknowledge she's a person, but the Leliana to them (well, the Inquisitor) is the earlier version. Turning back the clock and erasing the bad future from existence is "saving her".

[Mistic]

Pfff... Abelas doesn't acknowledge the Dalish as real elves at all. Strange that you would choose the line where he spells that out as evidence to the contrary.

And who is to say he didn't recognize Solas and just kept it to himself? You can notice the difference in treatment. Abelas speaks to him with respect.

 

Interesting. Until I read theories here, I always interpreted that scene as Abelas deriding Solas (the "Elvhen such as you?" sounded mocking, not respecting to me), and Solas being forced to defend himself.

 

It felt in character for him, since he was keen to remind a Dalish Inquisitor that he didn't like it when Dalish look down on him for not being a true Elvhen. It does bother him, and it happens already in Haven with a Dalish Inquisitor. For all his words about not considering himself part of elfdom (at least not the current version of elfdom), when other elves look down on him he gets defensive quickly.

[In Exile]

I think Solas gets defensive because of how insulting it is to be told, essentially, a nonsensical myth from his POV about the people he lost (and whose loss he caused). That he sacrificed everything to save the elves and didn't just fail, but have his vile and tyrannical enemies, the Evanuris, remembered as gods and worshipped while his name is actually a curse has to cut deep.

[Master Warder Z_]

 when other elves look down on him he gets defensive quickly.

 

Its pretty humorous actually.

[Kakistos_]

The People refers to all elves - it's what the racist old ancient elves called themselves, because of course they divided the world into "people" and "other". Remember to Solas, "what we once were" is the driving force of his existence. He's trying to save what the elves were. He hasn't accepted that this world is "real" in that way, the same way Dorian and the Inquisitor don't accept bad future Leliana ad "real". They acknowledge she's a person, but the Leliana to them (well, the Inquisitor) is the earlier version. Turning back the clock and erasing the bad future from existence is "saving her".

 

So Solas is putting his genocidal plans into motion for no reason? When he says "The People need me" he is obviously referring to Elves in general. Solas was not one of Evanuris, and fought for "The People's" freedom. Solas is not in a time loop in which he can just prevent his nightmare future from happening like the Inquisitor and Dorian In Hushed Whispers, that comparison is absurd. Solas can never bring back what was lost, the culture, the people are dead, he knows this and lives with it. On top of that he must destroy the current world in order to restore The People to a semblance of what they were and he regrets this. Here are his own words:

 

"My People fell for what I did to strike the Evanuris down. but still, some hope remains for restoration. I will save the Elven people, even if it means this world must die." - Fen'Harel

 

Here Solas is clearly referring to modern Elves in general. Who else could it be? It was not years AFTER he put his plans in motion did he even know that Abelas and the others were still alive.

[Qun00]

Wrong. The -player- only just found out about surviving ancient elves. Solas may be referring to other forgotten places, similar to Mythal's temple.

And again, the Trespasser dialogue is unchanged with a Dalish elf. He still says "The return of MY people means the end of YOURS."

[Tidus]

Of course we are  assuming  B-W will make another DA game after DA4-if they even make a DA4.. They seem to have a case of lockjaw over any DA:4 announcements.

[MisterJB]

More importantly, should we kill modern elves?