177 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

More importantly, should we kill modern elves?

well if they join up with Solas....

[Vit246]

well if they join up with Solas....

 

If you wish to give them a further incentive to join Solas, then by all means, kill them.

Its like you humans have never heard of things like self-fulfilling prophecy and vicious cycles.

[Tidus]

IMHO, "Your people will die" applies to Shemlin inquisitors not Elven inquisitors..

 

Why would Solas kill his own people?

[AresKeith]

IMHO, "Your people will die" applies to Shemlin inquisitors not Elven inquisitors..

 

Why would Solas kill his own people?

 

Because they're not his people? 

[In Exile]

So Solas is putting his genocidal plans into motion for no reason? When he says "The People need me" he is obviously referring to Elves in general. Solas was not one of Evanuris, and fought for "The People's" freedom. Solas is not in a time loop in which he can just prevent his nightmare future from happening like the Inquisitor and Dorian In Hushed Whispers, that comparison is absurd. Solas can never bring back what was lost, the culture, the people are dead, he knows this and lives with it. On top of that he must destroy the current world in order to restore The People to a semblance of what they were and he regrets this. Here are his own words:

"My People fell for what I did to strike the Evanuris down. but still, some hope remains for restoration. I will save the Elven people, even if it means this world must die." - Fen'Harel

Here Solas is clearly referring to modern Elves in general. Who else could it be? It was not years AFTER he put his plans in motion did he even know that Abelas and the others were still alive.

You're misunderstanding the point, and what Solas views as truly elven. What the elves were is what he wants to save. If what you got out of Hushed Whispers is a time loop, you missed the main point Leliana made: that the world is only "artificial" to you because you didn't live it and refuse to accept it. That Solas can't recreate his culture doesn't mean he views the present culture as "real" - Cole spells it out repeatedly.

What he lost isn't the culture - he rebelled against it. He all but admits he used his people as tools when he denies his status as just a rebel. He wants to save what the elves were - the kinds of beings they were. The line you quote spells it out really plainly.

"My People fell" doesn't mean their culture died. It means their nature changed. Think of the metaphor fall - e.g. angels falling from heaven. "Some hope for restoration" is about undoing the fall - the fall being the changed nature. Listen to all the things Solas ever talks about to the Inquisitor - the elves magic, their crystal spire cities, the way spirts were when there was no Fade -this is what he wants to save.

[Vit246]

IMHO, "Your people will die" applies to Shemlin inquisitors not Elven inquisitors..

 

Why would Solas kill his own people?

 

He says the same thing to all types of inquisitors though I suspect its because Bioware had originally written the protagonist as a human.

[AresKeith]

He says the same thing to all types of inquisitors though I suspect its because Bioware had originally written the protagonist as a human.

 

Or it's because...

 

Because they're not his people? 

[Medhia_Nox]

What does it mean by "Kill modern elves"?  

- Utterly change their nature?  Then yes.

 

- Put them in harms way to further his plans?  Then yes. 

 

- Wipe them out entirely?  No.  Of course Bioware wouldn't do this - whether Solas intends to do that?  I don't think he cares.  

[Master Warder Z_]

What does it mean by "Kill modern elves"?  

- Utterly change their nature?  Then yes.

 

- Put them in harms way to further his plans?  Then yes. 

 

- Wipe them out entirely?  No.  Of course Bioware wouldn't do this - whether Solas intends to do that?  I don't think he cares.  

 

That funky logic sure is popular among some folk.

 

I mean world ruining event and all, and people argue semantics when the nutjob himself has said, he is going to end the world, and instead of taking him literally you try to find figurative meaning in it.

 

Your trying to turn a colony drop into a cultural exchange.

 

o.o

 

I mean even if the event itself doesn't result in a mushroom cloud, it will probably kill the majority of people, sure technically I guess you could argue if it isn't literally invoking the death, it isn't a 'world killing event' although I'd go for murder logic where if you put people into a scenario where they will be killed, your still guilty of murder.

[Hellion Rex]

More importantly, should we kill modern elves?

If we can show them the truth, then no. If they won't listen, I don't see a way around it, unfortunately. I feel like we are at an impasse. This is on much a grander scale than simple petty racism. The world could literally burn to the ground if we screw this up.

[Steelcan]

If you wish to give them a further incentive to join Solas, then by all means, kill them.

Its like you humans have never heard of things like self-fulfilling prophecy and vicious cycles.

what vicious cycle?  Kill their ring leader, kill the majority of the followers, there won't be an uprising again for a while.

[The Baconer]

We'll just have to keep killing elves until we can figure out what's going on.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Master Warder Z:  Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine. 

You clearly haven't read any of my rantings about Solas and/or the elves and their fate.

 

My point...is that... "Does annihilation even matter?"  People are arguing whether he's going to make the elves extinct.  Who cares... it's factual he's going to kill plenty of them... and isn't that bad enough. 

[Mistic]

Your trying to turn a colony drop into a cultural exchange.

 

Ah, but that's the problem of having different types of "destruction of the world", isn't it? There's no shortage of Zion apologists in the Gundam universe either when a colony drop is involved ("Come on, it's bad, but it's a perfectly logical military tactic and it won't really destroy the planet!"), while a complete planetary destruction ("the Death Star says hello") is harder to swallow. People want Solas to mean the former, not the later.

[Gervaise]

Please do not suggest killing all modern elves in order to stop Solas.   For a start off not all modern elves support him; my Lavellan doesn't for a start off.   I will be extremely disappointed if the writers end up making it a case of the world against the elves, particularly since Solas has made it clear which elves he thinks are the real ones.   I'd want to be able to have the opportunity of showing the poor suckers who have started to follow him just how much he is using them and then give them a proper alternative, other than simply dumping them back in the former status quo of second class citizens.   I'd like to think that at least some elves would reject him straight off either because they see through his rhetoric and realise they will die too or simply because they see his actions as immoral and evil.

 

Still, I'd draw your attention to the song about the elves in Trespasser.   It speaks of mercy for the elves and then has the refrain "when the slightest unite then a giant will rise", so may be that is a hint from the writers that it will be an major elven uprising with Solas at their head but to further his agenda.    I must admit that if he could unite even all the city elves and elven slaves in Thedas (without the Dalish or ancient elves) then that would amount to a pretty sizeable army considering that there are meant to be 10,000 city elves in Val Royeaux alone.

[MisterJB]

But that is exactly it. Even dismissing the idea of an elven army (after all, those 10000 elves in Val Royeaux will count children, women and elderly amongst their numbers) all of those elves are potential agentes. After all, even a wizened old crone can poison a chalice.

The best way to combat this is, of course, through purges. Even if you can't kill every single elf, so long as you drive them from the cities, you will be safe. Then, you can focus on finding Solas.

The fate many millions is at stake.

[MisterJB]

In fact, if we assume that Solas intends to repopulate Thedas with modern elves altered by the fall of the Veil, then killing elves en mass might force him to shift his priorities frim fulfilling some ritual to protecting elves.
After all, if we threaten the elves with extinction, he will have to try to stop us.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If the Dalish Inquisitor says they would give their lives to see the elves rise again he asks them "Would you give the life of every friend you've ever known?" and "There is nothing but death on this path." So I believe it's likely that his plan will kill all or most of modern elves, yes.

[Master Warder Z_]

Ah, but that's the problem of having different types of "destruction of the world", isn't it? There's no shortage of Zion apologists in the Gundam universe either when a colony drop is involved ("Come on, it's bad, but it's a perfectly logical military tactic and it won't really destroy the planet!"), while a complete planetary destruction ("the Death Star says hello") is harder to swallow. People want Solas to mean the former, not the later.

 

Zeon.

 

Zion is...unrelated to Gundam, at least in this incarnation.

 

Also people happen to agree usually with Zeon when they are stating that, I have yet to see a single person to agree with Solas's genocidal campaign, well they probably exist but hey, they aren't like us Zeon fans.

 

 

I mean the superior race of Zeon are the rightful rulers of humanity.

[DomeWing333]

Well. Things certainly took a turn in this thread. Didn't expect "Not if we do it first" to crop up as an answer to the original question.

 

In fact, if we assume that Solas intends to repopulate Thedas with modern elves altered by the fall of the Veil, then killing elves en mass might force him to shift his priorities frim fulfilling some ritual to protecting elves.
After all, if we threaten the elves with extinction, he will have to try to stop us.

Highly disturbing genocidal rhetoric aside, we've seen firsthand that if you want to ****** Solas off, you don't go after the elves--you go after the spirits. 

 

I mean it's too bad we closed The Breach. Otherwise, we could have just gone after the entirety of the Fade itself a.k.a. Operation Nuke The Imagination Land Through The Imagination Doorway.

[Dean_the_Young]

He says the same thing to all types of inquisitors though I suspect its because Bioware had originally written the protagonist as a human.

 

Tresspasser was written well, well, well after the original Human-centric script. If they wanted him to make an exception for elves, they two DLCs and then the entire creation of the script to do so.

[Dabrikishaw]

Solas tells you to your face that his plan will kill all Modern Elves, so yes they will die. I don't wanna ask why anyone is suggesting to kill all Modern Elves all of a sudden.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well. Things certainly took a turn in this thread. Didn't expect "Not if we do it first" to crop up as an answer to the original question.

 

Highly disturbing genocidal rhetoric aside, we've seen firsthand that if you want to ****** Solas off, you don't go after the elves--you go after the spirits. 

 

I mean it's too bad we closed The Breach. Otherwise, we could have just gone after the entirety of the Fade itself a.k.a. Operation Nuke The Imagination Land Through The Imagination Doorway.

 

This is BSN. You should expect pro-genocide rhetoric against everyone at every turn for every reason. It might even be the most common unifying feature on here. I've seen people who would probably violently disagree on virtually every issue both argue how the only moral path is to exterminate every man, woman and child of the qunari race.

[Steelcan]

Solas tells you to your face that his plan will kill all Modern Elves, so yes they will die. I don't wanna ask why anyone is suggesting to kill all Modern Elves all of a sudden.

because the elves are joining him in droves

[DomeWing333]

I was actually a bit unclear about the implications of that. Was it suggesting that a bunch of modern elves decided to join up with Solas or that a lot of the elves we thought were modern were actually ancient elven agents of Solas? I assumed it was the latter, but it sounds like the former is the more common interpretation of things.