I was actually a bit unclear about the implications of that. Was it suggesting that a bunch of modern elves decided to join up with Solas or that a lot of the elves we thought were modern were actually ancient elven agents of Solas? I assumed it was the latter, but it sounds like the former is the more common interpretation of things.
I don't see why it'd be lots of ancient elven agents, they can't be that numerous
The thing is, Solas was implied to have had a network of agents since before he absorbed Mythal's powers (and even before he joined the Inquisition). And I have a hard time seeing how a regular elven apostate could manage to convince regular city elves and the Dalish to trust someone who's essentially their people's equivalent of Satan. They'd either think he's crazy or they'd think he's evil.
It just makes more sense to me that his agents are just ancient elves and possibly his former followers-people who have reason to buy into his story and his motives-than ordinary people he managed to convince to join his cause. After all, the epilogue slide didn't really specify exactly what number of elves joined up with Solas, just that they came from all across Thedas and within the Inquisition.
The thing is, Solas was implied to have had a network of agents since before he absorbed Mythal's powers (and even before he joined the Inquisition). And I have a hard time seeing how a regular elven apostate could manage to convince regular city elves and the Dalish to trust someone who's essentially their people's equivalent of Satan. They'd either think he's crazy or they'd think he's evil.
It just makes more sense to me that his agents are just ancient elves and possibly his former followers than ordinary people he managed to convince to join his cause. After all, the epilogue slide didn't really specify exactly what number of elves joined up with Solas, just that they came from all across Thedas and within the Inquisition.
Sure he probably had a few agents, but no more a few dozen I imagine.
We don't know how he's recruiting, just that he is
We don't know how he's recruiting, just that he is
Well, no, my point is that we don't know he's recruiting. The epilogue slide could just be referring to the few dozen or more agents he already has being withdrawn from their various posts in preparation for his plan.
Well, no, my point is that we don't know he's recruiting. The epilogue slide could just be referring to the few dozen or more agents he already has being withdrawn from their various posts in preparation for his plan.
in which case I'd think they have used different words and slides, it seems to me very much a massive uprising
You're misunderstanding the point, and what Solas views as truly elven. What the elves were is what he wants to save. If what you got out of Hushed Whispers is a time loop, you missed the main point Leliana made: that the world is only "artificial" to you because you didn't live it and refuse to accept it. That Solas can't recreate his culture doesn't mean he views the present culture as "real" - Cole spells it out repeatedly.
What he lost isn't the culture - he rebelled against it. He all but admits he used his people as tools when he denies his status as just a rebel. He wants to save what the elves were - the kinds of beings they were. The line you quote spells it out really plainly.
"My People fell" doesn't mean their culture died. It means their nature changed. Think of the metaphor fall - e.g. angels falling from heaven. "Some hope for restoration" is about undoing the fall - the fall being the changed nature. Listen to all the things Solas ever talks about to the Inquisitor - the elves magic, their crystal spire cities, the way spirts were when there was no Fade -this is what he wants to save.
I disagree. The situation that Dorian and The Inquisitor went through is very different than Solas' situation. In the event of Dorian and The Inquisitor's success, the world they witnessed and the people therein will have never existed while their "real" counterparts continued to live. With the Dark Future never coming to be, that world is lost but Leliana, Fiona and the companions that sacrificed themselves continue to live on. Solas is not so fortunate in his situation. All the friends he has made will be gone forever, there is no back up. He is not rewriting the world, he is violently changing it. Solas may not think that the modern world is comparable to the one that was lost but it is real. He knows this and regrets what he must do and even goes out of his way to see that they don't suffer.
I agree that Solas wants to save what the Elves were but I fail to see how he will accomplish this without modern Elves. It is possible that there are other enclaves of Ancient Elves hidden from the world but that is a big if. On what Solas means when he says "The People" again he is clearly referring to Elves in general. His own words strongly suggest such and he has referred to the Dalish Inquisitor, Sera, and modern Elves as "his" people multiple times.
"I'd hoped, well, our people can sometimes feel the rhythm of the language despite lacking the vocabulary." - Solas to Sera
"The Humans have not raised one of Our People so high for Ages beyond counting." - Solas to Dalish Inquisitor
I agree that Solas wants to save what the Elves were but I fail to see how he will accomplish this without modern Elves. It is possible that there are other enclaves of Ancient Elves hidden from the world but that is a big if. On what Solas means when he says "The People" again he is clearly referring to Elves in general. His own words strongly suggest such and he has referred to the Dalish Inquisitor, Sera, and modern Elves as "his" people multiple times.
"I'd hoped, well, our people can sometimes feel the rhythm of the language despite lacking the vocabulary." - Solas to Sera
"The Humans have not raised one of Our People so high for Ages beyond counting." - Solas to Dalish Inquisitor
Regarding Sera, he more or less gave up on her because he feels that she doesn't understand him or the culture.
Sera: Well, you just... Shut it!
"The People" Solas referred to are the Ancient Elves, not the modern elves.
Well. Things certainly took a turn in this thread. Didn't expect "Not if we do it first" to crop up as an answer to the original question.
Highly disturbing genocidal rhetoric aside, we've seen firsthand that if you want to ****** Solas off, you don't go after the elves--you go after the spirits.
I mean it's too bad we closed The Breach. Otherwise, we could have just gone after the entirety of the Fade itself a.k.a. Operation Nuke The Imagination Land Through The Imagination Doorway.
I suggest we recruit spirits and demons to our side to hamper with his plans. Merging Thedas with the Fade will be equally disastrous for them as us meatbags.
I suggest we recruit spirits and demons to our side to hamper with his plans. Merging Thedas with the Fade will be equally disastrous for them as us meatbags.
This is not the worst idea I have ever heard
This is not the worst idea I have ever heard
Me: Solas, there are these beings called the Evanuris that you couldn't beat before... they've been trapped and pissed a LONG time... how do you intend to defeat them.
Solas: Plans.
Me: Solas, what does that even mean? What's the plan?
Solas: I could tell you, but then you would know.
Me. That's the point isn't it? I want to know how you plan on defeating the Evanuris when you couldn't the first time. And what about the Forbidden Ones and the Forgotten Ones? What about that giant Fear demon the Inquisitor saw. How do you plan on dealing with them once they start walking on Thedas?
Solas: You are not me, you cannot know. It is... mysterious... with obfuscations and misdirections. But... I've got it all covered.
Me: Like the Veil? That went well right?
Solas: I feel so bad about that.
Me: Yes, I know. You feel bad so you want to kill everyone on Thedas. Are you AT LEAST sure you've thought this through?
Solas: As much as I think anything through.
Me: OH ****...
Well, no, my point is that we don't know he's recruiting. The epilogue slide could just be referring to the few dozen or more agents he already has being withdrawn from their various posts in preparation for his plan.
No, the epilogue says they are just elves who felt curious about the recent rumors involving the Dread Wolf.
They don't know what they're doing and were not invited.
Uh...where are you seeing that? As far as I know, the only text talking about the elves in the Trespasser Epilogue is as follows:
"After the events at the Winter Palace, elves left the Inquisition under mysterious circumstances, as did elven servants across Thedas...
None could say where they went, but those who believed the Inquisitor's story about Fen'Harel wondered how large the Dread Wolf's forces were...
And what the ancient elven rebel had planned."
Nowhere does it say that these elves were just curious about the rumors involve the Dread Wolf. And, in fact, reading it again makes it pretty clear that this is supposed to be a "Look how large Solas's network of spies actually was" moment rather than a "Look how many people are now flocking to join Solas" moment.
I guess he recruited them through Dreamer magic or something?
I suppose that in order to convince a large number of elves Solas should reveal himself as one of their god.I don't understand why the modern elves should trust the dread wolf.They have their legends about him and those legends are one of the things they got right.
I suppose that in order to convince a large number of elves Solas should reveal himself as one of their god.I don't understand why the modern elves should trust the dread wolf.They have their legends about him and those legends are one of the things they got right.
Except they don't know the entire story. My guess is Solas will probably save them from a human attack, make grandiose speeches about elven freedom, and lead them to 'liberate' Tevinter or whatever while keeping his secret at the same time.
So basically like a politician.
The thing is, Solas was implied to have had a network of agents since before he absorbed Mythal's powers (and even before he joined the Inquisition). And I have a hard time seeing how a regular elven apostate could manage to convince regular city elves and the Dalish to trust someone who's essentially their people's equivalent of Satan. They'd either think he's crazy or they'd think he's evil.
It just makes more sense to me that his agents are just ancient elves and possibly his former followers-people who have reason to buy into his story and his motives-than ordinary people he managed to convince to join his cause. After all, the epilogue slide didn't really specify exactly what number of elves joined up with Solas, just that they came from all across Thedas and within the Inquisition.
The Masked Empire gives us the perfect example of how he does it in the way he recruited Briala by proxy.
All he needs is one or two capable agents, like Felassan. They can then groom and turn city and dalish elves. Those new agents can be used to acquire more.
Briala spent at least a decade feeding Felassan information from the heart of Orlais' court. If not for some truly extraordinary events, she would have continued to do so.
Uh...where are you seeing that? As far as I know, the only text talking about the elves in the Trespasser Epilogue is as follows:
"After the events at the Winter Palace, elves left the Inquisition under mysterious circumstances, as did elven servants across Thedas...
None could say where they went, but those who believed the Inquisitor's story about Fen'Harel wondered how large the Dread Wolf's forces were...
And what the ancient elven rebel had planned."
Nowhere does it say that these elves were just curious about the rumors involve the Dread Wolf. And, in fact, reading it again makes it pretty clear that this is supposed to be a "Look how large Solas's network of spies actually was" moment rather than a "Look how many people are now flocking to join Solas" moment.
You are the one who is being selective in your quote. The sentence actually begins "None could say where they went but those......" It is saying that no one who had observed the elves leaving could say where those elves had gone but those who believed the Inquisitor's story about Fen'Harel assumed that the elves had gone to join him. It is not saying that the reason the elves left is that they were curious to find out where the other elves had gone.
It is clear that Solas and his agents have been spending their times, particularly in the two years after the defeat of Corypheus, in infiltrating elven communities and persuading them to join Solas in his grand plan for the restoration of the elves. They may not have told them his name of Fen'Harel, since Solas claims that was only something he took as a badge of pride against the Evanuris. So to these downtrodden, second class citizens of Thedas, they have a new saviour to lead them to a better tomorrow. That is probably all they know. In any case the city elves do not place such great store by the old stories, or think they are just that, folk stories, so would not have the same prejudice against the Dread Wolf as the Dalish.
Even the Dalish might be interested if they thought their beloved Creators were going to be freed from their imprisonment by Fen'Harel but I rather think his agents would be more subtle than that. Felassan led a Dalish clan a merry dance, feeding them information in order to get them to set up a situation that would allow him to recover the eluvians, whilst letting them think they were going to recover them for themselves. When the Keeper baulked at letting someone be possessed by the demon that was prepared to give access, Felassan came up with an alternative plan and ditched the clan who were no longer of use to him, leaving them to be torn apart by the same demon. He cared nothing for their fate and was perfectly prepared to use them to achieve his ends, just as Solas is.
Modern elves are not elves the writers were clear on this since WH when a Varterral wanted to kill Arianne.
That one was broken. There is a Varterral in The Masked Empire that doesn't attack modern elves.
That one was broken.
Or maybe elven magic just is garbage.
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