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[Jedi Master of Orion]

Or maybe elven magic just is garbage.

 

Obviously not. It's from a time when magic was much more powerful than anything today. The Masked Empire does provide an example of a Varterral that functions properly. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Obviously not.

 

Uh-huh.

[In Exile]

Or maybe elven magic just is garbage.

How can you say that when we saw the Orb peform feats impossible for the rest of Thedas?

[Gervaise]

Imshael: "Old elven magic.   Always have to respect old elven magic."   That was in Masked Empire and of course he was right.   OLD elven magic is very potent.   Had Solas not shut away the Evanuris it is doubtful that the Tevinter Imperium would ever have arisen.   As it was they built their empire on the knowledge they were able to glean from elven ruins.   Felassan: "Every column glowed with runes that the fools in Tevinter copied by rote like children tracing letters".

 

As Abelas says, the Dalish and their magic are just a shadow of what went before.   Old elven magic was not garbage and if some artefacts from that time have started to malfunction that is hardly surprising given the passage of years and the presence of the Veil.    However, it should be remembered that the Vartarrel in Masked Empire was in the presence of one ancient elf, Felassan.  Also he only says that if Briala had not attacked it "it might have ignored her".    Like Solas, he doesn't want to give too much away about himself by saying that he is the only elf it would not attack.   It is amusing that when Gaspard questions his assertion about it not attacking elves and clarifies that it can smell if you are an elf or not, Felassan responds "Well, this one does.  Fen'Harel knows what the other ones do," which is likely perfectly true.   Since the party then proceeds to attack the Vartarrel, we never discover if Briala and Mihris would have been safe in his presence.    I think the likelihodd is that they would not, if the other Vartarrel attacked Arianne.   Then again, since Kieran could still detect a magical signature in a modern elf's blood, may be the Vartarrel could too, although in the Inquisitor's case the magical signature could have been amplified by the anchor.

[Master Warder Z_]

How can you say that when we saw the Orb peform feats impossible for the rest of Thedas?

You mean a explosion that resulted from its release? It was explained readily enough by modern magic. You mean the anchor? Something that several modern skill sets imply variations of?

Do you mean scope of the explosion? In which case apparently if you throw around enough magic it will result in something similar.

Solas in his study of ancient elven lore admits as much.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Anchor is the only thing that can affect the rifts and the Breach. No normal magic will affect them.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Anchor is the only thing that can affect the rifts and the Breach.

 

I don't recall a Spirit Warrior strolling over to the hole in the sky to try.

 

[Qun00]

Imshael: "Old elven magic. Always have to respect old elven magic." That was in Masked Empire and of course he was right. OLD elven magic is very potent. Had Solas not shut away the Evanuris it is doubtful that the Tevinter Imperium would ever have arisen. As it was they built their empire on the knowledge they were able to glean from elven ruins. Felassan: "Every column glowed with runes that the fools in Tevinter copied by rote like children tracing letters".

As Abelas says, the Dalish and their magic are just a shadow of what went before. Old elven magic was not garbage and if some artefacts from that time have started to malfunction that is hardly surprising given the passage of years and the presence of the Veil. However, it should be remembered that the Vartarrel in Masked Empire was in the presence of one ancient elf, Felassan. Also he only says that if Briala had not attacked it "it might have ignored her". Like Solas, he doesn't want to give too much away about himself by saying that he is the only elf it would not attack. It is amusing that when Gaspard questions his assertion about it not attacking elves and clarifies that it can smell if you are an elf or not, Felassan responds "Well, this one does. Fen'Harel knows what the other ones do," which is likely perfectly true. Since the party then proceeds to attack the Vartarrel, we never discover if Briala and Mihris would have been safe in his presence. I think the likelihodd is that they would not, if the other Vartarrel attacked Arianne. Then again, since Kieran could still detect a magical signature in a modern elf's blood, may be the Vartarrel could too, although in the Inquisitor's case the magical signature could have been amplified by the anchor.

Didn't Ariane's blood work when it was used to activate an old elven artifact in the Cadash thaig?

I don't recall a Spirit Warrior strolling over to the hole in the sky to try.
 

That's because spirit warriors are so lore breaking and inconceivable that you might as well consider them fairies or unicorns.

[In Exile]

You mean a explosion that resulted from its release? It was explained readily enough by modern magic. You mean the anchor? Something that several modern skill sets imply variations of?

Do you mean scope of the explosion? In which case apparently if you throw around enough magic it will result in something similar.

Solas in his study of ancient elven lore admits as much.

 

Splitting apart the Veil, and allowing physical travel to it without human sacrifice. The explosion was a side effect. We see nothing akin to it. 

[The Ascendant]

I am curious how Solas' plan will affect the Fade and the spirits. The two realms have been separated for so long that they have become distinct and forcing them together may be as detrimental to the Fade as the physical world. Remember the demons who fell from the Rifts? Most of them were spirits who were driven mad by being forced into Thedas. So Solas won't just kill mortals, but mutilate and madden the denizens of the Fade. 

[kimgoold]

Since he says the same thing to a Dalish elf Inq, then yes, they will burn. He's manipulating the city and Dalish elves into helping him. Which I find just hysterical considering he is literally playing the role of the tales the Dalish spun of him.

 

Really, though, his people are likely that of spirits who became elves. In Trespasser, Cole says "He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face." And in the Deepest Fade codex, an ancient elf refers to spirits as their "brethren of the air". Then there's Mythal's body-hopping and the established lore that believing in spirits/their concepts makes them more powerful which is why Falon'Din wanted worshipers so badly.

 

Whether or not spirits will even survive the return of the original status quo to restore the ancient elven race is anyone's guess. Solas will probably die alone.

 

I honestly got the impression from Trespasser that Solas and the original Ancient elves were Spirits made flesh, so I honestly believe Solas plans to kill everyone and start over with more spirits from the fade. I could be wrong, but thats seems the most likely answer to me. Solas can lie his ass off without remorse as DAI has proven so I have no problems believing he plans to use the modern elves and remnants of the ancient elves to further his goals and then execute them; he really does seem that cold blooded to me and game supplied interactions and lore only strengthen my mistrust of this characters motives.

[9TailsFox]

If he's friends with the Inquisitor, or romanced by the Inquisitor, he definitely doesn't want everyone dead; he sees them as people and no, does not see them as unworthy of existing.  Even if you aren't friendly with him, I've seen it on Youtube... he's very regretful that there's going to be so much chaos and destruction.  It's sickening that he still intends to go through with it, and I can't say I feel badly for him (my Inquisitor romanced him and I felt SO BAD for her, because how awful to be told the things he told her...), but the fact remains that killing everyone isn't his intention.  He expects it to happen, but he isn't going out of his way to murder everyone.

 

It's more accurate to say that "fixing whatever is wrong" is more important to him than the lives of basically everyone on Thedas.  This probably includes the other ancient elves, in my opinion, because it's inevitable that more than a few of them will also die in the chaos.  Some think that this is because Solas is being selfish and just wants to assuage his guilt.  I think he believes whatever is wrong, precisely (and I don't know for sure if it has to do with magic, or spirits, or WHAT) with everyone on Thedas, is SO wrong, that he HAS to fix it, regardless of the cost to everyone currently alive.  And he hates himself for it (which let's be honest, he should--he's pretty cold to even consider such a thing).  If you haven't seen his friend/romanced dialogue from Trespasser, as well as his low approval dialogue, I highly recommend you go find it on Youtube.  It's not about wanting everyone to die at all.  Whatever his ultimate reasons, they're more complicated than just wanting to kill everything and start over.  Otherwise, he'd just be a moustache-twirling villain, and that would be pretty boring and not in line with what I've seen of Weekes' writing.

This is exactly what I think.From what Solas say I understand Solas wake up and all world full of tranquils. Solas don't want to kill everyone, Solas want to reverse tranquility. The problem it's not so simple and safe.

[GoldenGail3]

That's because spirit warriors are so lore breaking and inconceivable that you might as well consider them fairies or unicorns.

My Cousland is a Spirit Warrior...

[Qun00]

My Cousland is a Spirt Warrior...

AND A LIIIIIIE! AN UGLY LIIIIIIIIIEEEE!!!

[GoldenGail3]

AND A LIIIIIIE! AN UGLY LIIIIIIIIIEEEE!!!

She is. Sorry to say dat, but she is. I wonder if she could've closed the Breach? *wonders*

[Qun00]

She is. Sorry to say dat, but she is.

An ugly lie? Yes, yes, of course.

[Gervaise]

I've not played Witch Hunt but any elven artefact in Cadash Thaig would have been taken there from the Arlathan Forest settlement which existed long after the raising of the Veil, so at least some of the artefacts would have been attuned to elves born after the raising of the Veil.   There had to have been a large number of "modern" elves in that settlement because they were captured and became the basis of the hugely expanded Tevinter slave force that enabled their subsequent rapid expansion across the south.    If that had been based on the sort of numbers we saw at the Temple of Mythal, it wouldn't have made much difference to Tevinter's effectiveness.

 

To be honest I don't think the writers are very consistent with their lore.   Sometimes things react the same way to all elves; like Kieran recognising the magic in your blood and both Felassan and Briala not being inconvenienced by the Crossroad; both the Inquisitor and Sera seeing the Crossroads differently from other races.    Then you have a vartarrel attacking Arianne, Abelas rejecting you as one of the People (when Mythal acknowledges you) and Solas stating that you are going to die along with the other races and clearly not seeing the modern elves as his People.

 

One of the most amusing conversations with him occurs after Wicked Eyes if you choose to put Briala in charge.   I say to him something to the effect that it is a good thing it will help our people and Solas seems truly mystified as to what I am going on about, before the penny drops and he says "Oh, you mean the elves."   I remember thinking at the time, "of course I mean the elves, who else would I mean?"   At the time I thought it was because he identified more with spirits but in hindsight I realise it is because he doesn't recognise the modern elves as "his" people.

[Shechinah]

To be honest I don't think the writers are very consistent with their lore.   Sometimes things react the same way to all elves; like Kieran recognising the magic in your blood and both Felassan and Briala not being inconvenienced by the Crossroad; both the Inquisitor and Sera seeing the Crossroads differently from other races.  Then you have a vartarrel attacking Arianne, Abelas rejecting you as one of the People (when Mythal acknowledges you) and Solas stating that you are going to die along with the other races and clearly not seeing the modern elves as his People.

 

None of that are lore inconsistencies as far as I see it.

 

 The varterrals were supposedly created by the elven gods to protect the People and their treasures therefore in theory, it is assumed that they are not suppose to attack the People and instead, defend them but the varterrals that have been encountered challenges that assumption.

 

That Abelas, Solas and Flemeth reacts differently to modern elves is not lore inconsistency but characters having differing opinions on something. In Abelas' case, he does not consider the modern elves as being part of the People because he sees them as being so different from the People he knows.

[Mistic]

To be honest I don't think the writers are very consistent with their lore.   Sometimes things react the same way to all elves; like Kieran recognising the magic in your blood and both Felassan and Briala not being inconvenienced by the Crossroad; both the Inquisitor and Sera seeing the Crossroads differently from other races.  Then you have a vartarrel attacking Arianne, Abelas rejecting you as one of the People (when Mythal acknowledges you) and Solas stating that you are going to die along with the other races and clearly not seeing the modern elves as his People.

 

You are mixing the Thedosian equivalent of scientific facts (elves have some more magic in their veins, as seen since Corypheus' times, and we know from TME that the Crossroads look different to elves, it's not lore saying it does) with personal attitudes. That Mythal is more open-minded than Abelas is a personal opinion, the same as Solas'.

 

I mean, all humans belong to the same species, yet that doesn't stop countless people from discriminating against each other. We wouldn't have the No True Scotsman fallacy otherwise.

 

The varterral case is trickier, but it could be a case of Dalish tales being inaccurate. It wouldn't be the first time, would it? It was lampshaded in TME. When Gaspard asks whether the varterral won't attack an elf if it smells them, Felassan answers: "Well, this one does. Fen’Harel knows what the other ones do.”

[TheChosenOne]

I'm just wondering where my Warden will be during all of this crazy **** Solas is planning to do. He'll probably curb stomped his nostalgic ****** ass for trying to destroy the world he busted his ass for!   

[In Exile]

None of that are lore inconsistencies as far as I see it.

The varterrals were supposedly created by the elven gods to protect the People and their treasures therefore in theory, it is assumed that they are not suppose to attack the People and instead, defend them but the varterrals that have been encountered challenges that assumption.

That Abelas, Solas and Flemeth reacts differently to modern elves is not lore inconsistency but characters having differing opinions on something. In Abelas' case, he does not consider the modern elves as being part of the People because he sees them as being so different from the People he knows.

The varterral doesn't attack Zevran. It may not have attacked Morrigan. There is some logic to what it does but it was not yet revealed to us. Or it may just have been carefully dodged by the two while we stumbled in to it.

[Qun00]

What about Pol?

[Reznore57]

The varterral doesn't attack Zevran. It may not have attacked Morrigan. There is some logic to what it does but it was not yet revealed to us. Or it may just have been carefully dodged by the two while we stumbled in to it.

 

Another also attacked Dalish hunter in DA2 , although the clan is surprised by that .I think Merrill says there's something wrong with it but they don't know what.

[In Exile]

What about Pol?

Another also attacked Dalish hunter in DA2 , although the clan is surprised by that .I think Merrill says there's something wrong with it but they don't know what.

 

I didn't mean to ignore Pol - I just meant that we only know of two potential cases where it wasn't hostile, and one of the two it wasn't hostile against was not an elf at all. It was more of a shrug as to what possible mechanism might govern this thing. 

 

Have we even heard of a Dalish clan actually being protected by one?

 

Also, a more interesting issue here is that Sundermont in DA2 was the site of a potential battle between elves post-Veil and Tevinter. Interesting they would still have the relics of their old empire working. For all we know, it relied on the Fade to perform its mission to protect Elvhen. Once the Veil goes up, it goes ballistic and the FOF is b0rked. 

[Reznore57]

I didn't mean to ignore Pol - I just meant that we only know of two potential cases where it wasn't hostile, and one of the two it wasn't hostile against was not an elf at all. It was more of a shrug as to what possible mechanism might govern this thing. 

 

Have we even heard of a Dalish clan actually being protected by one?

 

Also, a more interesting issue here is that Sundermont in DA2 was the site of a potential battle between elves post-Veil and Tevinter. Interesting they would still have the relics of their old empire working. For all we know, it relied on the Fade to perform its mission to protect Elvhen. Once the Veil goes up, it goes ballistic and the FOF is b0rked. 

 

Well one thing even more interesting is Merrill says the elves were guarding the elders being in uthenera.

Now we know some ancient elves kept on in uthenera despite the veil , what's stranger is how did the elves lost the knowledge of the creation of the veil when they still had those relics able to wake up and explain stuff.

And if Tevinter was there slaying those asleep , they must have vaguely heard rumors about those ancient elves who had the very least could gain a form of immortality leeching off of the fade , you'd think they would have been interested in that a great deal.

 

Now I assume humans wouldn't be able to practise in uthenera , and elves suffered the same fate after a few generation post veil.

Wonder if it's related to dreamers though.

We know those are getting rarer as years go by.Also wonder if there is a difference between an elven dreamer and a human one.