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[German Soldier]

Then i guess it didn't matter much at all for your PC the choice to kill AListair or Loghain at the landsmeet it was purely cosmetic since they had written the same fate....

[Dai Grepher]

Is she really in her 40s?  I figured her and Cailan for their early 20s in Origins, guess I was about a decade off.

In Return to Ostagar you can get Cailan's documents. One is a letter from Eamon stating that Anora approaches her 30th year. This letter was sent before he fell ill, obviously, and leading up to Ostagar. So I figure Ostagar took place in the 3rd month perhaps. So it was 9:30 that year, and if Anora approaches her 30th year in 9:30 then it means she would turn 30 years old in 30 Dragon. Cailan was born 9:3 or 9:5, I think. Alistair was born 9:10.
 

As for the topic at hand, yeah, as the only remaining teyrn, Fergus and his line seem like the logical successors to the throne, if Fereldan remains united at all.  Although, I seem to recall someone making reference to the idea that Maric was a notorious sleeper-arounder, so it's possible Alistair might not be the only Therin bastard out there, so it's possible someone could try to challenge Fergus (whether legitimately or not) with another potential heir, if he proved to be unpopular.

Right, as I wrote, it would be a stretch for BioWare though. The new bastard would still need some kind of proof of bloodline, which is unlikely to exist. Even in the case of Cailan having produced some bastards it would be a stretch.
 

I believe she was In her early 30s in Origins. It's impossible for Cailan to be in his early 20's in Origins, since he was either five or nine years old when Alistair was born. Though I'm not sure which age it is, since Gaider himself got his own timeline wrong.

Which is why I don't consider Gaider a legitimate source of information. But yes, Cailan is older than Alistair, but they met each other once at Redcliffe as kids.
 

Anora had just turned 30 during Return to Ostagar. I think.

RtO has the letter, but the letter was written before Ostagar. Anora could have been born in any month following the 2nd month I believe. My personal theory is that she was born in Bloomingtide, but I think it really comes down to when the final battles against the Orlesians took place, as Loghain would likely lay with Celia one last time before some major battle he might not come back from.
 

Alistair's comment on meeting him as a child made it sound like they were actually pretty close in age, but fair enough.

They were close in age. Cailan was either 5 or 7 when Alistair was born, so Cailan may have been 14 when Alistair was 9. That seems like a good age for a memory of that meeting to take hold in Alistair's mind. He said Cailan was more interested in looking around the castle than talking to him though, which seems in character with a teenager.

[Dai Grepher]

Sergeant Kylon should be the next King of Fereldan.

Isn't he killable in Origins? The main game, not just Darkspawn Chronicles.
 

I doubt the Landsmeet would present much opposition to naming Fergus as king, since, as I recall (and my memory may be faulty) the only reason they didn't name Bryce Cousland king after Maric is because Bryce was a staunch Royalist and declined the nomination.

I don't think it states that Bryce turned it down, but that's probably how it happened. He did show some blind loyalty to Cailan when Rendon was badmouthing him.
 

Unlike Anora and either potential husband, we know Fergus is capable of producing heirs.  As a survivor of the Fifth Blight, he's got some war veteran credit.

 

Yes he did literally survive the Fifth Blight, and he led some troops in the Wilds. He didn't end up getting back into the game until the player was marching to Denerim, but he may have been in that battle as well.
 

As a widower via Howe's treachery, he's got the sympathy vote.  As potentially the brother of the Hero of Ferelden, he might have some hero worship by association credit.  As the eldest son of Highever, a not so small mini kingdom in itself, he was already raised and educated to rule, so he's got the experience vote.  His father was well liked, so he's got that association going for him as well.  The list just goes on and on.

The Hero may also be king alongside Anora. So it would provide precedent in that worldstate as well.
 

Really, there just aren't any downsides for the Landsmeet to object to except that he isn't blood related to Maric, and that's clearly not a deal breaker, or there'd be no way to lose the Landsmeet against Loghain.

Especially in worldstates where Alistair doesn't rule and the line was broken anyway.
 

In my opinion it seems clear that, barring writer gymnastics, rulership of Ferelden would go to the Couslands upon the deaths of the current monarchs.

Yep. Especially if Fergus gets "busy" with the right noblewoman before then. Again, Alfstanna seems like the most logical choice for that.

Another option might be Leliana. According to her, she already knows Fergus regardless of worldstate.

[TK514]

You mean Fergus. Yes he did literally survive the Fifth Blight, and he led some troops in the Wilds. He didn't end up getting back into the game until the player was marching to Denerim, but he may have been in that battle as well.

 

I do.  Corrected.

[The Baconer]

Next stop... Imperial Ferelden.  

 

Ferelden taking control of the Waking Sea and invading Kirkwall? 

 

 

Maybe 200 years after the Dragon Age. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@The Baconer:  You recommend another port of call for my new fleet?  Do tell.  I am always willing to give ear to the plebs. 

[The Baconer]

@The Baconer: You recommend another port of call for my new fleet? Do tell. I am always willing to give ear to the plebs.

Clearly, as one can hardly pleb harder than Ferelden. Go for the low-hanging fruit, Brandel's Reach or something. That should be possible in the Warden's lifetime.

[Medhia_Nox]

@The Baconer:  The Vimmark mountains provide an excellent natural barrier to the rest of the Free Marches. 

 

But I'm thinking Kirkwall - because the Planascene forest is the only thing that borders it... Ostwick is the center of the coastline... though, hitting Hericina first would cut off Ostwick and Kirkwall from reinforcements.  Hmm... 

 

So... Kirwall, Ostwick and Hericinia - then stop for the winter to resupply and prepare to push further north.  

 

OR...

 

Hercinia, Ostwick then Kirkwall - while reinforcing Hercinia and preparing to set sail for Estwatch in the spring?

Help me pleb!

[Big I]

^ Wouldn't Alistair be 31 in DAI, 33 or 34 as of Trespasser? He was born in 9:10.

 

I stand corrected. I thought he was born in 05/06, because I thought Dragon Age: The Calling happened in 9:05.

[tanuki]

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. Even if infant mortality isn't high in Thedas (due to the presence of magical healers and health potions...), if you're a noble it makes no sense to have one kid and hope for the best. What if they end up being a mage? Or they take up arms and die in a war somewhere?

It's only the commoners that seem to have large families. Malcolm and Leandra had three children, but I doubt they planned on having twins. Cullen's family has him, two sisters, and a brother (iirc) making his parents the only intelligent humans in Thedas and they're not even noble.

IIRC Josephine has several siblings too.

[DeSade]

@German Soldier:  Nope... I had to get rid of Alistair too.

 

Can't have the drunk coming back under the banner of Eamon or Teagan and trying for my throne.  That would force a schism amongst the Arls... and I have no time for civil war.  

 

Better to let Eamon's line (and the Theirin line) die out.

 

The Cousland line is both King and Teyrn AND Bann (King Cousland, Tyrne of Highever, Bann of Amaranthine).  

 

Next stop... Imperial Ferelden.  

 

You missed one.

 

King or Queen Cousland with Queen Anora or King Alistair (temporarily)

Teryn/Teyrna of Gwaren (one of the rewards for being HOF)

Teryn/Teyrna of Highever though Fergus

Arl/Arlessa of Amaranthine (Arling not a Bannorn) The City of Amaranthine is a Bannorn

 

That gives you total control over the entirety of Ferelden.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

That gives you total control over the entirety of Ferelden.

Ehi Reclieffe is still in Eamon hands Rainsfere is of Tegan,Dragon peak and other several lands are still of others nobles,

[DeSade]

Ehi Reclieffe is still in Eamon hands Rainsfere is of Tegan,Dragon peak and other several lands are still of others nobles,

 

Arlings and Bannorns.....

 

You control the Crown and the only two Teyrnirs in the country which means the hierarchy looks like this

 

Crown (Cousland)

Gwaren (Cousland)   Highever (Cousland)

 

Everyone else including Cousland again for Amaranthine

 

Bans are vassals of Arls and Arls are vassals of Teyrn and Teyrns are vassals of the Crown

So at more than one point in this chain everyone reports to a Cousland.

[Wulfram]

I'd think many Arls and Banns are sworn directly to the Crown rather than having a Teyrn as overlord. There's no indication that Redcliffe, for example, owes allegiance to Cousland or Gwaren, and given the geography I don't really see much reason it should.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Arlings and Bannorns.....

 

You control the Crown and the only two Teyrnirs in the country which means the hierarchy looks like this

 

Crown (Cousland)

Gwaren (Cousland)   Highever (Cousland)

 

Everyone else including Cousland again for Amaranthine

 

Bans are vassals of Arls and Arls are vassals of Teyrn and Teyrns are vassals of the Crown

So at more than one point in this chain everyone reports to a Cousland.

I'm not saying taht the majority of Ferelden is not in Cousland hands in thi scenario,i'm saying that some lands of Ferelden a good 40% is not

[Medhia_Nox]

@Wulfram:  Well - honestly, I would have had Teagan declared a traitor to the crown when he allowed a freaking Tevinter magister to settle his lands.  The truth of it is hardly relevant. 

 

But - even if I'm forced to allow that moron his lands back because of Tresspasser... Redcliff is a wasteland and the line is shamed by Connor.  I can use that to my advantage as well. 

 

And why hasn't Teagan married... hmm... I detect deviancy that threatens the realm with destabilization once he dies.  

 

Redcliff will be in Emperor Cousland's hands before long... 

[Dai Grepher]

Bans are vassals of Arls and Arls are vassals of Teyrn and Teyrns are vassals of the Crown
So at more than one point in this chain everyone reports to a Cousland.

Not exactly. Banns are mainly independent, though they swear fealty to the monarch(s), as well as their Teyrn. The Arls are just Banns who have been selected by a Teyrn to manage things in certain regions.

Under Cousland rule, the Coastlands are controlled by the Couslands, as is Denerim, as is Gwaren. Waking Sea can have an alliance with Highever. The Guerrins owe the Cousland everything. Being that powerful would naturally make one of their heirs the most likely candidate for the throne.

[DeSade]

I'd think many Arls and Banns are sworn directly to the Crown rather than having a Teyrn as overlord. There's no indication that Redcliffe, for example, owes allegiance to Cousland or Gwaren, and given the geography I don't really see much reason it should.

To the Crown, which Cousland controls, indirectly

 

I'm not saying taht the majority of Ferelden is not in Cousland hands in thi scenario,i'm saying that some lands of Ferelden a good 40% is not

Even if they do not report to the lower levels they all report to the Crown which Cousland controls indirectly

 

Not exactly. Banns are mainly independent, though they swear fealty to the monarch(s), as well as their Teyrn. The Arls are just Banns who have been selected by a Teyrn to manage things in certain regions.

Under Cousland rule, the Coastlands are controlled by the Couslands, as is Denerim, as is Gwaren. Waking Sea can have an alliance with Highever. The Guerrins owe the Cousland everything. Being that powerful would naturally make one of their heirs the most likely candidate for the throne.

Swear fealty to the Monarch, one of which is a Cousland

 

I rest my case.

[Dai Grepher]

Right, but they can always break that oath, and band together if they want to. Depending on how the crown acts, it could lead to many Banns revolting, and thus a civil war. A Cousland would likely be able to persuade them to cooperate though.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Dai Grepher:  Civil war?  That's what swords are for.  It'll likely come to some level of conflict between I proper subdue the Bannorn - but since I already own more than half the country I figure it'll be worth the effort.  

 

Actually... maybe I'll pay the Avvar to finish off Redcliff once and for all and put Teagan's head on a pike. 

 

I can feign horror - march my armies to liberate Redcliff from the heathens... and then simply put myself in charge of Red Cliff and the surrounding area now that that fool family line will have been extinguished. 

[vertigomez]

TVTropes has a Dragon Age entry under Only Child Syndrome that made me think of this thread.

Spoiler

Dragon Age: Origins: The noble families of Ferelden are strangely small:

The Cousland family has two children, both of them grown, and a single grandson. All of them save the elder son (and possibly the second child, one of the possible origins) are killed in the prologue. By the end of the game Fergus is the heir and sole member of the family.

The Guerrin family consists of two brothers, one of them unmarried, and a son barred from succession because he is a Child Mage.

Rendon Howe has three adult children: one becomes a Grey Warden and thus is unable to procreate; his only daughter has one son; and his second son is dead by the end of the game.

Loghain Mac Tir has an only daughter, the Queen.

Queen Anora never had any children with her husband, King Cailan, who was likewise the only son of King Maric, who was the only son of Queen Moira, who was the only daughter of King Brandel, who was the only son of King Vanedrin. And, of course, Alistair is the last scion of the Theirin family, which does not bode well since he is a Grey Warden.

Even the minor families of Ferelden seemingly have only one or two children, and some even appear unmarried or childless. How this feudal, hereditary monarchy can survive such an impending power vacuum is never addressed. It's possible that, because this is a video game where the focus is not dynastic politics, many of these families are actually larger, or have extended, female-line branches that are simply not seen, but for a series that revels in creating a huge codex of extraneous lore, that would be a strange oversight.

Dragon Age: Inquisition has Dorian Pavus, the only son of the noble House Pavus of Tevinter. His only-child status is both justified, as his parents despise each other and married for political reasons and thus only cared to have the necessary heir, and problematic, as Dorian is gay and refuses to hide it, preventing him from carrying on the bloodline, driving his father to desperation that led to Dorian leaving the family altogether.

IIRC Josephine has several siblings too.

Oh, you're right! I had forgotten. Josie's parents are smart, too.

[Ieldra]

I can't be the only one who doesn't care all that much. Who'd want to rule Ferelden? Also, my only Cousland is with Morrigan. The land behind the eluvians is way more fascinating than brown, dog-infested (giving yet another meaning to "brown") Ferelden.

[AlanC9]

I suppose we can headcanon that fertility rates in Thedas are just plain low.

OTOH, even with our fertility rates, outbreaks of infertility in noble families were a thing.

[AlanC9]

As for the topic, I'm not convinced that the high position of the Couslands makes it more likely for the crown to be handed to them if it hasn't already been. An average bann would probably not want that much concentrated power in the hands of the monarch.

[vertigomez]

I suppose we can headcanon that fertility rates in Thedas are just plain low.

OTOH, even with our fertility rates, outbreaks of infertility in noble families were a thing.

Sure, but even the notoriously infertile dwarves are out-breeding most of the human nobility.