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Why does Solas think his plan is necessary?


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#1
Brass_Buckles

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If he feels that badly about it, what could possibly make him feel that he absolutely must go through with this plan anyway?  He felt so strongly that he was willing to kill his oldest friend to see this plan through.  He is willing to tell someone he dearly loves that his actions will most likely result in her suffering and death.

 

That's some serious stuff.

 

Some people say it's guilt, or nostalgia.  I think that there has to be something more to it, because Solas is not so cruel as to do something so terrible just for his own sake.  He's proud, yes.  He isn't as wise as he thinks he is, or so it appears.  However this is the man who gives approval when you're nice to others (especially elves, it's worth noting)--even before he sees them as "real people." If he likes being nice to people, or animals, or almost-people, or whatever it is he views them as, then whatever is making him think he needs to do something terrible to them, must be big.  It's not likely that he just wants to kill them all and get rid of them, because again, he likes being nice to people, even if they're not "real" people to him.  You could argue that it's like being humane to cattle before the slaughter; he does in fact want people to have comfort before the chaos to come.  And he expects them to die.  It's just that their deaths is not his purpose, or his intention.

 

Note:  I don't sympathize with him.  I feel much worse for the Inquisitors who friended or romanced him and had to listen to him tell them that basically he expects his plan to kill them horribly, but by all means have a good few short years that are left!  But saying he's genocidal kind of misses his point, because he's not about destruction of the modern races.  He tells you that they will die in the chaos to come, and he seems to think that's unfortunate and terrible.  If he were actively planning to kill them, he'd probably tell you that he intended to do so (even if he didn't tell you why).  I even think he would be pleased and relieved if he discovered some means of carrying out his plan without the destruction he expects, although finding a way for the ancient to coexist with the modern might be a tremendous challenge.  However, he's still knowingly going through with a plan that will cause tremendous chaos, to the degree it will probably harm and/or kill people he has come to think of as friends (or even possibly a lover in the case of the Inquisitor).  That's pretty unforgivable, in my opinion.

 

That said, we currently don't know everything, including exactly why he feels he has to do this.  For a romanced Inquisitor, he's almost ready to ditch the plan, but then he can't bring himself to do so.  So is it really THAT big of a deal?  I'm not sure.

 

So... what is so important that Solas is forcing himself into this massive moral dilemma where he says he's not a monster but it's clear he's feeling the exact opposite?

 

I've thought of a few reasons for it myself, among them these:

 

  • Solas sees everyone as unknowingly suffering (much like the Tranquil) because they are somehow "not whole" with the Veil in place.  So even though many will die in the process, he still has to fix it.
  • He feels so obligated to his people (and this one seems most likely) and feels so strongly that he has betrayed them, that he is willing to do anything to correct his past mistake.
  • Thedas may be dying, or Solas may perceive that it is so, due to the creation of the Veil.  This actually has been suggested somewhat by characters in-game (Flemeth!) and others have mentioned it on the forums in the past.  The Veil definitely did cause mass extinction of species that relied upon the Fade for survival, and could have contributed to the decline of griffins prior to the very poor decision on the part of the Wardens that led to their total extinction.
  • The Veil could already be in danger of destruction, and if it's done improperly, we'll get dangerous results like what we see in Inquisition.  Whatever Solas is planning is going to be disastrous, but evidently leaving the Breach unchecked would have been even worse.
  • If this were less literally earth-shattering than changing the fabric of reality, one could argue that an older Solas realizes that he made a terrible mistake, and having gained wisdom from it, plans to correct it.  From the perspective of an ageless individual, this might be wisdom... to the rest of us he looks like a massive jerk who cares more about himself than the lives of countless others.

Most likely, I think it's a combination of factors.  I just don't know which.  And I do personally believe that Solas is primarily driven by an obligation to the People--more specifically his own people.  We don't know how many of them there are.  There could be more of them than modern Thedosians.  We do know that many are trapped and/or suffering.  Some are stuck in uthenera, unable to wake because the Veil prevents their spirits from returning to their bodies, so to speak.  Many died long ago because they were awake and their bodies and spirits were unable to reconnect to the Veil.  It's like one massive networking error.  And yet, I think Solas has other reasons too, and that's why he feels he has to do this no matter what the cost.

 

I think the Veil does pretty much have to come down, even if it means the end of the series as we know it (maybe it will begin a new franchise?).  I even want to see Thedas without the Veil, because it's rare to see a fantastical fantasy world in games or movies these days.  You just see castles and mountains and ruins and such that can exist in the real world.  I'd like to see floating cities and flower forests and other things that I'm not likely to see in the real world. Not that these "realistic" worlds don't have their appeal, because they do.  But I guess I just want to see some things that can only happen with magic, without having them be mere ruins.  That'd be kind of nice.  And yet I don't want all my characters and their friends to die for the sake of this, if that makes sense.  If they do, then that's part of the story and so be it... but I'd rather they didn't.


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#2
myahele

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Pride

 

Of course there may be a possibility that Thedas is slowly dying (namely due to the hunting of Dragons?) Since DAO I always believed that Flemeth was preserving the world as best as she could ... now she's more or less gone.



#3
Master Warder Z_

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Pride

Of course there may be a possibility that Thedas is slowly dying (namely due to the hunting of Dragons?) Since DAO I always believed that Flemeth was preserving the world as best as she could ... now she's more or less gone.


Because of Solas so if your theory is true erm...it all falls on him. I mean it's sort of a joke, the world is doomed because of him so he's killing everyone to save it because of him.

It's pretty dumb but it sounds like his sort of insanity.
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#4
In Exile

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Solas wanted to save the elves. Truly save them, by freeing them from the Evanuris. Instead, he destroyed them, he shattered the Fade, and he may have harmed spirits in a way we do not yet understand. He wants to fix this situation he created. He's wracked by guilt, but he isn't driven solely by guilt. He wants to save his world in the same way that the Inquisitor wanted to save the world during In Hushed Whispers. We don't ever acknowledge that reality as real. To some extent we see the people in it as "real", but not even really that (see e.g. Leliana). I'm sure that to Solas, our current world does not look so very different from the horror that we see in that apocalyptic future. 


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#5
DomeWing333

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I'm probably being too psychoanalytical about it, but maybe feeling bad about it is the point. A subconscious component to Solas's plan could be that it serves as a form of self-punishment. We know from his gravestone in the Fade that Solas's greatest fear is "Dying Alone." And yet his plan involves killing/making enemies of everyone he's ever called a friend, ensuring that should he eventually die, it will most certainly be alone. Seems a bit masochistic. So maybe that's his way of atoning for what he perceives to be his crimes. 



#6
dawnstone

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Well, there's always the much derided theory that he is under a geas from Mythal's Well of Sorrows, and he's following Mythal's will, despite his desires to the contrary. 



#7
robertmarilyn

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I just replayed the part where the IQ finds the missing scouts on Storm Coast and Solas says that someone needs to inform their families of their deaths. My gosh Solas, there are going to be a lot of families that need informing if you manage to pull off your plans in the future. Of course, that's if those families are alive, once you've done your deed. 

 

I can't figure it out except to say that Solas has problems.  <_<



#8
Reznore57

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Solas is not forced , he says he must because he can't help himself , he can't just sit down and let the world be as it is.

It's not like he's the only one who tries to change the world and model it after his ideals , the main difference is Solas actually can change the world with magic.


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#9
In Exile

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Solas is not forced , he says he must because he can't help himself , he can't just sit down and let the world be as it is.

It's not like he's the only one who tries to change the world and model it after his ideals , the main difference is Solas actually can change the world with magic.

 

Correction. Solas did change the world. 



#10
Master Warder Z_

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Correction. Solas did change the world.


So he claims.

#11
KaiserShep

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So he claims.

 

 

I don't suppose that'll end up being false, though. 



#12
Master Warder Z_

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I don't suppose that'll end up being false, though.


Knowing Bioware... Probably not.

They would do something dumb like give the Veil a actual creator.

#13
Medhia_Nox

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Solas "feels bad" in the same way a sociopath "feels bad" when getting yelled at for poisoning the neighborhood strays.  

 

He "feels bad" he got caught - not that he killed the strays. 



#14
TK514

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Fen'Herel, Elven God of Poor Choices.


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#15
Qun00

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No need for mental gymnastics. It is exactly what it looks like. He wants to bring back the age of ancient elves.

Kinda like Corypheus, but feeling bad about it.

#16
Qun00

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No need for mental gymnastics. It is exactly what it looks like. He wants to bring back the age of ancient elves.

Kinda like Corypheus, but feeling bad about it.
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#17
In Exile

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Solas "feels bad" in the same way a sociopath "feels bad" when getting yelled at for poisoning the neighborhood strays.

He "feels bad" he got caught - not that he killed the strays.


That's not fair. He feels "bad" the way renegade Shepard might feel bad when ostensibly sacrificing for the greater good. The truth of Solas is very simple - he thinks that ultimately whatever he does is right because of what he is saving. People ask for a villain driven by motivations other than comical evil - well, that's his motivation. To save what he sees as the "real" world, i.e., the world that existed before he created this world.
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#18
dawnstone

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That's not fair. He feels "bad" the way renegade Shepard might feel bad when ostensibly sacrificing for the greater good. The truth of Solas is very simple - he thinks that ultimately whatever he does is right because of what he is saving. People ask for a villain driven by motivations other than comical evil - well, that's his motivation. To save what he sees as the "real" world, i.e., the world that existed before he created this world.

Solas' writer said in a tweet that he wanted a t-shirt like the Magneto one where it says "Magneto made some valid points", only with Solas replacing Magneto's name (and I guess there'd be a wolf instead of a helmet :lol:). He's supposed to be divisive because he is right about certain things, like how the Veil existing causes horrific problems for people, which for him includes spirits, as he considers spirits people. It's just he can't throw the baby out with the bathwater by trying to erase his mistakes and pretending the modern world didn't happen. Which is why I think you'll get a chance to turn him from that path on a redeem track, and find another way, even if it does ultimately cost his life, or your character's, or both.



#19
Nefla

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Solas is pretty much the worst decision maker and the worst at anticipating the consequences of his actions but he as the utmost confidence in himself. Not a great combination! :lol:


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#20
dawnstone

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Solas is pretty much the worst decision maker and the worst at anticipating the consequences of his actions but he as the utmost confidence in himself. Not a great combination! :lol:

The funniest thing of all is, I think deep down he knows he's bad at it, which is why he's going to the Inquisitor for advice up until the end.

 

I think back to Flemythal saying "things happened that were not supposed to happen" and Solas saying to Vivienne when she asked him if he saw himself as a villain, and he replied, "No more than any other clever man who wonders what he could do if pushed." and then Cole saying about him in Trespasser, "Bare-faced but free, frolicking, fighting, fierce. He wants to give wisdom, not orders." Solas got pushed into power, originally, against his own desires, because everyone else had run off the rails crazy with power. He was the only one left to stop them. He was pushed into it, and believes he is still being pushed.

 

But he's not supposed to be the guy in charge, he never was. He needs a Mythal or an Inquisitor there to be able to slam on the brakes, because he runs entirely on his emotions and sense of obligation and the sunk cost fallacy.   


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#21
Mistic

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The funniest thing of all is, I think deep down he knows he's bad at it, which is why he's going to the Inquisitor for advice up until the end.

 

I think it may depend on playthrough to be able to see that part of his character, but yes, I agree.

 

Like when an Inquisitor he is friends with says "You don't need to destroy this world. I'll prove it to you", he answers with "I would treasure the chance to be wrong once again, my friend". He is basically admitting he keeps making mistakes and doesn't rule out the possibility that he's doing it again now.


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#22
In Exile

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Solas is pretty much the worst decision maker and the worst at anticipating the consequences of his actions but he as the utmost confidence in himself. Not a great combination! :lol:


In the same way that Varric joked that disaster follows Hawke around - the day at the beach is the invasion of demon pirates day - Solas seems to unleash an existential apocalypse every time he gets involved. If Solas cooked, he'd probably cause an explosion that would wipe out the Skyhold kitchen.
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#23
Gervaise

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He is driven by his purpose/his plan and is single minded in his commitment to it.    I would be quite surprised if the Inquisitor is able to prove to him that he doesn't need to destroy the world because Solas is so determined that this is what he has to do to fix his past mistake.    When he asks you what you will do with the Well of Sorrows, if you say consult with other people, he disapproves.    If you say you will try to make the world a better place, he approves.    In other words, you making a decision to do something regardless of anyone else's opinion is what he approves of.    He also asks "what if you wake up one day and find it is worse?".    Unfortunately, the words put in our mouth are that you pick yourself up, decide what went wrong and try again.    Solas just loves that: "You give me hope".   It is almost as though he sees our words as an endorsement of his plan; bearing in mind that at this point the orb hasn't been destroyed, so he is still thinking that once you defeat Corypheus, he is going to pick it up and continue from where he left off.     It should also be remembered that Solas doesn't believe in good and evil; just cause and effect.   

 

The only thing that I feel could possibly justify his actions would be the presence of the Blight and Red Lyrium in the world.    May be the world is already doomed, since red lyrium can grow on anything, so it needs wiping clean with a strong dose of Fade magic.     However, there seems a strong possibility that these already existed before the Veil went up, in which case tearing it down again will not make any difference at all.    So I think that is unlikely to be the reason why the world has to die.



#24
dgcatanisiri

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Solas is pride. That's not just his name, it's the name he chose. This is what he wants to be known as. He chooses to be referred to as 'pride.'

 

And his motives are (based on what we know at the moment) pretty simple - he sealed away the Enavuris to save the elves, and, in the process, split the world of spirits and the world of mortals. What he has awoken to is a world where the elves are the lowest possible tier, and those who even attempt to remember their history and culture can do no more than, to him, make a mockery of it because of the gaps. And it's denied the spirits the ability to interact - it has almost literally broken the world, as he sees it, in two, where neither side can truly touch the other.

 

He wants to restore the world to what it was because he knew that world, that world was the one that made sense to him. This one... It's a cruel mockery of the world as he knew it, a broken world of blind children, stumbling around. He sees himself as the only one who can bring sight and wisdom back, and, because of his pride, cannot see that this world has its own value and worth. To him, it's nothing compared to the world he knew, and thus, has no value.



#25
Carmen_Willow

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Great discussion everyone. I have nothing to add, but I truly enjoyed reading the posts here, and I think that the theories as to why he is doing this is well-covered in the discussion.

 

I love the fact that we have a villain who isn't twirling his mustache and chuckling "Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha" as he ties the maiden to the stone to be eaten by the dragon. Let's hope Bioware can live up to the promise of this character. I think they can, I hope they can.


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