22 réponses à ce sujet

[KamuiStorm]

So we have the all this incredible technology and minds that birthed the geth, reapers, ai, vi, etc all into existence. Where, if I recall correctly, where are human/alien bladerunner like replicants? Am I missing something? Has no one or any organization for that matter delved into replicants? Edi does not count, before or after ash got the holy hell beaten out of her. Imagine, just imagine. Replicants in mass effect, not t-800s, not cyborgs but a biorobotic android like gen 3 synths of fallout but more human.

Virtually identical to an adult human, with superior strength, agility, and variable intelligence. Identifiable by a single test, a series of questions with the intent of provoking an emotional response. This means they are almost entirely organic, Replicants are more humanoid than they are metal, I would even say human.


Where are these creations in mass effect? Sure geth and reapers have that external all powerful robotic apocalypse cliche down but to my knowledge replicants do not exist in ME. Perhaps with Andromeda infront of us and milky way behind us the possibility for ME replicants is gone. It is late thus I post this in haste as the sandman buggeth me. What do you guys feel & think on ME introducing replicants? If I am mistaken on an ME version of a replicant not existing then provide a source as I would enjoy reading it but in the lore I was unable to find such a thing. Just geth.

[Onewomanarmy]

It'd be cool to have them I think xD

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

i'd like to have a replicant of me, after all i'm perfect

[straykat]

It's a better story about AI than Ancient Artifacts and cycles and Reapers. At least those were about examining the science and folly of one's own creations.

 

That said, Bladerunner/Alien shared a universe. That's what I liked.. the whole package. And the corrupt corporations. Not just the AI stuff by itself.

[ZipZap2000]

Can they be an LI?

[pkypereira]

Can they be an LI?

 

after seeing what happened to the BSN overnight, I think I am going to pursue celibacy.

[N7M]

It would be neat if there was an amalgam of the personalities of the Replicants from Dick's novels that was a member of the crew or a squadmate. A character who could convey some on the ideas from the novel as well as introducing new ones. 

Maybe Glyph could be that if provided the proper form by an Andromeda species. Liara did mention she hadn't had a chance to get into the settings. Perhaps, the player could be given access to those settings. What the player chooses in the settings and through dialogue and interaction develops and brings out Glyph's identity and physical form. 

If Glyph is revealed as a singularity experiment that has no memory and can be cloned it may be helpful as it could bring to the fore the idea that the conscious self is more than the sum of memory and the properties of the brain while providing some wild thought speculation.

 

Here's a speculative article, not altogether irrelevant, on the effect of extreme mass and cloning information.

http://www.bbc.com/e...would-clone-you

[Halfdan The Menace]

I do want a Viking replicant... seem perfect, with its superior strength and stuff.

[KaiserShep]

Can they be an LI?

 

 

Well, there's always Fallout 4 since you can romance a synth. 

[KamuiStorm]

Well, there's always Fallout 4 since you can romance a synth.

I'm dating every single companion in fo4, but Curry is my faves

[ArabianIGoggles]

I'm dating every single companion in fo4, but Curry is my faves

With that voice how could she not be your favorite?

[Tatar Foras]

I'm dating every single companion in fo4, but Curry is my faves

Curie is love, Curie is life. Seriously though a synth type companion would be cool, maybe initially you don't know that they're a synth and then as your relationship develops they reveal the truth. 

[KamuiStorm]

Curie is love, Curie is life. Seriously though a synth type companion would be cool, maybe initially you don't know that they're a synth and then as your relationship develops they reveal the truth.

praise be to our synthetic French empress!! I agree, it would be amazing. Especially seeing as how organics and synthetics seem to always be at odds for whatever reason is being shoveled down our galactic throats.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Curie is love, Curie is life. Seriously though a synth type companion would be cool, maybe initially you don't know that they're a synth and then as your relationship develops they reveal the truth.

I haven't played but aren't there companions like that. No spoilers.

[N7M]

...  organics and synthetics seem to always be at odds for whatever reason is being shoveled down our galactic throats.

 

This may be based off the argument that individuals and by extension communities become enslaved by their own creations. Creations that may have served a positive developmental purpose for people but have been corrupted or stagnated as societies and individuals progressed to a point where these creations in their current manifestation are hampering further positive growth. Be it something like religious or secular institutions or simple personal bigotries. With cases where it is on a personal level it is simply a matter of honest self analysis and personal growth to be dealt with but with institutions the matter is much more difficult as it takes a focused Will of the People, an abstract of group consciousness, to make the necessary alterations or destroy the creation. It is an idea that has been and continues to be valid to explore in fiction.

In terms of A.I, according to some metaphysical theories, ideas are considered to be living beings. As children of their creators, these living thoughts may grow and develop on their own and influence and can learn from those that interact with them and they possesses a Will to Survive. It may be that concept is also being explored. 

[StoxRegalia]

Hey guys! Wouldn't it be cool if they took something from my favorite scifi and crammed it into this game?

[GDICanuck]

Hey guys! Wouldn't it be cool if they took something from my favorite scifi and crammed it into this game?

Well now that you mention it...

Spoiler

[KamuiStorm]

Well now that you mention it...

Spoiler

  
I was literally just thinking that, haha

This may be based off the argument that individuals and by extension communities become enslaved by their own creations. Creations that may have served a positive developmental purpose for people but have been corrupted or stagnated as societies and individuals progressed to a point where these creations in their current manifestation are hampering further positive growth. Be it something like religious or secular institutions or simple personal bigotries. With cases where it is on a personal level it is simply a matter of honest self analysis and personal growth to be dealt with but with institutions the matter is much more difficult as it takes a focused Will of the People, an abstract of group consciousness, to make the necessary alterations or destroy the creation. It is an idea that has been and continues to be valid to explore in fiction.
In terms of A.I, according to some metaphysical theories, ideas are considered to be living beings. As children of their creators, these living thoughts may grow and develop on their own and influence and can learn from those that interact with them and they possesses a Will to Survive. It may be that concept is also being explored.

I agree completely

[Kabooooom]

So we have the all this incredible technology and minds that birthed the geth, reapers, ai, vi, etc all into existence. Where, if I recall correctly, where are human/alien bladerunner like replicants? Am I missing something? Has no one or any organization for that matter delved into replicants? Edi does not count, before or after ash got the holy hell beaten out of her. Imagine, just imagine. Replicants in mass effect, not t-800s, not cyborgs but a biorobotic android like gen 3 synths of fallout but more human.

Virtually identical to an adult human, with superior strength, agility, and variable intelligence. Identifiable by a single test, a series of questions with the intent of provoking an emotional response. This means they are almost entirely organic, Replicants are more humanoid than they are metal, I would even say human.


Where are these creations in mass effect? Sure geth and reapers have that external all powerful robotic apocalypse cliche down but to my knowledge replicants do not exist in ME. Perhaps with Andromeda infront of us and milky way behind us the possibility for ME replicants is gone. It is late thus I post this in haste as the sandman buggeth me. What do you guys feel & think on ME introducing replicants? If I am mistaken on an ME version of a replicant not existing then provide a source as I would enjoy reading it but in the lore I was unable to find such a thing. Just geth.

The idea of a replicant is kind of stupid to be honest. An android that is cybernetic but with a synthetic exterior resembling an organic (ex: EDI at the start of ME3) would not fit the definition you stated. A similar case of a synthetic with a living, external biological skin might...but they are still synthetic on the interior - a synthetic brain, ultimately.

And what of an organic that has integrated cybernetic technology so thoroughly within themselves that they are basically part synthetic? That wouldn't fit the definition either.

The definition of replicant used in stories like Bladerunner is, as I understand it, more akin to an android than anything else.

I also take issue with the whole "we will ask them a particular question and it will short circuit their brain and make it clear they are a replicant" nonsense. Why?? A truly intelligent synthetic mind couldn't be short circuited in that fashion any more than an organic one would, and you could presumably endow emotion to them same as an organic. And unless I'm missing something, why would you even have to do that in the first place? Run them through a friggin MRI or, if they are composed of synthetic material that is superficially indistinguishable from organic tissue on the macroscale, then analyze a tissue sample.

[KamuiStorm]

The idea of a replicant is kind of stupid to be honest. An android that is cybernetic but with a synthetic exterior resembling an organic (ex: EDI at the start of ME3) would not fit the definition you stated. A similar case of a synthetic with a living, external biological skin might...but they are still synthetic on the interior - a synthetic brain, ultimately.
And what of an organic that has integrated cybernetic technology so thoroughly within themselves that they are basically part synthetic? That wouldn't fit the definition either.
The definition of replicant used in stories like Bladerunner is, as I understand it, more akin to an android than anything else.
I also take issue with the whole "we will ask them a particular question and it will short circuit their brain and make it clear they are a replicant" nonsense. Why?? A truly intelligent synthetic mind couldn't be short circuited in that fashion any more than an organic one would, and you could presumably endow emotion to them same as an organic. And unless I'm missing something, why would you even have to do that in the first place? Run them through a friggin MRI or, if they are composed of synthetic material that is superficially indistinguishable from organic tissue on the macroscale, then analyze a tissue sample.

You propose valid points, no one will deny that well maybe zipzap but that's in another thread. No but seriously, I understand where you're coming from and you do make good points. However, my personal theory is that the replicants are basically 100% genetically engineered/cloned human beings, their physical strength or intelligence is boosted by genetic engineering to the highest limits humanly possible. Assuming they aren't shipped sterile by Tyrell they could likely impregnate or be impregnated by "real" humans. If I recall correctly the film's explanations for what replicants truly are never delved deeply enough into specificity on them, so you'll have some on one side of the spectrum referring to them as synthetic cyborgs/androids while ohers may even go so far as to say they're a new species. Now yes android and cyborg and even synthetics will make people think of mechanized interiors with a layer of skin over the gears and mechanisms.

Now a android is a robotic entity designed to resemble a human while a cyborg is a organic organism that is part robotic. Two sides of the same coin, andriods will always be humanoid where as cyborgs have a vast range of forms. I.e animals, humans, inanimate objects etc. A synthetic takes this a bit further as an example look at fallout 4. Three main variants dubbed gens 1/2/ &3 with a few sub variants in gens 1 & 2.

Gen 1 synths are your run of the mill basic bot. A simple endoskeleton that looks like a human. Just like every single terminator we see in flashbacks and such. Gen 2s are more realistic, think of them as t-600s which are basically the same as gen 1 but with an artificially created skin. Gen 3 are the big boys, full on t-800/replicant status.

This was taken from fo wiki "The Generation 3 synths are much like Replicants from Blade Runner, based on the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, in that they are synthetic humans genetically engineered entirely out of organic substances and are virtually indistinguishable from real human beings."

Replicants are born from and entirely out of organic substances, they ARE human yet they aren't. They lack what makes humans human which is why the questionnaire test used works. They are ill equipped to properly handle and respond to the questions however they can learn thus to adapt and be human while still not being human. They're more or less ditto if ditto became a human instead of a pokemon and was a damned genius. I may or may not have completely failed to respond directly to your statement and got side tracked but mehhh.

The reason the Voight-Kampff test works is due to the fact it looks for emotional reactions that are conditioned by living in society, since the replicants first woke up only years before they never learned these. They are children.

[Kabooooom]

You propose valid points, no one will deny that well maybe zipzap but that's in another thread. No but seriously, I understand where you're coming from and you do make good points. However, my personal theory is that the replicants are basically 100% genetically engineered/cloned human beings, their physical strength or intelligence is boosted by genetic engineering to the highest limits humanly possible. Assuming they aren't shipped sterile by Tyrell they could likely impregnate or be impregnated by "real" humans. If I recall correctly the film's explanations for what replicants truly are never delved deeply enough into specificity on them, so you'll have some on one side of the spectrum referring to them as synthetic cyborgs/androids while ohers may even go so far as to say they're a new species. Now yes android and cyborg and even synthetics will make people think of mechanized interiors with a layer of skin over the gears and mechanisms.

Now a android is a robotic entity designed to resemble a human while a cyborg is a organic organism that is part robotic. Two sides of the same coin, andriods will always be humanoid where as cyborgs have a vast range of forms. I.e animals, humans, inanimate objects etc. A synthetic takes this a bit further as an example look at fallout 4. Three main variants dubbed gens 1/2/ &3 with a few sub variants in gens 1 & 2.

Gen 1 synths are your run of the mill basic bot. A simple endoskeleton that looks like a human. Just like every single terminator we see in flashbacks and such. Gen 2s are more realistic, think of them as t-600s which are basically the same as gen 1 but with an artificially created skin. Gen 3 are the big boys, full on t-800/replicant status.

This was taken from fo wiki "The Generation 3 synths are much like Replicants from Blade Runner, based on the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, in that they are synthetic humans genetically engineered entirely out of organic substances and are virtually indistinguishable from real human beings."

Replicants are born from and entirely out of organic substances, they ARE human yet they aren't. They lack what makes humans human which is why the questionnaire test used works. They are ill equipped to properly handle and respond to the questions however they can learn thus to adapt and be human while still not being human. They're more or less ditto if ditto became a human instead of a pokemon and was a damned genius. I may or may not have completely failed to respond directly to your statement and got side tracked but mehhh.

The reason the Voight-Kampff test works is due to the fact it looks for emotional reactions that are conditioned by living in society, since the replicants first woke up only years before they never learned these. They are children.

Interesting, Bladerunner is one of my favorite movies but I heavily got the impression from the narrative that the Replicants were essentially Androids. Guess they aren't.

What you are describing is basically no different than a genetically engineered and cloned human being. One could even imagine artificially tweaking memories and neural architecture to create a comparatively mature mind in a short period of time. Such technology (memory implantation) has already been accomplished with laboratory mice, in a very primitive fashion.

Such a being would simply be an organic, plain and simple. Comparing them to androids or AIs is like comparing apples and oranges. They are both fruit, just different. An android and a replicant, as you've described them, are both conscious beings, just different.

I would argue that a civilization that is sufficiently advanced to create a being like that, should be sufficiently advanced to detect them in a more intricate fashion than making them take an amusing questionnaire.

For example, by your description of Replicants, there absolutely would be a difference between them and a normal human. Externally, no - but the difference is internal, at the level of individual synapses and the neural networks that have formed. And that difference could be imaged in detail. A primitive project of cataloguing every synapse in the human brain is currently being undertaken by the Allen Brain Institute. Currently, this requires dead tissue, sliced and imaged with electron microscopy and then three dimensionally reconstructed into a neural network by a supercomputer. One could imagine a sufficiently advanced society having the ability to do that with a living brain. I read MRIs every day as a part of my job. It images a living brain in millimeter slices at a macroscale resolution. I can imagine a technology that could do something similar at nanometer slices at a microscale resolution.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Hey guys! Wouldn't it be cool if they took something from my favorite scifi and crammed it into this game?

 

What do you think Mass Effect is? It has elements of Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5 and half a dozen other sci-fi works. It's about as original and unique as a mixtape.

[Kabooooom]

What do you think Mass Effect is? It has elements of Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5 and half a dozen other sci-fi works. It's about as original and unique as a mixtape.

There's probably easily over thirty different direct references or blatant ripoffs (*cough* Rachni *cough* Ender's game) in Mass Effect to be honest.

But that's one of the things I love about it. I think part of the reason the universe is so engrossing to me is because of the vast number of Sci fi references that I had familiarity with.