118 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

 

-Shapeshifter don't heal just because they change form= fact my assumption based on how I feel right now, not by anything told to us in-universe about Morrigan as a dragon.

-The Orb magic was a non factor for the two dragons in battle= fact my wild assumption not based on anything

-Thedas Gravity is reasonably at the same numerical value of Irl gravity otherwise human life form would not  exist= fact my wild assumption not based on anything and ignoring the fact that dragons are mythical creatures that can't really fly

-Mythal dragon die for the clash= fact my wild assumption not based on anything 

 

 

Fixed that for ya. 

[Almostfaceman]

 

Morrigan survival is not in harmony with  the same rules portrayed in the same setting which effectively killed several characters like Riordan and the Flemythal dragon.

 

 

Ew, Riordan is a male, non-shapeshifting, non-magical-using dude. His interactions with an archdemon (another unique dragon) is irrelevant to this conversation.  

 

Flemeth is a unique character, with unique powers. She's a quasi-Mythal. She can't be compared to anyone, let alone Morrigan. 

 

Morrigan has taken her own path magically and is put in a unique situation, both geographically and magically. Your assessment neglects these factors and makes assumptions about Morrigans battle based on insufficient data. 

[In Exile]

 

There are explicit or understood regulations or principles governing gravity that conduct to a particular preciseness behind thy claim?

Quetzalcoatlus northropi weren't denied from existence by gravity true they weren't dragons but surely they were big flying animals.

Morrigan survival is not in harmony with  the same rules portrayed in the same setting which effectively killed several characters like Riordan and the Flemythal dragon.

 

You're citing the scene where Riordan attempts the equivalent of hitting a bullet with another bullet - a scene where, I might add, the actual leap should have killed him even if he landed on the AD - as proof that the basic rules of our reality govern the setting?

[Kantr]

Who's to say the sembling back into a human didn't heal the majority of her wounds? We don't know how shape shifting works in healing damage 

[German Soldier]

Fixed that for ya.

Manipulate my own posts which possess their own in setting proofs and delete sentences just to fit your bias is a form of intellectual dishonesty
Those who disagree should at least say why they disagree with proofs and examples of reasonably arguments rather than mock others


1)Shapeshifters don't heal damages just because they returned to their original form and this is a fact because they are not healers.
Shapeshifters mages are in Amaranthine and they don't heal when they revert back to their human form in combat,just as Morrigan don't heal herself in battle in DAO when she return from whatever form to her human form=fact
,same for Flemeth who is killed in her dragon form in DAO.
Wild assumptions is try to elaborate an unsupported evidence without any case o any proof or any demonstration just for your bias toward Morrigan..

2)The Orb magic did not influence the two dragons in flying combat whom flying ability was not undermined by the levitation=fact
just as the Mythal guardian was not spared from the clash with the floor.


3)Try to argue that the gravity in Thedas is totally different than IRL is a form of contrived nonsense in fact it is not the case otherwise everything would be totally different,from the life forms to the buildings ecc..

4)The Mythal guardian die in the battle fact
http://dragonage.wik...rdian_of_Mythal ,it was tamed and of the Inquisitor but the Inquisitor can't use it anymore because is dead

[German Soldier]

Who's to say the sembling back into a human didn't heal the majority of her wounds? We don't know how shape shifting works in healing damage 

Not possible the shapeshifting branch do not include any healing bonus from damages when the caster return to the original form.

We have plenty of shapeshifters opponents in DAO and they don't heal when they return to their original form,same is for Morrigan in DAO,same is for the warden of DAO who learn this ability.

[n7stormrunner]

 

Not possible the shapeshifting branch do not include any healing bonus from damages when the caster return to the original form.

We have plenty of shapeshifters opponents in DAO and they don't heal when they return to their original form,same is for Morrigan in DAO,same is for the warden of DAO who learn this ability.

 

 

 

she rearranging herself in a dragon which I'm not sure if not humanoid and much larger... assume the extra mass if from the fade there is nothing to say she can't decide the damage is on the fade mass not her mass. and game mechanic =/= in universe reality other wise we lose player members every time one of them died.

[German Soldier]

she rearranging herself in a dragon which I'm not sure if not humanoid and much larger... assume the extra mass if from the fade there is nothing to say she can't decide the damage is on the fade mass not her mass. and game mechanic =/= in universe reality other wise we lose player members every time one of them died.

The shapeshifting ability is a form of magic that do not use the fade energy to create the mass of the new body form,it copy the critter soul and behaviour it is explained and Morrigan can possibly grant to the warden this knowledge as a gift.
You become the animal and every damage took from the animal form is took by the original caster as well.
There is no gameplay lore segregation here since the colossal Mythal guardian die in the battle while Morrigan don't,this is simply an evident case of plot armor.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Manipulate my own posts which possess their own in setting proofs and delete sentences just to fit your bias is a form of intellectual dishonesty
Those who disagree should at least say why they disagree with proofs and examples of reasonably arguments rather than mock others


1)Shapeshifters don't heal damages just because they returned to their original form and this is a fact because they are not healers.
Shapeshifters mages are in Amaranthine and they don't heal when they revert back to their human form in combat,just as Morrigan don't heal herself in battle in DAO when she return from whatever form to her human form=fact
,same for Flemeth who is killed in her dragon form in DAO.
Wild assumptions is try to elaborate an unsupported evidence without any case o any proof or any demonstration just for your bias toward Morrigan..

2)The Orb magic did not influence the two dragons in flying combat whom flying ability was not undermined by the levitation=fact
just as the Mythal guardian was not spared from the clash with the floor.


3)Try to argue that the gravity in Thedas is totally different than IRL is a form of contrived nonsense in fact it is not the case otherwise everything would be totally different,from the life forms to the buildings ecc..

4)The Mythal guardian die in the battle fact
http://dragonage.wik...rdian_of_Mythal ,it was tamed and of the Inquisitor but the Inquisitor can't use it anymore because is dead

How dare you?
We are all just a bunch of hypocrites who are making assumptions!

[Bfler]

Uh? where is this barrier spell aside from your personal headcanon?

The dragon  form of Morrigan wasn't protected by any barrier and was smashed on the ground and it survived via plot armor.

 

Don't act stupid on purpose. A mage can cast it on themself. There is enough time for Morrigan to do it during the fall.

 

The Warden in DA:O also survives the end of the Ostagar battle, although pierced by a dozen of darkspawn arrows. Shepard survives a direct hit of Harbinger at the end of ME3. It's a fantasy video game, therefore use your imagination.

[Almostfaceman]

How dare you?
We are all just a bunch of hypocrites who are making assumptions!

 

Hypocrites? Not sure where you got that from, certainly wasn't from me. 

 

Making assumptions? Definitely. 

[In Exile]

3)Try to argue that the gravity in Thedas is totally different than IRL is a form of contrived nonsense in fact it is not the case otherwise everything would be totally different,from the life forms to the buildings ecc..

You mean, like, I don't know, having flying fire breathing dragons, 8 foot tall grey-skinned giants, and a substantial population having the power to shoot lightning out of their hands? Or how about all those floating rocks everywhere literally in the level we are on? Last time I checked my "Fundamental Rules of Physics™" manual, it pointed out that anti-gravity is nonsense. 

[Almostfaceman]

1)Shapeshifters don't heal damages blah blah blah

 

I've used the word "unique" factually to describe the whole scenario. You do know what the word means, right? So, it's not evidence to the situation to provide anything about general shapeshifters...

 

And that's making an assumption about shapeshifters of which there's little data. 

[German Soldier]

Don't act stupid on purpose. A mage can cast it on themself. There is enough time for Morrigan to do it during the fall.

 

The Warden in DA:O also survives the end of the Ostagar battle, although pierced by a dozen of darkspawn arrows. Shepard survives a direct hit of Harbinger at the end of ME3. It's a fantasy video game, therefore use your imagination.

Magical barriers have nothing to do with the scenario being discussed,saying that the dragon form of Morrigan was surrounded by a magical barrier is an assumption not a fact,in the scene i didn't see any form of barrier around her dragon form nor you have any proof that  mages can cast such spell when they are in a different form and with the jaws of another dragon in their body..

The warden of DAO got a bunch of arrows in the tower of Ishal yes,yet i fail to understand what this have to do with the scenario being discussed

The warden got some arrows while being protected by an armor and later on was cured by the healing magic of an Evanuris so where is  the parallel?

 

You mean, like, I don't know, having flying fire breathing dragons, 8 foot tall grey-skinned giants, and a substantial population having the power to shoot lightning out of their hands? Or how about all those floating rocks everywhere literally in the level we are on? Last time I checked my "Fundamental Rules of Physics™" manual, it pointed out that anti-gravity is nonsense. 

The fact that magical creatures and/or magical means that are able to levitate (like Corypheus and the Architect) and evade gravity do exist in this setting,or that 8 foot tall critters exists (then again what's the problem with this?Apatosaurus were even bigger than any DA critters) have nothing to do with the scenario being discussed,which is how a person can survive after took all those damages without evading gravity because Morrigan didn't dodged the final clash .

You are making up stuff and points that have little if nothing to do with the topic.

 

I've used the word "unique" factually to describe the whole scenario. You do know what the word means, right? So, it's not evidence to the situation to provide anything about general shapeshifters...

 

And that's making an assumption about shapeshifters of which there's little data. 

Clearly that link does not contradict anything of my previous posts instead is just a confirmation.

The shapeshifters gain more health and a general increase on their physical prowess when they copy the critters through their spell power.

When they return in their original form such gains are lost.

Morrigan-Flemeth dragon form have more health than Morrigan-Flemeth human form, if they lose their dragon shape they lose all those physical gains.

With the well of sorrow Morrigan become strong enough to learn and copy a dragon and gain it's attributes that's it.

In the battle she lost the dragon form and as such any gains she obtained through the dragon shape is lost as it should be lost her life as well,like Flemeth in her hut,because kill the animal form does equate in killing the original caster and Flemeth collapsed in her dragon form.

 

If by insufficient Data you mean improbable hypotheses like gravity suppositions

(it could be different in thedas is 3,0 that's why she survived...), or Morrigan may had some special trick up its sleeve,or The Orb did something while i clearly saw that it did not influenced the two dragons in battle

(in fact the mythal guardian is dead for gravity issue and it was not protected by the Orb) 

then of course on my perspective you definition of insufficient data is not appropriate.

nor undermine any of my points.

If i'm going to say that old gods are shapeshifters then claims like insufficient data do make sense,in this case they don't make sense.

[Almostfaceman]

 

You are making up stuff and points that have little if nothing to do with the topic.

 

If by insufficient Data you mean improbable hypotheses like gravity suppositions

 

 

Nobody is "making up stuff". We're explaining why this is a unique situation, then not making assumptions based on generic magic users and generic situations. We don't know why Morrigan lives. Just like we don't know why Corypants can live after being exploded, Corypoop can make a dragon a pseudo-arch-demon, and Coryeerifeeus can levitate entire castles. We also don't know why Flemeth can turn into a dragon and separate herself into multiple pieces. Or why Morrigan can turn into a magical dragon and the Inquisitor can't. We're trying to explain to you that there are unknowns. It's a unique situation. A unique battle. With unique characters. The writers of Dragon Age have deliberately not supplied you with enough information to explain everything about what's going on. You and anyone else pretending you do have enough information to know what's going on, are the one applying generic information to a unique situation... which doesn't work.

 

Unique - 

adjective

1.

existing as the only one or as the sole example; single; solitary in type or characteristics:

a unique copy of an ancient manuscript.

2.

having no like or equal; unparalleled; incomparable:

Bach was unique in his handling of counterpoint.

3.

limited in occurrence to a given class, situation, or area:

a species unique to Australia.

4.

limited to a single outcome or result; without alternative possibilities:

Certain types of problems have unique solutions.

5.

not typical; unusual:

She has a very unique smile.

 

noun

6.

the embodiment of unique characteristics; the only specimen of a given kind:

The unique is also the improbable.

[Serza]

Morrigan obtained the Spirit Healer spec in all my playthroughs. It's not too much of a stretch to think a majority of people did this.

[German Soldier]

 

Nobody is "making up stuff". We're explaining why this is a unique situation, then not making assumptions based on generic magic users and generic situations. We don't know why Morrigan lives. Just like we don't know why Corypants can live after being exploded, Corypoop can make a dragon a pseudo-arch-demon, and Coryeerifeeus can levitate entire castles. We also don't know why Flemeth can turn into a dragon and separate herself into multiple pieces. Or why Morrigan can turn into a magical dragon and the Inquisitor can't. We're trying to explain to you that there are unknowns. It's a unique situation. A unique battle. With unique characters. The writers of Dragon Age have deliberately not supplied you with enough information to explain everything about what's going on. You and anyone else pretending you do have enough information to know what's going on, are the one applying generic information to a unique situation... which doesn't work.

 

Unique - 

adjective

1.

existing as the only one or as the sole example; single; solitary in type or characteristics:

a unique copy of an ancient manuscript.

2.

having no like or equal; unparalleled; incomparable:

Bach was unique in his handling of counterpoint.

3.

limited in occurrence to a given class, situation, or area:

a species unique to Australia.

4.

limited to a single outcome or result; without alternative possibilities:

Certain types of problems have unique solutions.

5.

not typical; unusual:

She has a very unique smile.

 

noun

6.

the embodiment of unique characteristics; the only specimen of a given kind:

The unique is also the improbable.

 

Most of these comparisons are totally unfitting and untied to be considered as a proper confrontation between characters unique situations.

 

-Corypheus is totally unfitting to be used as a parallel for the Morrigan survival,since not only his immortality was explained through his own soul reincarnation but even how he made that dragon,by infecting with red lyrium an high dragon and bound it with his soul.

Of course if you are looking for detailed and scrupulous explanations of how the body surf  magic work there will be no asnwer of exactitude since this is a game whom purpose is focus on the narrative consistency not a book of chemistry,that doesn't mean however that his survival was not logic in the setting of the game,since he died from the damges and used later his soul to come back from the deads.

Corypheus can't levitate anything other than himslef it is the Orb who was no more under his control who did the levitation on the castle

 

 

-Flemeth survival as well as her shapeshifting powers were explained through her story with the fragment of Mythal,then again if you are going to look for scrupulous detailed info as for how her magic operate at the atomic level there will be no answer because DA is a game that focus on the narrative consistency not a book of physics however this does not mean that her survival is contrived because it was completely foreshadowed since DAO,in fact her body "died" and later she was resurrected..

 

If the writers in a next DA4 will try to include the Architect they would be perfectly legitimated to do that even if the warden killed him,because he can possess the same abilities of Corypheus,if the writers will try to include Gharael in DA4 then it is contrived nosense because the narrative consistency is broken.

 

Compared to Corypheus and FLemeth,Morrigan does not possess any foreshadowing ability that explain through magical means her survival against the red lyrium dragon nor her situation does classfy as "unique",nor the physical condition of the incident explained why she survived since in the same scenario the other dragon the Mythal guardian is dead,while morrigan not only survived but didn't even suffered permanent damages on her body while the red lyrium dragon which was not clashed on the floor and won the battle lost half life force...

There is basically nothing to make a reasonable assumption that explain her survival,no set of hypotheses through the in game revelations,nothing.

 

Morrigan obtained the Spirit Healer spec in all my playthroughs. It's not too much of a stretch to think a majority of people did this.

The clash is an instant kill damage, no healing can help from such drastic situations.

Is like to say that Wynne will try to heal herself after being dead.

 

 

[AlanC9]

I'm not sure what anyone's trying to prove here. It's been years since we had access to Morrigan's full slate of abilities. That's plenty of time for her to pick up any new trick Bio wants her to have learned.

[Almostfaceman]

 

Compared to Corypheus and FLemeth,Morrigan does not possess any foreshadowing ability that explain through magical means her survival against the red lyrium dragon,nor the physical condition of the incident explained why she survived since in the same scenario the other dragon the Mythal guardian is dead..

 

 

By your own convoluted logic Corypanties should never have been able to resurrect himself (which, by the way, is never fully explained and is unique to his character) because it wasn't "foreshadowed". Remember, he was introduced in Dragon Age 2. The only thing that was foreshadowed about Mr. Cory was he was so powerful the Wardens had to imprison him. That could be for a multitude of reasons.

 

Sorry, that doesn't work. It's perfectly legit for a writer to introduce a new character or new ability without any foreshadowing. 

 

Not that the Morrigan situation fits anyway. Nobody knows, nor has it been explained, what Morrigan has learned from the Well. The story doesn't explain everything the Well teaches the Inquisitor. The story doesn't explain any details about the Mythal dragon, or Morrigan in dragon form. All unique situations. After all, it isn't every day somebody drinks from an ancient elve's trove of wisdom passed on through multitudes of other elves in some weird magical soup. It certainly isn't every day that someone turns into a Well-induced-dragon, nor is it every day that Morrigan turns into a Well-induced-dragon. It's a unique situation that isn't explained. No magical spells are described, nor are their limits, varieties, flavors, moods. 

 

Morrigan herself is a unique mage. We don't know what she's learned from Flemeth. We have hints of some of what she's learned, but not everything. Then Morrigan traipses off by herself and learns a bunch more while exploring and studying ancient lore. We don't know most of the details about that either. That's what makes her dangerous and that's what makes her interesting. We don't know any details about Morrigans unique knowledge from her travels and from the Well and what affect that knowledge may have on her shape-shifted dragon form. Obviously, it was a powerful enough spell to let her survive a fight with another unique dragon, the Corypants dragon.

 

It's also what makes her character flexible enough to go through weird and unique situations that the story explores. 

 

Then we have Corypants, who's magical powers come completely out of left field. Both in Dragon Age 2 (watch that fight) and Dragon Age Inquisition. Solas hints at what Corypants may be doing. But nobody knows how. All you've explained is what Cory did. Not how he did it, nor what all the permutations may be, or the limitations, side effects, range limits... you have absolutely no data at all to explain what the "Hey let's levitate a castle" spell does. All you see is two dragons coping with the situation as they try to fight. The game simply doesn't tell you anything about what the spell may or may not do to them, let alone what a plummeting dragon landing on a "floating" platform will or will not do to three completely unique dragons.

 

The Mythal dragon is not the same as the Cory dragon or the Morrigan dragon. All have three unique sources and have three unique outcomes from their fight in the unique battlefield. We don't know how strong each's armor is, is the Cory dragon depleted uranium grade and Morrigan is aluminium grade and she's just really fast? We don't know if the Mythal dragon just came from having lunch, had a cramp during the fight and "died" because it had trouble digesting a goat bone.

 

 

Obviously, there are enough unknowns to not leap to another assumption, that Morrigan is some writers pet character. I'd consider myself rude if I made that assumption about some author I didn't know. 

[German Soldier]

I'm not sure what anyone's trying to prove here. It's been years since we had access to Morrigan's full slate of abilities. That's plenty of time for her to pick up any new trick Bio wants her to have learned.

I'm not sure either about why some people are making hardcore assumptions about how a person survive a fall from the sky and serious damages took from the bites of an infected dragon withut any explanation.

1)In those years Morrigan spent most of the times in learning about Eluvian not in the art of bungee jumping

2)she should be dead because she was infected by a tainted dragon via bite

3)she should be dead because she fell from the sky to the floor and no magic can save you unless it grant immortality

[Almostfaceman]

 

I'm not sure either about why some people are making hardcore assumptions 

 

Nobody's making assumptions about how they did it, you're making assumptions about why they shouldn't have been able to do it. 

[Secret Rare]

By your own convoluted logic Corypanties should never have been able to resurrect himself (which, by the way, is never fully explained and is unique to his character) because it wasn't "foreshadowed". Remember, he was introduced in Dragon Age 2. The only thing that was foreshadowed about Mr. Cory was he was so powerful the Wardens had to imprison him. That could be for a multitude of reasons.

 

Sorry, that doesn't work. It's perfectly legit for a writer to introduce a new character or new ability without any foreshadowing. 

 

 

Except that Corypheus die multiple times and then resurrect via magical ability while Morrigan took an insane amount of damages without dying,two totally different cases in which one is called narrative device through  in setting rules while the other is called plot armor.

 

 

 

snip

Recycled assumptions that don't care to focus on the very question that was being posed and that ignore the focus of the discussion.

How she survived against the force of gravity from an altitude of several Km from the floor while being attacked by another dragon without bringing any damages?

 

 

 

 

Obviously, there are enough unknowns to not leap to another assumption, that Morrigan is some writers pet character. I'd consider myself rude if I made that assumption about some author I didn't know. 

Morrigan is a writer pet in which she was protected several times with plot armors from Gaider:

a)The warden that attached her pushed her through the mirror instead to finish her

b)The warden that attached her didn't cross the Eluvian to finish her despite the mirror was perfectly functional after that she was injured

c)The warden didn't attached Morrigan into a vital point of her body despite it was easy to do that.

d)The red lyrium dragon won against her,she was bitten(and this dragon is tainted and also a red lyrium vector so it is highly infectious) and crushed her on the floor from an high altitude yet she survived without dying and without any damages and without being infected for no reason other than plot armor.

So much for not being a writer pet.

 

 

[Almostfaceman]

editor is a mess, response in next post

[Almostfaceman]

Except that Corypheus die multiple times and then resurrect via magical ability while Morrigan took an insane amount of damages without dying,two totally different cases in which one is called narrative device through  in setting rules while the other is called plot armor.

 

Irrelevant to my point, which was that "something can't be introduced without foreshadowing" is ridiculous. 

 

 

 

Recycled assumptions that don't care to focus on the very question that was being posed and that ignore the focus of the discussion.How she survived against the force of gravity from an altitude of several Km from the floor while being attacked by another dragon without bringing any damages?

 

Canned response that just repeats the question already asked/answered and doesn't attempt to address any points brought into the discussion from anyone with an opposing viewpoint. 

 

 

Morrigan is a writer pet in which she was protected several times with plot armors from Gaider:a)The warden that attached her pushed her through the mirror instead to finish herb)The warden that attached her didn't cross the Eluvian to finish her despite the mirror was perfectly functional after that she was injuredc)The warden didn't attached Morrigan into a vital point of her body despite it was easy to do that.d)The red lyrium dragon won against her,she was bitten(and this dragon is tainted and also a red lyrium vector so it is highly infectious) and crushed her on the floor from an high altitude yet she survived without dying and without any damages and without being infected for no reason other than plot armor.So much for not being a writer pet.

 

You attack some of the variables of one game ending state, then extrapolate that into something that happens in another game that's not related. Of course it doesn't take into account anything in the story. Assumptive logic.. again. Plus, you just repeat what's been said by the OP multiple times. Saying something over and over again doesn't make it correct. But it does ignore any counterpoints. 

 

The safe, reasonable, and polite thing to do is not to make assumptions about why a writer or team of writers do something with their story. Nobody here is a mind reader, has been in any of the dev team meetings, knows how any writer really feels about any character, nor knows where the story is headed and what characters the writers want to use to forward the story. 

 

 

 

[IllustriousT]

In DA:O, I also gave Morrigan the Arcane Warrior ability, which is later like the Knight Enchanter specialization. If that is the case, maybe, in her last moments she cast Resurgence and vuuuuooooomm...pow! She was fine again. Happens to me all the time .