168 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I think that the Circle of Magi solution could have genuinely worked if the Chantry did a few things. This was initially a response to another thread about mages and demons but I feel it deserves its own thread.

 

1) Take a leaf out of the Qun's Tamassarans.

 

What am I talking about you might ask ?

 

I'm talking about the Tamassarans, specifically one particular duty they perform within the Qun :- Provide psychological counseling and rehabilitation to those overwhelmed by stress and mental fatigue. This includes granting sexual relief to Qunari in need

 

Source :- http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Tamassran

 

The Chantry should have created a position, a specific type of Chantry sister or priest, or a specific kind of Templar recruit who provide psychological counseling and rehabilitation to those overwhelmed by stress and mental fatigue including granting sexual relief to mages in need.

 

For example, just imagine Cullen providing counseling and sexual relief in Kinloch Hold. I am sure female Amell and female Surana would not even want to leave the Circle. Or imagine Sebastian taking on a similar role in the Gallows. I bet you could not drag Bethany out of the Gallows even if you tried to. Emile de Launcet would not have run away from the Circle.

 

2) Provide some form of entertainment.

 

This is basic logic but if you are going to lock a bunch of people up in one place, they are going to get all cranky unless there is way for them to enjoy themselves once in a while.

 

To that end, the Chantry should have allowed performers, bards, artists, thespians etc to visit the Circle and perform a play or hold a concert once in a while. Just some nice entertainment, for both the mages and templars, to take their mind off things.

 

Ultimately, the Circle system failed because as Solas accurately points out, you cannot put a lid on a pot of boiling water and just expect nothing to happen. The Chantry should have allowed the energy, the crankiness, the tensions to be channeled off by providing counseling, sexual relief and general entertainment.

 

3) Allow visitation by family members

 

Credit to Medhia_Nox for this one. When you make a bunch of people live in a closed off environment, emotions can run high. People can also get lonely and depressed. One way to alleviate this is to allow families to visit their mage and templar family members in Circles during specifically allocated time periods. Remember, templars suffer too. At least then people would not be so averse to the idea of the Circle and would not mind sending their kids there.

 

At the end of the day, Circles of Magi are kinda like colleges and universities in the real world. & what do college folks do when they feel they need to burn off steam ? Party, have sex, watch movies, play games or just go home and chill. The Chantry should have allowed some of that.

[straykat]

The mages don't have stress. Not as a whole. They just want to be left alone.

 

The only things giving them stress are the creepy psychopaths who made it their mission to hover over them.

 

And you're advocating whoring people out. I don't find it all that much of an advanced outlook. The only reason the Qunari can pull it off is they're configured to not have any pride in their individual selves.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The mages don't have stress. Not as a whole. They just want to be left alone.

 

The only things giving them stress are the creepy psychopaths who made it their mission to hover over them.

 

And you're advocating whoring people out. I don't find it all that much of an advanced outlook. The only reason the Qunari can pull it off is they're configured to not have any pride in their individual selves.

 

I am not. I did not say we should force people to be counselors and help mages & templars relieve their tension.

[KaiserShep]

I imagine most people would rather choose who they get to relieve sexual tension with. Having designated folks for that role would go very poorly lol

My Amell Warden would sooner roast Cullen alive, or any filthy Templar, unless it was Meredith. What a fox.

[straykat]

I am not. I did not say we should force people to be counselors and help mages & templars relieve their tension.

 

Fair enough. Just the thought of it makes me want to point out why it works for them though. And not others.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LoL, since when circles supposed to be brothels or something smiliar in nature, circles exist to keep mages in them and protect population from them, it is security measure. Letting people roam in circles could end only poorly.In first place, contraband, entering into shady deals and partnerships with people outside for mages would start and helping mages escape would tigger.Then people that would visit circles could have been caught up when circles will go out of control.  

[MidnightWolf]

LoL, since when circles supposed to be brothels or something smiliar in nature, circles exist to keep mages in them and protect population from them, it is security measure. Letting people roam in circles could end only poorly.In first place, contraband, entering into shady deals and partnerships with people outside for mages would start and helping mages escape would tigger.Then people that would visit circles could have been caught up when circles will go out of control.

I don't think the OP is suggesting that the circles become brothals. But keeping grown men and women together, and expecting them all to be celibate -which is how the current system is- is unnatural. Celibacy is a lifestyle choice, and should not be forced upon someone.

[straykat]

LoL, since when circles supposed to be brothels or something smiliar in nature, circles exist to keep mages in them and protect population from them, it is security measure. Letting people roam in circles could end only poorly.In first place, contraband, entering into shady deals and partnerships with people outside for mages would start and helping mages escape would tigger.Then people that would visit circles could have been caught up when circles will go out of control.  

 

So now we've ramped up the security measures to the point where they can't even roam? lol

 

No, they shouldn't be brothels, but geez.

 

All that the Circles have managed to accomplished is attract strange "jailor" behavior. You're always going to get the wrong type of people when their sole purpose in life is jailing. No one like this even cares what Andraste talked about. They just get off on the idea of being in power.

[Force of the North]

I personally like the buddy cop system. Partner up 1 apprentice with a Templar recruit. They grow together, learn together, hell even have them do trust falls.

When it comes time for the Harrowing the Mage enters the fade and the recruit is the one holding the sword ready to strike if the Mage fails. If the Mage is designated for tranquility, the recruit must do it.

This would give a face to the Templar when thinking about the plight of the Mages and give the Mage someone to go to to express concerns and feel comfortable doing so.

[Bizantura]

Why not the reverse.  All the frightened people should locked them selves up in those towers and leave the rest to lead their lives.

[eyezonlyii]

I personally like the buddy cop system. Partner up 1 apprentice with a Templar recruit. They grow together, learn together, hell even have them do trust falls.

When it comes time for the Harrowing the Mage enters the fade and the recruit is the one holding the sword ready to strike if the Mage fails. If the Mage is designated for tranquility, the recruit must do it.

This would give a face to the Templar when thinking about the plight of the Mages and give the Mage someone to go to to express concerns and feel comfortable doing so.

I read a fanfic that explored this perfectly. The set up was what if Carver Hawke, training all his young life to be a Templar, ended up being a mage. The meat of the story took place after Dragon Age 2 and of course being a fanfic, was ultimately about Carver and Cullen getting together, but the realization that a Templar was to be the rock for the mage is what drove the story. 

 

This is especially true when you consider what Cole says of Templars, "They make the world more 'real'." So they should be a calming force on a mage, not a reason for stress and insecurity. 

And I wonder what would happen if a mage went through the meditative process that a Seeker goes through. We know they're made Tranquil and then cured by a spirit, but the differences between that and the Rite of Tranquility is the voluntary aspect of it and the process and time necessary for the change to occur, or so I believe. Cassandra talks about the Euphoria she got when everything came flooding back, but is still in control of her emotions as opposed to the mage in the book that went crazy.

[The Baconer]

I think 2 and 3 were already available, to an extent. The biggest problem regarding both of those issues is that they weren't really part of a universal standard. I think the Circle system would do well to implement standardized rules and anemities, instead of "oh, here at this Circle we do it this way". One of the most significant inclusions here is the potential for mages to apply for housing outside of the Circle.

As for number 1... I think the mental health support is fine, but I don't think bureaucratic management of sexual relief is necessary or desirable. I would simply adopt more of a laissez-faire attitude towards romantic and sexual relations between mages.

Now, I personally had the Seekers put out of commission (even if they are rebuilt, I suspect they're not really part of the Chantry heirarchy anymore) but I think an organization that fulfills their role as internal affairs is needed. Whether it's the Seekers themselves or a replacement, mages should be recruited to serve this order.

[Abyss108]

Nothing makes locking a person who has commited no crime up for their entire life OK.

[eyezonlyii]

I think 2 and 3 were already available, to an extent. The biggest problem regarding both of those issues is that they weren't really part of a universal standard. I think the Circle system would do well to implement standardized rules and anemities, instead of "oh, here at this Circle we do it this way". One of the most significant inclusions here is the potential for mages to apply for housing outside of the Circle.

As for number 1... I think the mental health support is fine, but I don't think bureaucratic management of sexual relief is necessary or desirable. I would simply adopt more of a laissez-faire attitude towards romantic and sexual relations between mages.

Now, I personally had the Seekers put out of commission (even if they are rebuilt, I suspect they're not really part of the Chantry heirarchy anymore) but I think an organization that fulfills their role as internal affairs is needed. Whether it's the Seekers themselves or a replacement, mages should be recruited to serve this order.

I think having a sexual release center in a Circle would be a good idea, I mean I'm all for it in real life as well. Prostitution only has a stigma because of religion/morality, but all in all it's just a service like everything else. People have sex for myriads of reasons, the least of which is because of stress/boredom. People are going to find a way to do what they want anyway, so why not provide the safest atmosphere to do that? Also in this way, one could potentially cut down on accidental pregnancies, provided birth control is a thing in Thedas.

 

I agree with your stance on the Seekers, and when considering adding mages to the Order, the show Heroes did it best. They had The Company, which was all about monitoring the newly found genetically enhanced people, and the policy when investigating was "One of us, one of them." One normal person, one enhanced.

A partnership like that should work well, I would think.

[Xerrai]

While the idea of counsiling is all well and good, you have to remember that the Qunari have a more...freelance attitude when it comes to sex. Designating someone to give "sexual relief" in southern Thedas is not bound to go over well and may even contribute to the designated Templar's/Mage's own emotional stress (their culture simply don't view sex the way the qunari do).

Sexual relief should stay in the buisness of brothels and whorehouses. Now if they should allow these people in for the adult full-fledged mages within the circle? Ummmm....maybe?

 

Now you do have good ideas for numbers 2 and 3, though I hope you understand that there would likely be designated times and Templar security during both engagements.

[SonnyKohler]

I'm concerned that this seems to be only talk about controlling the mages.  What about controlling the Templars and the Chantry.  Given history, they are actually more of a danger to the public good than the mages.

 

Certainly the occasional mage may have some issues and may (and I am using "may" loosely) be more susceptible to demons), but, certainly, especially after the events of Inquisition, it is demonstrable that both Templar and Seekers are extremely susceptible in their own right and the Chantry serves no purpose whatsoever.

 

I do agree that Mages should have the opportunity to gather themselves in to groups as it seems that they are more comfortable in such a structured environment, but these suggestions seem to be little more than the creation of yet more "prisons" for the mages.  Certainly entertainment and the opportunity for self-expression are important, but, they would still be in prison, as if they have committed a crime.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't trust the Templars or the Chantry any further than I could blow their head from their bodies with a fireball, let alone trust them to "protect" or "watch" the mages.

 

What ever happened to self-actualization?

[Steelcan]

More allowances to mages who have passed their harrowing, such as allowing them to live outside of the Circle provided they check in every now and then, looser personal restrictions (which vary too significantly from Circle to Circle), and a less obvious templar presence

[Steelcan]

I'm concerned that this seems to be only talk about controlling the mages.  What about controlling the Templars and the Chantry.  Given history, they are actually more of a danger to the public good than the mages.

 

The Blight

 

that is all

[Kakistos_]

Perhaps we should keep this in mind: The Circle system failed. Utterly. Societies with free Mages however, such as the Avvar, Rivain and others have existed since before the founding of the Chantry and Circle and exist into modern Thedas today without having devolved into lava pits of Abominations and Blood Mages that Chantry propaganda says they should have.

[Xerrai]

I'm concerned that this seems to be only talk about controlling the mages.  What about controlling the Templars and the Chantry.  Given history, they are actually more of a danger to the public good than the mages.

 

Certainly the occasional mage may have some issues and may (and I am using "may" loosely) be more susceptible to demons), but, certainly, especially after the events of Inquisition, it is demonstrable that both Templar and Seekers are extremely susceptible in their own right and the Chantry serves no purpose whatsoever.

 

I do agree that Mages should have the opportunity to gather themselves in to groups as it seems that they are more comfortable in such a structured environment, but these suggestions seem to be little more than the creation of yet more "prisons" for the mages.  Certainly entertainment and the opportunity for self-expression are important, but, they would still be in prison, as if they have committed a crime.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't trust the Templars or the Chantry any further than I could blow their head from their bodies with a fireball, let alone trust them to "protect" or "watch" the mages.

 

What ever happened to self-actualization?

 

Well one suggestion I heard was getting the Chantry sisters more involved with counseling members of the Circle of Magi. One flaw in the Circle system was that the Circle was pretty much only ruled by the Templar Order, with the Chantry providing little more than nice lip service from time to time. Its part of why the order was left so unchecked, and why issues seldom ever reached the ears of the divine because the Templars refused or refused to acknowledge that they were there.

 

Another was either rebuilding the seekers of truth (with mages in their number) or an organization like it. The theory of their purpose was sound, and with proper reform would likely be beneficial to the Circle. But an 'outside' organization that could legally investigate matters within the Circle or Order would be most beneficial to countering abuse/corruption within the Circles and Templar Order.

[Steelcan]

Perhaps we should keep this in mind: The Circle system failed. Utterly. Societies with free Mages however, such as the Avvar, Rivain and others have existed since before the founding of the Chantry and Circle and exist into modern Thedas today without having devolved into lava pits of Abominations and Blood Mages that Chantry propaganda says they should have.

Well except it didn't.  Its hard to measure how much of a success it is since its largely preventative in design, but there haven't been any repeats of starting the Blights and whatnot.

 

Other societies with "free mages" still have methods to keep them in check.  the Dalish move around/exile spares, the Avvar slit the throats of the weak, and I'm sure the Rivaini have something as well we just don't know about it yet.

[Xerrai]

Perhaps we should keep this in mind: The Circle system failed. Utterly. Societies with free Mages however, such as the Avvar, Rivain and others have existed since before the founding of the Chantry and Circle and exist into modern Thedas today without having devolved into lava pits of Abominations and Blood Mages that Chantry propaganda says they should have.

 

Not disagreeing with you, but you have to remember that that wasn't just the result of mages. They were the result of cultures and the beliefs of even non-mages. Now this may be mostly theory, but if what we know about the fade holds true, then wouldn't the beliefs of every citizen (including non-mage) contribute to the fade environment in which these mages live? In other words, would it be possible for the beliefs of the people to make the fade a (comparatively) safer place for their mages than a culture where they believe magic/mages are unstable weapons (who in comparison make the fade more dangerous for their mages)?

 

Basically I'm saying its not going to go well if you instantly let all of the mages loose and expect the world at large to just adjust to and accept them. Changes like that will have be gradual. VERY gradual. Culture does not change over night, and this culture may very well be contributing factor to how mages deal with governing themselves.

[Kakistos_]

The mages don't have stress. Not as a whole. They just want to be left alone.

 

The only things giving them stress are the creepy psychopaths who made it their mission to hover over them.

 

Mages were under a great deal of stress. It has been stated that the most common way for a Circle Mage to die is by suicide. There is also the Harrowing in which young Mages have to either pass or be brutally murdered. They also have to deal with the fact that if they are not deemed "strong" or "good" enough they will be Tranquilized against their will. Being confined to an enclosed space for their entire lives never knowing their family and having any children born to them forcibly taken away... Just a few things that come to mind. There a long list of injustices Mages deal with on a daily basis that translate into stress...

[Steelcan]

Mages were under a great deal of stress. It has been stated that the most common way for a Circle Mage to die is by suicide. There is also the Harrowing in which young Mages have to either pass or be brutally murdered. They also have to deal with the fact that if they are not deemed "strong" or "good" enough they will be Tranquilized against their will. Being confined to an enclosed space for their entire lives never knowing their family and having any children born to them forcibly taken away... Just a few things that come to mind. There a long list of injustices Mages deal with on a daily basis that translate into stress...

this is blatantly untrue, family can visit as we've seen, most families simply lack the means to do so, nor are all mages ripped kicking and screaming from loving homes, Wynne comes immediately to mind

[Kakistos_]

The Blight

 

that is all

 

There is no evidence to suggest that Mages were to blame for the Blight. We now know that the Blight existed in Thedas prior to the First Blight and that it existed independently of the Magisters. Also Humans are the only ones who subscribe to that particular belief. Elves, Qunari and Dwarves(most adversely affected by the Blights) outright dismiss the notion.