168 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

I haven't ignored anything fella. I have however noticed that your 'fond' of telling others who degree with you, what they are 'fond' of.

No? You ignored first sentence of my previous post that specifically explained why it was emotional outburst.Plus, i simply noted your tendency to conveniently ignoring important parts of the posts and then complaning on what user wrote despite that important part of post would explain what was the actual meaning behind post.

 

 

I think sheep who walk on two legs are ignorant fools, does that mean they should all be locked up or exterminated?

 

If they pose threat to society and no im not talking about mild threat, then yes pretty much anyone that meets that criteria is.

 

 

You could have Andraste and David Gaider say magic isn't that bad, and he still would carry on this course.

You mean, post you previously quoted? If yes, pretty sure DG didn't say about magic not being that bad only about chantry wanting mages to help humanity or in other words clean mess they started.

[mgagne]

In the Magister trilogy ( http://www.csfriedma...gister-trilogy/ ), CS Friedman tells us about powerful sorcerers who rule the human realms from the shadows.  However in the distant past they ravaged their world with their bloody feuding.  Which is why at some point they established "the Law", that rules and binds them, forbidding direct confrontation.  As the story progressed we discovered that this 'law' is in fact a powerful enchantment they devised and cast upon themselves. 

 

In any case, this came back to mind when I had that conversation with Vivienne after enrolling the mages from Redcliffe.  Bound by their own magic to preserve the peace, in exchange for their freedom of movement.  I like the idea of a blood ritual to forbid their future use of blood magic, or consorting with the Fade dwellers, or harming their fellow mortals through magic.

[MidnightWolf]

No? You ignored first sentence of my previous post that specifically explained why it was emotional outburst.Plus, i simply noted your tendency to conveniently ignoring important parts of the posts and then complaning on what user wrote despite that important part of post would explain what was the actual meaning behind post.
 
 

 
If they pose threat to society and no im not talking about mild threat, then yes pretty much everything that meets that criteria is.
 
 

You mean, post you previously quoted? If yes, pretty sure DG didn't say about magic not being that bad only about chantry wanting mages to help humanity or in other word clean mess they started.

LOL. Carry on trying to bait me. I've been lurking on these forums for years. I rejoined when Inquesition came out, and whenever I see a thread which has your name in it......I know to stay clear because all you do is bait people in to arguments.
So you carry on. Anyone who read my post knows it wasn't an emotional outburst, it was a counter opinion to yours. Which as it happens, many people here agreed with.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LOL. Carry on trying to bait me. I've been lurking on these forums for years. I rejoined when Inquesition came out, and whenever I see a thread which has your name in it......I know to stay clear because all you do is bait people in to arguments.
So you carry on. Anyone who read my post knows it wasn't an emotional outburst, it was a counter opinion to yours. Which as it happens, many people here agreed with.

You did horrible job avoiding "bait" then, because pretty much responded on my almost every i post directed to you.

Plus, you started your post from aggressively attacking your person then proceed to ignore actual meaning behind post in order to envoke emotional response from others, so your argument "it wasn't outburst because i say so" is not very convincing. 

People agreeing with someone doesn't not make person right, especially in mage-templar threads where pro-mages tend agree with post that are in favor of mages even if that post is clearly wrong. 

[straykat]

No? You ignored first sentence of my previous post that specifically explained why it was emotional outburst.Plus, i simply noted your tendency to conveniently ignoring important parts of the posts and then complaning on what user wrote despite that important part of post would explain what was the actual meaning behind post.

 

 

 

If they pose threat to society and no im not talking about mild threat, then yes pretty much anyone that meets that criteria is.

 

 

You mean, post you previously quoted? If yes, pretty sure DG didn't say about magic not being that bad only about chantry wanting mages to help humanity or in other words clean mess they started.

 

Again, you blame all mages. You should hone in on the problem better. Magisters.

 

In any case, you're more of a Qunari fan, even if you don't realize yet. With your kind of stance, you shouldn't even care about Circles to begin with. It's just a waste of time.

[MidnightWolf]

You did horrible job avoiding "bait" then, because pretty much responded on my almost every i post directed to you.
Plus, you started your post from aggressively attacking your person then proceed actual meaning behind post in order to envoke emotional response from others, so your point is moot 
People agreeing with someone doesn't not make person right, especially in mage-templar threads where pro-mages tend agree with post that are in favor of mages even if that post is clearly wrong.

i find your lack of logic amusing.

[Realmzmaster]

In general, one fundamental difference between mages and non-mages (mundanes) is that non-mages must conciously seek to do harm. Mages can do harm conciously or unconciously.

 

I feel that adult mages who are in control of their power should be allowed to live a "normal" life. But like anyone who breaks the law must be confined to a facility that can handle the threat. The only problem is that the threat mages pose to the community is much greater than a single non-mage. The power for devestation to the community is greater. So a lot of damage can be done before the guility are brought to justice. Blood magic further complicates the matter because minds of non-mages and weak minded mages. So people can controlled to perform acts that they normally may not have done.

 

Children on the other hand should be sent to schools to learn to control that power. Some families willingly send their children to the Circle because they are ill-equipped to handle them. Some families kept hidden their mage children much to their misfortune even when given proper guidance from other mages.

 

Mages have also been used to wreck havoc as seen by misguided Jowan in DAO. Jown's posioning of Eamon sent Connor to search for a way to keep his father alive resulting in a deal with a demon and devestation of Redcliffe.

 

Is the system perfect? No. Is it open to abuse? Yes. Is oversight necessary? Yes. Governments have to do what is right for the majority of people sometimes at the expense of the minority. Is it fair? Probably not.

[MidnightWolf]

In general, one fundamental difference between mages and non-mages (mundanes) is that non-mages must conciously seek to do harm. Mages can do harm conciously or unconciously.
 
I feel that adult mages who are in control of their power should be allowed to live a "normal" life. But like anyone who breaks the law must be confined to a facility that can handle the threat. The only problem is that the threat mages pose to the community is much greater than a single non-mage. The power for devestation to the community is greater. So a lot of damage can be done before the guility are brought to justice. Blood magic further complicates the matter because minds of non-mages and weak minded mages. So people can controlled to perform acts that they normally may not have done.
 
Children on the other hand should be sent to schools to learn to control that power. Some families willingly send their children to the Circle because they are ill-equipped to handle them. Some families kept hidden their mage children much to their misfortune even when given proper guidance from other mages.
 
Mages have also been used to wreck havoc as seen by misguided Jowan in DAO. Jown's posioning of Eamon sent Connor to search for a way to keep his father alive resulting in a deal with a demon and devestation of Redcliffe.
 
Is the system perfect? No. Is it open to abuse? Yes. Is oversight necessary? Yes. Governments have to do what is right for the majority of people sometimes at the expense of the minority. Is it fair? Probably not.

I'm on board with this. Children obviously NEED to be taught. But locking someone up just IN CASE.......that is wrong.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Again, you blame all mages. You should hone in the problem better. Magisters.

 

In any case, you're more of a Qunari fan, even if you don't realize yet. With your kind of stance, you shouldn't even care about Circles to begin with. It's just a waste of time.

We have been here before, once again i don't blame all mages for literally starting a blight, just pointing it was started by a mages and wouldn't exist without mages in first place thus mages cleaning mess after problems that could be started only by mages is not very impressive and doesn't holds much value as in favor of providing mages with freedom.Im not qunari fan, i give them props for effectiveness and progress but im not in love with their rules. 

 

 

i find your lack of logic amusing.

Says a person that makes empty claim without having anything to support it.

[Secret Rare]

 

 

If by that you mean i argue often because person i argue with is wrong then yes. 

This pretty much summarize why nobody take you seriously on this board since  your general rule is  "you are right the others are wrong"

 as such any discussion with you is dead before it is even begun.

 

It is, in a way of course, same as disease it is a threat and needs to be properly dealt with in order to mantain safety and stability within society by that ensuring its survival.

I think that your perspective is a form of insanity developed through a rather shallow and weak (if non existent) similitude engendered by the abuse of the word quarantine thus comparing people that are sick to mages.

The sad thing isn't what you believe but the fact that you see this insanity as a form of ultimate truth

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

This pretty much summarize why nobody take you seriously on this board since  your general rule is  "you are right the others are wrong"

 as such any discussion with you is dead before it is even begun.

 

I think that your perspective is a form of insanity developed through a rather shallow and weak (if non existent) similitude engendered by the abuse of the word quarantine thus comparing people that are sick to mages.

The sad thing isn't what you believe but the fact that you see this insanity as a form of ultimate truth

 

 

1.Well yes, sorry but i simply don't see a point of starting an argument if person is right.  

 

2.Once again, you ignored actual reason why sick are put under quarantine that is because they are threat to rest of the society due to being sick, same is true for rest of examples provided by me.Pretty much as Midnight you are trying to evoke emotional response by screaming that im calling mages a disease and how bad person that makes me, you are ignoring actual content behind my posts ie mages being a threat and being locked up because of that and same thing being true for other groups i have mentioned.

Also yes, it is ultimate truth, once again such thing is called fact.    

[Secret Rare]

In general, one fundamental difference between mages and non-mages (mundanes) is that non-mages must conciously seek to do harm. Mages can do harm conciously or unconciously.

 

 

You mean demons?Demons can influence anyone mages and non mages.

[Realmzmaster]

You mean demons?Demons can influence anyone mages and non mages.

 

No, I mean like with Wynne when she got angry at the boy being mean to her. She reacted by setting his hair on fire. She did not consciously or intentionally mean to do it. She was coming into her power. Mages that are sleeping may lose control of the power. They are not consciously trying to hurt anyone, but in their dreams could be lashing out at something and inadvertently set the house or sibling on fire.

 

Mages who cannot control the power may unintentionally or unconsciously destroy a village.

[MidnightWolf]

We have been here before, once again i don't blame all mages for literally starting a blight, just pointing it was started by a mages and wouldn't exist without mages in first place thus mages cleaning mess after problems that could be started only by another mages is not very impressive and doesn't holds much vale as in favor of providing mages with freedom.Im not qunari fan, i give them props for effectiveness and progress but im not in love with their rules.



Says a person that makes empty claim without having anything to support it.

Oh do shut up. You really are becoming a bore. I made NO empty claim. I simply countered your completely stupid argument. Which anyone who reads back to page two will see. You on the other hand do nothing but bemoane and call other people for daring to question your idiotic illogical logic. It really is time to get a life now fella.

Edit. I notice that beside telling people what they are 'fond of'......you also have a habit of demanding that they prove what they 'claim' while never providing anything to support your own argument.

[Vit246]

Anyhoo....

Anyone familiar with Warhammer Fantasy's Imperial Colleges of Magic? Cuz I might draw some inspirations from that.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Oh do shut up. You really are becoming a bore. I made NO empty claim. I simply countered your completely stupid argument. Which anyone who reads back to page two will see. You on the other hand do nothing but bemoane and call other people for daring to question your idiotic illogical logic. It really is time to get a life now fella.

Edit. I notice that beside telling people what they are 'fond of'......you also have a habit of demanding that they prove what they 'claim' while never providing anything to support your own argument.

Oh,yes your short 1 sentence that can be sumed up as "ur are stupyd" indeed was no empty claim that you supported with rich amount of evidence and logic.

 

You didn't counter my actual argument at any rate, you basically ignored actual point behind my post and started go on issue that is iirrelevant here (and didn't even fit to other examples i also provided) as explained because committing crime is only mean to classify normal person as a threat just like mere fact of being mage means being classified as a threat and that they are both locked up on that basis of that .   

 

Yeah,sorry but it is clear you ignore what was said to you (as i pointed before), because i provided support for my posts multiple times, from explaining them and providing in real life and in-game examples of something working that way to quoting your post where you had an emotional outburst and you started it with attacking my person in agressive manner. 

[sniper_arrow]

Maybe they can take a page from Harry Potter?

 

Or even from the Elder Scrolls?

[Secret Rare]

i provided support for my posts multiple times, from explaining them and providing in real life and in-game examples of something working that way

You mean  manufacturing a risible equivalence between sick people and mages through you own mental constructs and hold such silliness as an ultimate evidence?

[Ieldra]

In the Magister trilogy ( http://www.csfriedma...gister-trilogy/ ), CS Friedman tells us about powerful sorcerers who rule the human realms from the shadows.  However in the distant past they ravaged their world with their bloody feuding.  Which is why at some point they established "the Law", that rules and binds them, forbidding direct confrontation.  As the story progressed we discovered that this 'law' is in fact a powerful enchantment they devised and cast upon themselves. 

 

In any case, this came back to mind when I had that conversation with Vivienne after enrolling the mages from Redcliffe.  Bound by their own magic to preserve the peace, in exchange for their freedom of movement.  I like the idea of a blood ritual to forbid their future use of blood magic, or consorting with the Fade dwellers, or harming their fellow mortals through magic.

That would be worse than the Circle system because it would mean mental enslavement. Also, blood magic has its uses, it isn't always about demon summoning and human sacrifice, and neither is contact with spirits intrinsically undesirable. As for harming others, what about legitimate acts of self-defense, whether as individuals or part of a war?

 

Note that in the Magister trilogy, the Law only applies to the sorcerers. They can still be harmed by normal humans and fight them in turn. Also, they have a non-human biological/magical legacy that's the cause for an intrinsic antagonism towards each other but not other humans, which has no parallel in normal humans. Under those conditions, the self-binding makes sense. A binding that doesn't equally bind both sides of an anticipated conflict is nothing more than enslavement of the bound to the will of the unbound.

[TheKomandorShepard]

You mean  manufacturing a risible equivalence between sick people and mages through you own mental constructs and hold such silliness as an ultimate evidence?

LoL, once again fact is both mages and sick people are locked up on basis being abnormal threat to other people, you may cry that isn't the case but it is and it is called quarantine whether you like or it is mere fact.So yes, people in real world are locked up if they pose abnormal threat to the rest of the society same rule is applied to mages.
.

[Ieldra]

LoL, once again fact is both mages and sick people are locked up on basis being abnormal threat to other people, you may cry that isn't the case but it is and it is called quarantine whether you like or it is mere fact.So yes, people in real world are locked up if they pose abnormal threat to the rest of the society same rule is applied to mages.

The difference is this: in order to be locked up in RL, you have to have proven you're a danger, as an individual, not just a member of a specific group. A generalized "higher risk of dangerous behaviour" isn't enough to justify this, at least by the laws of my country.

 

Of course, things might be different in countries like China, but we wouldn't want to emulate those, right?

[Kakistos_]

Maybe they can take a page from Harry Potter?

 

Or even from the Elder Scrolls?

 

No. Completely different universes with completely different laws surrounding the way in which Magic works.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The difference is this: in order to be locked up in RL, you have to have proven you're a danger, as an individual, not just a member of a specific group. A generalized "higher risk of dangerous behaviour" isn't enough to justify this, at least by the laws of my country.

 

Of course, things might be different in countries like China, but we wouldn't want to emulate those, right?

Mages are proven to be a danger by mere fact of being a mage.Applying law that was created to deal with normal people doesn't not work in case of mages because mages aren't normal people they pose significant threat by virtue of being mage. There is entirely different set of rules and ways how to act in case of groups that are classified as abnormal threat to society such as contagiously sick.

 

So, as sick people are threat due to disease , mages are are threat due to their magic and because of that they are contained in order to mantain safety and stability within society.   

[Steelcan]

The difference is this: in order to be locked up in RL, you have to have proven you're a danger, as an individual, not just a member of a specific group. A generalized "higher risk of dangerous behaviour" isn't enough to justify this, at least by the laws of my country.

 

Of course, things might be different in countries like China, but we wouldn't want to emulate those, right?

yes and we've arrived at that after several centuries of humanist, enlightenment, and individualist thinkers.

 

Thedas, as much as it invites comparisons, shouldn't be the 21st century with swords and plate armor.  Furthermore the comparison doesn't work because we don't have people in our world who can light a city on fire with a flick of the wrist.  There just simply is no real world analogue, however even in modern society there are measures taken to prevent people who have a high potential of causing damage from doing so.

[thesuperdarkone2]

It's funny the differences between the BSN and reddit versions of this topic