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[Mistic]

And that difference is most likely going to translate to Quizzy being turned into an NPC like Hawke. I think people have explained why that would be incredibly unsatisfying, probably a lot more than Hawke was. Some people have even said they'd prefer they didn't appear at all than to have than happen.

 

Sadly, that means Bioware can't possibly satisfy everyone. What can they do, when fans don't agree on what is best?

 

Personally, I find this situation a déjà vu. I've seen it happen with the Warden. I've seen it happen with Hawke. I'm seeing it happen with the Inquisitor. And you bet I'll see it happen again with our next PC ("the Guardian of Tevinter's story isn't finished", "that was a cliffhanger, don't you see it?", "I know my cyborg-qunari baby is only possible if I go to the time-travel temple, but it should appear in...").

 

At this point, I've learnt to accept that Bioware will keep changing PCs and that there will be anticlimactic endings for the previous ones. That or sudden deaths.

[BansheeOwnage]

And it's possible that the Inquisitor will return as a playable character instead of an NPC

Yes, that's still possible, but I no longer think it's very likely. The whole "wrap up this story, tie off this character" seems like they want them to feature as little as possible in the next game, so I have a hard time expecting anything more than a cameo at this point. I just feel like if they were planning dual protagonists, they would have a much different tone, and would try to hype it up as much as they can.

[BansheeOwnage]

Sadly, that means Bioware can't possibly satisfy everyone. What can they do, when fans don't agree on what is best?

 

Personally, I find this situation a déjà vu. I've seen it happen with the Warden. I've seen it happen with Hawke. I'm seeing it happen with the Inquisitor. And you bet I'll see it happen again with our next PC ("the Guardian of Tevinter's story isn't finished", "that was a cliffhanger, don't you see it?", "I know my cyborg-qunari baby is only possible if I go to the time-travel temple, but it should appear in...").

 

At this point, I've learnt to accept that Bioware will keep changing PCs and that there will be anticlimactic endings for the previous ones. That or sudden deaths.

Saying you can't please everyone doesn't really mean anything. I think we all know that, and Bioware knows it. This is the case for every form of media ever. Because it's basically a certainty, writers should write what they think makes the best story (but I do think they should take into account what their fanbase thinks makes a good story, even if it doesn't directly affect what they make - knowing your audience is important).

 

So the problem here is a difference between what part of the fanbase thinks makes a good story, and what Bioware apparently does. It's not about pleasing everyone, it's about being disappointed that a company could have such a drastically different view of what constitutes good narrative design than us, and in many cases, wondering if it's worth it to give this company more of our time and money.

 

Basically: "Does this company make good stories that I find satisfying anymore, or should I move on?" And if the answer is the latter, frustration and disappointment are understandable.

 

And I should also reiterate that most of the pro returning-Inquisitor people are not people who clamor for each protagonist to return as the series goes on. Rather, this situation specifically has proven so important that is has made them do a complete 180° in opinion.

[Smudjygirl]

And I should also reiterate that most of the pro returning-Inquisitor people are not people who clamor for each protagonist to return as the series goes on. Rather, this situation specifically has proven so important that is has made them do a complete 180° in opinion.

 

And it's seemingly a big portion of the fanbase. A poll i did was 50/50 in people wanting the Inquisitor back and those not. That was only done here, though. And just over 200 people responded, so it's hardly good data. But Greenbrownblue also did one, which got over 300 respondents (335 is the number i think). 300 of which are for the Inquisitor returning. I wonder if BW would do any sort of research. Probably not, they seem to have decided already.

[BansheeOwnage]

And it's seemingly a big portion of the fanbase. A poll i did was 50/50 in people wanting the Inquisitor back and those not. That was only done here, though. And just over 200 people responded, so it's hardly good data. But Greenbrownblue also did one, which got over 300 respondents (335 is the number i think). 300 of which are for the Inquisitor returning. I wonder if BW would do any sort of research. Probably not, they seem to have decided already.

Yeah, it seems that way, even though we don't have hard data. There are similar threads on Reddit as well. And I'm glad it's not just a discussion happening here, since Bioware tends to ignore this place these days

 

But you're right, Bioware has likely made the decision already. But on the off-chance that they haven't or will change their minds, I'll keep voicing my opinion, for now. At the very least, I can show my disenfranchisement (haha, get it?) and vent a bit.

[AlanC9]

Wouldn't polls and threads like that have a huge selection bias?

[Smudjygirl]

Yeah, it seems that way, even though we don't have hard data. There are similar threads on Reddit as well. And I'm glad it's not just a discussion happening here, since Bioware tends to ignore this place these days

 

But you're right, Bioware has likely made the decision already. But on the off-chance that they haven't or will change their minds, I'll keep voicing my opinion, for now. At the very least, I can show my disenfranchisement (haha, get it?) and vent a bit.

 

At this point, all i'm hoping for them to do is realise the way they are doing it isn't working. New PC's should have their own story, and the baggage to the previous people should be kept to a minimum. I don't -and never really have- expect them to change everything because *I* would prefer it done X. But it is true that there are many place talking about it. Even bloggers have expressed their view (i read one who hated Inquisition and the Inquisitor, but said that the Inquisitor should come back to deal with Solas).

 

But i don't blame them for ignoring here. People don't always phrase what they are saying in the most diplomatic way.

 

Wouldn't polls and threads like that have a huge selection bias?

 

Exactamundo. Hence i hope BW do some of their own data gathering. But threads that says "Inquisitor for DA4!" seem to attracts more of the "No thanks" crowd that the "yes please" people.

[Nefla]

It's all happened before, and it will happen again

 

Thanks! It just sort of hit me when I thought about it. Your conclusion isn't necessarily different from mine. While I prefer serials with returning protagonists in general, my point wasn't so much that that's how it must be done, it was more than they should either do that or do what you said (clean break), but not so some odd in-between thing, because that can be unsatisfying to people who prefer either style.

 

"The weaknesses of both, the strengths of neither."

 

I don't mind the occasional returning character though, as long as it makes sense. It still ties the world together. But it can't be excessive, it shouldn't apply to major plot-points, and meta-gaming shouldn't be relied-upon for decision-making - ingame and otherwise.

 

Exactly. If you have a villain like Corypheus, you should be able to do more than just fight him. One of the things I like about Bioware games is that you can do so much verbal confrontation, and that you can often solve problems with speeches instead of fighting, or at least try. Or maybe just try to understand where they're coming from. Sadly, this didn't apply to Corypheus.

That's always been my position as well. You can't please everyone and when you try, you end up with a watered down mess that like you said has the weaknesses of both and the strengths of neither.

[Abyss108]

Well, I'm officially over the little "Inquisitor can't return because of 3 words on a slideshow" freakout. That was kinda dumb.

 

I'm back to being optimistic about this. Every Inquisitor was forced into making a choice about how to deal with Solas, every Inquisitor had their final decisions revolve around the effects on the effort to stop Solas, the final thing every Inquisitor did was give a speech about how they were going to stop Solas, and the lead writer has said he was to give more resolution between the two.

 

I am back to hope and optimism!

[Nefla]

[Smudjygirl]

Well, I'm officially over the little "Inquisitor can't return because of 3 words on a slideshow" freakout. That was kinda dumb.

 

I'm back to being optimistic about this. Every Inquisitor was forced into making a choice about how to deal with Solas, every Inquisitor had their final decisions revolve around the effects on the effort to stop Solas, the final thing every Inquisitor did was give a speech about how they were going to stop Solas, and the lead writer has said he was to give more resolution between the two.

 

I am back to hope and optimism!

 

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. At the very least, i have hope Weeks (and the others, credit where it is due) will find some way to end Solas' story satisfactorily.

[Abyss108]

 

I'm been flipping between those two states for a while, but I've decided that slide probably doesn't mean anything.

 

Bioware certainly knows there are various people on different sides on this issue, they often talk about how they read a lot of feedback and pay attention to what people are discussing. If they wanted to let people know the Inquisitor wasn't returning, I don't think they would do it by putting it on a random slide at a show. I think they would just come out and say it. After all, the discussion isn't building hype for the game or anything, it's a bunch of people saying they are less interested in buying the game. If they absolutely know they are not having the Inquisitor return they can just pull out their old quote of "one protagonist for each game" and say that if they decide to make anymore games, they will probably follow that. This doesn't require them to confirm a new game, or anything else they are not allowed to talk about yet. 

 

Besides, the Inquisitor is definitely involved in the next Dragon Age whether they are the protagonist or not - the character themselves directly states that they are going after Solas. So that slide doesn't even make sense because no matter what, the Inquisitor's story actually isn't over. It doesn't matter whether the Inquisitor is the protagonist or not - that slide simply cannot be true.

[Nefla]

If only they would hear us and just tell us which it will be

[Mistic]

Saying you can't please everyone doesn't really mean anything. I think we all know that, and Bioware knows it. This is the case for every form of media ever. Because it's basically a certainty, writers should write what they think makes the best story (but I do think they should take into account what their fanbase thinks makes a good story, even if it doesn't directly affect what they make - knowing your audience is important).

 

So the problem here is a difference between what part of the fanbase thinks makes a good story, and what Bioware apparently does. It's not about pleasing everyone, it's about being disappointed that a company could have such a drastically different view of what constitutes good narrative design than us, and in many cases, wondering if it's worth it to give this company more of our time and money.

 

And I should also reiterate that most of the pro returning-Inquisitor people are not people who clamor for each protagonist to return as the series goes on. Rather, this situation specifically has proven so important that is has made them do a complete 180° in opinion.

 

But what about the part of the fanbase who agrees with Bioware, or at least doesn't disagree with them? Isn't that the very definition of "you can't please everyone"? Those who disagree will always be disappointed, no matter the route Bioware chooses.

 

I, for one, think that Bioware's narrative design for Dragon Age is not only acceptable, but one of the things that draw me to the series. If suddenly it became another Shepard Effect (not that I don't love ME, but that series had its own narrative design) I know I would be disappointed, think it's a terrible narrative mistake that takes life out from the setting and wonder if I should buy the next game. Wouldn't it be a similar situation?

 

The difference is that, in my case, I could legitimately complain that Bioware had changed a narrative design that they have followed for 3 games already. Take it or leave it, it's a recognizable staple of the series. Like the prisoner in The Elder Scrolls (a narrative design I detest, but I know it's part of the deal and that many love it). They've never tricked the consumers in that regard, every game was marketed with a different protagonist.

 

If Trespasser didn't tie the Inquisitor's story properly, it's the DLC's fault, not the game design's, because it's always easier to adapt a DLC story to the game design than changing a game design spawning 3 games because of an epilogue not everyone bought. Despite current clamor, it's nothing very different from what could be seen after Witch Hunt and the much bigger cliffhanger ending of DA2.

[Smudjygirl]

If only they would hear us and just tell us which it will be

 

They've more than likely heard us, and everyone else. I guess someone could just ask. It should be a yes/no question, it wouldn't be a spoiler. Unless it's yes to the Inquisitor returning. No would just be a matter of course.

 

But frankly, Abyss is right. If the Inquisitor will have a part in the next game (which they must if Solavellen is going to have some resolution) the Inquisitor's story, by definition, was not done.

 

Time will tell

[Nefla]

They've more than likely heard us, and everyone else. I guess someone could just ask. It should be a yes/no question, it wouldn't be a spoiler. Unless it's yes to the Inquisitor returning. No would just be a matter of course.

 

But frankly, Abyss is right. If the Inquisitor will have a part in the next game (which they must if Solavellen is going to have some resolution) the Inquisitor's story, by definition, was not done.

 

Time will tell

I feel like they don't read the forums at all anymore (which is probably a good thing in most cases). /doomgloom

[Smudjygirl]

I feel like they don't read the forums at all anymore (which is probably a good thing in most cases). /doomgloom

 

If that's the case, i don't blame them. But i think they do. They just don't get involved in chats anymore. They must feel like meat in front of a pack of wolves sometimes.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I feel like they don't read the forums at all anymore (which is probably a good thing in most cases). /doomgloom

They have to read the forums. There is no way they don't have so many things I want and have so many things I don't want by pure chance. 

[Nefla]

They have to read the forums. There is no way they don't have so many things I want and have so many things I don't want by pure chance. 

"How much can we torment Hanako and Nefla? MWA HA HA HA!" -BioWare

 

hahaha!  ...aww

[Dai Grepher]

He stabbed the map. That means he's coming back. Don't worry.

 

But yes there will be a new protag as well.

[Smudjygirl]

He stabbed the map. That means he's coming back. Don't worry.

 

I don't think that in itself really says anything. It's more the exclusive "we" that the Inquisitor uses at the end of Trespasser.

[sniper_arrow]

They have to read the forums. There is no way they don't have so many things I want and have so many things I don't want by pure chance. 

 

They may read most of the topics, but that doesn't mean they may listen to us all the time.

[ArcaneEsper]

I wonder if at some level Bioware itself doesn't know which route to take. They might want to continue the Inquisitor/Solas arc, but maybe they feel more comfortable having things unfold with a new PC (in terms of Dragon Age). Or really any number of reasons. I'd think since the game hasn't even been greenlit yet the devs haven't set anything in stone because at this point they don't really need to. 

[Smudjygirl]

I wonder if at some level Bioware itself doesn't know which route to take. They might want to continue the Inquisitor/Solas arc, but maybe they feel more comfortable having things unfold with a new PC (in terms of Dragon Age). Or really any number of reasons. I'd think since the game hasn't even been greenlit yet the devs haven't set anything in stone because at this point they don't really need to. 

 

Many have said it feels like they left their options open at the end of Trespasser. I just finished replaying it, and i completely agree. Who knows, only time will tell

[Heimdall]

Many have said it feels like they left their options open at the end of Trespasser. I just finished replaying it, and i completely agree. Who knows, only time will tell

I for one tend to think they were leaving their options open with the Inquisitor but always intended a new protagonist.  What they left undecided was in what capacity the Inquisitor will return (Dual protagonist?  NPC?).