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[Mistic]

I wonder if at some level Bioware itself doesn't know which route to take. They might want to continue the Inquisitor/Solas arc, but maybe they feel more comfortable having things unfold with a new PC (in terms of Dragon Age). Or really any number of reasons. I'd think since the game hasn't even been greenlit yet the devs haven't set anything in stone because at this point they don't really need to. 

 

Indeed it looks that way. Not to mention that, for all we know, Solas' plot can be secondary or minor depending on what their plans might be for DA4.

 

After Awakening many thought DA2 would explore more the Darkspawn side. It didn't happen. After DA2, it seemed that the Mage-Templar War was going to be the central conflict of the next game. Now that war looks laughable in comparison to everything else seen in DA:I. And all those theories about Flemeth's plans! For all we know, Solas may end up being a big fish in a small pond.

 

I mean, it wouldn't be the first time Solas is wrong about the threat level of a menace come from Tevinter. His knowledge about what the taint and taint-related things are able to do is also dangerously lacking.

[Nefla]

If they wanted to avoid the kerfuffle of people thinking they handicapped the inquisitor to sideline them because they think no one would expect or want to play someone with any kind of disability and they had planned on having the inquisitor as the protagonist of the next game then they could just say "if we do make a DA4 the inquisitor will be the protagonist" the way they said "if there is a DA4 it will deal with Solas plotline" and if the game gets canceled or something then it gets canceled. If they don't plan to use the inquisitor as the protagonist again then why not just say "we don't plan to have the inquisitor as the protagonist anymore but they will have a role" or something? Why the secrecy?

[Heimdall]

Indeed it looks that way. Not to mention that, for all we know, Solas' plot can be secondary or minor depending on what their plans might be for DA4.

 

After Awakening many thought DA2 would explore more the Darkspawn side. It didn't happen. After DA2, it seemed that the Mage-Templar War was going to be the central conflict of the next game. Now that war looks laughable in comparison to everything else seen in DA:I. And all those theories about Flemeth's plans! For all we know, Solas may end up being a big fish in a small pond.

 

I mean, it wouldn't be the first time Solas is wrong about the threat level of a menace come from Tevinter. His knowledge about what the taint and taint-related things are able to do is also dangerously lacking.

In fairness, almost nobody knows what creatures fueled by the taint are capable of, even the Grey Wardens had barely any understanding of Corypheus after having him imprisoned for a millennium and they couldn't make heads or tails of the Architect.

[In Exile]

If they wanted to avoid the kerfuffle of people thinking they handicapped the inquisitor to sideline them because they think no one would expect or want to play someone with any kind of disability and they had planned on having the inquisitor as the protagonist of the next game then they could just say "if we do make a DA4 the inquisitor will be the protagonist" the way they said "if there is a DA4 it will deal with Solas plotline" and if the game gets canceled or something then it gets canceled. If they don't plan to use the inquisitor as the protagonist again then why not just say "we don't plan to have the inquisitor as the protagonist anymore but they will have a role" or something? Why the secrecy?

 

Because they're not in the habit of pinning themselves down to a really fundamental piece of game design until they've got it confirmed and they are prepared to announce the game? 

 

This is a business. Actually announcing a product - or features of a future product - is a serious business decision.

[Mistic]

In fairness, almost nobody knows what creatures fueled by the taint are capable of, even the Grey Wardens had barely any understanding of Corypheus after having him imprisoned for a millennium and they couldn't make heads or tails of the Architect.

 

I agree. However, one would expect that when not even a centuries-old order created to stop the Blights can grasp the taint's true nature, others would know better than deriding the Wardens or not taking that danger into consideration. Yet that's exactly what Solas does, despite not having witnessed the true power of the darkspawn in his whole life.

 

It's not something unique to Solas, not even in-universe. Sometimes it's difficult to remember that us players, even as newbie Wardens in DA:O, have more knowledge about the taint, the darkspawn and the Blight than most of the DA:I cast put together.

 

Still, taint or not, my point is that there are dangers out there that can be potentially bigger than Solas. Discussions about how fundamental the Inquisitor-Solas connection is to the plot can be for naught if DA4 reveals yet another threat that makes Solas look like a wannabe.

[Dutch's Ghost]

Who'd honestly want the Inquistor as the protag for the next game? The lamest voiced protag from a Bioware game in my opinion.

[In Exile]

I agree. However, one would expect that when not even a centuries-old order created to stop the Blights can grasp the taint's true nature, others would know better than deriding the Wardens or not taking that danger into consideration. Yet that's exactly what Solas does, despite not having witnessed the true power of the darkspawn in his whole life.

 

It's not something unique to Solas, not even in-universe. Sometimes it's difficult to remember that us players, even as newbie Wardens in DA:O, have more knowledge about the taint, the darkspawn and the Blight than most of the DA:I cast put together.

 

Still, taint or not, my point is that there are dangers out there that can be potentially bigger than Solas. Discussions about how fundamental the Inquisitor-Solas connection is to the plot can be for naught if DA4 reveals yet another threat that makes Solas look like a wannabe.

 

I don't think that's per se true. Solas hints at having a deeper knowledge of the Blight that he lets on. Given the hints as to the ancient elves, I wouldn't so easily jump to the conclusion that Solas is unfamiliar with the Blight. As to what "Grey Wardens" know, it's important to distinguish between what the leadership might know, with what senior Wardens are told, with what the rank and file know. 

[ArcaneEsper]

Still, taint or not, my point is that there are dangers out there that can be potentially bigger than Solas. Discussions about how fundamental the Inquisitor-Solas connection is to the plot can be for naught if DA4 reveals yet another threat that makes Solas look like a wannabe.

 

How could we possibly have a threat worse than Solas? It's pretty hard to one up someone planning on destroying reality as it currently exists. 

[In Exile]

How could we possibly have a threat worse than Solas? It's pretty hard to one up someone planning on destroying reality as it currently exists. 

 

The Evanuris, at least according to Solas, were worse. Who knows what they'd plot to do on top of shattering reality if they were freed. 

[Big I]

How could we possibly have a threat worse than Solas? It's pretty hard to one up someone planning on destroying reality as it currently exists. 

 

Elgar'nan, leader of the Evanuris. Based on codex entries even the other elven gods were scared of him.

[ArcaneEsper]

The Evanuris, at least according to Solas, were worse. Who knows what they'd plot to do on top of shattering reality if they were freed. 

 

Elgar'nan, leader of the Evanuris. Based on codex entries even the other elven gods were scared of him.

 

I mean sure, that's possible. But the Evanuris were tyrannical rulers (if we are to trust what info we have of them), Solas is going for a hard reset that's likely going to wipe out most if not all, life on Thedas. So I'm not too sold on the Evanuris being any worse than him.

[In Exile]

I mean sure, that's possible. But the Evanuris were tyrannical rulers (if we are to trust what info we have of them), Solas is going for a hard reset that's likely going to wipe out most if not all, life on Thedas. So I'm not too sold on the Evanuris being any worse than him.

Solas says that the Veil was a plan he came up with to stop something even worse. It's possible that Solas knew the risks of his plan - that he could basically end up nuking his own reality. In any case, the radical idea of the Veil, and whatever it took to make it, was something that Solas was willing to undertake only because what the Evanuris plotted was apparently worse.

 

Plus, we're on the hierarchy of villainy here. Solas is worse than Corypheus, who was worse than the AD/Architect. The Evanuris will be worse, and probably the Titans will be worse than them (as I bet we will learn that everything the Evanuris did was to stop an even bigger threat, which is what led them to be heroes and then god kings/queens in the first place).

[Heimdall]

Solas says that the Veil was a plan he came up with to stop something even worse. It's possible that Solas knew the risks of his plan - that he could basically end up nuking his own reality. In any case, the radical idea of the Veil, and whatever it took to make it, was something that Solas was willing to undertake only because what the Evanuris plotted was apparently worse.

 

Plus, we're on the hierarchy of villainy here. Solas is worse than Corypheus, who was worse than the AD/Architect. The Evanuris will be worse, and probably the Titans will be worse than them (as I bet we will learn that everything the Evanuris did was to stop an even bigger threat, which is what led them to be heroes and then god kings/queens in the first place).

I dread this type of escalation...

[In Exile]

I dread this type of escalation...

 

The way to handle it properly is to simply increase the surreal nature of the setting. Most games fail to work their villain hierarchy because they make their villains worse without changing their setting. But DA:I has made it work, I think, by showing that the only reason Solas is a threat at all is because of how much he wants to fundamentally change reality. And the other threats are quite literally - from the POV of modern, post-Veil Thedas - Eldritch abominations from another dimension. 

[Mistic]

I don't think that's per se true. Solas hints at having a deeper knowledge of the Blight that he lets on. Given the hints as to the ancient elves, I wouldn't so easily jump to the conclusion that Solas is unfamiliar with the Blight. As to what "Grey Wardens" know, it's important to distinguish between what the leadership might know, with what senior Wardens are told, with what the rank and file know. 

 

His hints are vague at best, and he himself admits that what Corypheus did with his taint powers caught him by surprise. Still, it's a good point, since Bioware has left their options open. If they want to make Solas commit yet another taint-based mistake, they can say: "we foreshadowed it". If they want to make Solas reveal more information about it, they can also say: "we foreshadowed it".

 

As for the Wardens' knowledge, yes, I agree. But in the end, it doesn't matter. We know, because we've played it, that the Inquisition's inner circle has vastly more knowledge than their rank and file. If any third-party needs to evaluate the information the Inquisition has, the key is not what the common grunt knows, but what those who direct the organization know. And given what a surprisingly-elite grunt like our Warden can discover in DA:O, I think that the higher-ups in the Order may hold lots of interesting bits of information.

 

How could we possibly have a threat worse than Solas? It's pretty hard to one up someone planning on destroying reality as it currently exists. 

 

As others have pointed out, there are several possibilities. And I'd mention the taint again, because now we know that it can't just corrupt lands, plants, animals and people, but also lyrium. What's the next step, spirits? Imagine if Solas succeeds in recreating the world before the Veil, only to discover that now every part of Thedas, including the non-material one, is about to suffer a transdimensional Blight that not even he can stop.

[In Exile]

His hints are vague at best, and he himself admits that what Corypheus did with his taint powers caught him by surprise. Still, it's a good point, since Bioware has left their options open. If they want to make Solas commit yet another taint-based mistake, they can say: "we foreshadowed it". If they want to make Solas reveal more information about it, they can also say: "we foreshadowed it".

 

As for the Wardens' knowledge, yes, I agree. But in the end, it doesn't matter. We know, because we've played it, that the Inquisition's inner circle has vastly more knowledge than their rank and file. If any third-party needs to evaluate the information the Inquisition has, the key is not what the common grunt knows, but what those who direct the organization know. And given what a surprisingly-elite grunt like our Warden can discover in DA:O, I think that the higher-ups in the Order may hold lots of interesting bits of information.

 

 

As others have pointed out, there are several possibilities. And I'd mention the taint again, because know we know that it can't just corrupt lands, plants, animals and people, but also lyrium. What's the next step, spirits? Imagine if Solas succeeds in recreating the world before the Veil, only to discover that now every part of Thedas, including the non-material one, is about to suffer a transdimensional Blight that not even he can stop.

 

I wasn't clear on my point re: the Wardens, I think. I don't mean to say that the Order might not have information - but rather that the order lies so frequently and fundamentally to its membership that it's not clear who - if anyone - actually knows things in the order, versus believes what they have been told. I don't think, for example, even Warden-Commanders really know much of anything.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Solas says that the Veil was a plan he came up with to stop something even worse. It's possible that Solas knew the risks of his plan - that he could basically end up nuking his own reality. In any case, the radical idea of the Veil, and whatever it took to make it, was something that Solas was willing to undertake only because what the Evanuris plotted was apparently worse.

 

Plus, we're on the hierarchy of villainy here. Solas is worse than Corypheus, who was worse than the AD/Architect. The Evanuris will be worse, and probably the Titans will be worse than them (as I bet we will learn that everything the Evanuris did was to stop an even bigger threat, which is what led them to be heroes and then god kings/queens in the first place).

If they were to do that, I would expect instead of the Titans being the bigger threat it would be the Forgotten Ones. Now that we know the truth about the Creators, the Forgotten Ones are either beings who opposed them and were written off as villains by the Evanuris, or like you predict they are an even bigger threat and that's why the Evanuris did what they did. 

[Mistic]

I wasn't clear on my point re: the Wardens, I think. I don't mean to say that the Order might not have information - but rather that the order lies so frequently and fundamentally to its membership that it's not clear who - if anyone - actually knows things in the order, versus believes what they have been told. I don't think, for example, even Warden-Commanders really know much of anything.

 

I'm curious. When have we learned that the order lies frequently and fundamentally to its members? Apart from being generally too prone to secretism and drastic measures and not revealing all the information about everything to everyone, the Warden's don't seem bigger liars than the Inquisition.

[In Exile]

If they were to do that, I would expect instead of the Titans being the bigger threat it would be the Forgotten Ones. Now that we know the truth about the Creators, the Forgotten Ones are either beings who opposed them and were written off as villains by the Evanuris, or like you predict they are an even bigger threat and that's why the Evanuris did what they did. 

 

I don't think the "Final Boss" on the cosmology we learn so far will be elven. Remember, when we read about Gelduran (or however that's spelled) there is a suggestion that the Forgotten Ones may not even be compatriots or contemporaries of the Evanuris. Recall the codex entry from JOH:

 

There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed.

 

I am Geldauran, and I refuse those who would exert will upon me. Let Andruil's bow crack, let June's fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.

 

I wonder if the Forgotten Ones aren't simply contemporaries with Solas, who is, I think, not a contemporary of the Evanuris himself.

[Nefla]

Because they're not in the habit of pinning themselves down to a really fundamental piece of game design until they've got it confirmed and they are prepared to announce the game? 

 

This is a business. Actually announcing a product - or features of a future product - is a serious business decision.

They already said if there's a DA4 then Solas' story would be dealt with in it (no hiding or waffling there). I'd think the decision of whether to continue with the same protagonist or switch would be one of the very first decisions made (especially with the setup in Trespasser). If they're holding true to The Rule and never had any inclination of deviating from it then there's no reason not to come right out and tell us that. Even if they have no idea what they're going to do, they could just say "if we do DA4 we don't know if we would have the inquisitor as the protagonist or someone new, our options are open."

 

I agree. However, one would expect that when not even a centuries-old order created to stop the Blights can grasp the taint's true nature, others would know better than deriding the Wardens or not taking that danger into consideration. Yet that's exactly what Solas does, despite not having witnessed the true power of the darkspawn in his whole life.

 

It's not something unique to Solas, not even in-universe. Sometimes it's difficult to remember that us players, even as newbie Wardens in DA:O, have more knowledge about the taint, the darkspawn and the Blight than most of the DA:I cast put together.

 

Still, taint or not, my point is that there are dangers out there that can be potentially bigger than Solas. Discussions about how fundamental the Inquisitor-Solas connection is to the plot can be for naught if DA4 reveals yet another threat that makes Solas look like a wannabe.

Something I hate is when a storyteller thinks they have to tell a bigger, more "epic," more world threatening story and things keep getting more and more outlandish. Spectacle and increasingly bigger, stronger threats don't make a good story for me. I feel like BioWare has the idea that bigger=better though.

 

 Imagine if Solas succeeds in recreating the world before the Veil, only to discover that now every part of Thedas, including the non-material one, is about to suffer a transdimensional Blight that not even he can stop.

Given Solas' track record of predicting the consequences of his actions this sounds about right

[In Exile]

I'm curious. When have we learned that the order lies frequently and fundamentally to its members? Apart from being generally too prone to secretism and drastic measures and not revealing all the information about everything to everyone, the Inquisition seems to be a much bigger liar in-universe.

 

I suspect where we will disagree is about the significance of an omission. I don't think there's a difference between a lie by omission an an "active" lie. The Wardens lie to their membership by omission quite frequently, and not just as part of the recruitment drive. So they don't tell prospective members the truth about the Joining, members the truth of the consequences of the Joining or their role in killing an AD, even senior members of creatures like Corypheus, and so on. 

[In Exile]

They already said if there's a DA4 then Solas' story would be dealt with in it (no hiding or waffling there). I'd think the decision of whether to continue with the same protagonist or switch would be one of the very first decisions made (especially with the setup in Trespasser). If they're holding true to The Rule and never had any inclination of deviating from it then there's no reason not to come right out and tell us that. Even if they have no idea what they're going to do, they could just say "if we do DA4 we don't know if we would have the inquisitor as the protagonist or someone new, our options are open."

 

If they do know what to do, then it's a confirmation. And my point is that they are clearly not at the stage in development where they are prepared to confirm anything about the game.

[Nefla]

If they do know what to do, then it's a confirmation. And my point is that they are clearly not at the stage in development where they are prepared to confirm anything about the game.

Except for Solas' plot being dealt with...

[In Exile]

Except for Solas' plot being dealt with...

 

Yes. And I can appreciate that you think this is really fundamental about DA:4, but that's not necessarily true. The identity of the PC, however, is something pretty fundamental. Even ME:A hasn't revealed that bit.

[Mistic]

I suspect where we will disagree is about the significance of an omission. I don't think there's a difference between a lie by omission an an "active" lie. The Wardens lie to their membership by omission quite frequently, and not just as part of the recruitment drive. So they don't tell prospective members the truth about the Joining, members the truth of the consequences of the Joining or their role in killing an AD, even senior members of creatures like Corypheus, and so on. 

 

Ah, I understand then. Yes, you suspect right, I don't consider an omission an actual lie. Especially since secrets are a necessity of many organizations. We are subjected to them in Mass Effect (Anderson's "strictly need-to-know basis") and, again, the Inquisition is still much worse in that regard.

 

The Inquisition not only omits information, but it outright lies to the general public and their very people. From the "Herald of Andraste" thing to the Game in Orlais, from the mindblowing secrets revealed during the game to the war table missions, the Inquisition is an organization based on lies. It happens to even the most honest Inquisitor. Blackwall of all people points it out.

 

Still, we go back to square one: that web of lies doesn't mean that the actual knowledge the Inquisition holds is not real. That only a handful of them know is a secondary matter. I believe the same can be applied to the Wardens, but we won't know for sure until a game set in the Anderfels, I think.