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[AresKeith]

I was just reading Cory's page on the Wiki. Not been on his page for a long while

 

http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Corypheus

 

Why was this information not part of the main story line? I'd have been so interested in him if my Inquisitor discovered even a fraction of this (in more than just a codex that is never, ever, ever mentioned). What a waste of a villain that could have been so interesting. By the end of Inquisition, it seems like Inquisitor still isn't even sure if Cory is a Magister or not

 

*it's important to note i don't have much media outside of them game. And i should not really need it if i play a game where the chump is the antagonist.

 

Which path did you go, because I do know that you learn a lot more about him if you go the Templar/Calpernia route 

[Witch Cocktor]

Even if you disband the inquisition and say that your traveling days are over, you'll STILL end up in the basement planning your next move, and you still have to choose how you want to deal with Solas before he vanishes. There is no choice to ignore Solas and just tell him I DONT CARE, DO WHAT YOU WANT.

 

Just putting it out there since some people tend to forget this.

[Smudjygirl]

Which path did you go, because I do know that you learn a lot more about him if you go the Templar/Calpernia route 

 

I have done both. A few times. But the memories in the Templar route pretty much mirrored what i already found out from Legacy. Woke up not knowing what was going on, the Cory and some others are the Magisters and so on. Easy to forget since, although it was new for my Inquisitor, it was not for me. So it didn't really stand out for me. But the Wiki shows there is more to him than was ever shown in the game. We were just told that he was "stronger than the Maker"

 

The fact you don't learn this with the Mages is another problem all together.

[Nefla]

I still wish the final fight had ended with the Inquisitor and Cory in the Fade. Deal with the Anchor during that finale.

Same here! It would not only have been cooler and more believable than randomly levitating mountains (and who knows how your party gets down from there alive?) but poetic as well. Could have also allowed for some interesting boss fight mechanics that wouldn't work in the "real" world.

[AresKeith]

I have done both. A few times. But the memories in the Templar route pretty much mirrored what i already found out from Legacy. Woke up not knowing what was going on, the Cory and some others are the Magisters and so on. Easy to forget since, although it was new for my Inquisitor, it was not for me. So it didn't really stand out for me. But the Wiki shows there is more to him than was ever shown in the game. We were just told that he was "stronger than the Maker"

 

The fact you don't learn this with the Mages is another problem all together.

 

Well I know that the first paragraph is basically in a War Table mission on the Templar path, I don't remember the rest though 

[Smudjygirl]

Well I know that the first paragraph is basically in a War Table mission on the Templar path, I don't remember the rest though 

 

Even if you read it, if it's never explored it doesn't stand out. If we got a clue, why not be able to follow it. I can see the gap between the story and the game now. We may very well have had some awesome reveals about Cory, but they were reduced to a piece of written text that many people don't read (or like me, forget because Codex to me are more of an expansion on the law)

 

To explain. Instead of having it written and reduced to a war table mission, why could we not speak to Dorian about it. He shouts at us when he starts his search. I would have loved the chance to talk about it with him. Especially because it clearly bothers him the legends are true. That would have made that piece of Lore stick in my mind

[BansheeOwnage]

It's not just people that were neutral that had their opinions changed with Trespasser. I was very strongly against any returning protagonists.

That's true, and I've edited my post to reflect that.

 

I honestly played Inquisition expecting an ending that leaves no opening for the Inquisitor to come back. At the end of the main game, i assumed my Inquisitor would not be back as she would be busy inquisitoring. Or dismantling the Inquisition without a bomb. Then Trespasser came and it opened up her story again. I was honestly quite annoyed. But i have no preference for protags. Persona has new PC's ever time, and it works.  Witcher has one and it works. Dragon Age doesn't seem to be able to fit into one particular slot.

I wish it intentionally didn't fit into either slot. As in, I wish it had recurring protagonists sometimes, and new characters sometimes. Just do whatever would make a great story, instead of shoehorning in a new protagonist even when it doesn't make sense, for the sake of... well, nothing, really. Reasons.

 

What was the point in building up (what we're told but not shown is) this powerful organization to rival kingdoms, to compare it to "founding the jedi order" (which persisted for thousands of years...) only to immediately dismantle it? The inquisition itself wasn't even necessary for most of the stuff we did in DA:I. This kind of thing is why I always thought each game should be much smaller scale and self contained as well as not having companions and plotlines go from one game to the next.

The fact that they weakened the Inquisition into Oblivion regardless of your choices rubs me the wrong way, slightly more because it was done in a DLC. It's like: In this DLC, we'll reveal that your companion used you, is planning to destroy the world, your awesome fade-powers are removed, you lose half an arm, and your organization that you lead will be either taken over or forced to work in secret.

 

Like... wow. I wouldn't mind all of that terrible-ness the Inquisitor has to deal with if we'd just continue the story in DA4, but if that's really the end for them... that sucks. I never really thought about it until now, because I thought they might return.

 

Addendum: Vbibbi said there should have been choices to fight against eventual disbanding, even if it led nowhere. Well, there were a few options to give your opinion in Trespasser. Leliana asks you, and I said we shouldn't disband. The Qunari prove it's still needed. After all, without the Inquisition foiling their gaatlok plan, all of the major leaders in Thedas would be dust.

 

So, there was a fairly large disconnect to me when my Inquisitor appeared in the court after meeting Solas and my only options were to either disband or downsize and lose authority/agency. She went into the eluvian thinking she shouldn't disband, but when she's back, somehow she's convinced that you need to? Who convinced her? Because Solas convinced her more than ever that they still need the Inquisition. More than ever...

 

So yeah, I hate out-of-character moments and contrived decisions made so Bioware doesn't have to actually write diverging plotlines

[AresKeith]

So, there was a fairly large disconnect to me when my Inquisitor appeared in the court after meeting Solas and my only options were to either disband or downsize and lose authority/agency. She went into the eluvian thinking she shouldn't disband, but when she's back, somehow she's convinced that you need to? Who convinced her? Because Solas convinced her more than ever that they still need the Inquisition. More than ever...

 

 

Imo those opinions were there for different reasons, because regardless of the options the "Inquisition" becomes a shadow organization in effort against Solas

[In Exile]

This is what confuses me the most. I really, really, really do not understand. And if they didn't think they opened up Quizzy's story during Trespasser, then I really, really, really don't understand that either.

 

I should probably just give up on a company if I can't understand their narrative decisions anymore. But it hurts; Bioware style games are my favourite.

 

*Deep sigh*

 

You're looking it at it from the wrong perspective. The Inquisitor's story was very open before Trespasser - there was effectively no limit on what the Inquisitor could want or do at the end of DA:I. You had a superpowered being with an ancient elven reality-bending power, an organization that was said to be one of the most powerful in Thedas and didn't answer to anyone, and a potential threat that the Inquisitor could - or maybe wouldn't - get involved in any number of immeasurable ways.

 

With the HOF and Hawke, people pre-release all complained about non-involvement. Especially with the HOF being stuffed in a fridge, basically. So Bioware solved all of this (they likely think) by greatly narrowing the fate of the Inquisitor, giving a very clear narrative role (stop Solas) that will likely not have a major or substantial part of the main story of DA:4 for some time, and thereby give you a reason to basically "Hawke" the Inquisitor - the two protagonists meet only when the Solas plot comes to the forefront and only for that part.

 

It makes perfect sense that - from the save import POV - Bioware narrowed the story. Where, I think, people object is that they feel like they should still take part in that story with the Inquisitor. But that only comes about from the fact we played the character. Plenty of stories - if they started after Trespasser - would have the Inquisitor as a background character. The example of Obi-Wan is a great one. 

[Ieldra]

The fact that they weakened the Inquisition into Oblivion regardless of your choices rubs me the wrong way, slightly more because it was done in a DLC. It's like: In this DLC, we'll reveal that your companion used you, is planning to destroy the world, your awesome fade-powers are removed, you lose half an arm, and your organization that you lead will be either taken over or forced to work in secret.
 
Like... wow. I wouldn't mind all of that terrible-ness the Inquisitor has to deal with if we'd just continue the story in DA4, but if that's really the end for them... that sucks. I never really thought about it until now, because I thought they might return.
 
Addendum: Vbibbi said there should have been choices to fight against eventual disbanding, even if it led nowhere. Well, there were a few options to give your opinion in Trespasser. Leliana asks you, and I said we shouldn't disband. The Qunari prove it's still needed. After all, without the Inquisition foiling their gaatlok plan, all of the major leaders in Thedas would be dust.
 
So, there was a fairly large disconnect to me when my Inquisitor appeared in the court after meeting Solas and my only options were to either disband or downsize and lose authority/agency. She went into the eluvian thinking she shouldn't disband, but when she's back, somehow she's convinced that you need to? Who convinced her? Because Solas convinced her more than ever that they still need the Inquisition. More than ever...

So yeah, I hate out-of-character moments and contrived decisions made so Bioware doesn't have to actually write diverging plotlines

I guess I'm not the only one who felt "I lose" after Trespasser. It was even worse for me, for my main Inquisitor had gotten invested in some of the things she lost - her political power and most notably the anchor. Also, you had four opponents in Trespasser, and of those, you lose against three (Solas, Ferelden and Orlais) and win only against one (the qunari).

Trespasser told its story well, but I hated the outcome. It's the main reason why I don't want the Inquisitor back unless I can play her as a considerably darker character, for what I feel is more like "Damn them to hell, I'm going to take back what's mine", rather than "I must save the world from Solas".

[Blood Mage Reaver]

Ending slavery in Tevinter is more on paper than in practice, like in real life when slavery was abolished it took decades for fiscal policies to catch up with laws and curb widespread illegal slavery.

 

Take Orlais for example, while slavery is illegal in paper, in practice several nobles abuse their servants and pay them the bare minimum to affor survival which is basically another more brand and disguised form of slavery.

 

I doubt that BioWare would leave that choice in the player's hand but I also don't think they are going to leave it like that.

 

Knowing Solas, he will free all elves in slavery and recruit them for his army, effectively ending most slavery in both Tevinter and Qunari lands.

 

By the time we defeat Solas most former slaves will be beyond the reach of their former masters, who will most likely have already died in their rebellion anyway, so Tevinter will be forced to accept a path without slavery wheter they or the player likes it or not.

 

What we can influence, however, is how Tevinter is going to rebuild itself after losing it's elven slaves. Most likely there will be quests to support either free enterprise or magical solutions for the issue.

[Smudjygirl]

I guess I'm not the only one who felt "I lose" after Trespasser. It was even worse for me, for my main Inquisitor had gotten invested in some of the things she lost - her political power and most notably the anchor. Also, you had four opponents in Trespasser, and of those, you lose against three (Solas, Ferelden and Orlais) and win only against one (the qunari).

Trespasser told its story well, but I hated the outcome. It's the main reason why I don't want the Inquisitor back unless I can play her as a considerably darker character, for what I feel is more like "Damn them to hell, I'm going to take back what's mine", rather than "I must save the world from Solas".

 

Imagine how amazing it would be to play a character who is all but broken. It would be the perfect reason to play someone who thinks "damn the consequences, i've tried it your way before"

[In Exile]

I guess I'm not the only one who felt "I lose" after Trespasser. It was even worse for me, for my main Inquisitor had gotten invested in some of the things she lost - her political power and most notably the anchor. Also, you had four opponents in Trespasser, and of those, you lose against three (Solas, Ferelden and Orlais) and win only against one (the qunari).

Trespasser told its story well, but I hated the outcome. It's the main reason why I don't want the Inquisitor back unless I can play her as a considerably darker character, for what I feel is more like "Damn them to hell, I'm going to take back what's mine", rather than "I must save the world from Solas".

 

Let me say this: while I am of the view that there is no need for the Inquisitor to return as a protagonist, I absolutely felt the same way about Trespasser. In fact, I basically felt trolled the entire time. It wasn't so much about the character losing - there are loses all the time in good narratives, sometimes the bad guy wins, and low points in a story can make the high points feel all the sweeter (In Your Heart Shall Burn handles that low to high very well, IMO). 

 

What Trespasser does, however, is strip you down and defeat you and just... ends. It's an awful and dissatisfying way of doing it regardless of what DA4 does, and the Inquisitor as a protagonist in some future game does not change being trolled by Solas (and Bioware). 

[wright1978]

 

Oh I mean I agree. I do think Bioware's intention all along though was for the Inquisition not to last past the game. They show a poor track record on having player choices actually matter, and maintaining a new organization that is led by a (former) protagonist is more hassle than they're willing/able to do. They did hint that disbanding would be an option with Mother Giselle, but I ink there should have at least been an option for us to fight the two choices given, even if we eventually have to give in.

 

 

Really was the final nail in the coffin of the inquisitor for me that he was railroaded into the 2 completely unappealing choices without having option to fight it.

[Ieldra]

Imagine how amazing it would be to play a character who is all but broken. It would be the perfect reason to play someone who thinks "damn the consequences, i've tried it your way before"

Yeah. I'm just realizing how much I'm tired of playing the hero. A topic for a separate thread...

[Smudjygirl]

Yeah. I'm just realizing how much I'm tired of playing the hero. A topic for a separate thread...

 

It does tie into this discussion, though. I did not like playing the Warden as "bad", because they were actually just an arrogant ass. Aggressive Hawke (who i assume was supposed to fill that role) also was just a pompous so and so. The Inquisitor can barely make morally grey choices. 

 

A New PC can easily make "evil" choices, but generally it just (to me) comes across as selfish and foolish. Of course, it can be seen as "bad for a good cause", such as the Golems option in Origins. I would enjoy a character who goes beyond simple "good" and "bad". But generally, the situation must dictate the option, which can be incredibly hard to do with a New character. Especially in rags to riches stories.

[In Exile]

Imagine how amazing it would be to play a character who is all but broken. It would be the perfect reason to play someone who thinks "damn the consequences, i've tried it your way before"

 

Not even a little bit amazing. It also doesn't make sense, and it still amounts to just being a psycho. To your subsequent post, it's not about being "beyond good and bad" - it's just being a psycho with a sob story, and not even a convincing one at that. 

[Smudjygirl]

Not even a little bit amazing. It also doesn't make sense, and it still amounts to just being a psycho. To your subsequent post, it's not about being "beyond good and bad" - it's just being a psycho with a sob story, and not even a convincing one at that. 

 

That would depend entirely on the writing. They wouldn't need to be "psycho" or have a "sob story". But simply be a product of past events. It would be the players choice to decide exactly how past events have shaped who the person was, rather simply having an "evil" option because not everyone wants to be "good".

[vertigomez]

Hnnnn... I didn't feel like I "lost" after Trespasser. I think my Inquisitor was frustrated and under a lot of pressure, but at the end of the day she got to dissolve an organization she didn't particularly want to lead anyway, and got rid of the mark (which she also never asked for) that was killing her.

I suppose whether one was satisfied with the disband/serve options depends on how ambitious you perceive your character to be?

[Battlebloodmage]

It's pretty obvious that there would be a new protagonist, something DA has always had, those who think otherwise is just wishful thinking, especially if they hold onto to the hope that Solas is involved. Solas could be involved, but that doesn't mean the Inquisitor would be the one who resolve the issue. The game makes the ending to be varied too greatly, Inquisitor lost their arm, the group disbanded, most companions could be dead or gone. That's a good thing though, Inquisitor is boring as Hell. It's good they move on to another protagonist, at least, there's a chance they may not be boring, while I have already gotten sick of the Inquisitor. 

[In Exile]

That would depend entirely on the writing. They wouldn't need to be "psycho" or have a "sob story". But simply be a product of past events. It would be the players choice to decide exactly how past events have shaped who the person was, rather simply having an "evil" option because not everyone wants to be "good".

It's a sob story. In DAI, the Inquisitor forms a cult of personality and is worshiped as a divine figure. You get control of a massive multinational and international organization that is quite literally free from all state influence and self-governing. You have godlike power thrust on you via the anchor.

By Trespasser you lose your divine power and the organization that basically made you a god king on Thedas and are "reduced" to either being one of the highest officials in the most powerful religious organization in southern Thedas with the backing of its most powerful empire, or a chance to tell them all to **** off while still being a divine figure.

The Inquisitor lost in the sense of video game loss. But in the grand scheme of things you can end Trespasser with more power and status than most living nobles in southern Thedas.

Going "evil" is ridiculous, and more petulance than anything.

[Smudjygirl]

It's a sob story. In DAI, the Inquisitor forms a cult of personality and is worshiped as a divine figure. You get control of a massive multinational and international organization that is quite literally free from all state influence and self-governing. You have godlike power thrust on you via the anchor.

By Trespasser you lose your divine power and the organization that basically made you a god king on Thedas and are "reduced" to either being one of the highest officials in the most powerful religious organization in southern Thedas with the backing of its most powerful empire, or a chance to tell them all to **** off while still being a divine figure.

The Inquisitor lost in the sense of video game loss. But in the grand scheme of things you can end Trespasser with more power and status than most living nobles in southern Thedas.

Going "evil" is ridiculous, and more petulance than anything.

 

You are answering something i never said. I did not apply what i said to the Inquisitor, but rather that having returning PC's has a few perks when it comes to characterisation. I could just have easily been talking about my hopes for the new PC. And then i applied it to the DA series, because they are building on a story without the characters that are involved and invested in it. The "bad" options in Origins just made the Warden look crazy, they were not an awesomely amazing bad guy. And even i i were talking about the Inquisitor, i never mentioned them becoming "evil". Simply that the more tyrannical moves  would make more sense to someone who actually understands the consequences of failing.

 

And a significant number of protags have a "sob story". It's rare to play someone who has been around the block and never had anything bad happen to them. I would be interested in a story where i can decide how they respond to everything that has happened. Though truly, such a game would likely be difficult to achieve

[wright1978]

Hnnnn... I didn't feel like I "lost" after Trespasser. I think my Inquisitor was frustrated and under a lot of pressure, but at the end of the day she got to dissolve an organization she didn't particularly want to lead anyway, and got rid of the mark (which she also never asked for) that was killing her.

I suppose whether one was satisfied with the disband/serve options depends on how ambitious you perceive your character to be?

 

Yeah for those that never wanted to lead they got their wish. Those that wanted a life of religious service got their wish. Those are very narrow bounds to drive everyone else within.

[vertigomez]

Yeah for those that never wanted to lead they got their wish. Those that wanted a life of religious service got their wish. Those are very narrow bounds to drive everyone else within.

True enough. I just wanted to demonstrate that not everybody felt like they got robbed.

[Iakus]

Yeah for those that never wanted to lead they got their wish. Those that wanted a life of religious service got their wish. Those are very narrow bounds to drive everyone else within.

Those who wanted to run a secret society from the shadows rather than lead armies and daring others to invade also got what they wanted.