266 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

NOTE:  Even the thieves... like Robin Hood... often have hearts of gold and give back as much as they take. 

 

Ultimately though - what's the story of the selfish person trying to say?  What value does it have for a 60+ hour game?  Do we think a majority of people want to play an Enron executive screwing over old people? 

I wouldn't mind a Robin Hood type, actually. What I want to play *against* is the heroic sacrifice theme. If I'm in the place to save the world, ok, I'll do it, I won't ask payment, but I want to profit, too, if the opportunity arises. Most of all, I don't want the story to take it all away again in the end because of some doctrine that there must be sacrifice, or some doctrine that the hero must always lose the powers that enabled them to win.

 

So in fact, my first preference wouldn't be something dark, but I *really* resent the type of outcome exemplified by the end of Trespasser. In some way, it's worse that ME3's - you lose your life as Shepard, yes, but at least you lose it for a good purpose (in principle, the execution isn't exactly satisfying). The Inquisitor loses less, but they lose it to political rivalries in-world and storytelling doctrine on the meta-level, and no one gains from it in-world but enemies and rivals. If I'm going to lose anyway, at least let me play a character who deserves it.

[Almostfaceman]

I wouldn't mind a Robin Hood type, actually. What I want to play *against* is the heroic sacrifice theme. If I'm in the place to save the world, ok, I'll do it, I won't ask payment, but I want to profit, too, if the opportunity arises. Most of all, I don't want the story to take it all away again in the end because of some doctrine that there must be sacrifice, or some doctrine that the hero must always lose the powers that enabled them to win.

 

I think Bioware is convinced they have to do the "heroic sacrifice" to make a new protagonist interesting or viable. 

[Steelcan]

Do you think that a game that does have such a narrative should reward you for being self centered?  Or should you be called out on it by other characters in the game?

[In Exile]

I wouldn't mind a Robin Hood type, actually. What I want to play *against* is the heroic sacrifice theme. If I'm in the place to save the world, ok, I'll do it, I won't ask payment, but I want to profit, too, if the opportunity arises. Most of all, I don't want the story to take it all away again in the end because of some doctrine that there must be sacrifice, or some doctrine that the hero must always lose the powers that enabled them to win.

 

So in fact, my first preference wouldn't be something dark, but I *really* resent the type of outcome exemplified by the end of Trespasser. In some way, it's worse that ME3's - you lose your life as Shepard, yes, but at least you lose it for a good purpose (in principle, the execution isn't exactly satisfying). The Inquisitor loses less, but they lose it to political rivalries in-world and storytelling doctrine on the meta-level, and no one gains from it in-world but enemies and rivals. If I'm going to lose anyway, at least let me play a character who deserves it.

 

The Inquisitor conspired to subvert the sovereignty of two nations, intentionally or not. The Inquisitor definitely deserved to lose in that scenario. Why would you think you'd get to have a personal fiefdom without either swearing fealty to someone or a blood war?

[Medhia_Nox]

Do you think that a game that does have such a narrative should reward you for being self centered?  Or should you be called out on it by other characters in the game?

 

I think in a game like that you should be rewarded with gaming power (higher stats, greater wealth, more powerful items) but the NPCs should also hate you more.  

 

While a more self-sacrificing character should have less of all that (lower stats, less wealth, less powerful items) but the greater support of NPCs.

 

I think it would actually be interesting to have the "bad" guy be personally a badass that doesn't need people... while the good guy is less of a lone wolf and relies on more powerful NPC companions. 

[Ieldra]

Do you think that a game that does have such a narrative should reward you for being self centered?  Or should you be called out on it by other characters in the game?

Sometimes one, sometimes the other. Or both at the same time. Rather like in RL, I suppose. I don't want the story to be one-sided.

[In Exile]

I think in a game like that you should be rewarded with gaming power (higher stats, greater wealth, more powerful items) but the NPCs should also hate you more.  

 

While a more self-sacrificing character should have less of all that (lower stats, less wealth, less powerful items) but the greater support of NPCs.

 

I think it would actually be interesting to have the "bad" guy be personally a badass that doesn't need people... while the good guy is less of a lone wolf and relies on more powerful NPC companions. 

But that's gibberish, because it actually works the other way around IRL. Being well-liked is the absolute key to social power. There's a reason why charisma gets people really, really far. Plus, sycophants. 

[Ieldra]

The Inquisitor conspired to subvert the sovereignty of two nations, intentionally or not. The Inquisitor definitely deserved to lose in that scenario. Why would you think you'd get to have a personal fiefdom without either swearing fealty to someone or a blood war?

Because I saved everyone's asses?

 

I'm not saying the political situation painted in Trespasser isn't realistic. It is, unfortunately, very realistic. But it's not the only realistic scenario I can imagine, and why are we given this one in preference to others? For no other reason that the writers wanted the Inquisitor out of the way and as much of the status quo restored as possible.

[In Exile]

Because I saved everyone's asses?

 

I'm not saying the political situation painted in Trespasser isn't realistic. It is, unfortunately, very realistic. But it's not the only realistic scenario I can imagine, and why are we given this one in preference to others? For no other reason that the writers wanted the Inquisitor out of the way and as much of the status quo restored as possible.

 

That's the only realistic scenario. There's no other scenario were Ferelden and Orlais let you annex their territory. 

 

Saving everyone gives you status and standing. You have that part - it's why Orlais wants to give you a prominent role in their empire and officially-backed religion, and why Ferelden is terrified of your existence. It doesn't let you get a personal fiefdom as God King/Queen. 

[Medhia_Nox]

But that's gibberish, because it actually works the other way around IRL. Being well-liked is the absolute key to social power. There's a reason why charisma gets people really, really far. Plus, sycophants. 

 

I'm not going to argue with you... but climbing in power does not make you friends - it makes you sycophants who would betray you at the drop of a hat if they could get the power you have.  

 

Someone should tell Charles Dicken's about his gibberish about Ebenzer... or Fitzgerald about his Gatsby... and if you think all those people that attended Gatsby's parties were his friends... you need to check your reading comprehension.

 

As for "IRL" - what great political or business leader is known for his strong friendships?  Zuckerberg perhaps?  Trump maybe?  Alexander the Great - hmm, his friends might have poisoned him.. so no.  Maybe Queen Elizabeth?  Yeah, nope.  Oh, I know... Bill Gates.  Nope.  Okay.. it has to be Steve Jobs.  

 

Yeah none of them EVER screwed over friends and colleagues in their climb to power... they gathered powerful friends and together rose to fame - only, they didn't.  

You don't rise to power without making more enemies than you do friends... we talked about Machiavelli earlier in this thread... he would most certainly agree, but what does he know.   

[Heimdall]

I really hope should the Inquisitor appear in DA4 that they are not introduced as nobility in Kirkwall. Sure, there are Inquisitors that works for, like the noble who likes collecting noble titles, or the qunari/elf/dwarf who likes to thumb their nose at humans however they can, but it would be a blunder on the level of Hawke always complaining about blood magic in DAI. That title needs to be forgotten in everything but headcanon.

I actually think that's where the Inquisitor's part in the story could kick off, with them using their title and status as a means to an end to infiltrate high society for the purpose of investigating Solas.

Wait, I feel an idea coming on...

What if, while the new PC's part plays out in Tevinter, the Inquisitor's missions took place at several locations along a journey to eventually arrive in Tevinter for the final act? Imagine it started in Denerim and we saw it in Frosbite? Then Kirkwall, then overland to Nevara or another Marcher city or oversea to some part of Rivain or Llomeryn? Lots of possibilities there...

[vertigomez]

I actually think that's where the Inquisitor's part in the story could kick off, with them using their title and status as a means to an end to infiltrate high society for the purpose of investigating Solas.

Wait, I feel an idea coming on...

What if, while the new PC's part plays out in Tevinter, the Inquisitor's missions took place at several locations along a journey to eventually arrive in Tevinter for the final act? Imagine it started in Denerim and we saw it in Frosbite? Then Kirkwall, then overland to Nevara or another Marcher city or oversea to some part of Rivain or Llomeryn? Lots of possibilities there...

I love the idea of something like this on a Red Jenny scale, or with the PC as the head of their own spy ring. We'd be much more likely to keep our organization and our position that we are with the prominent, militarist Inquisiton. It would also allow a more intimate story à la DA2 instead of the epic, heroic world-saving stuff.

[abaris]

I think Bioware is convinced they have to do the "heroic sacrifice" to make a new protagonist interesting or viable. 

 

Which it isn't for many people, since roleplaying games are escapism. A means to forge a near perfect persona, with the wish that something great awaits at the end. Not heroic failure.

[AlanC9]

I'm not going to argue with you... but climbing in power does not make you friends - it makes you sycophants who would betray you at the drop of a hat if they could get the power you have.

Someone should tell Charles Dicken's about his gibberish about Ebenzer... or Fitzgerald about his Gatsby... and if you think all those people that attended Gatsby's parties were his friends... you need to check your reading comprehension.

As for "IRL" - what great political or business leader is known for his strong friendships? Zuckerberg perhaps? Trump maybe? Alexander the Great - hmm, his friends might have poisoned him.. so no. Maybe Queen Elizabeth? Yeah, nope. Oh, I know... Bill Gates. Nope. Okay.. it has to be Steve Jobs.

Yeah none of them EVER screwed over friends and colleagues in their climb to power... they gathered powerful friends and together rose to fame - only, they didn't.
You don't rise to power without making more enemies than you do friends... we talked about Machiavelli earlier in this thread... he would most certainly agree, but what does he know.

So, you're not going to argue, except you are?

More seriously, I think you two are talking about entirely different kinds of 'liked."

[German Soldier]

So, you're not going to argue, except you are?

Completly miss the sarcasm......

[RoseLawliet]

I actually think that's where the Inquisitor's part in the story could kick off, with them using their title and status as a means to an end to infiltrate high society for the purpose of investigating Solas.

Wait, I feel an idea coming on...

What if, while the new PC's part plays out in Tevinter, the Inquisitor's missions took place at several locations along a journey to eventually arrive in Tevinter for the final act? Imagine it started in Denerim and we saw it in Frosbite? Then Kirkwall, then overland to Nevara or another Marcher city or oversea to some part of Rivain or Llomeryn? Lots of possibilities there...

 

Not trying to be rude or anything, but how would "high society" help find Solas? The people who are/would follow him are servants or worse... except those who do follow him have already left and gone into hiding wherever they did.

[Imryll]

In my inquisitor's first conversation with Mother Giselle at Haven, they discussed the original inquisition and why Justinia chose to revive that name, and Giselle commented that the Inquisition's distinctive feature was that they fought hard, and when their work was done, they laid down their weapons.  From the time of that conversation very early in the game, I assumed that doing what only the Inquisition could do and then having the wisdom to disband was the model for "success" in DAI. "Winning" is closing the Breach and killing Corypheus, while laying the groundwork for the return of control to Ferelden and Orlais, not setting up yourself as an independent arbiter of policy and law within otherwise sovereign countries.  You only "lose" if you seek to retain control rather than allow others to determine their fates--rather like Solas, come to think of it.

 

Personally, I find it much more interesting to try and figure out what is good (or evil) under particular circumstances, than to try to play a self-interested character, which seems to me a rather shallow approach to a game world.

[Eelectrica]

Tyranny actually looks rather interesting especially since the developers apparently want to avoid the stupidly evil trope and provide more nuances than the expected. I may buy it if it continues to look interesting such as if the method of solving matters through talking holds up.  

Definitely looking forward to hearing more information about it. I suppose when E3 arrives we'll know more.

Hopefully the character isn't evil for the sake of being evil, but has a logic behind the actions.

[Heimdall]

Not trying to be rude or anything, but how would "high society" help find Solas? The people who are/would follow him are servants or worse... except those who do follow him have already left and gone into hiding wherever they did.

Because the rich and influential like to hold onto treasures and magical items that could be useful to both Solas and the Inqusitor, so it's likely that Solas would target one stoke point.

[Jackums]

I'd be satisfied with a return to the Origins style of choices. It had plenty of selfish options. The issue was just that the actual payoff was rarely better than when doing the "moral" thing.

 

Origins style choice variation with more balanced gain.

[abaris]

I'd be satisfied with a return to the Origins style of choices. It had plenty of selfish options. The issue was just that the actual payoff was rarely better than when doing the "moral" thing.

 

Origins style choice variation with more balanced gain.

 

I haven't played throughh origins yet, but I get the feeling of it offering quite a lot of choices for beinng selfish or even an outright tyrant. At least as far as dialogue is concerned.

[Pavan]

What I would like is to have a dark/broody/Angry main character (or becomes one over the course of the game) due to making hard or wrong decisions that get many killed/tortured etc - all for the greater good. or they make decisions that seem kind at the time only for them to have far reaching and dire consequences later in the story wich would really ****** the MC off.

 

Someone who questions whether what they are doing is actually right, because its taking its toll etc.

 

I think after the Inquisitor a lot of us simply want a darker, more brutal character/story.

 

Honeslty I would love for the next MC to be like Guts from the anime/manga Berserk in terms of temperament and coldness/brutality etc

 

 

A key part of that is the voice acting - the male voices just seemed so pansy and plain in DA2 and DAI

 

We need someone who sounds like Batman shouting "WHERE IS HE!"

 

 

Also we need to lose, at least once e.g. A quest to save a village from the bad guys - we get there, its a hard fight, we are about to win, then a mage comes in with some crazy magic, blows up the entire area, many innocents dead, maybe one of the MC's friends/family dies.

This leads the MC down a dark path for revenge maybe starts using blood magic if a mage etc.

[Addictress]

You guys

 

What if we control Solas in DA4? Remember how they said they originally had the idea that we control Solas in Trespasser?

 

HHNNNNNGGGGGGgggg

[Shechinah]

You guys
 
What if we control Solas in DA4? Remember how they said they originally had the idea that we control Solas in Trespasser?
 
HHNNNNNGGGGGGgggg

 

Wait, they did? Was that why he had a battle stance in Trespasser? Because I remember a video where someone accidentally killed Solas in Trespasser because of a bug and I wondered how that was possible.

[Addictress]

Wait, they did? Was that why he had a battle stance in Trespasser? Because I remember a video where someone accidentally killed Solas in Trespasser because of a bug and I wondered how that was possible.

crap, I can't find where I learned that now. I swear I saw it somewhere D: