40 réponses à ce sujet

[Hrungr]

That is funny, Solas reminded me of Sherlock Holmes.

 

Which one...?

 

If we could downvote posts on this board, it might be managable... then again.

 

I think it's mostly when either character gets really emotional it comes out. If you take Solas to Redcliff in In Hushed Whispers, his little spiel when you meet him again in the prison does this soooo much - co-incidentally that's also the time-travel plot. Then there's also the whole lonely traveler, with impossible knowledge, who only shows up when there's trouble brewing, thing with them, and both the Doctor and Solas having essentially destroyed their people because of a war.

 

Yeah, good point with some of the parallels in their history. I saw Solas largely as a Tolkein Elf transplanted into Thedas. That particular formal manner of speech, the range of emotion, the general demeanor, the wisdom, the immortality, that faint air of I'm-obviously-superior-so-I don't-need-to-say-it-out-loud... And that "their" time was over. 

[Big I]

What are you talking about? Patrick Weekes has simply confirmed in this interview what has been strongly implied in Trespasser itself - that was not any sort of offshoot, but a super-secret and fully sanctioned Qunari operation.

 

....You really think that the Qunandar would allow Viddasala occupy their only source of lyrium if they didn't know she was turning Sareebas into a super-soldier? You think that epilogue slides would mention that the Qunari plan of sneakily invading the South was thwarted and hence they turned to Tevinter if the Qunai leadership didn't know about it?

 

Vidassala's been disavowed only because Solas messed up their plan by making Inquisition aware of it and enabled Inquisitor to go after the qunari.

 

 

Er, no, she doesn't tell Inquisitor anything that is even close to "continuing to claim a false mandate"  We can have a full conversation with her about it, that is mostly about metaphors and interpreting everything that happens as evidence of Maker's subtle actions (and as flawed as her thinking I personally think it is, I consider it very realistic, considering that I know very smart, compassionate people who believe the exact way she does).

 

There is no strong implication that the Viddasala was operating with full authority. The only thing that might is Bull following her orders, but we never get to delve into why exactly he does that. All other evidence in Trespasser (the note you find in her study, her departure from qunari policy regarding giving saarebases lyrium, the disavowal of her actions and reaffirmation of the alliance if it exists) supports the opposite interpretation.

 

As for Giselle, she advocates lying to the faithful by omitting Justinia's involvement. Does she tell you to give a sermon on the inivisibile hand of the Maker in the world, or push for the Chant to be interpreted metaphorically rather than literally? No, she just says don't tell them, they wouldn't understand, just let them keep thinking that Andraste turned up in the flesh to save your life. It's dishonest and manipulative. Contrast this with Cassandra's disgusted reaction to the whitewashing of Ameridan's ethnicity and syncretism.

[Dancing_Dolphin]

Which one...?

All of them, mashed together, minus the drug addiction.
Basically, their personalities struck me as being very similar.

[Rascoth]

All of them, mashed together, minus the drug addiction.

Are we sure there's no elfroot problem? 

[pdusen]

There is no strong implication that the Viddasala was operating with full authority. The only thing that might is Bull following her orders, but we never get to delve into why exactly he does that. All other evidence in Trespasser (the note you find in her study, her departure from qunari policy regarding giving saarebases lyrium, the disavowal of her actions and reaffirmation of the alliance if it exists) supports the opposite interpretation.

 

You had like... five people immediately chime in that you're wrong about this. Clearly, you missed something.

[midnight tea]

There is no strong implication that the Viddasala was operating with full authority. The only thing that might is Bull following her orders, but we never get to delve into why exactly he does that. All other evidence in Trespasser (the note you find in her study, her departure from qunari policy regarding giving saarebases lyrium, the disavowal of her actions and reaffirmation of the alliance if it exists) supports the opposite interpretation.

 

No, it does not. Quite a few people have a very opposite interpretation from yours - and aside from points I've made before (which you entirely ignored) Bull's betrayal only confirms that it was not any sort of offshoot group. I also see no reason why you'd be so stubborn about it that you keep insisting that Viddasala was working on her own, even though Weekes super-clearly states that it was a legit Qunari invasion.

 

 

 

 

As for Giselle, she advocates lying to the faithful by omitting Justinia's involvement. Does she tell you to give a sermon on the inivisibile hand of the Maker in the world, or push for the Chant to be interpreted metaphorically rather than literally? No, she just says don't tell them, they wouldn't understand, just let them keep thinking that Andraste turned up in the flesh to save your life. It's dishonest and manipulative. Contrast this with Cassandra's disgusted reaction to the whitewashing of Ameridan's ethnicity and syncretism.

 

Hey, I agree that her interpretation is problematic, but the way she put it is entirely different from what you're trying to force here. Also - she doesn't say to give a sermon on invisible hand of the Maker, but she very specifically tells you that she believes that this is exactly what happens and why they have to be careful with what they say to the public. For her Andratste and the Maker have indeed worked through Inky, Justinia and her ghost in the Fade. Andraste was there, only not in her original flesh. For her it isn't a lie, only she understands the fact that simple folk have trouble understanding metaphors and that saying "no, it was Justinia, not Andraste" skews the picture either way.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Bet Dai Grepher hates being proven wrong yet again

[Big I]

No, it does not. Quite a few people have a very opposite interpretation from yours - and aside from points I've made before (which you entirely ignored) Bull's betrayal only confirms that it was not any sort of offshoot group. I also see no reason why you'd be so stubborn about it that you keep insisting that Viddasala was working on her own, even though Weekes super-clearly states that it was a legit Qunari invasion.

 

We're not shown why Iron Bull betrays us. Is it becasue he's been working against us the whole time? Does he have a pre-existing relationship with the Viddasala? Is it just because she's a high ranking memeber of the Ben-Hassrath who gave him an order? We don't know, it could be any of them or another reason althogether.

 

Regarding the lyrium mine, Bull and the qunari templar both react as though the Viddasala is acting outside her role in giving lyrium to saarebases. The mine itself may have been hidden from the Triumvirate, since you can only get to it through eluvians. In order to accept that the Viddasala was running an official operation, we have to believe that the Triumvirate were okay with:

 

-establishing a lyrium mine only accessible through magic

-making saarebases more dangerous with lyrium

-turning a tamassran into a saarebas, and then feeding him red lyrium until he becomes some sort of ogre hybrid.

-setting up camp in the Fade.

-forcing the Vidassala to produce her own gaatlok rather than ship whatever she needed from Par Vollen

-blowing up any alliance they have with the Inquisition (literally)

 

All of that is possible, but is never shown. It's not even implied. As one of the three "seconds in command" of the Ben Hassrath the Viddasala had the resoures and authority to set up her own operation.

[Big I]

Hey, I agree that her interpretation is problematic, but the way she put it is entirely different from what you're trying to force here. Also - she doesn't say to give a sermon on invisible hand of the Maker, but she very specifically tells you that she believes that this is exactly what happens and why they have to be careful with what they say to the public. For her Andratste and the Maker have indeed worked through Inky, Justinia and her ghost in the Fade. Andraste was there, only not in her original flesh. For her it isn't a lie, only she understands the fact that simple folk have trouble understanding metaphors and that saying "no, it was Justinia, not Andraste" skews the picture either way.

 

If she truly believed that "the Maker moves in mysterious ways", where was that opinion in any prior conversation with her? Nowhere does she say "I don't think it was Andraste who saved you, but that doesn't matter because the Maker is in all of us" or anything like that. Before Adamant by all indiciations her faith is a literal one. It's only after Adamant that she "reveals" that she feels the Chant is about metaphor and storytelling. Contrast this, again, with Cassandra, who despite her unswerving belief in the Inquisitor being sent by the Maker is always unflinchingly honest, maybe even a little sceptical about the exact mechanism behind that.

[BioFan (Official)]

I'm surprised no one has posted the side by side comparison of Solas with Flemeth and Solas with Quizzy.

 

Pretty similar scenes actually... interesting...

 

 

https://twitter.com/...580425979076609

[Dancing_Dolphin]

Pretty similar scenes actually... interesting...
 
 
https://twitter.com/...580425979076609

Thanks!

[Sifr]

Spoiler

We're not shown why Iron Bull betrays us. Is it becasue he's been working against us the whole time? Does he have a pre-existing relationship with the Viddasala? Is it just because she's a high ranking memeber of the Ben-Hassrath who gave him an order? We don't know, it could be any of them or another reason althogether.

 

Regarding the lyrium mine, Bull and the qunari templar both react as though the Viddasala is acting outside her role in giving lyrium to saarebases. The mine itself may have been hidden from the Triumvirate, since you can only get to it through eluvians. In order to accept that the Viddasala was running an official operation, we have to believe that the Triumvirate were okay with:

 

-establishing a lyrium mine only accessible through magic

-making saarebases more dangerous with lyrium

-turning a tamassran into a saarebas, and then feeding him red lyrium until he becomes some sort of ogre hybrid.

-setting up camp in the Fade.

-forcing the Vidassala to produce her own gaatlok rather than ship whatever she needed from Par Vollen

-blowing up any alliance they have with the Inquisition (literally)

 

All of that is possible, but is never shown. It's not even implied. As one of the three "seconds in command" of the Ben Hassrath the Viddasala had the resoures and authority to set up her own operation.

 

Spoiler

Bull betrayed us because if you sacrified the Chargers (or never did the mission) he is loyal to the Qun. Without the Inquisitor convincing him that he'd become the mask and that in his heart he was more Iron Bull than Hissrad, he remained an indoctrinated soldier that was prepared to followed orders without question because the Qun demanded it.

 

As Weekes points out in the interview, we can make him choose the Qun, why'd you think he wouldn't obey it?

 

Even if he wasn't part of the Viddasala's operation, his loyalty to the Qun meant that he would accept the order of a superior officer, even if the operation itself was skirting the bounds of what they normally did. Is it so unlikely that the Qunari wouldn't be willing to break some of the rules to eliminate all magic in the south, even if it meant using means they normally considered anathema?

 

What the Qun says and how the Qun is applied, as well as how the should Qunari act and how the Qunari do act, often end up being rather separate entities. But like all zealots, they are prepared to rationalise, twist and reinterpret their dogma to give them permission to do a distasteful thing under the auspices of the greater good.

 

Just because the Qunari officially disavowed the entire thing, we have no reason to believe that it wasn't an officially sanctioned operation from the Triumvirate. And if not sanctioned, they knew but were prepared to look the other way and disavow all knowledge of the operation and players involved, as most nations tend to do when they conduct black ops.

 

After all, it would be an embarrassment for the Qunari to ever admit that the Inquisition caught them en flagrante delicito, so much so that they might as well had red paint on their hands, which were resting in a cookie jar, while they were sitting on the privvy.

 

While the Arishok probably wasn't acting within sanction during the Kirkwall incident, I doubt that the Triumvirate would have necessarily cared if he'd succeeded and the city had fallen under his control. But since the Arishok failed to take Kirkwall, like Viddasala with her plan to assassinate the Exalted Council, the Triumvirate are going to spin the heck out of the situation to make it seem like it was a rogue faction at work.

 

Varric tells us everything we need to know about Qunari spin with how they reacted to Kirkwall;

 

"I believe the phrase they used was, "Let us never speak of this again"."

[Yggdrasil]

Your interview with Patrick Weekes has been covered by GameBanshee, one of my favorite RPG websites.

[In Exile]

We're not shown why Iron Bull betrays us. Is it becasue he's been working against us the whole time? Does he have a pre-existing relationship with the Viddasala? Is it just because she's a high ranking memeber of the Ben-Hassrath who gave him an order? We don't know, it could be any of them or another reason althogether.

 

Regarding the lyrium mine, Bull and the qunari templar both react as though the Viddasala is acting outside her role in giving lyrium to saarebases. The mine itself may have been hidden from the Triumvirate, since you can only get to it through eluvians. In order to accept that the Viddasala was running an official operation, we have to believe that the Triumvirate were okay with:

 

-establishing a lyrium mine only accessible through magic

-making saarebases more dangerous with lyrium

-turning a tamassran into a saarebas, and then feeding him red lyrium until he becomes some sort of ogre hybrid.

-setting up camp in the Fade.

-forcing the Vidassala to produce her own gaatlok rather than ship whatever she needed from Par Vollen

-blowing up any alliance they have with the Inquisition (literally)

 

All of that is possible, but is never shown. It's not even implied. As one of the three "seconds in command" of the Ben Hassrath the Viddasala had the resoures and authority to set up her own operation.

 

We have absolutely no idea how much autonomy a Vidassala actually has with respect to an operation authorized by the Qunari. I don't like using "Triumverate" as the decision-making body because we have no idea how their government works. Based on what we are told through the 3 games, it sounds to me like each of the Triumverate is sovereign within their own sphere. The decisions they make as a joint body are likely related to very high level policies, like e.g. whether the Qunari are going to re-launch their invasion. There's no point to having three notionally equal but separate leaders if they need each other's assent to govern things exclusively within their own jurisdiction. Think of how actual organizations work IRL. 

 

The Qunari also love their post-hoc rationalizations. It's entirely possible that the Vidassala totally had the discretion to do what she did lawfully, until she's up for review (or whatever happened to the Arishok), at which point it's decided that in fact she wasn't acting in accordance with the Qun.

[Yggdrasil]

This is supposed to be a SPOILER FREE thread, so I'd appreciate it if people didn't discuss and spoil the events of Trespasser here!  Move the discussion to the thread that allows spoilers.  I haven't had a chance to play the last DLC, and part of it has already been ruined for me!

[Sifr]

This is supposed to be a SPOILER FREE thread, so I'd appreciate it if people didn't discuss and spoil the events of Trespasser here!  Move the discussion to the thread that allows spoilers.  I haven't had a chance to play the last DLC, and part of it has already been ruined for me!

 

I had considered tagging my post when I wrote it, but the spoilers had been discussed for a while by the point I'd chipped in, so I figured that the damage had already been done and the cat was out of the bag.

 

Still, sincere apologies on my part for the bad form. Retroactively tagging it now and urge others to do the same.