11 ответов в этой теме

[RoseLawliet]

Many many ages ago, before the Veil existed, elves were supposed to be immortal. However, what if their immortality was never their own? Solas claims it was a byproduct of their connection to the Fade, but I'm throwing out the idea that it might be the result of a magical virus-type thing. (And let it be stated now that I have no particularly strong feelings about this idea.) This hypothetical virus encountered the ancient elves, whose immune systems didn't kill it for whatever reason. As it encountered the elves first (and I'm not even sure the other races existed at this point in time, or lived in the same places) it would have evolved to be symbiotic with elves, and elves only.

 

"Thanks for elven midiclorians! GTFO!" said every elf fan here ever. But hey, I'm not done.

 

This is when Solas screwed up the first time and destroyed life as he knew it. As all elves would have been a carrier of this immortality virus by now, the sundering of the world would create two groups of elves: those who were in the Fade, and those who were in the world. If we take Solas at his word that the appearance of the Veil is what eliminated elven immortality, that means that any elf that still had a connection to the Fade would be unaffected. I'm going to assume that those elves who were in the Fade fit this connection, and this is how there is still at least one pocket of ancient elves still alive. Abelas, his guys, and Solas were all in the Fade because they were all in Uthenera. The rest became mortal.

 

"Get to the darkspawn already!" Fine, fine.

 

We all know the tale: the Magisters Sidereal visited the Maker's home without his permission and were hurled back to reality as monsters for their insolence. Mhmm. They actually went to Arlathan and caught elven immortality. (I don't actually like the theory that the Black/Golden City is Arlathan, but assuming it's true...) But the Magisters weren't elves. The immortality virus would do to them what plagues do to humans in real life: most people who catch them die, but a few survive and remain carriers for the rest of their lives. And here's where the magical part of "magical virus-type thing" comes in. Instead of continuing to be the same strain of virus, being in the magisters causes the virus to mutate faster than is natural. Also magically, it warps their appearance (apparently causing clothing and silly hats to fuse with their bodies, have changing eyes, voices that suddenly deepen, that sort of thing). Then the magisters return to reality with their tainted immortality virus, accidentally (or is it?) infect some women, and boom. Darkspawn.

 

There are several sources that say darkspawn don't need to eat, that it is the taint that sustains them. That sounds like immortality to me. And yes, we have three games and several books where people kill darkspawn. While that sounds less immortal, we can also kill ancient elves in Inquisition. As Solas called it, the virus only gives "functional immortality". It makes sense -- its magical nature would allow the virus to facilitate perfect cell division, which is what stopping aging really is, but it probably wouldn't be able to heal being decapitated, incinerated, or anything else our protagonists can dish out to darkspawn.

 

"But there are sharlocks, you idiot!" Well, fine, you know-it-all. I prefer the term "shrieks" myself, but...

 

Yes. Yes there are. But the immortality virus the darkspawn have is the tainted one that mutated inside the magisters. Things don't "unmutate". Elves would not have regained elven immortality, but would have reacted like anything else that came into contact with the darkspawn virus. Many died, a few survived... and the women turned into broodmothers.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Immortality in DA seems to be a side effect connected to specific "songs." There is the song of the Fade, which Cole explicitly states sustains him, there is the song of lyrium (aka Titans) which has unknown effects, and there is the corrupted song which Darkspawn and Grey Wardens hear. There may also be a song connected to dragons, but there is little info on that.

The corrupted song most likely is a corruption of the Titan's song, so it likely has little to do with the Elvhen immortality. Elvhen immortality was most likely a by-product of the Fade song which they gradually lost the ability to hear due to the Veil as they became elves.

[Secret Rare]

The taint has relative analogies in its concept to the cancer which is the disease caused by an uncontrolled division of abnormal cells in a part of the body ,they both spread across the body which sick and kill the organism in the long run while giving immortality to the cancerous cells.

Darkspawn are ageless just as the cancerous cells are ageless,they are out of control just as these cells are out of control so i personally see plenty of analogies.

 

The magister's like The Architect and Corypheus are immune to the calling for an unknown reasons which surely have to do with the black city since they got infected there,but if you noticed,disciples are immune as well thanks to the mixture of GW blood and dragon blood the Architect gave them.

 

Ancient elven immortality rely on  spiritual shapes and the fade energy of the pre-veil world ,as you saw with the veil the AE(Ancient elves) have no other option than go in Uthenera in order to remain young.

[Heimdall]

I don't think so.

 

I believe that the elves were originally spirits that took on physical form when the physical realm and the Fade were not so alien to one another and that their immortality arose from this.  This also explains why elf + human = human, because spirits are malleable and mimic what is "real".

[Gervaise]

The elven immortality was definitely a direct result of their contact with the Fade and there are strong indications it is because they were originally spirits from the Fade that became more material due to their contact with the material world (like Cole).    When Solas raised the Veil the elves that had existed prior to that time were able to maintain their existence over time by entering Uthenera, since they could still draw limited sustenance from the Fade.   It is a sort of elven hibernation, so everything slows down to practically nil, which is why they age only very slowly.   Every time they wake up they age a little bit more.

 

Elves born after the raising of the Veil never had this direct connection with the Fade, so cannot sustain their lives through Uthenera.   They still have the magical signature in their blood, so I suppose in theory it could be reactivate if the Veil was raised, but I think that after so many generations away from the Fade, this has weakened sufficiently that it wouldn't work.    Another way of achieving long life immortality is by linking yourself to a spirit.    This is how Zathrian appeared to have achieved the immortality of his ancestors.    So it is possible that every elf formerly had a spirit they were twinned with and this gave them their immortality, so raising the Veil cut them off from their life giving spirit.   The text from the Evanuris warning against Fen'Harel specifically mentions that he knows much about "the People and their spirits", which could support this idea, although I may be reading too much into that text.

 

Darkspawn immortality is probably a corrupted form of this.   They draw their immortality not from the Fade but the Void.   The taint links them to this and it is the source of the arch demon's magical power (see the Last Flight), which is stated not to have its origins in the Fade and so far as game mechanics are concerned, is spiritually damaging, which makes sense if it draws its power from the Void.

[straykat]

Immortality in DA seems to be a side effect connected to specific "songs." There is the song of the Fade, which Cole explicitly states sustains him, there is the song of lyrium (aka Titans) which has unknown effects, and there is the corrupted song which Darkspawn and Grey Wardens hear. There may also be a song connected to dragons, but there is little info on that.

The corrupted song most likely is a corruption of the Titan's song, so it likely has little to do with the Elvhen immortality. Elvhen immortality was most likely a by-product of the Fade song which they gradually lost the ability to hear due to the Veil as they became elves.

 

My first thought as well. Music and/or Song seems like the key to all the "higher level" lore stuff in DA.. If there's a way to tie a theory into that, I see no problem with it. But I don't see it here personally.

[Treacherous J Slither]

The elven immortality was definitely a direct result of their contact with the Fade and there are strong indications it is because they were originally spirits from the Fade that became more material due to their contact with the material world (like Cole). When Solas raised the Veil the elves that had existed prior to that time were able to maintain their existence over time by entering Uthenera, since they could still draw limited sustenance from the Fade. It is a sort of elven hibernation, so everything slows down to practically nil, which is why they age only very slowly. Every time they wake up they age a little bit more.

Elves born after the raising of the Veil never had this direct connection with the Fade, so cannot sustain their lives through Uthenera. They still have the magical signature in their blood, so I suppose in theory it could be reactivate if the Veil was raised, but I think that after so many generations away from the Fade, this has weakened sufficiently that it wouldn't work. Another way of achieving long life immortality is by linking yourself to a spirit. This is how Zathrian appeared to have achieved the immortality of his ancestors. So it is possible that every elf formerly had a spirit they were twinned with and this gave them their immortality, so raising the Veil cut them off from their life giving spirit. The text from the Evanuris warning against Fen'Harel specifically mentions that he knows much about "the People and their spirits", which could support this idea, although I may be reading too much into that text.

Darkspawn immortality is probably a corrupted form of this. They draw their immortality not from the Fade but the Void. The taint links them to this and it is the source of the arch demon's magical power (see the Last Flight), which is stated not to have its origins in the Fade and so far as game mechanics are concerned, is spiritually damaging, which makes sense if it draws its power from the Void.

Very interesting.

What is the Void?

[Reznore57]

Very interesting.

What is the Void?

 

There's not one definition for the "Void".

In Chantry lore it is the same as the "Abyss" , it isn't a bad place per se.

It's sort of a nexus of all creation , where souls are born , and bad souls will get back to and get destroyed.

 

The Chantry also sometimes call "Void" the place where the Maker turned his gaze away and didn't create anything.

 

Some Tevinter magisters said there are void places in the Fade where there is nothing.Something between dreams...but there is a raw fade a apocalyptic landscape of darkness and not much else.It's the face of the fade when it is untouched by spirits , mortals , demons.Not sure I'd call that "the Void" the black city is still there and dark rocks and lyrium...Perhaps he was speaking about something beyond the raw fade.

But again there's ancient elven text about places deep deep in the Fade where no one else go , and I don't remember anything negative about it.

 

Then there is the elves who call some place "the Void." but it doesn't mean much imho because the elven word for "Blight " means "The Place of Nothing".

So any place blighted enough could be call "Void" in elven language , the Black city would be the "Void".The Primeval Thaig would be the "Void" (a blighted Titans ).It doesn't mean there is a special place of black hole nebula of emptiness only the elve knew of.

 

My theory is the elves are right the Blight and Void are the same thing...it is imho more a magical energy unraveling and corrupting creation than an actual place .

In Chantry lore the "Light" aka the Maker magical energy of fuzzy feeling and the Blight are the same thing , different side of the same coin.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Okay. Sounds good.

[Gervaise]

According to the story of Andruil and Mythal in the Temple, the Void was where the Forgotten Ones lived (also known by the elves as the Abyss) and where Andruil went to hunt them.     This had a really bad effect on her as each time she returned she seemed to be suffering a form of madness, from which she took longer and longer to recover.   When in this state of madness, she put on armour of the Void, made weapons of darkness and plague ate her lands.    She howled things meant to be forgotten and even the other evanuris became afraid of her, so she must have  been truly terrifying.   Only Mythal was able to break the hold over her.

 

So my guess is the Void is the antithesis of life, which is why the Forgotten Ones are said to hang out there.   The Dalish claim the Forgotten Ones were gods of spite, terror and pestilence, so either they were recounting half remembered stories of how Andruil appeared on returning from the Void, indicating that was part of the nature of the Void, or the Forgotten Ones were responsible for her condition.      The Blight and the darkspawn seem to embody spite and pestilence and create terror wherever they appear, whilst the archdemon causes immense spiritual damage with its breath so if nothing else I would say that the Blight has its origins in the Void.

 

The Chantry does say that the Void is the place where the Maker has turned away and his influence is not felt.

[Ranadiel Marius]

If the Void is where the Forgotten Ones lived then that would point to modern Thedas as being the Void since we know one of the Forgotten Ones (Geldauran) had his secret lair in the Frostback Basin.

Which does make some sense as the area near the Titans would presumably be thinner of the aspects of the Fade that the Elvhes would be used to. So it could be said to be void of the Fade.

[Evil Asch]

The Chantry does say that the Void is the place where the Maker has turned away and his influence is not felt.

 

I always kinda wondered / played with the idea that the void is contemporary Thedas. The Maker turned away from it and as a place that was forcibly divided from the Fade it would be a place of unlife / uncreation to ancient elves.

 

Edit: we also don't know for sure how the passage of time works for fade-dwellers vs. outside the fade

Сообщение изменено: Evil Asch, 12 Июнь 2016 - 09:48 .