63 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia_Nox]

Most here seems to connect dark elves with D&D and drows.

 

However even Tolkien had dark elves - the Moriquendi. Eöl and Maeglin you can read about in Silmarillion. The Moriquendi themselves were inspired by norse mythologys dökkálfar (or svartálfar). So it's definitely not "go back to play D&D" thing. That's just silly.

 

I think it would be interesting if such ancient and forgotten elven race was discovered. It seems that the dalish and city elves are both directly descended from the ancient elvhen of Arlathan. They all speak the same elven language. We don't know much about the Forgotten Ones or about the ancient war Solas mentioned at the end of Trespasser. Was this war between Forgotten Ones and the Evanuris and their followers? Different elven races fighting against each other? I think it sounds interesting.

Let's be careful though, because there is a lot of confusion in the mythology of the alfar.  The Liosalfar have a LOT more in common with elves... while the dokkalfar are very similar to dwarves - some texts say that they're all dwarves really.  

 

So... "dark" elves as people that look like other elves only with a different ethnic coloration... is a fiction of Tolkien's and then later D&D (not mythology).  

[Dabrikishaw]

The Ancient Elves already serve the same purpose.

[Inkvisiittori]

Let's be careful though, because there is a lot of confusion in the mythology of the alfar.  The Liosalfar have a LOT more in common with elves... while the dokkalfar are very similar to dwarves - some texts say that they're all dwarves really.  

 

So... "dark" elves as people that look like other elves only with a different ethnic coloration... is a fiction of Tolkien's and then later D&D (not mythology).  

 

Of course, I only mentioned norse mythology as inspiration for Tolkien.

 

The elves of today are nothing like what they were in the original different nordic mythologies. Christianity influenced the "good and evil elves" (angels and demons) and Tolkien established the "human sized, pointy eared, beautiful magical creatures" of fantasy. The original elves were seen as spirits of nature, guardians of house, etc.

 

One interesting thing I just remembered... in DAO Tamlen and Mahariel find the old elven ruin and he says something like: "Our people once lived underground?" and then there is Trespasser with all kinds of hints of elves in the Deep Roads. Could that be another possible hint of some other ancient elven race existing that we don't yet know about?

[Gilli]

Of course, I only mentioned norse mythology as inspiration for Tolkien.

 

The elves of today are nothing like what they were in the original different nordic mythologies. Christianity influenced the "good and evil elves" (angels and demons) and Tolkien established the "human sized, pointy eared, beautiful magical creatures" of fantasy. The original elves were seen as spirits of nature, guardians of house, etc.

 

One interesting thing I just remembered... in DAO Tamlen and Mahariel find the old elven ruin and he says something like: "Our people once lived underground?" and then there is Trespasser with all kinds of hints of elves in the Deep Roads. Could that be another possible hint of some other ancient elven race existing that we don't yet know about?

 

In Witch Hunt (I think it was Witch Hunt) you're once in the Deep Roads and discover that some of the Dwarves offered shelter/asyl for some Elves.

[Erstus]

Honestly, why have elves at all? Another good ol Exalted March would solve this problem...

Just sayin

[AlanC9]

Okay to be clear, when I say darker I'm NOT referring to skin colour; but behaviour and the general character traits of individuals and/or a society norm. Like I class Tevinter as a darker society than Ferelden because they allow Blood Magic, Slavery and the mistreatment of others in the same society because they are classed as the lower class. i.e. Humans and elves who are not mages or from the mage families . (and yes I know elves are treated badly in Ferelden but nowhere near as bad as Tevinter or even Orlais for that matter.)

In these terms the DA setting's already had its dark elves.

In the current era I'm not sure there's any room for this. You need power and organization for this sort of thing, and the elves don't have it.

[TK514]

Honestly, why have elves at all? Another good ol Exalted March would solve this problem...

Just sayin

Well, Solas might be just the guy to trigger it.

 

Once it gets out that an elf helped an evil Magister kill the Divine and tear a hole in reality, and then, when that plot failed, attempted to tear down the Veil and unleash the Fade on the world, killing everyone, and he had the help of a whole lot of other elves to do it?  It won't take a lot of convincing for the human nations to decide they've been far too lenient for far too long, and that "the knife-ears have to go".

[Aerebos]

Yes, because revealing that Elvnhan was no better than Tevinter at its time really does put them in a good light...

 

Also - we know that there's a faction of mysterious Elves living in Tirashan and raiding Sarault.

 

Although Tevinter and Elvenhan are comparable, they were comparable at an ancient period in time. To say elves of a certain nature once did exist shouldn't discount that elves of a certain nature can come to being or come back to being in the present.
The times have changed, are changing. The past elves who no longer exist are not relevant. People and groups change and as such Elven subgroups can come into being. If those mysterious elves do in fact follow The Forgotten Ones, then BW could expand on that and use that background IF this becomes the definition of dark elves. It would be both sensible and canonical.

 

Also I want to say that for the most part (we really don't know) that elves are assimilating to human culture in Thedas, those that aren't Dalish at least. As there can be dark elves in the sense of elven culture, there can be dark elves in the sense of human culture.

 

In the very least, why would people be against dark elves who are radical followers of The Forgotten Ones?

 

vertigomez -

Imo I can't consider 'Solas Homeboys' to be legitimate. He feels much more gray/neutral/self-serving than does the idea of a group that is committed to either light or dark.

[n7stormrunner]

we, behaviorally, already have that. their called dwarves. 

 

 

otherwise we could just have more elf bad guys without having to add more pointless labels on it.

[kimgoold]

Most here seems to connect dark elves with D&D and drows.

 

However even Tolkien had dark elves - the Moriquendi. Eöl and Maeglin you can read about in Silmarillion. The Moriquendi themselves were inspired by norse mythologys dökkálfar (or svartálfar). So it's definitely not "go back to play D&D" thing. That's just silly.

 

I think it would be interesting if such ancient and forgotten elven race was discovered. It seems that the dalish and city elves are both directly descended from the ancient elvhen of Arlathan. They all speak the same elven language. We don't know much about the Forgotten Ones or about the ancient war Solas mentioned at the end of Trespasser. Was this war between Forgotten Ones and the Evanuris and their followers? Different elven races fighting against each other? I think it sounds interesting.

 

Honestly I'd love a game just covering this! But a DA prequel on the Evanuris now that would be Incredible.

[Statare]

We also have the Ancient Dwarves/Sha-Brytol who are awfully Dark Elf like, at least to me. I kind of prefer what DA has done with the races, where there are less subdivisions (besides the human cultures, but even then) and so less stereo typification happens, although Orzammar Dwarves, Tevinter, Orlais, the Qunari and the Dalish have suffered from a fair amount as is. But characters like Valta, Dorian, and Iron Bull have subverted zealous cultural stereotypification.

 

I also think followers/servants of some of the Evanuris might prove to be more "sinister" and there is the possibility of Forgotten Ones elven or elvhen supporters. Solas actually kind of fits some types of Dark Elf, who will destroy a world to get the world he wants.

[greenbrownblue]

So just because they are dark that means they are evil? that's racist.

It's racist of you to say that associating evil with dark colour is racist.

[Cyrus Amell]

There are already two types of elves at this point. The Post-Dale Elves who constitute the vast majority of elven denizens in Thedas and who are basically regular people. These Post-Dale elves are also split into two major groups: City Elves (a name not really representative of where they live) who co-exist in human dominated societies and perhaps even those living in Qunari lands. Then there are the Dalish who are likely a small percentage of the total elven population of Thedas. They comprise clans that adhere to what they believe to be the tenets of past even civilizations including a salvaged faith and a fragmented language.  

 

The second major group would be the Arlathan Age elves who include Solas and of course the Guardians at the Temple of Mythal. Unlike the Dalish, who attempt to recreate their past glories, these elves actually survived the fall of that ancient civilization. As the setting progresses, I believe the importance of these surviving Arlathan elves will only increase. 

 

Otherwise, I do not see the point of an entirely new sub-species of elves (or whatever you would call them) needing to be shoe-horned into the setting as is. If you want elves you can consider "dark and grim" then there are already two flavors. There are the Dalish clans who operate as large bandit groups and harry trade routes winding through the forests. Then there are even elves in Tevinter who make their riches through the slave trade and basically prey on their own. Both of these groups reveal the possible mindset of a people in a fantasy world without a homeland. 

 

There are a lot of "twos" when it comes to elves aren't there?

[GoldenGail3]

You mean Skryim's Dark Elves? And no. And I like Dark Elves too. But no, this is not Skyrim despite what it appears like.