145 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

You could say the same about Jesus and his hypothetical divine sponsor.

Isn't the point of the trinity that they're the same entity?

[Iakus]

 How so? He's a space messiah. Called upon to save the galaxy. He's "special". And so many characters throughout the trilogy beat that fact over your head.

 

He's also the same age as Jesus, among many other biblical parallels

 

Not to mention he/she dies for the galaxy's sins.  And is afterwards called "The Shepard" 

[Iakus]

^ I like how by saying only Sith deal in absolutes, Obi-Wan is dealing an absolute. So Obi-Wan by his own rules is a Sith. 

"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny" -Yoda

 

  

[Iakus]

Harry Potter isn't even the hero of his own stories. Sure, he's a necessary element as a result of his Chosen One status, but almost all the actual heroic accomplishments are Hermione's.

And Sam's the true hero of Lord of the Rings.

 

The only Bearer to willingly and without the need for convincing, give up the One Ring. (in the books anyway)

[Laughing_Man]

Isn't the point of the trinity that they're the same entity?

 

...I have no idea.

[AlanC9]

I can never keep that stuff straight.

[Bizantura]

For me gaming = escapism.  I am not after any reality in games, it is about gameplay and decision making and Bioware provides that in abundance.

 

Yes, it is idiotic that Shepard in ME3 can solve all those big problems to unify an army.  All hero scripts are nonsence if translated to the real world.

I never understand why oft players ask for reality in games.

 

It is idiotic that in DAI you so fast become a hero and do all those life/world saving things with your new found little team.  The whole story line is simply not translatable to real life. In real life cannon fodder takes care of life threatening situations not the big brass.

 

I remember that The Walking dead game from telltale was out somewhat together with ME3 and a lot of players on BSN raved about it.  This is how a story is told and a game should be ect...  So I bought it.  Except for story there is no game, no impact from the player, no gameplay.  If I want a movie I watch a movie.  I found the whole thing solely emotional rubbish and it does not constitute a single thing that could lable it as a game since there is no game to be had, I agree sticktly my opinion.

 

There is definitly a market for it and who am I?  But no, I would cry if Bioware would go that route.  I am still not tired of playing the hero archetype in my RPG games and please let me meddle with every little thing that comes along thats totaly unrealistic and can't do in real life.

 

If I have any complaints it would be that a little more coherence story wise from one to the next game within a franshise would be appreciated.  But I allways survive if not.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

QMR - even if every comment you made in reply to Crutch Cricket is true, you did not relate it to what you'd like to see different in Andromeda in regards to the OPs thread. Your comments above are better served in the ME-3 forum. Would you be willing to make a constructive comment relating your dearly held views about the Geth and the Quarians as they relate to something you'd like to see handled differently in Andromeda? I'm not trying to blast you...that's not my style.

 

You, and the others talking about DA are getting way off topic here when there's no relevance mentioned to the purpose of the thread.  Please make your case for either giving NPCs more control, or why you are against it, or how you would handle it better, and offer examples that support your thesis for Andromeda.

you're not my real dad, you can't tell me what content to include or not include in my shitposts.

I already stated how I hate "muh choices",  and most of how I would change them in regard to that particular plot thread, anyway. I'd rather the characters involved are the ones making the actual decisions, even if I can influence them.

Another example, why the hell does Legion leave the Heretic decision (a massive defining moment in shaping the burgeoning geth "society") to a random human grunt with no college education who fundamentally didn't even know how geth software operated until about 5 minutes ago? Would have been much better if we could simply influence the decision it ends up making itself via how we shape our relationship toward it. Think about what happens with Aria-Petrovsky in Omega (although with much less character derailment, obviously).

Tali's trial needed work too, but that would basically require rewriting quarian lore to where ship Captains don't also serve as public defenders, and at least she does get (temporarily) pissed if you act against her. Of course, the primary problem with that particular part had less to do with the outcomes presented (keeping your friend but losing political influence vs outing them but getting to reshape the political structure in your favour) and more to do with the persuasion mechanic. The only way to get the ideal outcome should have been through making the proper decisions in regard to Reegar and Veetor and getting them to rile up the crowd, not simply shouting in red/ bluespeak and everyone simply forgetting what just happened over on the Alarei because someguy they don't even know decided to go on a rant.

 

-snip-

fun discussion, but the nice person asked me (because apparently you're a sock puppet I created just to argue with myself) to stop derailing the thread, so I'll comply

really I just can't be bothered to make another shitpost right now

 

[Lady Artifice]

 

Tali's trial needed work too, but that would basically require rewriting quarian lore to where ship Captains don't also serve as public defenders, and at least she does get (temporarily) pissed if you act against her. Of course, the primary problem with that particular part had less to do with the outcomes presented (keeping your friend but losing political influence vs outing them but getting to reshape the political structure in your favour) and more to do with the persuasion mechanic. The only way to get the ideal outcome should have been through making the proper decisions in regard to Reegar and Veetor and getting them to rile up the crowd, not simply shouting in red/ bluespeak and everyone simply forgetting what just happened over on the Alarei because someguy they don't even know decided to go on a rant.

 

 

My opinion of the persuasion mechanic isn't as generally negative as yours is, but I wholeheartedly agree about that option during Tali's trial. Watching Reegar and Veetor speak out is easily the most fun way to end that scene.

[CrimsonN7]

you're not my real dad, you can't tell me what content to include or not include in my shitposts.

I lol'd.

Wait, people want to censor your rants? Heresy. Now I have to go back and see what you did to cause this reaction. Oh QMR, don't ever change.

[CrutchCricket]

Jesus isn't associated with the underworld or purgatory. The only things that support the whole "space jesus," rhetoric is the died and come back to life thing and the way everyone looks to them in ME3.

No, but it references the same religion. I think most people just go "eh, sounds like something Jesus would do".
 

What I mean is what geth say in ME2 and do opposite in ME3. Geth accepting reaper code is opposite of what they want in ME2. yes they may change drastically but still it rubs wrong for me.
 
Shepard: "Some of the Geth followed Soverign. The heretics."
Legion: "The heretics accepted their technology. The Old Machines offered to give us our future. The Geth will achieve their own future."
Shepard: "What difference does it make how you acquire a certain technology?"
Legion: "Technology is not a straight line. There are many paths to the same end. Accepting another's path blinds you to alternatives. Nazara, Sovereign said this itself. "

The problem is, due to various idiot balls, some more literal than others the geth's self made future is no longer possible at that time. Any future is preferable to none, no?
 

Still, it is the truth from a certain point of view...
 
But yeah, the philosophies of the Jedi and the Sith are both flawed.
They should just use the Force, not ask it for guidance or let it twist them, that's where the problems start...

The Force seems to amplify the emotions and mental attributes of its users. So it's very likely that nine times out of ten, Force users don't just get a little annoyed, they get pissed. And you know what anger does. And so the first Jedi set the "don't use emotions to fuel the Force" rule. Of course, then other Jedi went "**** that, see what I can do when I'm angry?" and they later became the Sith (after ruling and interbreeding with a more barbaric culture). The rest is history.
 
Are they dogmatic to a fault? Yep. But you can see where they come from.
 

you're not my real dad, you can't tell me what content to include or not include in my shitposts.

Shitposts? I thought we were having a nice discussion.


 

Another example, why the hell does Legion leave the Heretic decision (a massive defining moment in shaping the burgeoning geth "society") to a random human grunt with no college education

Because the geth can't make up their minds. The consensus is great and all until you realize they have no innate tie breakers.
Also where is it stated that Shepard has no higher education? Ignore Earthborn background and avoidable idiot replies.
 

Tali's trial needed work too, but that would basically require rewriting quarian lore to where ship Captains don't also serve as public defenders, and at least she does get (temporarily) pissed if you act against her. Of course, the primary problem with that particular part had less to do with the outcomes presented (keeping your friend but losing political influence vs outing them but getting to reshape the political structure in your favour) and more to do with the persuasion mechanic. The only way to get the ideal outcome should have been through making the proper decisions in regard to Reegar and Veetor and getting them to rile up the crowd, not simply shouting in red/ bluespeak and everyone simply forgetting what just happened over on the Alarei because someguy they don't even know decided to go on a rant.

Nah, I like shouting at suit rats. Particularly when they're being dumb which is most of the time.
 

because apparently you're a sock puppet I created just to argue with myself

[Eryri]

Jesus isn't associated with the underworld or purgatory. The only things that support the whole "space jesus," rhetoric is the died and come back to life thing and the way everyone looks to them in ME3. 
 
People hyperbolize how much it influences the narrative like crazy around here.

According to some Christian traditions Jesus actually did descend to hell (or at least limbo) in between his crucifixion and resurrection in order to free the souls of the virtuous pre-Christians, so there is some association, albeit a little tenuous and obscure.

[Robert Cousland]

No ME3 ending is canon?

 

And yet I, a filthy Earthborn, only accept Destroy.

[Khrystyn]

 I'd rather the characters involved are the ones making the actual decisions, even if I can influence them.

 

I agree with your point to a degree, and I think this aspect (as an 'influencer' of others' decisions) will be especially needed for the PC  when they're tripping around Andromeda where they have no experience whatsoever with its history, and the conflicting issues of the region. I'm not keen to hear the PC say, effectively, "We just blew into town and because we're from the Milky Way we're going to make a few major decisions about solving your unresolved problems." Nah, they wouldn't let that happen. It will be interesting to see how plausible and momentous the PC's decisions will be, and their having the fundamental knowledge and wisdom to do so. Your idea that we might only be able to 'influence' the decisions/outcomes of various Andromedan species makes a lot of sense, and lends itself very well to the new paradigm: our role reversal. This time, we are the aliens intruding into their lives. But if my 'role play' in the new environment is that of an influential outside negotiator (not all the time, of course), then it better be a really engaging role. BTW - Sherlock Holmes 'influenced' the police detectives and constables of Scotland Yard - quite effectively, my dear Watson. 

 

When we are influencing major decisions made by aliens, where does our knowledge and wisdom come from? Does the PC say at a critical moment: "May I suggest (to you aliens) that you not build self-aware AIs? We've been there, done that, and It didn't work out so well. And yet, when Dr. Halsey tried it, Cortana went rampant - and we still love her." Or, "Here's some prothean technology we found useful."? I'm not being sarcastic; just curious about the source of our wisdom to influence Andromedans. Writing plausible Sci-fi fantasy is definitely above my pay grade, so that's why I'll have to pay BW $60+ bucks (+ DLCs) to watch alien characters make decisions that determine my destiny. How much we intervene or decide to do for or against others, it's a conundrum to balance well . Either we are "doing too much or not enough." And this is a source for endless debates regarding appropriateness and plausibility.

 

Our reacting or involvement in others' major decisions, if even just influencing them, is the on-going plan. Let's hope our interventions make the most sense (and not as a limited source of influence) at the critical moments of an alien's societal pivot-point. When a alien makes a decision that we can't influence, we'll likely takes sides to help make it happen or fight against it. I think Shepard's influence at Tali's trial made a lot of sense, and I think Shepard had the right to determine the geth heretic's destiny - they were serving the Reapers, after all. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

...I have no idea.

I can never keep that stuff straight.

I tried to piece it together, many years ago, because it didn't make sense to me.

 

After much reading, it still didn't.

[Laughing_Man]

I tried to piece it together, many years ago, because it didn't make sense to me.

 

After much reading, it still didn't.

 

Heh. Welcome to my world...

[Master Warder Z_]

and they later became the Sith (after ruling and interbreeding with a more barbaric culture). The rest is history.

 

 

Not according to the new lore, but eh I ignore that crap for the most part.

 

That said yes, the Sith became the Sith as the galaxy would know them after arriving upon Korriban and seizing command of its native population, which actually brought forth their Order's name. Sith, for that was the species that dwelt upon that rock in the cosmos, after much interbreeding and dilution of the bloodlines, the Dark Jedi and Sith became indistinguishable from each other. This also marks one of the few long term alliances between the Sith as a collective and the outside galaxy, the Sith are social darwinists, who rarely form any sort of relationship that isn't solely dominated by them but upon occasion they have found folks who embrace a philosophy similar enough to their own for mutual coexistence of predators to come into play.

 

The Mandoloarians are another notable if more recent example during the Great Sith War. A relationship that actually lasts well beyond that, instilling a sort of mutual respect between both parties for many thousands of years to come. I mean the Mandolorians have had a relatively cordial relationship with the Sith ever since and always seem to come running whenever the Sith declare war, this only changes in Palpatine's era and that has more to do with regional politics then outright dislike of the Sith Order, its just the Galactic Empire had declared Mandalore as a imperial territory was treating as such, and for the fiercely (when it suits them) independent Mandolorian clans that was intolerable.

 

Still they were off and on again allies for many conflicts before that.

[Commander Rpg]

No ME3 ending is canon?

Theorically any ending could be canon, but the retreat to Andromeda begins before Shepard can do anything.

Practically no ending will be canon, because no one in game will know what has happened in the Milky Way, nor (probably) will speak about it except to quote things not related with the endings.

 

It's a really coward and lazy move, but you've got to stick with it if you want to play this coming EAware game.

[CrutchCricket]

Not according to the new lore, but eh I ignore that crap for the most part.

And so it begins...
 
Let's just say I don't care for Mickey's New Coke Star Wars and I'm ignoring it completely and move on. I have a headache as it is, raging about this isn't gonna do me a whole lotta good right now.
 

That said yes, the Sith became the Sith as the galaxy would know them after arriving upon Korriban and seizing command of its native population, which actually brought forth their Order's name. Sith, for that was the species that dwelt upon that rock in the cosmos, after much interbreeding and dilution of the bloodlines, the Dark Jedi and Sith became indistinguishable from each other. This also marks one of the few long term alliances between the Sith as a collective and the outside galaxy, the Sith are social darwinists, who rarely form any sort of relationship that isn't solely dominated by them but upon occasion they have found folks who embrace a philosophy similar enough to their own for mutual coexistence of predators to come into play.
 
The Mandoloarians are another notable if more recent example during the Great Sith War. A relationship that actually lasts well beyond that, instilling a sort of mutual respect between both parties for many thousands of years to come. I mean the Mandolorians have had a relatively cordial relationship with the Sith ever since and always seem to come running whenever the Sith declare war, this only changes in Palpatine's era and that has more to do with regional politics then outright dislike of the Sith Order, its just the Galactic Empire had declared Mandalore as a imperial territory was treating as such, and for the fiercely (when it suits them) independent Mandolorian clans that was intolerable.
 
Still they were off and on again allies for many conflicts before that.

 I wouldn't call the Sith an "alliance". The Dark Jedi exiles ruled the **** out of the native Sith and were better than them in every way, apart from some of the more obscure Sith magic which was incorporated into Sith Sorcery. A Sith will cooperate in the short term if there is evident gain but their goal is always to conquer. Even the native Sith, savage though they were by comparison still had some nobler traits like honor, traits that eventually disappeared from their society after the exiles shaped it in their image.
 
Mandos just love a good fight, and helping the Sith tends to get them just that more often than not. They're your more traditional Proud Warrior Race.
 

It's a really coward and lazy move, but you've got to stick with it if you want to play this coming EAware game.

Actually it's the only move that allows them to go forward without shitting on the fans even more by either canonizing an ending, or blending it all together so it matters just as little. Mass Effect is over, Andromeda is just EA demanding its milk.

[Commander Rpg]

Mass Effect is over, Andromeda is just EA demanding its milk.

From what I've read, I know there are a lot of cows willing and ready to be squeezed.

[Iakus]

And a lot of other people who going to remember those cold, cold hands...

[9TailsFox]

Isn't the point of the trinity that they're the same entity?

We have holy trinity in DA:I Huge spoilers for DA:I

Spoiler

Father

Mother/holy spirit and son.

[Lady Artifice]

Isn't the point of the trinity that they're the same entity?

 

 

Yes, but what that means varies between sects.

 

The metaphor I was accustomed to as a child was an egg. Three distinct parts, one whole. 

[iM3GTR]

Harry Potter can probably out-Jesus Shepard, but even Shepard would get at least an 8/10 on the Jesus scale. (10/10 by IGN standards...)

Aslan would out-jesus both of them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Aslan would out-jesus both of them.

Well yeah, that's because Aslan is written to be an incarnation of Jesus Christ.

 

"If Aslan represented the immaterial Deity, he would be an allegorical figure. In reality however, he is an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question, 'What might Christ become like if there really were a world like Narnia and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?' This is not allegory at all." - C.S. Lewis