22 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

I was rooting around on the Wiki and came across the epilogue slides for Trespasser relating to what happens if you side with the Qunari in the main game.    I already knew that Bull betrays you but I had assumed that whilst the Qun leaders might deny involvement officially, the attack pretty much ended diplomatic relations.   However, the slides concerning the Qun state that not only do they distance themselves from the priestess's actions but they also try to maintain the alliance with the Inquisition, if now under the Divine, or with the Divine direct if it has been disbanded, to the extent that they suggest working together against Tevinter.   At this point the Divine has yet to give an answer.    So what do you think?  

 

I assume that Vivienne would reject it out of hand or at least never bother giving them an answer because of their attitude towards mages generally but who knows, may be she would favour an alliance, considering what a political animal she is.    I would have thought that Leliana also would not be in favour or Cassandra but do you think that it could be a possibility?    Or is it one of those things that is just included to make a variation and not to be taken seriously?

[Inkvisiittori]

There may be an alliance, but no trust. That was shattered thanks to what happened in Trespasser. Would be very foolish to trust the qunari after that.

 

I could see Cassandra possibly joining forces against Tevinter. She is so religious, traditional and lawful that she must just hate the Magisters, blood magic and the Black Divine. Vivienne maybe too... if she saw there was something to gain by it. Leliana, never. 

[Reznore57]

The Chantry is not going to stand with the Qunari.

It's the Inquisition who made the deal , and there was nothing about invading lands , it was mostly having the Qunari on their dreadnaught taking care of red lyrium and Venatori.

 

Tevinter believes in the Maker , yeah there's some differences and tensions between the south and north about religion , but there's no way a Divine would be ok to have people worshipping the Maker being forced to follow the Qun.

Besides , Tevinter isn't threatening to invade anyone ,no one in the South is going to be happy if the Qunari get some of the northern lands.

[vertigomez]

I love how mustache-twirlingly villainous their logic is here. "Work with us to topple the only nation actually preventing us from conquering the rest of you! Surely this will end well."

Come on, Par Vollen. You can do better than that.

[Rascoth]

Come on, Par Vollen. You can do better than that.

[Tidus]

The Qunari  seems to be wanting a war. I say wipe  those grey skin freaks off the map.

[In Exile]

Sten tells us what the Qunari think of an "alliance" or "treaties". That they decide to maintain relationships with Thedas says nothing other than that they are able to get away with it for a while longer yet. Every single Qunari we talk to tells us about their inevitable invasion. 

[RoseLawliet]

Thing is, I could see Leliana continuing to work with them. She's naively optimistic about her reforms, wanting to open all levels of the clergy to both sexes and all races (you know, despite most other races preferring their own whatever). And if she'd been romanced back in DAO, she even opens up romantic relationships. If she were a real person today, she'd be out on the streets and on twitter campaigning for everything to be inclusive of every little thing, making new words, delineating safe spaces, that sort of thing. Of course she'd want to show the Qunari that the Chantry under her enlightened leadership can work peacefully and be accepting of non-Andrastians. It wouldn't even matter that she's the most zealous of the three Divine candidates and she's the most Qun-like, possibly resorting to the assassination of her religious and political rivals to ensure that everyone eventually bows to the Orlesian Chantry. She and Cassandra are the sort of people who can somehow hold two opposing beliefs as true at the same time.

[Big I]

Thing is, I could see Leliana continuing to work with them. She's naively optimistic about her reforms, wanting to open all levels of the clergy to both sexes and all races (you know, despite most other races preferring their own whatever).

 

You mean like elves wanting their own elven clerics? Elves have believed in the Chant as long as humans have, why should't there be elven clergy? Or surface dwarves to tend to dwarves like Varric?

[Steelcan]

I love how mustache-twirlingly villainous their logic is here. "Work with us to topple the only nation actually preventing us from conquering the rest of you! Surely this will end well."

Come on, Par Vollen. You can do better than that.

it'd depend on whether individual nations considered Tevinter or the Qunari a bigger threat.  To draw on the historical example this situation emulates, many European nations were happy to deal with the Ottoman Turks while they opposed the Byzantines and later the Habsburgs.  France even allied with them to fight the Austrians and Spanish.

[vertigomez]

it'd depend on whether individual nations considered Tevinter or the Qunari a bigger threat.  To draw on the historical example this situation emulates, many European nations were happy to deal with the Ottoman Turks while they opposed the Byzantines and later the Habsburgs.  France even allied with them to fight the Austrians and Spanish.

Sure, but Tevinter's not actively invading anybody. The most offensive thing they're doing is 1) existing, and 2) selling other nations' citizens into slavery on the down low. Awful, but not about to immediately result in a war.

[Dai Grepher]

Vivienne would likely continue the alliance and simply hold her own hidden agenda. She would find a way to play the situation against the Qunari while also hurting Tevinter severely. But there is no way she would topple Tevinter before the Qunari were crushed. She is wise, and she would know that Tevinter is the last thing standing between them and war with the Qunari. Knowing Vivienne, she would respond by saying that the alliance was never in jeopardy, as she knows that the Viddasala's actions were unauthorized. No true Qunari plot could have possibly been that disorganized and and pathetic. This would send the message that she is willing to engage the Qunari, while also reminding them that the south is stronger than Tevinter. Best part is, if it was authorized, it makes them feel stupid. If not, then it's a compliment. Either way, it reflects strength.

 

Cassandra would openly reject the alliance out of hand based on the fact that Viddasala attacked at all, with or without authorization, and she would do everything she could to strengthen the south against the Qunari and their spies. No nonsense. Her focus would be on fixing the Chantry and making it stronger while also keeping Andrastian tenets. It's too bad she leaves the Council if Vivienne is Divine, but hey, more time for her to be with her man.

 

Leliana is more of a mystery. It depends on her persona. Inspired Leliana would likely try to reach out to the Qunari to prove that the south is forgiving and that there is value in working together and maintaining a peaceful coexistence. Steeled Leliana might try to make a play against the Qunari while keeping the alliance, and personally I think the Qunari would eat her alive because she's so incompetent. Confused Leliana would probably not respond, and her new Chantry would be infiltrated by Qunari everywhere.

[sniper_arrow]

Thing is, I could see Leliana continuing to work with them. She's naively optimistic about her reforms, wanting to open all levels of the clergy to both sexes and all races (you know, despite most other races preferring their own whatever). And if she'd been romanced back in DAO, she even opens up romantic relationships. If she were a real person today, she'd be out on the streets and on twitter campaigning for everything to be inclusive of every little thing, making new words, delineating safe spaces, that sort of thing. Of course she'd want to show the Qunari that the Chantry under her enlightened leadership can work peacefully and be accepting of non-Andrastians. It wouldn't even matter that she's the most zealous of the three Divine candidates and she's the most Qun-like, possibly resorting to the assassination of her religious and political rivals to ensure that everyone eventually bows to the Orlesian Chantry. She and Cassandra are the sort of people who can somehow hold two opposing beliefs as true at the same time.

 

I don't know. Even softened Leliana wouldn't be this stupid in continuing working with them after what had happened.

[Gervaise]

There might be various arguments they could use in their favour.   There are the dangerous factions that have been emerging in Tevinter in the last ten to fifteen years.   The Venatori aren't the only ones; there was that dragon cult that was defeated with the assistance of the Arishok in the comic series.    The device that Aurelian Titus was planning on using was intended to alter the minds of every person in Thedas (still can't stand these Thedas wide mass population altering plots but nevertheless it was the plan).    So out of control magic use might be something they could point to as an area they can agree on.

 

There is the emergence of red lyrium and the fact that there are still Venatori running around (probably Red Templars too) who will try and spread its use.   This was after all the reason they originally suggested the alliance.

 

There is also their knowledge of Solas' activities and what line he has been using to recruit the elves across the south.   Their agents in the alienages would have first hand knowledge of this.    If they know that Solas intends to tear down the Veil; I could see that as being potentially common ground with the south, whereas some idiot Magisters might think it a good thing, plus the means to achieve his end probably does lie somewhere in Tevinter.

 

So if they had a skilful negotiator at the very least they might persuade the south not to get involved in aiding Tevinter in the upcoming war.  

[The Baconer]

The scum are absolutely shameless, trying to act cordial with the Divine just after trying to have her killed. If the Divine has any savvy at all, she'll know their backs need to be broken. 

[RoseLawliet]

You mean like elves wanting their own elven clerics? Elves have believed in the Chant as long as humans have, why should't there be elven clergy? Or surface dwarves to tend to dwarves like Varric?

 

Do you mean Grand Clerics? If I remember correctly, they are responsible for an entire nation or region like the Free Marches. I highly doubt Andrastian elves outnumber or are equal to Andrastian humans, so it would really surprise me if Grand Clerics are ever anything other than human (especially if the Chantry wants to be representative, which means representing the actual demographics). This might change if all Andrastian elves move to, say, Orlais. Again, however, I doubt very much that the humans would move out. This would be a close election (if they are elected, and I don't know they are), potentially leaving half of the population dissatisfied.

 

And what I meant by "most" was actually that the vast majority of the members of non-human races seem to prefer their own culture and religion. Varric is an outlier (and Cassandra pointed out he'd never willingly go into a Chantry, so being a priest seems to be out of the question for him).

[Iakus]

it'd depend on whether individual nations considered Tevinter or the Qunari a bigger threat.  To draw on the historical example this situation emulates, many European nations were happy to deal with the Ottoman Turks while they opposed the Byzantines and later the Habsburgs.  France even allied with them to fight the Austrians and Spanish.

Well, the Qunari Wars were the one time the northern and southern Chantries actually cooperated.  Something even the Fourth Blight failed to accomplish.  

[vertigomez]

Do you mean Grand Clerics? If I remember correctly, they are responsible for an entire nation or region like the Free Marches. I highly doubt Andrastian elves outnumber or are equal to Andrastian humans, so it would really surprise me if Grand Clerics are ever anything other than human (especially if the Chantry wants to be representative, which means representing the actual demographics). This might change if all Andrastian elves move to, say, Orlais. Again, however, I doubt very much that the humans would move out. This would be a close election (if they are elected, and I don't know they are), potentially leaving half of the population dissatisfied.

And what I meant by "most" was actually that the vast majority of the members of non-human races seem to prefer their own culture and religion. Varric is an outlier (and Cassandra pointed out he'd never willingly go into a Chantry, so being a priest seems to be out of the question for him).

I doubt this. Most of the alienage elves we've seen have been Andrastian and so are Zevran, Fenris, and Sera. While I don't think Andrastian elves OUTNUMBER Andrastian humans (because the size of the human population is so great), percentage-wise everything points to the vast majority of non-Dalish elves believing in the Chant.

Unless you just meant that humans outnumber elves in general.

edit: So I think that even if Gland Clerics are chosen based on representation, Leliana opening things up to all races means we'll see waaaaaay more elves trying to become Mothers, Brothers, and Sisters.

[Boost32]

The scum are absolutely shameless, trying to act cordial with the Divine just after trying to have her killed. If the Divine has any savvy at all, she'll know their backs need to be broken.

That is what Vivienne say she will do, call a Exalted March on the Qun.

http://youtu.be/8oOOlotsXvI

[Reznore57]

That is what Vivienne say she will do, call a Exalted March on the Qun.

 

Off topic , damn that great music, I want to replay Trespasser now.

[Big I]

Do you mean Grand Clerics? If I remember correctly, they are responsible for an entire nation or region like the Free Marches. I highly doubt Andrastian elves outnumber or are equal to Andrastian humans, so it would really surprise me if Grand Clerics are ever anything other than human (especially if the Chantry wants to be representative, which means representing the actual demographics). This might change if all Andrastian elves move to, say, Orlais. Again, however, I doubt very much that the humans would move out. This would be a close election (if they are elected, and I don't know they are), potentially leaving half of the population dissatisfied.

 

And what I meant by "most" was actually that the vast majority of the members of non-human races seem to prefer their own culture and religion. Varric is an outlier (and Cassandra pointed out he'd never willingly go into a Chantry, so being a priest seems to be out of the question for him).

 

I mean priests and priestesses. The vast majority of elves are city elves, and almost all of them are Andrastian. It's why the City Elf origin in DA:O had an Andrastian wedding (conducted by a human priestess, because elves weren't allowed to join the Chantry). Their exclusion from the Chantry is BS, considering Andraste had an elven disciple (Shartan).

 

And it's not just Varric who's Andrastian. Among surface dwarves it's belief in the Ancestors and the Stone that's the minority, because Orzammar treats leaving for the surface as though youre renouncing your dwarfdom. The dwarven families on the surface who still follow the Stone are called kalnas, and not the majority.

[MattH]

I'd love The Divine the lead a force against the quanri, perhaps during the inevitable assault on Tevinter and beyond.

[Xerrai]

I can see at least one divine saying that they will be with the Qunari. But it will be in name only (as i'm sure the Qunari will treat it like that too).

 

If the Divine agrees to continue any alliance with the Qunari, it will be because they are using it to either stave off the invasion of the south while they prepare for the eventual war or they do it to get closer to Qunari intel and operations.

 

Of the three possible divines though, I think it would be Leliana that would choose that route--assuming she chose it at all. It may have a tactical advantage that she can play (being former spymaster and all) but it can become complicated and even harmful if that alliance became pubic knowledge.

 

Cassandra is too proud and traditional to even conceive of the notion, and Vivvienne, while tactical in her own right for the most part, likely views even an outward alliance with the Qunari more of a bane than a boon. Not to mention being what I assume would be a personal affront to her pride (bowing to the might of the Qunari? Not for her).