1580 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

I wonder if this is the Qunari's official MO? **** up and then disavow? After the next huge invasion which was only barely halted the qunari leadership was asked what their intentions are going forward now that their doom juggernaut was all wrecked "Ooooooh, no, no, no, no, you don't understand at ALL human. That was just a splinter faction! A really small one too! The Qunari are a peaceful race!"

 

Humans: Kay, cool. All is forgiven.

 

 

Yeah, it becomes a hard sell when these fringe screwjobs are basically the only representation of the Qunari's military that anyone ever encounters. 

[In Exile]

The Arishok being removed CAN be taken as proof that the action was unsanctioned. You said there wasn't any proof at all. There is some proof.

The Qunari starting a war with the Free Marches is happening now. At the end of Trespasser. The explanation was for then. That wasn't going to be the impetus or couldn't be taken as a sign of all-out-invasion-war with the rest of Thedas.

No, it cant. If it's equivocal, it's not proof. It's speculation. There isn't any proof at all. There's unsubstantiated speculation. It's as much proof as Dai Grepher's wild theories. It also is predicated on a complete misunderstanding of governance and authorization.

The disction you're drawing is meaningless.

[Almostfaceman]

No, it cant. If it's equivocal, it's not proof. It's speculation. There isn't any proof at all. There's unsubstantiated speculation. It's as much proof as Dai Grepher's wild theories. It also is predicated on a complete misunderstanding of governance and authorization.

The disction you're drawing is meaningless.

 

So meaningless that Bioware used it to explain why the Qunari weren't at war with the Free Marches after the events of Dragon Age 2. 

[Almostfaceman]

No, it cant. If it's equivocal, it's not proof. It's speculation. There isn't any proof at all. There's unsubstantiated speculation. It's as much proof as Dai Grepher's wild theories. It also is predicated on a complete misunderstanding of governance and authorization.

The disction you're drawing is meaningless.

 

Have you ever watched Sherlock Holmes? Or... any cop show? 

 

See, they do this thing. It's called finding clues. Now, one clue does not a rock-solid case make. But the clue can have meaning. The Quanri slapping the Arishok around is a clue with several valid ways to look at the clue. "Meaningless" is not a word I'd employ here. 

[Almostfaceman]

No, it cant. If it's equivocal, it's not proof. It's speculation. There isn't any proof at all. There's unsubstantiated speculation. It's as much proof as Dai Grepher's wild theories. It also is predicated on a complete misunderstanding of governance and authorization.

The disction you're drawing is meaningless.

 

So Bioware gave us a couple of clues. One, the Qunari aren't attacking the Free Marches. Two, the Arishok is in the dog house. A very valid viewpoint when looking at these clues is that the Arishok made a mess on the carpet doing a no-no. 

[Almostfaceman]

Here's the Arishok stuff Bioware brought in to explain why there wasn't a war with the Free Marches after Dragon Age 2. It's like in the first 20-something seconds.

 

[Almostfaceman]

From the video:

 

"Apparently, the Arishok didn't get permission before he attacked Kirkwall, and the Qun didn't want another Exalted March".

 

Bioware just wanted to tie up this loose story end. Like I said, people want to know about the foreshadowed Qunari attack and this explains quickly why the events of Dragon Age 2 didn't initiate that attack. 

[Nixou]

I mean, it wasn't much of a compelling debate to begin with

 

 

Not necessarily. While it was clear that the Viddasala was sent by the Triumvirate, whether the later "disavowal" was simply a matter of plausible deniability or the result of her going too far beyond what her superiors wanted is not as clear cut

 

***

 

We still don't know why they rushed a sudden invasion on the south

 

 

They stumbled upon the Eluvian network, and decided to make good use of it by launching a discreet attack against the southern elites: if the south were to become disorganized, they wouldn't be able to send help to Tevinter and the siege of Minrathous could begin anew.

 

they could have acted during the Breach when everybody was running around like headless chicken and bothered by Venatori

 

 

The Qunari rulers may be many things, but so far they haven't been shown as being stupid. They wouldn't attack during the breach for the same reason they didn't plan to attack during the fifth Blight: they knew that attacking the people fighting the Darkspawn Horde and demons popping up from the Fade would only lead them to take their place at the forefront of a war against magical horrors. Better let the southerners deal with it, perhaps send them some help and wait until the largest threat is gone for good before making a move.

 

***

 

What I think we will see in DA4 is a more agressive war between Tevinter and the Qun.And that's probably it.

 

 

Given the parallels between late-medieval Europe and Thedas, with Tevinter playing the role of Byzantium, I suspect that, just like Constantinople was eventually taken by the tech-savvy Ottoman Turks, Minrathous will eventually fall and be conquered by the tech-savvy Qunari.

 

***

 

We don't know the true force behind the Qunari. We don't know how far past Par Vollen their territory stretches.

 

 

We don't even know how large Par Vollen itself is: for all we know, the island could be as large as Orlais.

[midnight tea]

 

Not necessarily. While it was clear that the Viddasala was sent by the Triumvirate, whether the later "disavowal" was simply a matter of plausible deniability or the result of her going too far beyond what her superiors wanted is not as clear cut

 

If it was a discussion about whether Viddasala went too far at one point, it would be at least some discussion to be had. Sadly, that's not the case - at least it's not the case through most of the length of the thread. Plus, whether they disavowed her because of plausible deniability or because she went to far at some point doesn't change the fact that the Qunari would still be disavowing of a mission that they either began or supported at one point - and the objective of that mission was a clear act of aggression on the South.

[Dai Grepher]

Also, a very small unit of Qunari are able to take over Kirkwall for a day which is impressive, since they had to fight one of the largest templar forces in one location, the Circle, and the city guard to get to the throne. Most of the troops had died in the shipwreck or became Tal Vashoth. Theoretically if Hawke had died fighting the Arishok, Meredith and Orsino would have taken him down, but that's not certain. The fact that it took Hawke and the leaders of the strongest factions in the city to stop the invasion of such a small force means that the Qunari are an enemy to fear.

Not really. The Qunari had the element of surprise, and their target was a disorganized and chaotic city with many places to fall back to and hide. The templars also are not an experienced fighting force. They are used to keeping mages in line within the confines of hallways and rooms, not fighting hardened warriors on a labyrinth of city streets with various vantage points. It's the equivalent of going from playing tag in your backyard to playing laser tag in a fun-house. Even the city guard was at a disadvantage tactically, as they were not able to coordinate as well as the Qunari.

Not exactly true. The ending slide of trespasser says the Qunari return to attacking Tevinter, but escalate their attacks on Tevinter, and as Tevinter is recently unstable, they risk spreading the war elsewhere across Thedas. It wouldn't be a direct invasion of the south, but the war in Tevinter might spread.

But those were just rumors that the war might spread. It does not show that the war is spreading or that the war is happening with the South.

This is just a taste of how ludicrous your argument is, because Weekes says precisely that:

I know what Weekes said. My point is that the game says the opposite. No war has been started with the South by the end of Trespasser. Disagree with the game all you want.

As for fighting for Seheron for 300 years, there's this conversation between Iron Bull and Dorian:

Iron Bull could be biased or lying.

Anyway - we don't really know what exactly the Qunari has planned prior to the opening of the Breach, but we can estimate from Sten's conviction that he'll be among those who do the invading that, so it seems they've been preparing to invade during first half of Dragon Age or close to that.

Which would only go to prove that Dragon's Breath was unauthorized, since Dragon's Breath was contingent on eluvians that had not been discovered until 9:42 at the earliest. It could not have been part of the official Qunari plan for invasion of the South.

Add to that the fact that Bull totally thinks that the Qunari offering an alliance with Inquisition is a precursor to it. You can see how unsure he is about the whole idea and hey - he's not entirely wrong.

He was worried about their proximity. That is all. He states this if you ask him why he is nervous. Also, if he had been privy to some plan, don't you think he would have told you all about it if you help him become Tal-Vashoth?

What the Breach's done is it might have actually delayed their plans (and who knows how Blight has messed up with their plans) - so they've left the South to either succumb or deal with the problem itself, through Inquisitor. Viddassala basically tells us so, when she comments how surprised she is that after the job done Inquisitor is still left alive, instead of being rightfully removed from the picture.

No, according to Viddasala the Qunari decided the South's fate the day the Breach appeared. She was lying of course, but you are wrong about what she said. Also, the Triumvirate worked with the Inquisitor after the Breach was closed to handle other matters of dangerous magic.

So, to be clear, you're saying that a Qun loyal IB will follow a Tal Vashoth over the Inquisitor.

A blindly loyal Hissrad will follow a qunari who has even a slight chance of being official, rather than risk defying the demands of the Qun and being declared Tal-Vashoth himself. The Inquisitor is a bas. He doesn't factor into it. This was all about Hissrad's decision to blindly follow Viddasala or think for himself and consider the big picture. Solas was right about the Qunari's weakness of not thinking for themselves. Hissrad simply wasn't thinking the situation through. He was just blindly following an order from someone with horns on her head because he was afraid refusing it would make him Tal-Vashoth.

Maybe, but the initial plan means they had assets in place to take advantage of the surprise attack. We'll see how things shake out as this Qunari war begins.

Ah, so you admit this war has not yet begun.

So Bioware gave us a couple of clues. One, the Qunari aren't attacking the Free Marches. Two, the Arishok is in the dog house. A very valid viewpoint when looking at these clues is that the Arishok made a mess on the carpet doing a no-no.

You miss In Exile's rarely made good point. The Arishok being removed is not in itself evidence that he was unauthorized. You would need more evidence than that to conclude that he was unauthorized, such as his own statement that he was not authorized to attack Kirkwall, for example.

[Dai Grepher]

Not necessarily. While it was clear that the Viddasala was sent by the Triumvirate, whether the later "disavowal" was simply a matter of plausible deniability or the result of her going too far beyond what her superiors wanted is not as clear cut

How is it clear she was sent by the Triumvirate when the Triumvirate blatantly disavows her? That makes it unclear at the very least.

They stumbled upon the Eluvian network, and decided to make good use of it by launching a discreet attack against the southern elites: if the south were to become disorganized, they wouldn't be able to send help to Tevinter and the siege of Minrathous could begin anew.

I noticed that quote from Solas too, but it proves that Dragon's Breath was unauthorized. If they stumbled upon it by accident, then it means it could not have possibly been part of any official invasion plan. The Triumvirate would have set the plan up before the discovery of the eluvians, and they would not have incorporated unreliable magic mirrors into their invasion plan if they already had a way to delivery the gaatlok and troops.

Also, if they wanted the South disorganized, they would not have helped restore order first. They would have allowed chaos to weaken the South. Instead, they help defeat the Venatori and even save Denerim from being mostly burned down by the fire ship.

The Qunari rulers may be many things, but so far they haven't been shown as being stupid. They wouldn't attack during the breach for the same reason they didn't plan to attack during the fifth Blight: they knew that attacking the people fighting the Darkspawn Horde and demons popping up from the Fade would only lead them to take their place at the forefront of a war against magical horrors. Better let the southerners deal with it, perhaps send them some help and wait until the largest threat is gone for good before making a move.

Then why didn't they attack after the Breach was closed and the orb destroyed? Instead they trusted even more missions to the Inquisitor to solve.

[thesuperdarkone2]

You know someone's delusional when people spend 15 pages arguing with someone who refuses to see what the lead writer outright says.

 

 

At this point, this should be the typical reaction to arguing with Dai Grepher:

https://youtu.be/yEQtcUDNLPs?t=18s

[Blood Mage Reaver]

You know someone's delusional when people spend 15 pages arguing with someone who refuses to see what the lead writer outright says.

 

 

At this point, this should be the typical reaction to arguing with Dai Grepher:

https://youtu.be/yEQtcUDNLPs?t=18s

The tide rises, the tide falls, but the sea is changeless. There is nothing to struggle against. Victory is in the Qun.

[Dai Grepher]

You know someone's delusional when people spend 15 pages arguing with someone who refuses to see what the lead writer outright says.

He outright said that the Qunari we fought in Trespasser were not a rogue group. I never said they were a rogue group.

None of this even slightly implies that the Triumvirate was aware of Viddasala's actions or authorized her to carry out any actions against the South.

You posted the equivalent of proof that the Qunari we fought in DA2 were real Qunari to back up a baseless claim that the Arishok was authorized to attack Kirkwall.

At this point, this should be the typical reaction to arguing with Dai Grepher:

No, your reaction should be Enel's to Luffy being unaffected by lightning. You posted a quote from Weekes that does not prove your claim at all.

[Darth Spike]

You guys do know that Sten (now the Arishok) actually hinted at a possible Qunari invasion in the first game right? If he likes your HoF he tells them that if the Qunari does decide to invade he would NOT look for your character on the battlefield. Since the Qunari hate weakness in any form the would attack and try to invade again.

 

 

Most of the other countries are still fighting among themselves because of the breach and the Mage-Templar war. The fact that they almost let the world go to **** because of their infighting would do nothing but ****** off the Qunari. That and even after the whole breach incedent it would take them years to get back to full strength. A perfect time to invade and push inland as much as possible before everyone else decides to fight back and/or work together.

[Dai Grepher]

We know they want to invade again, but there is no evidence that they tried to in Trespasser.

If they were going to invade, the time would have been at the end of Inquisition, not two years afterward when the South had recovered. In fact, the best way to invade would be to have Hissrad lead the Inquisitor into a trap out in the middle of nowhere. But nothing like this was even attempted. The Triumvirate even entrusted the Inquisitor with various missions within those two years.

Par Vollen could not have possibly launched a successful invasion during Trespasser. Not only did they not have the resources to invade the entire South, but they couldn't even beat Tevinter.

Viddasala's scheme to use magic mirrors to move troops would have never been accepted by the Triumvirate. Not only would the mirrors be unreliable all around, but they lead through a hazardous maze of floating pathways. The Qunari won't abandon conventional methods for new ones that involve magic and risk. Yet there was no sign of any ships, camps, or troops in the South waiting to attack. No evidence that would lead the nobles to believe that the Triumvirate was disingenuous in their disavowal of Viddasala.

[Sifr]

How is it clear she was sent by the Triumvirate when the Triumvirate blatantly disavows her? That makes it unclear at the very least.

 

Because governments nearly always disavow knowledge of their agent's activities if they've been caught or killed during covert mission, since it gives them complete deniability that they were responsible for whatever espionage they engaged in.

 

And we see the same is true often in spy-fiction, from Bond to Bourne. I mean, every episode of Mission Impossible issues the warning, "As always, should you or any of your force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions..." right before the tape self-destructs.

 

If they were going to invade, the time would have been at the end of Inquisition, not two years afterward when the South had recovered. In fact, the best way to invade would be to have Hissrad lead the Inquisitor into a trap out in the middle of nowhere. But nothing like this was even attempted. The Triumvirate even entrusted the Inquisitor with various missions within those two years.

 

The Venatori were still a threat during the events of Inquisition, so the enemy of my enemy was in effect, especially if they made an alliance.

 

Furthermore, as long as the Inquisitor was still sealing the various Rifts that lasted long after the Breach was closed, something we know they still were doing during the interim between the end of Inquisition and Trespasser. While they feared the Anchor, for the time being, the Inquisitor being the only one who could close Rifts meant they were a necessary evil the Qunari could tolerate.

 

However, once they discovered Solas' plans all bets were off. The Qunari probably assumed like the Viddasala did that the Inquisitor was nothing more than a pawn or willing accomplice to Solas, which combined with the Anchor made it even more vital that they remove them and the threat they potentially posed.

 

The reason the Qunari might have put the brakes on that after Trespasser, is because the Inquisitor was quite literally disarmed. By removing the Anchor, it removed threat that they primarily posed.

 

Furthermore, the Inquisitor had been shown to oppose Solas by the end of Trespasser, meaning they were once again united in a sense against a common foe. While they might be irritated at the Inquisitor for thwarting the Dragon's Breathe plan, it still meant the Inquisitor could prove useful as another player in the fight against Solas, forcing him to divide his forces further.

[KaiserShep]

How is it clear she was sent by the Triumvirate when the Triumvirate blatantly disavows her? That makes it unclear at the very least.

 

 

The answer is simple: they're liars. They send the Inquisition someone who is literally named such to work with them. 

 

 

 

Then why didn't they attack after the Breach was closed and the orb destroyed? Instead they trusted even more missions to the Inquisitor to solve.

 

The notion that they trusted the Inquisition to do more all that time is just an assumption. It's not as though the logistics of their plans magically handle themselves in an instant. Also, there's a distinct possibility that assaulting Skyhold directly would not have a great chance of success. 

[Sifr]

The answer is simple: they're liars. They send the Inquisition someone who is literally named such to work with them. 

 

Backed up further by how Sten refers to the peace treaty they signed as just "a bit of a paper".

 

Whether they stopped fighting the Qunari Wars because they were losing, they wanted time to strategise or for some other inscrutable reason, we do know that the Qunari honestly don't have any intention honouring their end of the treaty and the invasion is inevitable in their mind.

 

The Qunari are very good at obfuscating the truth and their true motives, so we can never take anything they say without a grain of salt. In fact, given their tendency for philosophical koans, they'd probably consider the truth to be an dragon surrounded by blind men.

[Reznore57]

The Qunari are very good at obfuscating the truth and their true motives, so we can never take anything they say without a grain of salt. In fact, given their tendency for philosophical koans, they'd probably consider the truth to be an dragon surrounded by blind men.

 

Not sure I'd say they're good at hiding stuff.

Qunari invasion?We learn it from Qunari themselves.They pretty much tell it to your face , from a Sten to an Arishok to a spy.

The Arishok is also pretty straighforward about being unhappy in Kirkwall and some day taking actions.He just doesn't tell you why he is here , but them looking for a holy book would have been none of your concern if one of your companion wasn't directly involved in this.

 

I think the actual problem with Qunari is their honesty , it's a strange attitute to deal with people who appear level headed (not saying calm but seeing the greater picture), with whom you can have peaceful and diplomatic relationship for a while while at the same time they tell you straight they'll eventually try to beat you up in a pulp and convert you by force.And it's all part of the package , no exception is made for anyone.

[thats1evildude]

Re: why'd the qunari wait two years:

Dragon's Breath would have taken time to set up. They'd need to trap a dragon, which would not be easy, and they'd have to secure a section of the Deep Roads. Then they'd need to coordinate agents and move the gaatlok throughout Thedas. And they were probably waiting for an event like the Exalted Council at Halamshiral, where a lot of nobles would gather together.

[Al Foley]

I think its a good way to settle the debate once and for all.  Sure it was pretty obvious from the beginning.  Of course one can still have their cake and eat it too, that this was an official operation, yet the means the Vidi used to enact her will was not officially approved or recognized by the Qun or the Triumvrite.  Yet the Qunari are cagey enough to give them room for plausible deniability.  Any evidence in the DLC that this was a rogue operation was likely intentionally planted their by the Qunari.  

I think it's cool. But I support the idea that the Qun decided only to endorse this officially if she succeeded, since the Qun would have demanded that. And if she failed spectacularly they just look surprised and shrug. The Qun never demanded this. 

And that's why she tosses the spear at the end, since she's screwed either way and has nothing to loose at that point. 

They did it before after all.  I think the Qunari are quite probably the most savvy political organization in the entire game.  They know how to play their own Long Game against the people's of the south, and are quite intent to wait.  Poking, and prodding, and seeing if something eventually gives.  

[Dai Grepher]

Because governments nearly always disavow knowledge of their agent's activities if they've been caught or killed during covert mission, since it gives them complete deniability that they were responsible for whatever espionage they engaged in.

I know that. The point was, how is it clear that this was an official mission if the Triumvirate disavowed it? That makes it unclear at least.

I am making a point against those on your side claiming that their theory should be clear and obvious "fact" to everyone. At the very least they should admit that the issue isn't clear and obvious.

The Venatori were still a threat during the events of Inquisition, so the enemy of my enemy was in effect, especially if they made an alliance.

And why would the Qunari need the South to combat the Venatori? Tevinters outside of the protection of their cities? What more could a Qunari invasion force ask for?

Furthermore, as long as the Inquisitor was still sealing the various Rifts that lasted long after the Breach was closed, something we know they still were [doing] during the interim between the end of Inquisition and Trespasser. While they feared the Anchor, for the time being, the Inquisitor being the only one who could close Rifts meant they were a necessary evil the Qunari could tolerate.

Which contradicts Viddasala's claim that they Qunari decided to invade when they first saw the Breach. And besides, conquering the South would only mean the Inquisitor would be converted to the Qun. Not that they would kill him.

However, once they discovered Solas' plans all bets were off. The Qunari probably assumed like the Viddasala did that the Inquisitor was nothing more than a pawn or willing accomplice to Solas, which combined with the Anchor made it even more vital that they remove them and the threat they potentially posed.

All of which Hissrad would have disproved had the operation been official.

The reason the Qunari might have put the brakes on that after Trespasser, is because the Inquisitor was quite literally disarmed. By removing the Anchor, it removed threat that they primarily posed.

But he still has knowledge of it. That alone should have been enough to make the Qunari leadership kill him, if they ever considered him a threat. This is especially of the Inquisitor is a mage.

Furthermore, the Inquisitor had been shown to oppose Solas by the end of Trespasser, meaning they were once again united in a sense against a common foe.

Is that true? How so? Especially for an elven Inquisitor who wants to go with Solas.

While they might be irritated at the Inquisitor for thwarting the Dragon's Breathe plan, it still meant the Inquisitor could prove useful as another player in the fight against Solas, forcing him to divide his forces further.

And what makes them so sure the Inquisitor isn't Solas' unwitting puppet? Especially if he drank from the Well, or if she is romantically attached to Solas?

The answer is simple: they're liars. They send the Inquisition someone who is literally named such to work with them.

The point I was responding to claimed that this issue is clear. The fact that the Triumvirate disavowed Viddasala makes the issue unclear, whether they lied or told the truth.

The notion that they trusted the Inquisition to do more all that time is just an assumption.

No it isn't.

http://dragonage.wik..._Last_Few_Years

Thank you for the information. We've removed the Venatori informant. Ansburg should be safer for Inquisition and Ben-Hassrath agents"

"Enclosed is the location of the ruins Tallis discovered, just north of Halamshiral. The obvious magical activity suggests that inquisition forces are better equipped to determine the nature and magnitude of the threat than our people"

"While the Imperium's increased internal struggle aids both the Qunari and the Inquisition, we suggest you keep a close watch. Both sides are likely to recruit allies, and Ben-Hassrath intelligence suggests that Nevarra is already unstable."

-Excerpts from Ben-Hassrath reports

It's not as though the logistics of their plans magically handle themselves in an instant. Also, there's a distinct possibility that assaulting Skyhold directly would not have a great chance of success.

Viddasala claims Dragon's Breath was three years in the making. Taking Skyhold would be easy with enough spies.

[Dai Grepher]

...we do know that the Qunari honestly don't have any intention honouring their end of the treaty and the invasion is inevitable in their mind.

I agree. But that doesn't mean Trespasser is that invasion.

The Qunari are very good at obfuscating the truth and their true motives, so we can never take anything they say without a grain of salt. In fact, given their tendency for philosophical koans, they'd probably consider the truth to be an dragon surrounded by blind men.

It's also possible they were being honest in that case. If they truly know nothing of Viddasala's actions, they would disavow her in that case too, would they not?

Re: why'd the qunari wait two years:

Dragon's Breath would have taken time to set up. They'd need to trap a dragon, which would not be easy, and they'd have to secure a section of the Deep Roads. Then they'd need to coordinate agents and move the gaatlok throughout Thedas. And they were probably waiting for an event like the Exalted Council at Halamshiral, where a lot of nobles would gather together.

According to Viddasala, this all started the day of the Breach, which was a lie of course, but if you believe her then this should have been ready by the time Inquisition ended. The dragon could have already been captured previously. Researching a way to make gaatlok faster would be useful even if you aren't planning to bomb anyone. And even without the dragon, if the mission had been official, they could have just made more gaatlok the old fashioned way.

And why would they need to secure a section of the Deep Roads?

The agents were already in place by the end of Inquisition. And even if they weren't, it took two years to do this?

Why would they care about a few nobles gathered together if the plan hits every noble house anyway?

And why would they want to attack during the Exalted Council? Wouldn't they be better off to wait until after the council has weakened or disbanded the Inquisition?

Any evidence in the DLC that this was a rogue operation was likely intentionally planted their by the Qunari.

Then why didn't the Viddasala pass this planted subterfuge on to the Inquisition? Also, any planted evidence would require them to assume that the Inquisitor would be successful in reaching said evidence and finding it. So no, that hypothesis doesn't hold up.

They did it before after all.

When?

I think the Qunari are quite probably the most savvy political organization in the entire game. They know how to play their own Long Game against the people's of the south, and are quite intent to wait. Poking, and prodding, and seeing if something eventually gives.

A contradiction. Either they are patient and they wait, or they make a move. Not both.

[thats1evildude]

They needed lyrium to feed the saarebas. Dragon's Breath had multiple goals: take out all the southern nobility AND reinforce the Veil.

 

You know this. YOU KNOW THIS. You were in the Deep Roads, same as the rest of us.