1580 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

You guys still arguing with Dai Grepher? I think you should take a hint

[vbibbi]

You guys still arguing with DAI Grepher? I you should take a hint

But...but...

 

[thats1evildude]

I'm vaguely interested in seeing how long Dai Grepher will continue arguing.

[Dai Grepher]

They needed lyrium to feed the saarebas. Dragon's Breath had multiple goals: take out all the southern nobility AND reinforce the Veil.

Did it now? And what made the Triumvirate think that saarebas could reinforce the Veil? Also, why would the Triumvirate divide the focus of the mission like that? Shouldn't they have been focused on taking the South first before they looked into reinforcing the Veil?

You guys still arguing with DAI Grepher? I you should take a hint

Don't worry. Though they push for a losing position, vigorous debate can still sharpen the mind. And there's always the offhand chance that at least one of them will realize the truth.

[Dai Grepher]

I'm vaguely interested in seeing how long Dai Grepher will continue arguing.

By asking questions of your position and then pointing out where it contradicts what is in the game, or how absurd it is in relation to what the Qunari would logically do.

[midnight tea]

I'm vaguely interested in seeing how long Dai Grepher will continue arguing.

 

I'm out of popcorn already.

[Almostfaceman]

I'm out of popcorn already.

 

Here's some more!

 

[The Hierophant]

Dai? C'mon son...

 

[Sifr]

By asking questions of your position and then pointing out where it contradicts what is in the game, or how absurd it is in relation to what the Qunari would logically do.

 

It's not really a position as demonstrably true, especially since Weekes has already given his answer on whether it was sanctioned (it was) and what the Qunari's intentions were during the events of Trespasser (they wanted to invade).

 

I suppose it only contradicts the bizarro version of Trespasser you seem to have played, where the Qunari have never once been depicted as wanting to invade the South to bring it under their order, nor are the kind of people who have been shown to frequently engage in espionage, infiltration, and occasional assassination of their enemies.

 

I'm sure between the Kirkwall Chantry explosion, the Mage Rebellion, the Templars going rogue, Orlais having a Civil War and the Breach, everything seems to be going absolutely swimmingly down there. The Qunari definitely have never been depicted as the type of control freaks who might seek to step in and subjugate somewhere when the chaos has becomes utterly intolerable for them.

 

If the situation in Kirkwall was enough to do the nut in of the Arishok to the point he'd disobey orders and attempt to impose the Qun's order on the city, it's not a leap to imagine that the Triumvirate might look at all the insanity that's befallen the south in the last decade and consider doing the same.

 

Based on WOT2 about the selection process, it could be that one of the criteria for why they picked the previous Arishok was because he would have been perfect to lead an invasion, but they didn't count on him being so gung-ho and overzealous, he might decide to jump the gun before they were ready. Which is why they were forced to chose a successor who has the necessary ferocity in combat, but has shown far more restraint and better judgment outside of it, such as Sten (potentially).

[Dai Grepher]

The bottom line of this topic is that nothing Weekes said implies that the Triumvirate was aware of Dragon's Breath or authorized it. The Qunari in Trespasser can be real Qunari without being authorized.

I gave Weekes' exact statement to a friend of mine who has not played Inquisition or Trespasser. The Qunari we fought were not a rogue group. I asked him if that statement meant that the Qunari leadership authorized those Qunari to attack the South. He said no, it doesn't.

The reason is because he and other rational, unbiased people understand words for what they mean and do not project their own wants onto other people's statements.

[Dai Grepher]

It's not really a position as demonstrably true, especially since Weekes has already given his answer on whether it was sanctioned (it was) and what the Qunari's intentions were during the events of Trespasser (they wanted to invade).

Except he never said it was sanctioned, nor did he use the word invasion. This is all your imagination, with all due respect.

This is what I mean by projecting wants onto other people's statements.

I suppose it only contradicts the bizarro version of Trespasser you seem to have played

As I've written time and again, Weekes' statements do not contradict my position at all. You are simply incorrect about what he said.

If the situation in Kirkwall was enough to do the nut in of the Arishok to the point he'd disobey orders and attempt to impose the Qun's order on the city, it's not a leap to imagine that the Triumvirate might look at all the insanity that's befallen the south in the last decade and consider doing the same.

And yet you consider it beyond the realm of possibility that this mindset applied to Viddasala alone.

I never said the Triumvirate didn't want to invade the South one day, just that all evidence in Trespasser proves that they didn't want to invade at that time, and nothing Weekes said contradicts this.

Based on WOT2 about the selection process, it could be that one of the criteria for why they picked the previous Arishok was because he would have been perfect to lead an invasion, but they didn't count on him being so gung-ho and overzealous, he might decide to jump the gun before they were ready. Which is why they were forced to chose a successor who has the necessary ferocity in combat, but has shown far more restraint and better judgment outside of it, such as Sten (potentially).

That only proves that they are capable of choosing poorly, such as they did with the equally overzealous Viddasala.

[midnight tea]

Dai? C'mon son...

 

Spoiler

 

... I'm afraid the response will be:

 

[Dai Grepher]

It's funny that you guys keep carrying on as if I'm the one who is wrong, but Weekes only said we fought real Qunari in Trespasser. He never said Viddasala didn't go rogue, and he never said the Triumvirate authorized Dragon's Breath. You have no evidence.

[Almostfaceman]

Except he never said it was sanctioned, nor did he use the word invasion. This is all your imagination, with all due respect.

 

 

Riight, Weeke's explanation as to why a Qun Iron Bull would care about the invasion have nothing to do with whether or not it was a sanctioned, official invasion by his bosses instead of some group he wouldn't give two spits about. [/sarcasm]

 

[thesuperdarkone2]

It's funny that you guys keep carrying on as if I'm the one who is wrong, but Weekes only said we fought real Qunari in Trespasser. He never said Viddasala didn't go rogue, and he never said the Triumvirate authorized Dragon's Breath. You have no evidence.

So who do you think Weekes would side with in this argument?

[Sifr]

Except he never said it was sanctioned, nor did he use the word invasion. This is all your imagination, with all due respect.

This is what I mean by projecting wants onto other people's statements.

As I've written time and again, Weekes' statements do not contradict my position at all. You are simply incorrect about what he said.

 

"We kicked around ideas, maybe it's a rogue faction of the Qunari and maybe they aren't really the "real" Qunari and Bull doesn't believe in them. And every time we tried... we tried to talk ourselves into it for a while, like "Oh Bull wouldn't do this, they're not the real Qunari, they're an offshoot".

 

And it just got so toothless.

 

It got to a point where we were like no, really, who wants to play a game where you're playing an offshoot of the offshoot of the offshoot? We own this! The Qunari aren't being used anywhere but in our games so if we're going to say the Qunari are going to start a war, lets have the Qunari start a war and let's own that."

 

--Patrick Weekes - Biofan interview

 

Arguing that the Viddasala went rogue and the Triumivirate didn't approve of Dragon's Breath, nor intended to start a war is precisely why Weekes called that conceit as being completely "toothless" . It'd have been an easy way to play it safe when it comes to the direction they wanted to take the Qunari in, which is why the writers didn't go for it, instead preferring to have the Qunari intentionally seek to start a war.

 

So, you were saying we all got the wrong end of the stick?

[lynroy]

Here we go again.

[midnight tea]

It's funny that you guys keep carrying on as if I'm the one who is wrong, but Weekes only said we fought real Qunari in Trespasser. He never said Viddasala didn't go rogue, and he never said the Triumvirate authorized Dragon's Breath. You have no evidence.

 

This is insane. Even frikking Viddassala says at the end of Trespasser that since "the gentle path" has failed the Qunari will now go the way of blades, that is: full-blown invasion, because I don't think you're ridiculous enough to think that she only refers to her already decimated division? (oh who am I kidding...)

 

Such rogue, that Viddassala! Apparently working without the authorization of her superiors, but knowing exactly what they'd do in case she fails...

[Addictress]

DAI Gepher, for a while until recently, I viewed the end of the game like you did. I thought the Viddasala was a rogue agent - of course, a "true Qunari" and Iron Bull was following her because she might've initially been sent out with a legit mission from the Qun, from the homeland. Then, she simply 'went too far' on her own, in the course of her mission, while she was in the south, and strayed from the Qunari homeland. The Qunari homeland then said she went too far and distanced themselves officially.

 

However, I myself changed my position when I examined 1) the Patrick Weeked interview with Biofan. Read his comment again in Sifr's post above. 2) the wording used in the epilogue slide, in which they have the word "disavowed." Just think of the diction here. That word has a certain connotation.

[Gold Dragon]

So who do you think Weekes would side with in this argument?

 

Neither.  He's far too busy laughing.

[The Hierophant]

Dai? C'mon son...

 

 

... I'm afraid the response will be:

 

Prophetic.

 

[midnight tea]

Prophetic.

 

Nostradamus ain't got nothing on me.

[robertthebard]

It's funny that you guys keep carrying on as if I'm the one who is wrong, but Weekes only said we fought real Qunari in Trespasser. He never said Viddasala didn't go rogue, and he never said the Triumvirate authorized Dragon's Breath. You have no evidence.

A Qunari that goes rogue is Tal Vashoth, thus, not real Qunari. A Qun loyal IB will turn on the Inquisitor on her orders, thus, she's not Tal Vashoth. This is really pretty simple, unless you've decided that nothing presented about the Qunari fits with what you want them to be, which is what we're facing here. You have decided what happened, to the point of telling the Lead Writer that he doesn't know what he's talking about. If I have to choose between what Weekes has told us, and what you're trying to feed us, I'm choosing Weekes every time. It is amusing to watch you thrash about though, do continue.

[thesuperdarkone2]

A Qunari that goes rogue is Tal Vashoth, thus, not real Qunari. A Qun loyal IB will turn on the Inquisitor on her orders, thus, she's not Tal Vashoth. This is really pretty simple, unless you've decided that nothing presented about the Qunari fits with what you want them to be, which is what we're facing here. You have decided what happened, to the point of telling the Lead Writer that he doesn't know what he's talking about. If I have to choose between what Weekes has told us, and what you're trying to feed us, I'm choosing Weekes every time. It is amusing to watch you thrash about though, do continue.

You have to realize this is the same person who literally wrote this:

 

 

Neither. My post is irrefutable.
 

 

 

Before you ask, yes, he was completely serious in a thread called "Templars are narritively better for every reason"

[SweetTeaholic]

I'm so glad I gave up arguing over this threat being I'm no longer angry. Now I'm just laughing how stupid this whole argument is.

 

Weekes made it clear that the Viddasala wasn't rouge and if Dragons Breath when though  the Qunari would have stormed the South. If you don't believe the Word of God; then so be it. There's no point in arguing about anymore about this.

 

Now can we all shut up about this?