1580 réponses à ce sujet

[thats1evildude]

I can buy the Arishok trying to seize Kirkwall without the approval of the other qunari. He's one-third of the Triuumverate and he had sanction to do what was necessary to recover the Tome of Koslun.

What we saw in DA2 was his slow descent into insanity as his mission failed to turn up results and he was forced to deal with the constant attempts to provoke him into qttacking Kirkwall. (Which eventually worked, though not in the way Petrice and her conspirators would have liked.)

What I have trouble is this lesser officer somehow fooling everyone under her command to join her in this massive conspiracy and somehow escaping the notice of the remaining qunari. That stretches disbelief. That requires ultra-competence on the part of one minor character and absolute incompetence on the part of everyone else.

As for the qunari using dangerous magic, the qunari are willing to bend their own rules whenever it suits their needs.

"Women aren't allowed to fight."
"But we have this woman who fights really well."
"Oh, let's classify her as a man, then."

[Dai Grepher]

Right, absolutely no evidence.

Iron Bull states in the meeting with Jerran that Viddasala's role is finding, studying, and stopping magic.

That's fair. I don't recall it.

I think it's after you return to Halamshiral from the mines. It is said in the tavern at some point where he sits.

Right, no evidence.

http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Arigena

Spoiler

She represents the embodiment of the industrial, agricultural and mercantile aspect of the Qunari government, having oversight over what the Qunari believe to be the 'mind' of their society. The Arigena is always a female.[1]

The merchants and craftsmen are charged with the construction of all necessities for the Qunari such as weapons, building materials or food, and with its fair distribution amongst the believers of the Qun.

Iron Bull also states in the basement of the elvhen ruins that he can't believe the Arigena would let that much gaatlok out of Par Vollen.

Printing money is the role of the government, but that doesn't mean it has to happen in a particular location.

But the Arigena is in Par Vollen.

That logic doesn't work: see Tallis, the Antaam, and "fighting" as a role.

She doesn't fight as a warrior. That was explained by the writers in a different thread. Manufacturing gaatlok is more specific though. Viddasala was making it, and using the dragon's venom to make it rapidly and secretly. She was also using inexperienced agents to make it, as indicated by her orders posted in the factory.

That is literally not what you said.

Except that it is. I was replying to Sifr's post, which questioned if Viddasala could pull off a covert operation without the Triumvirate finding out about it. I proved that it was possible.

Look, I don't have the energy for this debate. I'm just pointing out that it's the whole debate is whether "Viddasala was authorized to attack the South".

Yes, that is the bottom line of this debate. I never indicated otherwise.

Once you grant that, there's no debate. By definition, if you grant that she was authorized to attack the South, the Qunari knew about it. Why? Because they authorized her to attack the south.

Yeah, so what are you talking about? My position is that she was not authorized and was keeping her actions secret from the Triumvirate.

If your issue is with the Qunari under her knowing about it, that was explained a while back. Those Qunari simply assumed the operation was authorized, and saw no need to verify it with anyone above or lateral to Viddasala. Most of her agents were likely kept in the dark, and simply followed whatever orders she gave them.

[Dai Grepher]

Yes, but Qunari will use magic if it means that they can destroy it. This is the precise reason why they were in Vir Dirthara initially - to research how to strengthen the Veil.

This is why Viddasala was in the Vir Dirthara, but her authorization is in question. You can't use her as an example.
 

I can buy the Arishok trying to seize Kirkwall without the approval of the other qunari. He's one-third of the Triuumverate and he had sanction to do what was necessary to recover the Tome of Koslun.

Nice opinion you have there, but the Ariqun and Arigena disavowed him publicly.
 

What I have trouble is this lesser officer somehow fooling everyone under her command to join her in this massive conspiracy and somehow escaping the notice of the remaining qunari. That stretches disbelief. That requires ultra-competence on the part of one minor character and absolute incompetence on the part of everyone else.

So it's impossible because you can't comprehend it?

She was tasked with finding magic and stopping it. She stumbled upon the eluvians, as Solas said. She researched things in the Vir Dirthara and got it into her head to train the saarebas to use "Veil magic" to hold back the Fade. She was tampering with forces she didn't even understand. She had her agents bring various artifacts back to the Darvaarad. The Gatekeeper inquired as to the locations of these artifacts, to which the agents gave improper information. This shows that Viddasala was hiding information from her own people.

At some point she found out that Solas gave Fen'Harel's orb to Corypheus, and this is where her little idea to attack the South began. She assumed the Inquisition was working for Solas who "founded" the Inquisition, in her mind. Hence the plot against the Inquisition and the South for not curbing the Inquisitor's magic.

She needed gaatlok. The Arigena gave her a moderate amount to destroy magical artifacts as she's supposed to. Viddasala requested more, because she secretly wanted to blow up courts in the South. The Arigena said, "No".

So Viddasala needed a new way to make gaatlok. She began making gaatlok in the Darvaarad, which she has control over. At some point she discovered that a poison dragon's venom allowed for faster production of gaatlok. So she sent some Qunari to capture this dragon and hold it at the daarvarad. Production increased drastically, and she started storing the gaatlok at the elvhen ruins and using it to mine lyrium.

Viddasala told her viddathari agents in the Inquisition to prepare for the attack. Those spies let it slip in front of Solas' spies. When Dragon's Breath was ready to begin, Solas made his move. He killed many Qunari and let one escape through the eluvian to Halamshiral. He told his agent to alert Leliana to the Qunari body.

And that's where we get involved. Simple.
 

As for the qunari using dangerous magic, the qunari are willing to bend their own rules whenever it suits their needs.

They are willing to use saarebas. Not magical artifacts. All of their attacks against Tevinter have relied on technology, with some saarebas being used in certain cases.
 

"Women aren't allowed to fight."
"But we have this woman who fights really well."
"Oh, let's classify her as a man, then."

No. They do not fight. They defend themselves. That is the distinction the Qunari use.

[sniper_arrow]

Iron Bull states in the meeting with Jerran that Viddasala's role is finding, studying, and stopping magic.


I think it's after you return to Halamshiral from the mines. It is said in the tavern at some point where he sits.


http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Arigena

Spoiler

She represents the embodiment of the industrial, agricultural and mercantile aspect of the Qunari government, having oversight over what the Qunari believe to be the 'mind' of their society. The Arigena is always a female.[1]

The merchants and craftsmen are charged with the construction of all necessities for the Qunari such as weapons, building materials or food, and with its fair distribution amongst the believers of the Qun.

Iron Bull also states in the basement of the elvhen ruins that he can't believe the Arigena would let that much gaatlok out of Par Vollen.


But the Arigena is in Par Vollen.


She doesn't fight as a warrior. That was explained by the writers in a different thread. Manufacturing gaatlok is more specific though. Viddasala was making it, and using the dragon's venom to make it rapidly and secretly. She was also using inexperienced agents to make it, as indicated by her orders posted in the factory.


Except that it is. I was replying to Sifr's post, which questioned if Viddasala could pull off a covert operation without the Triumvirate finding out about it. I proved that it was possible.


Yes, that is the bottom line of this debate. I never indicated otherwise.


Yeah, so what are you talking about? My position is that she was not authorized and was keeping her actions secret from the Triumvirate.

If your issue is with the Qunari under her knowing about it, that was explained a while back. Those Qunari simply assumed the operation was authorized, and saw no need to verify it with anyone above or lateral to Viddasala. Most of her agents were likely kept in the dark, and simply followed whatever orders she gave them.

 

How about asking Weekes about the entire issue? At this point, it's rather becoming sad than amusing. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

How about asking Weekes about the entire issue? At this point, it's rather becoming sad than amusing. 

At this point, Weekes could straight up say Dai Grepher is wrong on all counts and he'd still be in denial about it. Remember, this is the same guy who said his opinion is irrefutable fact.

[SandiKay0]

As soon as I realized he was arguing his head cannon I laughed at myself and bowed out of the argument. I didn't play the same game he did.

[Andreas Amell]

Maybe it's a good thing they don't bring back the Hero of Ferelden. I'd hate to see the conversation he/she would have with the current Arishok, a fellow Veteran of the 5th Blight.

[Sifr]

It's not an intricate conspiracy theory. It is what the game presents. You are just trying to write it off as a conspiracy theory because you can't refute it.

You are projecting your own ideas onto Weekes' statements.

Resorting to insults, like others on your side have done. The clear mark of one who has lost the debate.

 

I think that 22 pages worth of rebuttals that point out the flaws in your argument, the convoluted explanations you have tried to give when the explanation is decidedly simpler and something Weekes' own words seems to back up more, as well as constantly accusing anyone who disagrees with your ideas as "projecting", is more than enough evidence to who has more clearly lost the debate.

 

The simplest explanation is that this was a sanctioned plot by the Qunari, that was part of their opening move on the South and was disavowed when the plot was discovered to cover their own backsides. Weekes said the real Qunari wanted to start a war and this was not a rogue offshoot, as well as that the writers decided not to use that as their "get out of jail free card" because it felt disingenuous.

 

Saying that this was an unauthorised plot by hundreds of Qunari operating under a rogue leader runs totally counter to that. It's requires us create a tangled web in order to explain her actions in a way that even sounds plausible, such as how she alone was able to pull of this entire operation without her bosses catching wind, as well as betraying the writer's intention this would not be a rogue offshoot.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy debating theories, character motivations and plot events when they cannot be proven one way or another... but as far as it comes to what the Viddasala was doing, this one has been put to rest by Weekes himself, hasn't it?

 

Comparatively, the idea that these were "real Qunari intending to start a war" is the most simple explanation in the end, and (as most often) probably amounts to being the correct one.

[sniper_arrow]

At this point, Weekes could straight up say Dai Grepher is wrong on all counts and he'd still be in denial about it. Remember, this is the same guy who said his opinion is irrefutable fact.

 

True. But I think he may need to move on until we get more information for his own sake....unless he begins to theorize Viddasala as Azor Ahai or the Qunari that was promised. 

[midnight tea]

True. But I think he may need to move on until we get more information for his own sake....unless he begins to theorize Viddasala as Azor Ahai or the Qunari that was promised. 

 

Well, if people could theorize that Sera is Andruil or Solas is both Fen'Harel AND Dalon'Din AND Dirthamen at the same time...

[Dai Grepher]

@sniper_arrow I have no method of contacting him.

At this point, Weekes could straight up say Dai Grepher is wrong on all counts and he'd still be in denial about it. Remember, this is the same guy who said his opinion is irrefutable fact.

No I wouldn't, and no I didn't.

As soon as I realized he was arguing his head cannon I laughed at myself and bowed out of the argument.

You demanded proof of my claim about Hissrad's letters being intercepted. I posted the evidence above, straight from the game. Now that you see the facts you are trying to dismiss them as my own ideas. They are not. They are canon facts.

I didn't play the same game he did.

In this you might be technically correct. I had the Qunari alliance. You may not have. Thus your reply letter would have been worded differently, and Iron Bull would not have been sending any letters to the Ben-Hassrath. Still, the alliance worldstate proves that Hissrad's letters were being intercepted.

Maybe it's a good thing they don't bring back the Hero of Ferelden. I'd hate to see the conversation he/she would have with the current Arishok, a fellow Veteran of the 5th Blight.

I doubt it would be noteworthy. Few but the Hero King/Queen of Ferelden would even know about the Viddasala's plot. And if the Hero's spouse accepted the explanation, the Hero should as well. In the event the Hero does not accept it, Arishok would simply tell the Hero that the Viddasala was not authorized to attack the South. The Hero would either believe him or not, but would not be able to do anything about it. The Hero wasn't in the South when it happened.

I think that 22 pages worth of rebuttals that point out the flaws in your argument, the convoluted explanations you have tried to give when the explanation is decidedly simpler and something Weekes' own words seems to back up more, as well as constantly accusing anyone who disagrees with your ideas as "projecting", is more than enough evidence to who has more clearly lost the debate.

It's fine to offer rebuttals, but when I reply back with facts from the game, or explanations as to why Viddasala acting on her own is possible, and then your side replies with insults or just personal disagreement, then I think that shows that your side lost the debate.

For example, SandiKay0 asked for proof that Hissrad sent letters to his superiors in the Ben-Hassrath and that Viddasala was intercepting them. I posted proof of this, which is only shown if you had the Qunari alliance and Hissrad remained Qunari. She probably didn't accept the alliance, so she never received the information I received. What was her reply when I posted this evidence? That I was posting "headcanon".

Another example. You suggested that it is convoluted to think that Viddasala could act outside the Qun without someone under her questioning her or reporting her to someone in a position to stop her. Yet I posted proof that she was acting outside the Qun in various other ways, all without being stopped by someone above her or lateral to her. I also posted proof that some under her questioned her actions. She wrote a letter in the Vir Dirthara to convince the viddathari that their efforts in the Crossroads were necessary. Jerran also questioned, and he knew Viddasala was acting outside the Qun. She had him killed. Viddasala was also manufacturing her own gaatlok at the Darvaarad, and using inexperienced spies to make it, which is a blatant violation of the Qun, as only the Arigena branch is authorized to make gaatlok. She also brought red lyrium in to Qunari lands. Which the Triumvirate sent a dreadnought and allied with the Inquisition to prevent. They did not want red lyrium spreading beyond the South. They made that clear. They put 102 Qunari lives on the line to prevent it. Yet at no time was she stopped or even ordered to realign with the demands of the Qun.

That is all proof straight from the game, and it proves that she was able to act without authorization in various other ways. Which means it's possible that the attack on the South was also her idea alone and that she was hiding that from the Triumvirate as well.

The simplest explanation is that this was a sanctioned plot by the Qunari, that was part of their opening move on the South and was disavowed when the plot was discovered to cover their own backsides.

What is the correct explanation? All the evidence in the game proves that it was not authorized.

As for simple, I don't think your explanation is the most simplistic. For the Triumvirate to authorize Dragon's Breath, they would need the forces to take and hold the South. They didn't have these forces. They also had Tevinter standing against every assault they would launch. The Qunari could not afford to spread their forces so thin across the entire South. It would leave Par Vollen open to attack, and war would rage across the entire South, depleting Par Vollen's resources entirely. Your explanation requires incredible suspension of disbelief.

Truly, the simplest explanation is that the Triumvirate said they had no knowledge of Viddasala's actions, and thus this is the truth. You would have us believe that this is just subterfuge meant to cover up their involvement, but does this not add complexity to your stance?

Weekes said the real Qunari wanted to start a war and this was not a rogue offshoot, as well as that the writers decided not to use that as their "get out of jail free card" because it felt disingenuous.

The Qunari we fought in Trespasser were real Qunari, and they did want to start a war. That is not the same as being authorized to do so.

Right, so they used the "not authorized" and "disavow" explanation as their "get out of jail free card".

Saying that this was an unauthorised plot by hundreds of Qunari operating under a rogue leader runs totally counter to that. It's requires us create a tangled web in order to explain her actions in a way that even sounds plausible, such as how she alone was able to pull of this entire operation without her bosses catching wind, as well as betraying the writer's intention this would not be a rogue offshoot.

No it doesn't. You are claiming that it runs totally counter to Weekes' statement because you prefer to believe that it was authorized. You aren't looking at the situation without bias. Me, I don't care one way or the other if it was authorized or not. I'm just going by the facts, and the facts indicate that it wasn't authorized.

I explained why your objections are invalid. The "tangled web" of Viddasala deceiving Qunari above, lateral, and beneath her is fact regardless of whether you want to believe Dragon's Breath was authorized or not. I proved this with the various other examples of her violating the demands of the Qun.

By the same token, if her hiding Dragon's Breath makes her an offshoot, then violation the Qun in all those other ways makes her an offshoot as well. But it doesn't. Acting without authorization does not make her an offshoot or a rogue. It makes her an official who is acting without authorization, and is trying to spread the Qun in her own way. This only designates her as being in need of re-education, as we have seen be the case with other Qunari in the series who have acted without authorization. You and others are just trying to misapply Weekes' comment to the concept that Viddasala was acting without authorization because your prefer to see it that way. In reality, what Weekes said is consistent with Viddasala acting on her own goals.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy debating theories, character motivations and plot events when they cannot be proven one way or another... but as far as it comes to what the Viddasala was doing, this one has been put to rest by Weekes himself, hasn't it?

No, because he did not say Viddasala was authorized. He did not say the Triumvirate knew of the plot against the South and did nothing to stop it. He said nothing even approaching this.

Comparatively, the idea that these were "real Qunari intending to start a war" is the most simple explanation in the end, and (as most often) probably amounts to being the correct one.

As I wrote, that is consistent with Viddasala acting on her own motives without authorization from her superiors. What you are stating here does not disprove me.

[SandiKay0]

No I claimed head cannon because you claimed you had proof that she intercepted Hissards letters. You speculated. There isn't proof. She's one of three priestesses of the Ben Hassrath. She isn't in his chain of command. She deals in dangerous things, the saarabas volunteered.

[Giantdeathrobot]

 

 

Comparatively, the idea that these were "real Qunari intending to start a war" is the most simple explanation in the end, and (as most often) probably amounts to being the correct one.

 

Not to mention the most interesting. We've had enough rogue agents and splinter factions that throw easily disposable cannon fodder at us. Time for the Qunari to show they have teeth; that Sten's threats were real, that IB's apprehensions were founded, that the Arishok was mere foreshadowing of what is to come. I want the Qun to be a aggressive and militant, not grouse in the corner and send some splinter factions at us from time to time so we can kill oxmen to take a break from killing humans.

[Sifr]

You and others are just trying to misapply Weekes' comment to the concept that Viddasala was acting without authorization because your prefer to see it that way. In reality, what Weekes said is consistent with Viddasala acting on her own goals.

 

While individual bias can influence how people perceive things, the reason why some theories are accepted and others rejected is because you have people take a hypothesis, look at the evidence and see how well the two match. The reason that the majority consensus is usually (but not always) right, is because when you have that many people separately come to the same conclusion based on the available data, it becomes a lot harder to disprove. And it's not like people don't try, a lot of scientists do that for a living, testing hypotheses to see how well they hold up to further, more intense scrutiny.

 

So taking this without bias and going strictly by what Weekes said about the events of Trespasser;

 

He used the words "Real Qunari" when talking about the main faction we face. He stopped to clarify that despite considering it, the writers decided that having them be an offshoot that went rogue would be "toothless" on the their part so they nixed it. Finally, he clarified the intention in Trespasser from the writers was that they wanted the Qunari to deliberately start a war.

 

I really don't see how the majority of people can be taking him that much out of context, as well as have all somehow come to the same erroneous conclusion because they "prefer" it that way?  When you look at what he says and how he explains it, the whole thing seems pretty cut and dry?

 

[Almostfaceman]

While individual bias can influence how people perceive things, the reason why some theories are accepted and others rejected is because you have people take a hypothesis, look at the evidence and see how well the two match. The reason that the majority consensus is usually (but not always) right, is because when you have that many people separately come to the same conclusion based on the available data, it becomes a lot harder to disprove. And it's not like people don't try, a lot of scientists do that for a living, testing hypotheses to see how well they hold up to further, more intense scrutiny.

 

So taking this without bias and going strictly by what Weekes said about the events of Trespasser;

 

He used the words "Real Qunari" when talking about the main faction we face. He stopped to clarify that despite considering it, the writers decided that having them be an offshoot that went rogue would be "toothless" on the their part so they nixed it. Finally, he clarified the intention in Trespasser from the writers was that they wanted the Qunari to deliberately start a war.

 

I really don't see how the majority of people can be taking him that much out of context, as well as have all somehow come to the same erroneous conclusion because they "prefer" it that way?  When you look at what he says and how he explains it, the whole thing seems pretty cut and dry?

 

 

Yup, it's completely clear what Weekes said and no amount of anyone trying to muddy the waters really changes that. The Qunari are going to war and Trespasser was the start of that. No rogue elements involved. This is what Sten warned us about in Dragon Age Origins. 

[Dai Grepher]

No I claimed head cannon because you claimed you had proof that she intercepted Hissards letters. You speculated. There isn't proof. She's one of three priestesses of the Ben Hassrath. She isn't in his chain of command. She deals in dangerous things, the saarabas volunteered.

"On behalf of the Inquisition, I must humbly inquire as to the hostile actions of your agents in Halamshiral. The Iron Bull has consulted his immediate superiors and contacts within the Ben-Hassrath to no avail."

Not to mention the most interesting. We've had enough rogue agents and splinter factions that throw easily disposable cannon fodder at us. Time for the Qunari to show they have teeth; that Sten's threats were real, that IB's apprehensions were founded, that the Arishok was mere foreshadowing of what is to come.

Well then where are they?

I want the Qun to be a aggressive and militant, not grouse in the corner and send some splinter factions at us from time to time so we can kill oxmen to take a break from killing humans.

Yeah, you want. You are projecting your wants onto the Qunari in Trespasser. I want to fight the Qunari in an official capacity as well, but what I want does not dictate the facts of the game. Those were real Qunari, but they were led by one who was not authorized in her actions.

While individual bias can influence how people perceive things, the reason why some theories are accepted and others rejected is because you have people take a hypothesis, look at the evidence and see how well the two match. The reason that the majority consensus is usually (but not always) right, is because when you have that many people separately come to the same conclusion based on the available data, it becomes a lot harder to disprove.

Consensus does not make something harder to prove or disprove. Facts determine this. I understand the value of multiple perspectives, but in the case of this issue, most of those replying in favor of Viddasala being authorized are looking at this with personal bias.

So taking this without bias and going strictly by what Weekes said about the events of Trespasser;
 
He used the words "Real Qunari" when talking about the main faction we face. He stopped to clarify that despite considering it, the writers decided that having them be an offshoot that went rogue would be "toothless" on the their part so they nixed it.

Right, and as I wrote to you, this all boils down to what he means by "offshoot" or "rogue" group. I think he is talking about Vashoth or Tal-Vashoth, which the Trespasser Qunari were not. Those Qunari were actual members of the Ben-Hassrath. They were real Qunari. But just because they are acting without authorization from the Triumvirate does not mean they are not real Qunari, or rogue, or an offshoot.

Finally, he clarified the intention in Trespasser from the writers was that they wanted the Qunari to deliberately start a war.

Right, which is what they tried to do. No one argues anything to the contrary. The problem is that your side is taking "the Qunari" and misapplying it to the entire Qunari nation, or the Triumvirate. Weekes could have only been referring to the Qunari we fought in Trespasser.

I really don't see how the majority of people can be taking him that much out of context, as well as have all somehow come to the same erroneous conclusion because they "prefer" it that way?  When you look at what he says and how he explains it, the whole thing seems pretty cut and dry?

Because first off, I'm sure most on your side did not have the Qunari alliance. You guys recalled the Chargers. I didn't. I let them die defending the hill as was their obligation. Which means Iron Bull acted differently for you in Trespasser. Also, it didn't seem at all odd to you that the Qunari in the elvhen ruins attack Iron Bull on sight. Of course they would, he's Tal-Vashoth to them. Right? Well, not if he remained Hissrad, like he did for me. The Qunari attack him anyway. They ignore his attempt to talk to them. They intercept his requests for clarification. He ignores Viddasala's order to turn on the Inquisitor. Your side probably took that as Tal-Vashoth Bull ignoring an official Qunari command because he's not Qunari anymore.

At the same time I bet none of you asked yourselves why Viddasala would try to issue a command to a Tal-Vashoth in the first place. This is yet another violation of the Qun. The Tal-Vashoth are grey ones who are beyond all hope. They should only be destroyed. Instead, Viddasala tries to make an ally of one? Make that make sense.

So a lot of this is based on that fact that many of you really did play a different DLC than I played, because of our diverging worldstates. But some of this is based on personal want to have a storyline that shows Par Vollen going to war.

So when it comes to Weekes' statements, you guys apply your own personal meaning to them. I am simply taking them for what they actually state.

"Real Qunari" = Qunari who believe in the Qun.

"Offshoot" = Qunari who believe in their own interpretation of the Qun, or Vashoth.

"Rogue group" = Tal-Vashoth.

Authorized, Triumvirate, invasion = Not in Weekes' statements.

Then there's the fact that Trespasser ends with no war being waged between Par Vollen and the South.

Yup, it's completely clear what Weekes said and no amount of anyone trying to muddy the waters really changes that.

Thanks for agreeing with me yet again.

The Qunari are going to war and Trespasser was the start of that.

Then where's the war at? Waredawar@? Hashtag!

No rogue elements involved. This is what Sten warned us about in Dragon Age Origins.

If so, their strategy must be to kill the bas with laughter. Dragon's Breath was pathetic, and had no chance of success. Where were the legions of male-only Qunari warriors? Where were the dreadnoughts? Where was the chemical warfare that makes non-qunari go mad and foam at the mouth as they tear their fellows to pieces? Where were the Qunari in full armor for that matter? They were wearing wicker baskets and yarn! Where were the Qunari warriors who wear vitaar under their helmets that have vitaar on them?

Why hasn't Orlais been sacked? Why haven't Denerim, Amaranthine, and Highever been blown off the map? Why hasn't the new Arishok reclaimed the Qunari territory of Kirkwall? Why hasn't every mage in every Circle had their tongues ripped out yet? Where is the cake? I was told their would be cake!

[Almostfaceman]

If so, blah blah blah

 

All of your silliness is in the previous post above and it's already been explained to you what the "start" of a war can consist of... like, for WWI, it was the assassination of a single leader. Your assessment of how well Bioware pulled off the start of the Qunari war is completely irrelevant. Weekes said it's been kicked off, that's the end of that. Rogue element free. 

[Almostfaceman]

Right, which is what they tried to do. No one argues anything to the contrary. The problem is that your side is taking "the Qunari" and misapplying it to the entire Qunari nation, or the Triumvirate. Weekes could have only been referring to the Qunari we fought in Trespasser.
 

 

Incorrect, Weekes is talking about the entire Qunari nation, because that's who Iron Bull works for. That's who Sten works for. That's the only Qunari anybody really gives a crap about. Weekes makes it clear this isn't an offshoot situation, it's the Qunari nation. 

[Serza]

JESUS, GREPHER IS STILL AT IT.

 

I did a TL;DR flyby of the thread, can I know what does Arigena have in common with Viddasala?

[Reznore57]

Sorry but this had to be done

 

[Almostfaceman]

Here's a good summary of what Weekes said.

 

Us: So, um, hey... why does Iron Bull turn on us in Trespasser?

Weekes: 'Cause the Quanri you fight in Trespasser are the same Qunari giving Iron Bull his orders. It's not an offshoot thing. We could have made it an offshoot thing and not let Iron Bull possibly be killed off. But... nah. 

Us: Oh, okay, that makes sense.

Weekes: Yeah, the Qunari are going to war. 

Us: Finally!

[Andreas Amell]

Sorry but this had to be done

 

Where's the dead horse?

[Almostfaceman]

Where's the dead horse?

 

Right here.

 

[SandiKay0]

That doesn't mean she intercepted his letters, he could have said nothing, or had been in the know. His assignment was to to get close to the inquisitor, to be trusted by the inquisition. His job title was "Liar". So him showing up in Daarvard means he was in on it, or he was ordered to do so. If he was so close to becoming Tal-Vashoth before, he would have made certain. He had his own contacts. 
 
The wiki under the Qun says: All Qunari are defined by their social role, which is supposed to be a defining part of the person's nature, unchangeable and fundamental. Qunari value their tools highly and consider them part of their worthiness, as extensions of their role and duties. For example, a Qunari soldier must never be separated from his weapon; such an individual will likely be shamed and/or executed upon returning to the homeland, as it is considered the object that carries the "soul" of the individual (as opposed to the body, which is only a vessel). Others, like the Ben-Hassrath, are allowed to use whatever tools they see fit to do their job, as most of their duties are more cerebral.

 

The wiki under Ben-Hassrath says: The "Dangerous Purpose" branch is run by a priestess called the Viddasala, or "one who converts purpose," handles the conversion of foreigners, the reeducation of Qunari dissidents, and the collection and quarantine of magic. Things that, by Qunari definition, are threats to themselves and others by nature. 

 

So she was allowed to use whatever tools she saw fit. But nothing you have shown me indicates proof just what you speculated for what you found in game.It isn't proof that she intercepted his letters, it is your belief she did. It is my belief that he being still Qun he would have lied to everyone and followed Viddasala because he was ordered to. He was under the "Dangerous Questions" jurisdiction. It is your belief that she used her power and position to "go rogue" and try to start a war. It is my belief that being a part of the three top priestesses of the Ben-Hassarath she had the authority to do her job as she saw fit to cut off the head of these nations that the Qunari believe are the root cause of everything in Southern Thedas. 

 

I don't think you are wrong I didn't belittle you, I just realized that you played the game from a different head-space than I did. You took the info given you in a different way than the majority. You see that Josephine reply that Iron Bulls to "no avail" is proof that she stole his letters. I see it as The Iron Bull told her that he knew nothing. If he is still with the Qun why would he inform her "Oh, it's just the beginning of our invasion, no big deal." 

[Dai Grepher]

All of your silliness is in the previous post above and it's already been explained to you what the "start" of a war can consist of... like, for WWI, it was the assassination of a single leader. Your assessment of how well Bioware pulled off the start of the Qunari war is completely irrelevant. Weekes said it's been kicked off, that's the end of that. Rogue element free.

You're missing the point. Even if Dragon's Breath had been the start of the war, where is the war? After Trespasser there is nothing. No war. So where's the war? Where is this war you claim is upon us?

There isn't one. There isn't one, because the Triumvirate didn't plan on launching one at that time.
 

Incorrect, Weekes is talking about the entire Qunari nation, because that's who Iron Bull works for.

No he doesn't. He works under the Qun, and that means anyone in a position greater than his can potentially redirect him to some other purpose. Also, it's your opinion that he was talking about the Qunari nation. It is far more likely that he was referring to the Qunari in the DLC, and Hissrad simply sides with fellow Qunari because you didn't get him out of the Qun. That says nothing about the authorization of those Qunari.
 

That's who Sten works for. That's the only Qunari anybody really gives a crap about. Weekes makes it clear this isn't an offshoot situation, it's the Qunari nation.

Viddasala can be acting without authorization without being an offshoot.
 

I did a TL;DR flyby of the thread, can I know what does Arigena have in common with Viddasala?

Not much. The Arigena heads the "mind" branch of Qunari civilization. It is this branch that manufactures gaatlok. Viddasala was making her own gaatlok using non-Arigena workers. Thus proving she was in violation of the Qun in yet another way.
 

That doesn't mean she intercepted his letters, he could have said nothing, or had been in the know.

All letters he sent were reviewed by Leliana, as was the agreement when Hissrad signed with the Inquisition. Also, Josephine was aware of Hissrad's attempts to contact his superiors. Thus proving that the Inquisition knew he was sending letter out. That is how the Inquisition was able to conclude that Hissrad was receiving no word back. Also, if this had been an official operation, Hissrad would have received subterfuge in reply in order to keep the Inquisition fooled. The fact he received nothing means Viddasala was simply intercepting the letters and destroying them.
 

His assignment was to to get close to the inquisitor, to be trusted by the inquisition.

No it wasn't. It was to assess the situation in the South and help determine if the Qunari needed to launch and invasion to correct the problem. The problem was solved by the Inquisition, and the Triumvirate entrusted the Inquisition with more tasks better suited to it rather than their own agents.

Besides, even if that had been his purpose in the main game, it wasn't his purpose in Trespasser. Otherwise he would have killed the Inquisitor before he could foil Dragon's Breath. In fact, if he had been in the know, he would not have been sent back to the Inquisition to begin with, as he would be nothing but a security risk to the mission.
 

His job title was "Liar". So him showing up in Daarvard means he was in on it, or he was ordered to do so.

He outright said that the Viddasala asked him to lend a hand. So yes, she sent a letter to Halamshiral through one of her viddathari elves. And rather than pretend he never got the letter, he again gives in to fear of being declared Tal-Vashoth and goes to the Darvaarad. It's the same as if she gave the order in person.
 

If he was so close to becoming Tal-Vashoth before, he would have made certain. He had his own contacts.

What are you talking about? His contacts were in the Ben-Hassrath. Viddasala would have known those contacts, and would have made sure to intercept any letters going to them. That is why she missed Josephine's, because she had her own contacts.

The letter is canon proof straight from the game.
 

So she was allowed to use whatever tools she saw fit.

A Tal-Vashoth is not a tool though. A Tal-Vashoth is beyond redemption.
 

But nothing you have shown me indicates proof just what you speculated for what you found in game.It isn't proof that she intercepted his letters, it is your belief she did.

It would help if you waited for my reply to your rebuttal. But no, you just state why you think it means she may not have been intercepting his letter and you just go with it. Leliana was checking all his letters. She could verify that they were being sent as well as their content.