1580 réponses à ce sujet

[Reznore57]

Oh, there's more - if Inky is a Qunari and Kieran is OGB, he says an interesting tidbit, namely "I'm sorry what happened to your people". He says that as if the Qunari were victims of some kind of tragedy - experiments perhaps? - and perhaps their own political stems from conditioning they went through that was there to put them and in line by those who probably tried to create an army. Thing is that when Qunari left - in mysterious circumstances they're uncertain of - they either broke the chain and convinced themselves that part of their conditioning is their inherent culture they have to follow to a T (otherwise they get mad)... or... perhaps... someone deliberately let them lose on Thedas?

 

There's some fishy stuff about the Qunari...like the Tevinter mosaic in DAI , I mean sure someone could have put Qunari slaves etc in the name of propanda at a later date.

But it is bizarre.Besides why would those pieces end up in Southern Thedas , Tevinter has been driven away from those place for almost 1000 years and the Qunari have only arrive 300  years ago.

But who knows?

 

On top of that though there's the pyramids of Par Vollen , also way older than the arrival of Qunari in Thedas but had some drawing of people looking like Qunari .The only person with a vague Qunari silhouette would be Flemeth with her dragon horn haircut but that's stretching it.

 

And lastly the tome of Koslun , probably the oldest Qunari relic , the thing on which they build their civilization talks about the Old Gods.Something like the old gods were dragon kings.

Anyway "old gods" is a term , as far as I know coming from Tevinter and all the old gods are burried in Thedas.

So not sure why people not living there would care.

 

And Corynoob and the magister Titus knows the Qunari race has something going on.Cory call them a "mistake" and Titus said they were related to dragons.

How come a current magister would know for sure Qunari and dragons are related when The Iron Bull just heard rumors among his people.

[pdusen]

Weekes/Epler confirm Viddasala unauthorized.

http://forum.bioware...ent/?p=20187604

Weekes/Epler conference.

 

You saying that over and over again isn't going to change the fact that that source you're linking proves the exact opposite... but I think you know that and are just hoping no one will check.

[MrObnoxiousUK]

Surely even the Triumvirate has an intelligence branch used for cloak and dagger endeavours to advance their agenda overseas and give them a certain level of plausible deniability.

Wet work has been a staple of many governments and only a compete and total fool would leave any incriminating paperwork of any kind to be seen,one of the first thing that happens when attacked is the spies try to halt the enemy while destroying any incriminating evidence,these are veteran "spies",  if you found something it is most likely they wanted you to find it.Being disavowed if caught is part and parcel of the game they play and they are aware if they are caught they will be thrown to the wolves.

[Kurogane335]

And Corynoob and the magister Titus knows the Qunari race has something going on.Cory call them a "mistake" and Titus said they were related to dragons.

How come a current magister would know for sure Qunari and dragons are related when The Iron Bull just heard rumors among his people.

For Titus, perhaps he tried to use Qunari blood on the Magralen (not sure of the orthography here) and he witnessed that this artefact reacted to it ? That's my best guess.

 

On Koslun, I've always seen him as a prophet-philosophers, but perhaps he was actually the leader of a Rebellion trying to put in place a system which could canalize the savagery of the would-be Qunari ? He could even have been a Kossith and not a proto-Qunari and he probably tried to create a better world (kind of like Solas, really, which would be a sweet irony now that I think about it : Solas as a role-model for Koslun could perhaps shaken the resolve of our Dread Wolf, no ?). With their selective breeding, it is possible that the Qunari actually try to mitigate their bloody impulses, so perhaps the first Qunari, the people I believe were seen as living weapons by the Kossith were a lot more aggressive, barely more than rabid attack dogs ? The structures of the Qun may have had one and only goal : control them so they could learn how to control themselves. I also think that the Saarebas treatment comes from the time the Qunari were the Kosstihs "slaves", since magic probably had a lot to do with their "creation" and if their lords were magicians, well, I can guess why they tried to prevent the rise of other mage-lords in their ranks.

 

Obviously, with such a basis the Qunari probably did not notice that they hadn't need for the Qun to control their impulses, most of the time at least (in a very stressful situation, we know it can still happens, with both Sten and -probably- the Arishok as examples). So the most rigid and dangerous parts of the Qun probably dangerous interpretations of the Qun are probably leftover from this early period.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

 

I have a proposal for anyone who doesn't see the Qun as "bad". 

 

I'll set up the Qun at my house. I'll be the Triumvirate. All of you will let me be your leader. I'll tell you what to do every day. When to do so. How to do it. You'll pay me to work for me and in return I'll take away all the burdens of making your own decisions. I'll fill your head with a lot of philosophy so you can feel really good about me bossing you around. If you don't do what I tell you to do I can kill you. Or I can water-board you until you see things my way. Because the Qun. 

 

I mean, how is that worse than, say, living somewhere that you have a voice in setting things up? Where you can decide what religion you want to practice. What job you want to have. Who you want to have a family with. 

 

It's all the same right? It's all just rules and regulations and a society. And licenses. 

 

 

You are on point. Some cultures are better than others. Postmodernist cultural and moral relativists don't get that.

[ModernAcademic]

Cultures are not good or bad. They are the result of the interaction of political , economical, religious and traditional forces that often find themselves clashing against each other or forming uneasy alliances to navigate the waters of reality. And in their wake lies History and the constant reshaping of a country and its people. Or as we label it: culture.

To judge a culture as an outsider who has only seen things from the surface leads to simplistic and often wrong conclusions. Which is why judging the Qunari with a simplistic notion based on manichaeism reduces their culture to a level where it doesn't express who they are as a people. It's simply drawing personal conclusions from the customs and values of an entire fictional people based on our personal feelings rather than based on close inspection and concrete information.

Which is why I'll wait until we have the chance of taking a PC to Par Vollen so that I may have some first-hand experience and access to information that Southern Thedas lacks and that thus has so far been absent from Origins, DA2 and Inquisition.

[In Exile]

There's a difference between acknowledging there's no universal moral truth by which we could definitely say a culture is good or bad by, and the relative claim that by a given standard a culture is good or bad.

Western liberalism isn't the universally true moral framework for humanity. But we live in it and we genearally accept its principles, and there's no reason why we cannot judge other groups by it.

I agree we don't know enough about the Qun as yet to evaluate its society because of how alien the set up is (unlike Orlais or Ferelden with clearer historical paralles).

[midnight tea]

Which is why I'll wait until we have the chance of taking a PC to Par Vollen so that I may have some first-hand experience and access to information that Southern Thedas lacks and that thus has so far been absent from Origins, DA2 and Inquisition.

 

First-hand experience doesn't always go in pair with actual knowledge. I know people who got their 'first-hand' experience and it only turned them more prejudiced in some regards.

 

We do, however have a first-hand experience with fully fledged members of Qunari culture that I wouldn't so easily dismiss. Sten is practically a model Qunari who understands the world the way Qunari do, while Iron Bull "translates" a lot of that culture for us, since - unlike Sten - he actually understands Southerners a lot and can speak in a way they/we understand.

[Giantdeathrobot]

You are on point. Some cultures are better than others. Postmodernist cultural and moral relativists don't get that.

 

If you take the easy route of Qun vs modern, Western liberal society, perhaps.

 

If you take the Qun vs Orlais, or Tevinter, or Orzammar, it's harder to say for sure. One's a bastion of slaving, dog-eat-dog culture where being a mage gives you many privileges, and gaining more is very often done at the expense of your fellow men/elves, which includes using them as a battery to power your blood magic.

 

Another is a monarchy where the nobility treads upon those below as a matter of course, when they don't use them as tools in their Game or use elves as slaves behind closed doors, and let's not even go into the crimes comitted by the Chantry and its associate branches.

 

The last is about as ridiculously rigid a caste society as the Qun, but unlike it they're quite wasteful, and are content to let so many Casteless rot and die instead of actually giving them a chance to obtain a useful place in society, and their politcal system, a fairly democratic elective monarchy at first glance, is in a constant deadlock and only ever serves the interests of the upper castes. It's so corrupt that Bhelen usurping the kingship and strong-arming the Assembly into submission is pretty much a good thing.

 

And hell, even comparatively nicer places like Ferelden are monarchies where the vast majority of the population have no say in anything, and that's if they don't live under an asshat like Vaughan or Howe who probably kick puppies for the sheer lulz of it.

 

I mean, the Qun is hardly paradise and I wouldn't want to live under it at all, but compared to other Thedosian societies, it's not hell either. Qamek sure is bad, but speak out of turn to a Magister or Orlesian lord and you're probably be tortured to death or something.

[Dai Grepher]

Your opinion isn't a source and state what exactly in the Weekes interview is a source for your opinion.

I base my opinion on the facts of the game itself, not the writers. I was just pointing out where the writers made statements that support the fact that Viddasala was unauthorized in her actions. I only point this out because you and others on your side are trying to claim that Weekes' statements imply the opposite, despite the fact that neither you nor anyone on your side can actually QUOTE Weekes saying anything of the sort.

So here is my proof:

Game Developers Conference
Moscone Center San Francisco, CA
March 14-18, 2016 . Expo March 14-18

Goals for Trespasser

Set up the future of the franchise.

3:30 Epler - The Qunari, an invading force from across the sea that hates magic.

Here Epler refers to the Qunari we see in Trespasser as an invading force that hates magic. So clearly he is not referring to the Qunari people. He is only referring to the Qunari in the DLC that try to invade. This is Viddasala's group. This means Viddasala's group is separate from the rest of Qunari society in what they are doing in the DLC.


20:00 Weekes - Solas' spy, who points out the Qunari body, was not supposed to be his spy in the original draft. Idea added later.

This proves two things. 1. "The Qunari" can refer to anything, from one individual Qunari to the Qunari as a people or as race. So just because someone says "the Qunari" doesn't mean they are referring to the Qunari people or the Qunari leadership. 2. The original story had this elf as your agent. They changed this in the end to be Solas' agent. This proves that storylines can start out one way but end up being something completely different. Just because this elf was your agent in one of the first drafts doesn't mean she is in the canon release. So you wouldn't argue that she is actually an Inquisition agent, would you? No, because the storyline was changed. This is very important.


22:20 Wanted to have the Qunari present.

Establish the Qunari as a threat. Amp up tension.

Tie Qunari to lyrium mining. Hopefully enough of a hook. It wasn't.

The Qunari didn't have a great reason to be there mining lyrium. No story connection.

This is all self-explanatory. They had the Qunari minding lyrium, it wasn't enough of a hook because they had no reason and this didn't connect to the story in any way.


23:10 Weekes - At the start of the dungeon, you knew the Qunari were a problem doing something bad. At the end of the dungeon, you knew the Qunari were a problem doing something bad. No rising tension.

Explain what they are doing and give them a reason.

Again, Weekes is referring to the Qunari in Trespasser as "the Qunari". Not the Qunari as a nation or as a race. Also, he wants to give them a reason to be there mining lyrium.


23:33 Epler - Tension graphing. Low tension x3, then all of a sudden you're fighting the "Qunari leader".

John Epler explains the graph showing how much tension there was in the DLC at each stage. He points out three places with low tension, the Deep Roads included, and then refers to the stage in which the tension jumps and we are fighting the "Qunari leader". He is clearly referring to Viddasala and identifying her as the Qunari's leader. This proves that she was the top commander of this mission, and that she was alone in this command. Epler didn't call her "one of the Qunari leaders", he called her THE Qunari leader.

Now, we know from the game that she is nothing more than the head of the Ben-Hassrath's Dangerous Purpose branch. She is not a leader among the Qunari people. She is an agent. Calling her the leader proves that Dragon's Breath was her idea and hers alone. She had no other agents lateral or above her to direct the mission. She was the only high ranking official there. No other high ranking Qunari agent was involved. Not any other priest of the Ben-Hassrath, not the Ariqun, not the other members of the Triumvirate.

This proves Viddasala was unauthorized. In an authorized operation, she would not have been the leader.


24:05 Writing side. Weekes - What do the Qunari hate? Magic. They want to suppress magic. Best way to suppress magic is templars, so what if the Qunari were making templars? What if the Qunari were mining lyrium to make templars? This makes sense.

So here is Weekes explaining their thought process for giving the Qunari a reason to be there mining lyrium. The Qunari hate magic, so the first idea was to make templars.


24:40 Jerran explains Qunari are here mining lyrium to make templars so they can suppress our mages when they invade the South. This makes sense... or not.

The first idea was to have Jerran explain that the Qunari were making templars so they can suppress the Southern mages when they invade. This made sense, until it didn't.

Three things here. 1. Just because they are planning to invade the South doesn't mean the Triumvirate was. 2. This storyline was scrapped. So regardless of what you think Weekes was referring to, this storyline is not canon because it didn't make sense. 3. Even if the Triumvirate approved of a plan such as this, they wouldn't have started it during Trespasser. The Qunari would have tested out the templars ahead of time against Tevinter first. It makes no sense to test them right before Dragon's Breath. So the Triumvirate being involved makes no sense.


25:20 No templars in the DLC until now. Trying to add templars to the Qunari using magical mirrors to smuggle explosives into courts across Thedas, Exalted Council, mark on your hand, ancient elves, etc, was too much.

Going into the story on templars was too much.


25:55 Needed something simpler, something to work with the gameplay. Took out idea of Qunari templars. Didn't make sense. What did make sense was the saarebas.

A few things here. They scrapped the idea of Qunari templars being used for invasion to suppress southern mages. Scrapped it. Gone. Dead. Now, if the Triumvirate had at any point been intended to be part of this operation as having authorized it (which they weren't, and Weekes indicates this is still Viddasala only), then dropping this templar storyline would also mean dropping any storyline about the Triumvirate authorizing it. We know this because what are you left with to combat southern mages during an official invasion?

In other words, if your plan was to invade with templar Qunari to combat southern mages, but then this idea gets scrapped, then what would the official invasion use instead? Nothing. There is nothing else you can use.

So they replaced this with a plot where the Viddasala uses saarebas instead. This is because a saarbas fits the gameplay style.


26:19 Weekes - The saarebas are suppressed by the Qunari culture. The Qunari in Trespasser give lyrium to saarebas. They're making super-weapons. Taking parched mages and hooking them up to a fire-hose.

This is objectively a really bad idea for the Qunari. But that is the kind of short term gain/long term loss, dangerous deal with the devil that characters in the Dragon Age universe make all the time.

And here is Weekes' 100% irrefutable confirmation that Viddasala was unauthorized. He differentiates the Qunari in Trespasser from the rest of Qunari culture. Separating the two. What the Qunari in Trespasser were directed to do is the exact opposite of what Qunari culture has taught since the culture was founded. The Qunari culture suppresses saarebas to magic. Viddasala and those she ordered around were immersing saarebas in magic. This directly contradicts the Qun and Qunari culture. The Triumvirate is confirmed to have no part in this by extension.

Weekes also confirms this is a bad idea, but is the type of deal that DA characters make all the time. By referring to characters, Weekes confirms this is Viddasala alone. This is not the Triumvirate as a collective making this choice. It is only Viddasala.

Also, to go back to my previous point of what else would you invade with, saarebas would not be the Triumvirate's answer. Not only would the Qunari not have templars to combat southern mages, but they would then be using their own saarebas. What does the South have to combat these saarebas? Templars! So how does it make sense to send your own mages against templars in the South? Clearly this was just Viddasala's insane plan, and Jerran even states as much in the game.

And to bring up another previous point, even if we are to believe that the Triumvirate made a sudden 180 on keeping saarebas separate from all magic, and instead started powering them up with lyrium (in violation of the Qun), then once again I state that they would have tested all of this on Seheron first in battles against Tevinter. They would not risk testing them during Dragon's Breath, which was supposedly the linchpin to a southern invasion.


29:07 Revision - Test ideas to see if they work. If they don't you can change them to something better.

This part proves that the writing team had ideas that didn't work, and they scrapped them. So even if Dragon's Breath was meant to be official at some point during production, then it was scrapped before the final release. But I contend this was never to be an authorized mission, and both Weekes and Epler confirmed this in the conference presentation.
 

*facepalm* They did a complete opposite.

No, Weekes and Epler clearly differentiated between the Qunari we fight in Trespasser with the rest of Qunari culture. Their statements prove the mission was not authorized.
 

If he follows orders of Tal Vashoth he's going Tal Vashoth - whether he follows orders or not he'd be going against the Qun.

But that isn't the case with all the Qunari who were following Viddasala in trying to execute Dragon's Breath. So why would it be the case with Hissrad? All it would mean is that he was tricked along with the rest of his fellow Qunari.
 

Like - what use the Qunari would have of a spy who can't tell what is a real order or not, or follows it to save his own a**???

The Qunari want blind followers, not those who think for themselves. It is possible that Hissrad could have ignored Viddasala's order, yet still been declared Tal-Vashoth by her and all Qunari at the Darvaarad, and then be executed as a Tal-Vashoth by the Triumvirate for ignoring the order of what was thought to be an official Viddasala, even though she was also Tal-Vashoth. The Qunari thinking is messed up.

They might acknowledge that Viddasala was Tal-Vashoth, but they might also claim that it wasn't Hissrad's place to question her orders and make that determination.

Not saying the Triumvirate would definitely rule this way, but Hissrad could have perceived that as a possibility. Thus, better to die with fellow Qunari than risk being declared Tal-Vashoth at all.
 

Your little speculation would work only if IB was a complete moron OR if he acted on sort of a confused impulse.

And as we have seen in the Trespasser DLC, most of the characters in it act like complete morons.

Confusion may have played a part in Hissrad's choice. Maybe he wasn't sure if Viddasala was authorized or not, but when he was given an order, it made him feel safe and certain. So instead of question it, leading to more confusion, he just chose to blindly follow it.
 

Problem is that when he's re-Qunverted, there are NO impulses and his actions are very deliberate. It's decidedly noted that after his visit to Par Vollen he acts reserved, and if you take Cole on a mission to Darvaraad, he notes that Iron Bull was "empty inside". So there was no terror, he was fully committed to the mission ever since his re-education.

Disproved by the fact that he didn't attack you right off the rip when we first ran up to the Qunari in the elvhen ruins.

Cole was only commenting on how Hissrad felt about turning on you. Cole makes no mention of what Hissrad knew beforehand. In fact, the epilogue slides show that no one knows if Hissrad didn't know he would have to turn on the Inquisition, or if he was lying the whole time. So no, Cole gave no input.

Also, if Hissrad proves himself on the Storm Coast, he is not reeducated.
 

And even if you say that this is "just my interpretation" there still remains the fact that Weekes completely destroys yours when he said - for the n-th time - that Bull. Would. Not. Betray. Us. For. A. Rogue. Group.

Again, this wasn't a rogue group. It was a real group that was being misused by an unauthorized Viddasala.
 

And I think he knows the character he wrote way better than you.

Weekes and Epler confirmed that Viddasala was unauthorized during the conference.
 

You saying that over and over again isn't going to change the fact that that source you're linking proves the exact opposite... but I think you know that and are just hoping no one will check.

I posted all relevant points above. Refute them if you can.
 

Surely even the Triumvirate has an intelligence branch used for cloak and dagger endeavours to advance their agenda overseas and give them a certain level of plausible deniability.

Wet work has been a staple of many governments and only a compete and total fool would leave any incriminating paperwork of any kind to be seen,one of the first thing that happens when attacked is the spies try to halt the enemy while destroying any incriminating evidence,these are veteran "spies", if you found something it is most likely they wanted you to find it.

Being disavowed if caught is part and parcel of the game they play and they are aware if they are caught they will be thrown to the wolves.

But why would they need plausible deniability if they plan to invade the South regardless? Either the opening attack succeeds or it doesn't. It wouldn't cause the entire invasion to be called off. It would just make the invasion more difficult. And if this were a mission that could be called off or denied, then why wasn't it aborted the moment the Qunari soldier stumbled into the Winter Palace? Why would Par Vollen continue with the operation after the Inquisition was tipped to it, and while there is an agent of Fen'Harel running around petri-frying Qunari left and right, laying down unquenchable flames, and making spirits jump out of wolf statues and bookshelves? What kind of leaders look at the calamitous events befalling the Qunari in the Winter Palace, elven ruins, Crossroads, and Shattered Library and say, "yeah, proceed with the invasion plans"?

Yes Viddasala tried to destroy evidence that the Triumvirate did not authorize her to carry out any actions against the South. As for wanting you to find things, that would assume they expected you to reach the ruins, mines, library, and Darvaarad in the first place, which they didn't. And even the elven servant in the Winter Palace was given written instructions to place the gaatlok and then go to the mirror by a bookcase. So no, Viddasala didn't care about leaving a paper trail.

No one argues that. The problem is, if Viddasala really was acting alone without authorization, then the Triumvirate would truthfully disavow her in that case.

[KaiserShep]

Iron Bull being so easily tricked strains belief. Like a top Ben-Hassrath agent with plenty of contacts wouldn't be able to determine whether or not the Viddasala is acting on the full authority of the Triumverate? C'mon.

[The Baconer]

I'll worry about analyzing Qunari society in-depth after they've been beaten into disarmament. 

[MrObnoxiousUK]

 

But why would they need plausible deniability if they plan to invade the South regardless? Either the opening attack succeeds or it doesn't. It wouldn't cause the entire invasion to be called off. It would just make the invasion more difficult. And if this were a mission that could be called off or denied, then why wasn't it aborted the moment the Qunari soldier stumbled into the Winter Palace? Why would Par Vollen continue with the operation after the Inquisition was tipped to it, and while there is an agent of Fen'Harel running around petri-frying Qunari left, right and laying down unquenchable flames, and making spirits jump out of wolf statues and bookshelves? What kind of leaders look at the calamitous events befalling the Qunari in the Winter Palace, elven ruins, Crossroads, and Shattered Library and say, "yeah, proceed with the invasion plans"?

Yes Viddasala tried to destroy evidence that the Triumvirate did not authorize her to carry out any actions against the South. As for wanting you to find things, that would assume they expected you to reach the ruins, mines, library, and Darvaarad in the first place, which they didn't. And even the elven servant in the Winter Palace was given written instructions to place the gaatlok and then go to the mirror by a bookcase. So no, Viddasala didn't care about leaving a paper trail.

No one argues that. The problem is, if Viddasala really was acting alone without authorization, then the Triumvirate would truthfully disavow her in that case.

Well due to "Dragonfire" failing they did not invade the "South" as planned instead Tevinter got the full attention,that sounds like a contingency in action to me.Also stating a critical mission failure not affecting overall attack plans is just being disingenuous.As for why it was not called off, the triumvirate most like gave the initial approval and then distanced themselves so they had that option of stating it was disavowed elements, after all trying to fight all of the southern nations at the same time when they had not been weakened as initially planned would of been pure folly (hence the deniable assets)

 

Why should they not expect you to reach the ruins,mines and library,they have infiltrated the inquisition and there are letters appraising them of your doings, The elven servant in the palace of Halamshiral was a triple agent working for Fen Harel so it was deliberately  done to lead the inquisition bee's to the honey.

[Dai Grepher]

Iron Bull being so easily tricked strains belief.

Yes it does, but it happens no matter what. If you make Bull Tal-Vashoth, he's tricked by all the viddathari elves infiltrating the Inquisition. So what does that tell you? Bull is just not that good at spotting this kind of stuff, at least according to Trespasser.

The problem is that BioWare wanted a certain storyline, and they just hand-waved anything that got in the way of that. Logically, Tal-Vashoth Iron Bull would have spotted the infiltrators and there would have been no gaatlok barrels in the first place. But this defeats the whole storyline. So they made Bull less observant. They even had him boast about being Ben-Hassrath because he was able to notice the Chargers screwing around with a heavy dragon skull. Then he misses the important stuff.

Same with Cole and his mind-reading. He could have stopped all of it, but they hand-waved his ability so the storyline could take place.
 

Like a top Ben-Hassrath agent with plenty of contacts wouldn't be able to determine whether or not the Viddasala is acting on the full authority of the Triumverate? C'mon.

He was sending word to his contacts and was getting NOTHING back from them. Josephine confirms this in her letter. The Triumvirate reply also confirms that they didn't receive any word of Viddasala's actions until Josephine's letter, which also didn't get back to the Inquisition because Viddasala intercepted it.

I mean, you guys have to read the stuff you pick up in the game. Either that or you need to search around better.
 

Well due to "Dragonfire" failing they did not invade the "South" as planned instead Tevinter got the full attention,that sounds like a contingency in action to me.

First, it's not "Dragonfire", it's "Dragon's Breath". Second, Tevinter had their full attention the whole time. Third, I was referring to Dragon's Breath being discovered. From that point the plan was doomed to failure. If there was a contingency plan, the operation would have been aborted upon the Qunari body being found. Or, if this were an official operation, the invasion would have come even if Dragon's Breath had failed. If the Triumvirate wanted to invade, they would have tried. They aren't going to call off an invasion just because their opening attack failed.
 

Also stating a critical mission failure not affecting overall attack plans is just being disingenuous.

Then what do you call Viddasala? She outright tells you that with Dragon's Breath foiled the Qunari will now take the way of blades and invade anyway. Yet no invasion took place.
 

As for why it was not called off, the triumvirate most like gave the initial approval and then distanced themselves so they had that option of stating it was disavowed elements,

No, you're missing the point. Why didn't they abort the mission so it was not discovered in the first place? Then they wouldn't have to disavow anything. Even if discovered after aborted, they could still disavow it.
 

after all trying to fight all of the southern nations at the same time when they had not been weakened as initially planned would of been pure folly (hence the deniable assets)

But don't you see that's exactly why such a mission would not be authorized in the first place? If they can't take the full force of the southern nations, then it makes no sense to risk incurring their wrath in a botched mission. As soon as the Agent of Fen'Harel showed up and caused havoc, that should have been the end of Dragon's Breath. Postponed indefinitely.
 

Why should they not expect you to reach the ruins,mines and library,they have infiltrated the inquisition and there are letters appraising them of your doings, The elven servant in the palace of Halamshiral was a triple agent working for Fen Harel so it was deliberately  done to lead the inquisition bee's to the honey.

Because the Qunari in Trespasser did not foresee an Agent of Fen'Harel exposing their activity in the ruins, nor did they plan for the Inquisitor to come snooping in the mines, nor did they plan for the mirror by the bookcase to be revealed, nor did Viddasala think the Spirit of Learning would tell you the passphrase for the mirror leading to the Darvaarad. And at no point did they have guards posted at the mirrors waiting for you to step through.

Solas' agent was a double agent. She sent nothing to the Qunari.

[KaiserShep]

They aren't going to call off an invasion just because their opening attack failed.

 

Why not? Failure in the initial attack leaves them with 3 enemies at full strength to oppose them. 

[Dai Grepher]

^Until the second attack. That's how invasions work. So they missed on the first strike. So what? That just means you hit them harder on the second strike. Then the third, fourth, and so on.

An invasion would not be contingent on Dragon's Breath. Viddasala tells you that all you did was prevent a quick and painless takeover. Now the invasion will be more brutal.

But of course Viddasala was lying. There was never any invasion planned. She was just trying to start a war by attacking the South and claiming that Par Vollen was responsible. She was trying to force the Triumvirate into a war by provoking the South to end the Llomeryn Accords.

[Addictress]

There was never any invasion planned. She was just trying to start a war 

 

Every time I come into this thread I just get confused. Like I feel maybe I am more dumb than I realized?

[Dai Grepher]

It isn't your fault. The other side is putting out all kinds of false information. Maybe not intentionally, but many of the things they write are inaccurate or outright contradictory to what is in the game.

[Almostfaceman]

It isn't your fault. The other side is putting out all kinds of false information. Maybe not intentionally, but many of the things they write are inaccurate or outright contradictory to what is in the game.

 

 

I know, it's so confusing quoting Weekes and providing links to official interviews. 

[Almostfaceman]

Every time I come into this thread I just get confused. Like I feel maybe I am more dumb than I realized?

 

If you want just watch the linked video and the interview in the OP. That's all I did. I didn't come at this with any pre-conceived notions. I was able to make up my own mind. Nobody talked me into anything. 

[ModernAcademic]

First-hand experience doesn't always go in pair with actual knowledge. I know people who got their 'first-hand' experience and it only turned them more prejudiced in some regards.

 

We do, however have a first-hand experience with fully fledged members of Qunari culture that I wouldn't so easily dismiss. Sten is practically a model Qunari who understands the world the way Qunari do, while Iron Bull "translates" a lot of that culture for us, since - unlike Sten - he actually understands Southerners a lot and can speak in a way they/we understand.

 

 

Which is why I'll wait until we have the chance of taking a PC to Par Vollen so that I may have some first-hand experience and access to information that Southern Thedas lacks and that thus has so far been absent from Origins, DA2 and Inquisition.

 

Just repeating that quote from my previous post to emphasize I never mentioned we as players should learn about the Qunari SOLELY from first-hand experience as you put it, since drawing conclusions solely from personal experience is obviously bound to lead someone to draw partial conclusions from said experience. 

 

As stated on the post, we should also have access to more information on them, from other means that weren't available before due to the Qunari being a xenophobic people and to limited geographical conditions (the PC never visits any regions where he might learn more about the Qunari from a reliable source). Such information might be available in Tevinter, for instance, where there must be scholars who study the ways of the enemy for centuries.

 

 

About Bull and Sten, they are not very reliable sources because the Qunari have proven once and again they are reticent to share the truth about their society with outsiders. Bull was trained to be an agent and a liar. As for Sten, he strives to show to the Warden only what HE thinks an outsider should see when contemplating a Qunari warrior. So he lets you see what he wants you to see.

 

Qunari are manipulative that way. The Qun dictates they must have different policies for their kind and for foreigners, the non-enlightened people, according to their system of belief. 

 

You want to learn about the Qunari culture, you need to become Viddathari or have access to information that is not easily found where your PC lives. 

[Almostfaceman]

About Bull and Sten, they are not very reliable sources because the Qunari have proven once and again they are reticent to share the truth about their society with outsiders. Bull was trained to be an agent and a liar. As for Sten, he strives to show to the Warden only what HE thinks an outsider should see when contemplating a Qunari warrior. So he lets you see what he wants you to see.

 

 

Nah, Bioware's just not that subtle. Iron Bull and Sten are fun codex fonts of information to make Thedas more interesting. 

 

I think further revelations will be more about the Qunari origins, rather than drastically changing anything revealed thus far through the Qunari we've met. 

[Serza]

Hey, Gi, what's the first Qunari option for Bull on the coast, anyway?

[MrObnoxiousUK]

It isn't your fault. The other side is putting out all kinds of false information. Maybe not intentionally, but many of the things they write are inaccurate or outright contradictory to what is in the game.

The more and more i read your twisted half truths you have wrestled into a your idealized version of the facts the more i am convinced you work as spin doctor for a political party.

[MrObnoxiousUK]

 

He was sending word to his contacts and was getting NOTHING back from them. Josephine confirms this in her letter. The Triumvirate reply also confirms that they didn't receive any word of Viddasala's actions until Josephine's letter, which also didn't get back to the Inquisition because Viddasala intercepted it.

 

The found Triumvirate"letter" could be fake made to deflect suspicion, an official courier for the triumvirate will have an official escort and even a rogue element will have a hell of a job trying to justify to waylay the top 3 bosses personal mail.

I mean, you guys have to read the stuff you pick up in the game. Either that or you need to search around better.

 

We do,you assume we do not,you just twist half truths into a form that suits you rhetoric.
 

First, it's not "Dragonfire", it's "Dragon's Breath". Second, Tevinter had their full attention the whole time. Third, I was referring to Dragon's Breath being discovered. From that point the plan was doomed to failure. If there was a contingency plan, the operation would have been aborted upon the Qunari body being found. Or, if this were an official operation, the invasion would have come even if Dragon's Breath had failed. If the Triumvirate wanted to invade, they would have tried. They aren't going to call off an invasion just because their opening attack failed.
 

Okay,i got the name a bit wrong,my bad. Tevinter has been in a state of war with Qunari elements in a sort of cold war with seasonal fighting along a stable front to the point it is almost routine for both factions,it has been stated by the Qunari numerous times that they are not on a full war footing.

If they found a body they would abort,really you think they live in the age of email and instant messaging do you? Information is passed up and down the line via courier and snail mail,by the time the big wigs get an update on a situation it can be too late to stop anything from happening,which is why they most likely gave Viddy broad operational freedoms.

Then what do you call Viddasala? She outright tells you that with Dragon's Breath foiled the Qunari will now take the way of blades and invade anyway. Yet no invasion took place.

 

I get the feeling the Fen Harel wiped out alot more than what we saw on screen,i could well be wrong but in my opinion i think the "manpower" in the Eluvian system numbered in the low to high hundreds.You should not take everything a spy tells you at face value,they are famed for deception after all.

 

No, you're missing the point. Why didn't they abort the mission so it was not discovered in the first place? Then they wouldn't have to disavow anything. Even if discovered after aborted, they could still disavow it.
 

No,what you mean is "why are not you bending to my twisted half truths and logic"

But don't you see that's exactly why such a mission would not be authorized in the first place? If they can't take the full force of the southern nations, then it makes no sense to risk incurring their wrath in a botched mission. As soon as the Agent of Fen'Harel showed up and caused havoc, that should have been the end of Dragon's Breath. Postponed indefinitely.
 

You don't get it,the Qunari triumvirate gambled and failed,they took a risk,a calculated risk that tried to stack the odds in their favour but a risk none the less.Also once you send an army away it is very VERY hard to get it to turn around and stop.

Because the Qunari in Trespasser did not foresee an Agent of Fen'Harel exposing their activity in the ruins, nor did they plan for the Inquisitor to come snooping in the mines, nor did they plan for the mirror by the bookcase to be revealed, nor did Viddasala think the Spirit of Learning would tell you the passphrase for the mirror leading to the Darvaarad. And at no point did they have guards posted at the mirrors waiting for you to step through.

 

They did not initially plan for it but they are smart and they adapt as the situation developed,you are acting like the Qunari are stupid children, Ben Hassarath are chosen for the ability to adapt on the fly.

Solas' agent was a double agent. She sent nothing to the Qunari.

 

How do you know? are you in the Triumvirate and Ben Hassarath mailing list or are you maybe a courier?