1580 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

Just to point out the obvious, Bull said Qunari don't use armors unless it's war, and a splinter faction simply couldn't afford maintaining a captive Dragon

Do you have his exact quote? I will withhold my reply to that until there is a quote.

Also, the Ben-Hassrath didn't have armor.

The dragon was easily maintained, as detailed in the animal trainer's journal.

[Almostfaceman]

The Qun is the Tome of Koslun, and all the tenets therein.

 

And the Triumvirate has the final say how this is implemented. Qunari citizens don't get together and have debate over verses in the Tome of Koslun. If you don't agree with the Triumvirate about how this Tome is interpreted and/or implemented, you are reeducated, killed, or declared Tal'Vashoth.

 

The Triumvirate is the Qun. 

 

That you cannot make this distinction supports others claims that you take some things far too literally failing to take into account context and application. 

[robertthebard]

Completely wrong. Your side has been misinterpreting Weekes' statements since the first post. I have merely been pointing out how what he said does not support your side's theory.

As for what I want, I would prefer that the Triumvirate really start a war with the South. I am for that. But nothing in Trespasser or Weekes' statements indicate that this was the case. All facts point to it being Viddasala acting without authorization.

I won't argue against the truth.

You've been arguing against the truth since your first post, and my, but the mental gymnastics required for some of those arguments.

However, a Qun loyal IB will turn on the Inquisitor at the behest of the Vidassala. All your arguments are invalid. IF she was rogue, he would have been advised of such. If it wasn't an official operation, IB would not be compelled to blow his cover. He was, and he does. Any argument stating "she wasn't authorized" is trumped by the fact that a Qun loyal IB will turn on the Inquisitor.

[The Ascendant]

We must scour them from existence, lest they do the same to us.

[Sifr]

Completely wrong. Your side has been misinterpreting Weekes' statements since the first post. I have merely been pointing out how what he said does not support your side's theory.

As for what I want, I would prefer that the Triumvirate really start a war with the South. I am for that. But nothing in Trespasser or Weekes' statements indicate that this was the case. All facts point to it being Viddasala acting without authorization.

I won't argue against the truth.

 

Actually, I do believe the rest of us have been pointing out that Weekes' comments have supported our argument since the first post, especially when it comes to him talking about the writer's intentions for Trespasser that further support our case... which makes it less of a theory and more Word of God.

 

You have thus far provided few facts save for those you claim we are misinterpreting, rather than any other evidence save for the codex (itself of dubious credibility) that directly contradicts the idea the Triumvirate did indeed plan the invasion of the South and Viddasala was acting under their orders.

 

Here however are some quotes from the game, that show us what the Qunari think of everything that happens in Inquisition and Trespasser;

 

Spoiler

Iron Bull:

 

"The Ben-Hassrath are concerned with the Breach. Magic out of control like that could cause trouble everywhere."

 

"The Qunari want to know if they need to launch an invasion to stop the whole damn world from falling apart."

 

Bull's first conversation about us indicates the state of how the Qunari are perceiving the Breach and what their intentions are to do about it, should anyone in the South fail to do anything about it in a reasonable amount of time.

 

Does it really seem like the Qunari thing to do to put their invasion plans on hold while they wait back for reports from Bull? Or is it more likely they continued building up the war machine, hoping someone else would deal with the Breach and give them one less thing to worry about when they finally are ready to carry out the invasion itself?

 

Gatt:

 

"The Qunari don't really bargain, they don't know how."

 

Saying that the Qunari-Inquisition Alliance means they wouldn't invade is severely underestimating the Qunari's willingness to discard a tool once it can no longer be used or benefits them, such as the Inquisition by the time of Trespasser.

 

Gatt tells us when we ask about the nature of the alliance, that the Qunari are basically doing this because it benefits them (they're basically outsourcing covert operations to us) and this deal is by no means written in stone.

 

Viddasala:

 

"The Qun left your people to curb your own magic. You've amply proved we should have stepped in long ago."

 

"Do you believe closing the Breach solved everything, that it's consequences stopped there? The day we saw the Breach, the Qun decided it's action. We would remove your leaders and spare those who toil."

 

The Viddasala speaks here that this has been a "Demand of the Qun" the Qunari have been engaged in since the Breach opened, something that the Iron Bull's first conversation told us was always there. That the Breach was closed does not mean that the plan was called off.

 

Not invading straight away actually benefited the Qunari, as they were free to build up their forces while a bunch of bas focused on closing the Breach. The benefit for them was that by letting a bunch of expendable bas remove a major obstacle like the Breach, the Qunari would not have to divide their forces dealing with it once they invaded.

 

"Solas tricked us all. He pushed a dying Qunari into the Winter Palace to lure you to opposing us. Without him we could have brought the south peace and wisdom along the gentle path, now we must take the way of blades."

 

Viddasala here seems to imply that the "gentle path" was to wipe out all the leadership, then sweep in while the southern nations were reeling and rudderless to try and swiftly bring the south under the Qun. Since that plan was thwarted by being publicly unveiled by Solas and the Inqusition, the Qunari invasion have to involve open warfare. This will cause a lot more death and destruction than the Qunari intended, something she had previously alluded to earlier by stating that they wanted to spare "those who toil".

 

There's a lot to back up that the Qunari were always intending to invade, let alone things the writer's have said that seem to confirm this. At this point it's a lot harder to argue against the Qunari's invasion plans, based on all that we've seen from them in the last three games.

[Dai Grepher]

https://youtu.be/b0zNyv_WdH0?t=21m50s

Dorian: It's stupid. They should wear armor.

The Iron Bull: You see a member of the Beresaad in full armor, you run, because it's war.

The Qunari in Trespasser weren't in full armor. Their armor was light. Also, all warriors of the Beresaad were seen only in areas outside of the South, with the exception of the one dead Qunari who stumbled into the palace because of Solas.

As I explained before, these warriors were requested by Viddasala to protect the lives of the Ben-Hassrath while they investigated the elvhen ruins.

And the Triumvirate has the final say how this is implemented.

What do you mean how it's implemented? I'm talking about those who swear adherence to the Qun. Viddasala swore adherence to the Qun, so she was real Qunari. The Triumvirate never had the chance to judge her, and Weekes did not mention her or her operation at all. So your argument is moot.

That you cannot make this distinction supports others claims that you take some things far too literally failing to take into account context and application.

No, you're simply posting irrelevant things again.

However, a Qun loyal IB will turn on the Inquisitor at the behest of the Vidassala. All your arguments are invalid.

It was explained that he did so because he didn't want to take a risk of being declared Tal-Vashoth. This proves nothing about Viddasala being authorized or not.

IF she was rogue, he would have been advised of such.

Josephine's letter states that Iron Bull had been trying to contact his immediate superiors to not avail. So no, he wouldn't have been advised because Viddasala was intercepting the letters.

If it wasn't an official operation, IB would not be compelled to blow his cover.

Then why didn't he blow his cover to ensure the operation's success? Why did he blow his cover after the operation was foiled? Besides, keeping his cover should apply regardless. It doesn't, which means he was concerned about something else, like possibly being called Tal-Vashoth.

He was, and he does. Any argument stating "she wasn't authorized" is trumped by the fact that a Qun loyal IB will turn on the Inquisitor.

No it isn't.

[Darkstarr11]

Is anyone else thinking of 12 Angry Men?  Or is it just me?

 

Logical fallacy.  The Viddisala CANNOT have done what she did without authorization.  Resources were too great for a small operation.  Second, the Triumvirate HAD to have known what she was doing.  The operation was simply too big.  Third, Patrick Weekes statement (which had been quoted EXTENSIVELY) stated that they WEREN'T going to do an offshoot.  In ORDER for the Viddisala to have gone rogue, she would have had to defy her bosses, making her...tada...Tal-Vashoth.  That'd make her outside the Qun.  It DOESN'T make sense.  Also, WHY would Weekes say that they were going to OWN this, if they were going to turn around and have an offshoot?  Why would they say they would 'own this' and then...NOT own it?  Numbers, resources, and a friggin' Dragon were involved.  Also, the Viddisala was INSANELY devout and proud of what she was doing...why would she NOT report what she was doing to her bosses?  If she reported it, and they DID not reproach her for her actions, then they ALLOWED it.  Which meant it was authorized.  If she DIDN'T tell them, because they would disapprove, she was going AGAINST the Qun, and would be Tal-Vashoth.  If you are looking for them to OFFICIALLY state it, thats fine, but if SHE KNEW she was breaking her oaths, she KNEW in her heart that she was going contrary to the Qun, and in her HEART, she was Tal-Vashoth.  This was a HIGH RANKING priestess.  She was DEVOUT.  She wouldn't just break her oaths.  Every statement she made was made with certainty.  She believed, and I can infer based upon her actions and words, that she was acting with full authorization AND was following the tenants of the Qun.

 

Analyzing is fun (I mean, it IS, we all do it) but at this point, it seems just like denial.  The Viddisala had sanction to proceed with the Dragons Breath.  Saying that she didn't is tantamount to saying that Alistair and the Warden were lacking in approval in their actions because they lacked direct endorsement of the Wardens in the Anderfels.  Going by the LETTER and not the SPIRIT of what happened in Trespasser...even then, its a hard sell.  Court of public opinion seems to think she was authorized.  Evidence supports that conclusion.  We aren't looking for a way out of a mess...we see a storm coming, and we are accepting of it.  

 

Its not personal, its just what it is.  But I know, THANKS FOR POSTING, right? 

[Almostfaceman]

What do you mean how it's implemented? I'm talking about those who swear adherence to the Qun. Viddasala swore adherence to the Qun, so she was real Qunari. The Triumvirate never had the chance to judge her, and Weekes did not mention her or her operation at all. So your argument is moot.
 

 

This what I mean how it's implemented. 

 

The Tome is a book. It has a philosophy, ideas. People bring those ideas to life. The Triumvirate is the governmental authority on the meaning of the Qun and how it applies to Qunari society. Their interpretation of the Qun is final. Their implementation of the Qun is final. 

 

The Triumvirate implements the Qun by sending troops to attack Tevinter. 

The Triumvirate implements the Qun by sending Sten to find out what the Blight is. 

 

The Triumvirate uses the Tome as its authority. It kills people implementing the Qun. It reeducates people using the Qun. It classifies people using the Qun. 

 

This is how the Qun becomes more than mere words in a Tome, they become a people implementing their power to mold and shape individuals by force into a certain type of society. 

 

All Weekes talks about is her authorized operation. It's only her authorized operation, we see in Trespasser. What else was Weekes talking about in the OP? Qunari mating rituals? 

[SweetTeaholic]

Why is this still going? A better question: Where are the mods to lock this?

[Sifr]

Dorian: It's stupid. They should wear armor.

The Iron Bull: You see a member of the Beresaad in full armor, you run, because it's war.

The Qunari in Trespasser weren't in full armor. Their armor was light. Also, all warriors of the Beresaad were seen only in areas outside of the South, with the exception of the one dead Qunari who stumbled into the palace because of Solas.

As I explained before, these warriors were requested by Viddasala to protect the lives of the Ben-Hassrath while they investigated the elvhen ruins.

 

Perhaps because they were Ben-Hassrath, not members of the Beresaad?

 

While the note at the Darvaraad refers to a Sten being present, we've seen Adaar use that term to refer to Bull during their first meeting, suggesting the word can be used for any commander of soldiers.

 

Makes me wonder now if that's the reason why Sten introduces himself formally as "Sten of the Beresaad" in Origins, something they might do to distinguish them from potential Sten working under the Ben-Hassrath or elsewhere?

 

(Unless of course, Adaar being a non-native speaker of Qunlat simply got it wrong... which I'll concede is possible too)

[Dai Grepher]

Actually, I do believe the rest of us have been pointing out that Weekes' comments have supported our argument since the first post, especially when it comes to him talking about the writer's intentions for Trespasser that further support our case... which makes it less of a theory and more Word of God.

You've been applying your own interpretations to his words, and coming up with a completely different meaning.
 

You have thus far provided few facts save for those you claim we are misinterpreting, rather than any other evidence save for the codex (itself of dubious credibility) that directly contradicts the idea the Triumvirate did indeed plan the invasion of the South and Viddasala was acting under their orders.

I refuted your misinterpretation of Weekes' interview statements. That wins me the whole thread right there. But I have also gone on to explain why Dragon's Breath wasn't authorized, and pointed out all the ways Viddasala was acting outside of the Qun. I have also pointed to examples from DA2 supporting the concept of real Qunari who are not authorized. No one has refuted a single fact or argument I have posted here.
 

Here however are some quotes from the game, that show us what the Qunari think of everything that happens in Inquisition;
 
"The Ben-Hassrath are concerned with the Breach. Magic out of control like that could cause trouble everywhere."
"The Qunari want to know if they need to launch an invasion to stop the whole damn world from falling apart."
 
Bull's first conversation about us indicates the state of how the Qunari are perceiving the Breach and what their intentions are to do about it, should anyone in the South fail to do anything about it in a reasonable amount of time.

Correct, and this is in direct conflict with what Viddasala claims, which is that the Qunari decided to launch an invasion effort the moment they saw the Breach. We know this is false based on the fact that the Qunari are pleased with the reports of all the problems being fixed in the South, and because they form an alliance with the Inquisition. They also save Denerim from being burned down, and help clear out Venatori spies from all parts of the South. Then after this they entrust various missions to the Inquisition because it is better suited to handle it than their own agents.

She also makes the contradictory claim that they left the South to curb the Inquisitor's magic, and their failure to do so called for invasion from Par Vollen. This contradicts her own statement about the invasion being for the Breach. It also goes against the Triumvirate's actions if it started the alliance and entrusted more missions to the Inquisition to solve. Then there's the fact that the Exalted Council was called to do exactly what Viddasala said it had failed to do, curb the Inquisitor's power. So why would they try to attack before the Inquisition had its power and forces reduced? Better to wait until afterward.
 

Does it really seem like the Qunari thing to do to put their invasion plans on hold while they wait back for reports from Bull? Or is it more likely they continued building up the war machine, hoping someone else would deal with the Breach and give them one less thing to worry about when they finally are ready to carry out the invasion itself?

I'm sure Par Vollen has been building the war machine for ages. That makes no difference about anything. The point is that they didn't know if they needed to invade the South or not. Hissrad was sent to find out. The answer was "not", so they didn't invade. Now the Breach is two years closed, and the Exalted Council is talking about checking the Inquisitor's power. So based on Viddasala's rationale, Par Vollen has no reason to invade the South right now.
 

"The Qunari don't really bargain, they don't know how."
 
Saying that the Qunari-Inquisition Alliance means they wouldn't invade is severely underestimating the Qunari's willingness to discard a tool once it can no longer be used or benefits them, such as the Inquisition by the time of Trespasser.

That isn't my argument though. My point about the alliance is that it is proof that the Triumvirate sees no reason to invade at present. It doesn't need to invade to stop the Breach, or Corypheus, or to curb any kind of magic. The Triumvirate is better off trying to topple Tevinter first, and leave the Llomeryn Accords in place until they are ready to conquer the South.
 

Gatt tells us when we ask about the nature of the alliance, that the Qunari are basically doing this because it benefits them (they're basically outsourcing covert operations to us) and this deal is by no means written in stone.

I know.
 

"We left the south to curb your own magic. Now we see we should have stepped in long ago."

I hope you see the absurdity of her statement. The Qunari trusted bas to curb their own magic? When it allegedly plotted to invade to stop that magic themselves? Hmph! And now they see they should have stepped in long ago? Then why trust more missions to the Inquisition that is so clearly out of control?

I think you and others here are at a disadvantage if you have not played an alliance worldstate. I simply have access to more facts than your side does.
 

"Do you believe closing the Breach solved everything, that it's consequences stopped there? The day we saw the Breach, the Qun decided it's action. We would remove your leaders and spare those who toil."

Yeah, complete contradiction of what Iron Bull said when we met him. The Qunari didn't even know what was happening, let alone how to fix it. Killing the Southern leaders would have done nothing at all.

Try to look at this from my perspective. Why is Viddasala explaining all of this to someone she intends to kill? What's the point? And if this was supposed to be a covert operation that the Triumvirate could distance itself from at any time, then why is Viddasala implicating them? Because that's her true plan. Not to kill all the leaders, though if she does it's a bonus for her, but rather to start a war with the South. She's dissatisfied with the Triumvirate's approach to conquering the world. She thinks her way is better. So she's taking matters into her own hands and she's trying to make you think Par Vollen has committed an act of war against the South.
 

The Viddasala speaks here that this has been a "Demand of the Qun" the Qunari have been engaged in since the Breach opened, something that the Iron Bull's first conversation told us was always there. That the Breach was closed does not mean that the plan was called off.

It was called off for the purpose of answering the problem of the Breach. They intend to invade one day, but not any time soon.
 

Not invading straight away actually benefited the Qunari, as they were free to build up their forces while a bunch of bas focused on closing the Breach. The benefit for them was that by letting a bunch of expendable bas remove a major obstacle like the Breach, the Qunari would not have to divide their forces dealing with it once they invaded.

There's a lot to back up that the Qunari were always intending to invade, let alone things the writer's have said that seem to confirm this. At this point it's a lot harder to argue that the Qunari aren't planning to invade, based on all that we've seen from them in the last three games.

They didn't know if invasion was even called for in dealing with the Breach. Hissrad was sent there to find out. But sure, they would prefer bas deal with the Breach. So what? Doesn't mean they planned to invade before beating Tevinter. You don't spread your forces before your worst enemy is defeated.

We all know that Par Vollen intends to invade one day. But there is ZERO to suggest that Dragon's Breath was part of any invasion plot. They plan to invade, just not during Trespasser or any time soon.

[Almostfaceman]

We all know that Par Vollen intends to invade one day. But there is ZERO to suggest that Dragon's Breath was part of any invasion plot. They plan to invade, just not during Trespasser or any time soon.

 

Well Patrick Weekes and John Epler don't agree with you.

 

At 3:37 The Trespasser DLC: Goals are:

- Wrap up the Inquisitor's story

- Set up future of the franchise

 

Set up the future of the franchise has three elements. Eluvians, Qunari, Ancient Elves.

 

At 3:22 John Epler begins and says..

 

"We had a lot... the Dragon Age franchise has a lot of moving parts a lot of narrative elements, some of which we didn't really bring in Inquisition. We wanted to bring those back put them back on the table so we had Eluvians, magic mirrors that let you travel long distances, we had the Qunari, an invading force from across the sea that hates magic..."

 

So who are the Qunari being set up as for the future of the franchise? An invading force from across the see that hates magic. 

 

Who are the Qunari in the Trespasser DLC? An invading force from across the sea that hates magic. 

 

http://gdcvault.com/...tion-Trespasser

[Dai Grepher]

Logical fallacy.  The Viddisala CANNOT have done what she did without authorization.  Resources were too great for a small operation.

That's why Viddasala was making her own gaatlok. Hissrad even states he can't believe the Arigena let that much gaatlok out of Par Vollen. It's because she didn't. Viddasala was making her own, which we later discover.

As for manpower, the Viddasala can request soldiers to defend her agents while they investigate elvhen ruins.

The viddathari and their reeducation are a legitimate role of the Viddasala. She twisted them to her own desired purposes.

So what other resources are you having trouble accounting for?

Second, the Triumvirate HAD to have known what she was doing.  The operation was simply too big.

She was operating inside the Daarvarad, and she told her agents to conceal the sources of artifacts from the gatekeeper. This is found in the Gatekeeper's logbook. Also, her bases were thousands of miles away in elvhen ruins, and one was in an alternate dimension. How is the Triumvirate supposed to know about any of this while they are busy plotting against Tevinter?

Third, Patrick Weekes statement (which had been quoted EXTENSIVELY) stated that they WEREN'T going to do an offshoot.  In ORDER for the Viddisala to have gone rogue, she would have had to defy her bosses, making her...tada...Tal-Vashoth.  That'd make her outside the Qun.  It DOESN'T make sense.

Weekes said it wouldn't be a rogue group that wasn't part of the real Qunari. Viddasala was a real agent, and those she commanded were real Qunari. Her operating in secret does not make her rogue or Tal-Vashoth, just as the Arishok in DA2 was not rogue or outside of the Qun when he flipped out and attacked Kirkwall.

Also, WHY would Weekes say that they were going to OWN this, if they were going to turn around and have an offshoot?

It wasn't an offshoot. It was a group of real Qunari acting without authorization.

Numbers, resources, and a friggin' Dragon were involved.

So what if a dragon was involved? It's a dangerous thing worthy of quarantine, is it not? And some at the Darvaarad questioned Viddasala's actions. She had deceptions for all of them.

Also, the Viddisala was INSANELY devout and proud of what she was doing...why would she NOT report what she was doing to her bosses?

Because they didn't authorize any of it. She planned to just inform them when it was completed and claim she did it all for the Qun.

If she reported it, and they DID not reproach her for her actions, then they ALLOWED it.  Which meant it was authorized.  If she DIDN'T tell them, because they would disapprove, she was going AGAINST the Qun, and would be Tal-Vashoth.

She could argue that she was just taking some initiative in her role of stopping magic.

Anyway, the fact that she threw her life away on Solas after he let her go proves that she wasn't authorized. She knew she would be declared Tal-Vashoth after balling up the letter. Success was her only hope of having a defense, and that was gone.

If you are looking for them to OFFICIALLY state it, thats fine, but if SHE KNEW she was breaking her oaths, she KNEW in her heart that she was going contrary to the Qun, and in her HEART, she was Tal-Vashoth.

I seriously doubt she say it that way. She likely believed that what she was doing was justified by the Qun. Read her letter to the viddathari in the Vir Dirthara. "Thus all paths converge," or something like that. Saarath was no better. They were both nuts.

Oh, she was also feeding lyrium to saarebas and she brought red lyrium into Qunari lands. So that proves for certain that she was defying the Triumvirate's wishes.

This was a HIGH RANKING priestess.  She was DEVOUT.  She wouldn't just break her oaths.  Every statement she made was made with certainty.

So was her accusation that you were an agent of Fen'Harel. Look how that turned out.

She believed, and I can infer based upon her actions and words, that she was acting with full authorization AND was following the tenants of the Qun.

Then why did she ball up the Triumvirate's letter?

[Dai Grepher]

Analyzing is fun (I mean, it IS, we all do it) but at this point, it seems just like denial.

You guys are in denial. You can't even counter any of the facts I have posted.

The Viddisala had sanction to proceed with the Dragons Breath. Saying that she didn't is tantamount to saying that Alistair and the Warden were lacking in approval in their actions because they lacked direct endorsement of the Wardens in the Anderfels.

Well then couldn't you justify Viddasala acting alone based on this perspective? Par Vollen wants to conquer the whole world eventually, right? Well Viddasala was just aiding in that effort. How was she supposed to know the Triumvirate wouldn't approve of her methods?

She likely justified it in a way similar to that. She saw her actions as being demanded by the Qun. She saw going around the Triumvirate as demanded by the Qun. She was a crazy zealot.

Going by the LETTER and not the SPIRIT of what happened in Trespasser...even then, its a hard sell. Court of public opinion seems to think she was authorized.

Neither opinion nor number of people determine what is true or false. And on the subject of opinion, the characters in the game conclude that Par Vollen did not authorize Viddasala. So deal with that.

Evidence supports that conclusion. We aren't looking for a way out of a mess...we see a storm coming, and we are accepting of it.

There is nothing to support the idea that she was authorized.

Yes the invasion will be attempted someday, but it wasn't in Trespasser, and it won't be in DA4.

The Tome is a book. It has a philosophy, ideas. People bring those ideas to life. The Triumvirate is the governmental authority on the meaning of the Qun and how it applies to Qunari society. Their interpretation of the Qun is final. Their implementation of the Qun is final.

Ah no. The Temassran's are the priests. They have more influence over the meaning of the Qun than the Arishok or the Arigena. Viddasala was a priest. So she could in essence make up her own justifications, which is what she did in her letters in the Vir Dirthara and the Darvaarad.

However, the Triumvirate is to decide when to go to war. And they did not authorize any actions against the South, as they confirm in their letter in all worldstates.

The Triumvirate implements the Qun by sending troops to attack Tevinter.
The Triumvirate implements the Qun by sending Sten to find out what the Blight is.

No, that was the Arishok who does that.

The Triumvirate uses the Tome as its authority. It kills people implementing the Qun. It reeducates people using the Qun. It classifies people using the Qun.

Okay, but as this relates to the discussion, those who believe in the Qun are Qunari by definition of the Qun. So as long as Viddasala genuinely believes in the Qun, she is real Qunari.

However, Weekes never refers to Viddasala. So he might see her as rogue for all we know. It wouldn't contradict his statements in the interview.

This is how the Qun becomes more than mere words in a Tome, they become a people implementing their power to mold and shape individuals by force into a certain type of society.

And Viddasala was doing what she thought the Qun demanded, I'm sure. Which somehow included feeding lyrium to saarebas, bringing red lyrium into Qunari lands, and making gaatlok as if she were the Arigena.

All Weekes talks about is her authorized operation.

Source?

It's only her authorized operation, we see in Trespasser. What else was Weekes talking about in the OP? Qunari mating rituals?

He was talking about the group of qunari we fight in Trespasser and the fact that they are real Qunari who believe in the Qun. And that is why Hissrad eventually turns on you, because he is siding with his fellow Qunari. Weekes said nothing about any operations or if anyone was authorized to do anything.

[Dai Grepher]

Perhaps because they were Ben-Hassrath, not members of the Beresaad?

No, I mean the members of the Beresaad, like the dead Qunari we found. He was wearing some plate armor and some wicker baskets. That isn't full armor.

Sten's nightmare in Origins shows his fellow Qunari in full armor.

While the note at the Darvaraad refers to a Sten being present, we've seen Adaar use that term to refer to Bull during their first meeting, suggesting the word can be used for any commander of soldiers.

Not sure what this has to do with anything I wrote, but the gatekeeper writes that he will request a murder knife from his Sten. As for the Adaar, he or she may have been misusing the term out of ignorance. Iron Bull isn't a Sten.

Makes me wonder now if that's the reason why Sten introduces himself formally as "Sten of the Beresaad" in Origins, something they might do to distinguish them from potential Sten working under the Ben-Hassrath or elsewhere?

(Unless of course, Adaar being a non-native speaker of Qunlat simply got it wrong... which I'll concede is possible too)

Or maybe he's just being informative. Or there are different divisions in the Arishok branch. I think I remember reading something about navy units being called something else.

Probably.

[Dai Grepher]

Well Patrick Weekes and John Epler don't agree with you.

They both back me up 100% in the conference, as I already proved.

At 3:37 The Trespasser DLC: Goals are:
- Wrap up the Inquisitor's story
- Set up future of the franchise
 
Set up the future of the franchise has three elements. Eluvians, Qunari, Ancient Elves.
 
At 3:22 John Epler begins and says..
 
"We had a lot... the Dragon Age franchise has a lot of moving parts a lot of narrative elements, some of which we didn't really bring in Inquisition. We wanted to bring those back put them back on the table so we had Eluvians, magic mirrors that let you travel long distances, we had the Qunari, an invading force from across the sea that hates magic..."
 
So who are the Qunari being set up as for the future of the franchise? An invading force from across the see that hates magic.

He said the Qunari are an invading force from across the sea that hates magic. We saw this in Trespasser. So what's your point? We already established that those Viddasala commanded were real Qunari.

Who are the Qunari in the Trespasser DLC? An invading force from across the sea that hates magic.

No duh.

[Almostfaceman]

Ah no. The Temassran's are the priests. They have more influence over the meaning of the Qun than the Arishok or the Arigena. Viddasala was a priest. So she could in essence make up her own justifications, which is what she did in her letters in the Vir Dirthara and the Darvaarad.

However, the Triumvirate is to decide when to go to war. And they did not authorize any actions against the South, as they confirm in their letter in all worldstates.


No, that was the Arishok who does that.

 

Incorrect.

 

The primary symbol used to represent the Qunari as a people is a triangle, represented in the House of Tides icon showing the inevitable triumph of the Qun, which symbolizes the Qunari triumvirate of body, mind, and soul. The "body" is represented by the Arishok (the military), the "mind" by the Arigena (the craftsmen), and the "soul" by the Ariqun (the priests).[19] It is this triumvirate which governs all of Qunari society by acting as the three pillars or their three primary leaders in all matters—the Arishok (always male) who leads the armies, the Arigena (always female) who leads the craftsmen, and the Ariqun (either male or female) who leads the priesthood.[20] All three are the head of their respective "paths" and work in unison to complete the whole of Qunari society.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Qunari

[Almostfaceman]

They both back me up 100% in the conference, as I already proved.


He said the Qunari are an invading force from across the sea that hates magic. We saw this in Trespasser. So what's your point? We already established that those Viddasala commanded were real Qunari.


No duh.

 

Incorrect. You said "We all know that Par Vollen intends to invade one day. But there is ZERO to suggest that Dragon's Breath was part of any invasion plot. They plan to invade, just not during Trespasser or any time soon."

 

Plainly, Dragons Breath, the operation in Trespasser, is "an invading force from across the sea that hates magic."

[Almostfaceman]

 proved.
 

 

You keep using that word.

 

[Almostfaceman]

We already established 

 

Actually, you put forth an opinion. There was no "we" involved. Unless it's the royal "we". Are you royalty? 

[Gold Dragon]

All this circular arguing is giving me a headache.

 

And the Qun IS at war.

 

With Solas.

 

/thread

[Almostfaceman]

All this circular arguing is giving me a headache.

 

And the Qun IS at war.

 

With Solas.

 

/thread

 

Actually they smuggle in explosives to blow up every major governing and noble house in southern Thedas. They fight against Solas's forces, but, spurred by the events of the Breach, they set in motion a plan against southern Thedas. 

 

So it's not just a war with Solas. 

[BansheeOwnage]

... You probably shouldn't. I mean, that's probably the best way to discourage him or many other devs from visiting BSN entirely :[

Eh, they've already stopped visiting entirely. And this thread, though ridiculous, is still civil.

[PCThug]

This thread always makes me think of this clip   

[BansheeOwnage]

Weekes didn't mention Viddasala. You're still wrong on this.

 

 

Also, there were no Arigena craftsmen. The letter in the Darvaarad confirms that Viddasala was giving instructions to those making gaatlok. This proves that she was acting outside her role and the Qun. Only the Arigena should be making gaatlok, and in Trespasser Viddasala had inexperienced viddathari doing it.

Actually, it's been explained that though Qunari adhere to a role, they're aren't incapable of performing another if the situation calls for it. I believe the codex explains this at some point. If a baker needs to fight, she will. If a Viddasala or Hissrad crafts gaatlok when pressed, they are not going outside their role. You can have a problem with that if you want, but it's how the Qun works.

 

As for what I want, I would prefer that the Triumvirate really start a war with the South. I am for that. But nothing in Trespasser or Weekes' statements indicate that this was the case. All facts point to it being Viddasala acting without authorization.