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It's official, the Viddasala wasn't a rogue agent


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#1226
BansheeOwnage

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No, the Tamassrans don't decide anything arbitrarily. 

As Bull tells you, they discover your true aptitudes FIRST, then assign you to careers where you're bound to be more succesful.

Yes, they attempt to discover your aptitudes and then assign you a role where your abilities will be of use. Now, as Almostfaceman points out, this system is likely flawed and we have little information about it. Still, even if we assume the tamassrans are flawless in their evaluations, the main point is that you have no choice in your task.

 

You may be a good baker, but you cannot become a soldier because you want to. You will be a baker, or get brainwashed (even more), or you will die, or try to run away and likely die. Those are your options. You can't choose to do what you want to do, and you can't change careers because you don't end up liking your job, or get burnt out, or want to try something new.

 

Sure, you may actually like the job you were assigned, but that is just chance.

 

Edit: I made it to page 50, whooooooo! :wizard: :whistle: :P


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#1227
In Exile

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Here's the problem with this current line of discussion, from my own perspective:

A soldier is a soldier. The rank is irrelevant, because they're still a soldier. Contrary to references made earlier in the thread, just as an example here, I have been a soldier, a farmer, a construction worker and an automotive technician. I have also been a bard at Ren Fairs. All of these things because I was interested in doing so, and did so. If I were Qunari, I'd be reeducated, dead or Tal Vashoth by now. This path is not available to the Qunari. You are free to do what they tell you to do, and that's it, while I am free to choose to do what I want. In Qunari society, you are free to choose what you bake, but you will always be a baker. You may be free to choose what crops you grow, but you are still a farmer. If you want to be a musician, you're out of luck. If you want to be a baker, but you've been assigned to be a farmer, you're out of luck, short of the fact that you can bake your own stuff, maybe. For that, we don't have enough information, but the basic premise is the same, once you are assigned a role, you are free to choose to do that role, or face the consequences.


What makes you say you're free to choose what to bake or farm? We know you're not free to choose your rank in the army - it is assigned based on merit. Whether you bake bread or something else might be a decision made for you.

#1228
In Exile

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Actually, World of Thedas 2 muddles things more. For example, Sten's entry mentions he was Karasaad during the 9:12 attack on Qarinus. Then he became Sten and now is rumoured to be Arishok.

Interestingly, WoT 2 adds that young Sten was known to complain to the Arishok himself against direct assaults, judging that strategy useless to invade Tevinter, and suggested diverting more resources to information gathering.

Also, this (about the war in Seheron):

"An ailment the Qunari call asala-taar, or "soul sickness", spread among the ranks of the survivors. Both older, experienced soldiers as well as new members of the antaam were equally susceptible, and for every soldier who fell in battle, two more had to be sent back to Par Vollen for treatment. Most of those were reassigned among the priesthood or the workers and never returned to combat. The tamassrans struggled to keep up with the losses and petitioned the Ariqun to more aggressively seek out a cure for the illness. In the meantime, the antaam promoted and lost officers at astonishing rates".


But that's missing the point. The Qun is obviously nonsense when it comes to how people actually relate to their jobs. PTSD is something they deal with as a necessary consequence of their existence. But that doesn't mean people choose their reassigned role. The Qun decides for you whether you're going to bake from now on. And they then pretend all along your role was to bake.
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#1229
thesuperdarkone2

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WOOHOO 50 PAGES!!! THIS CALLS FOR A CELEBRATION!


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#1230
Dai Grepher

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^It's not 50 until you fill the whole page. This should help...

and the "soul" by the Ariqun (the priests).[19] It is this triumvirate which governs all of Qunari society by acting as the three pillars or their three primary leaders in all matters


Yeah, and that right there proves my point about the priests. The priests govern what the Qunari people think. Viddasala was a priest, which gave her a lot of control over interpretation of actions and what they meant in relation to the bigger picture. Not saying she decides what the Qun says, but she was able to deceive her followers into thinking that their actions were sanctioned.

http://dragonage.wik...isk_of_Saarebas

"We have learned from this place that there lived an elven mage who saw a great wrong and sacrificed all to right it. This mage made the Veil, which protects us from the Fade. This Veil stripped power from his rulers, who had treated their people with such excess that it makes the southern kings and queens seem staid.

Thus does every action carry rightness and all paths converge."

That last line proves how far outside the Qun she is. Now, there's a slight chance she's only referring the rightness of their own actions, but the statement "all paths converge" indicates that she is referring to the elven mage's actions. In which case she is endorsing the actions of a mage, without solid proof that he actually did this, and now she is having saarebas follow in his footsteps without understanding a thing about how this mage allegedly created the Veil.

And you think this was authorized by the Ariqun or the other members of the Triumvirate?
 

the Arishok (always male) who leads the armies,


Funny, I don't recall seeing the Arishok leading anything in Trespasser.
 

the Arigena (always female) who leads the craftsmen,


Viddasala had her own viddathari crafting gaatlok, even when they kept screwing up. A clear violation of the Qun.
 

and the Ariqun (either male or female) who leads the priesthood.[20] All three are the head of their respective "paths" and work in unison to complete the whole of Qunari society.


Didn't see the Ariqun either. And I find it strange that so many would question Viddasala if this were an official operation from on high. Wouldn't the Ariqun have prepared all these agents so they would just complete their tasks without any doubt in their minds that what they were doing was right? Why did Viddasala have to convince them? Why did Jerran think it was Viddasala's plan, and why did he put his life on the line to stop it if he believed in the Qun?
 

Plainly, Dragons Breath, the operation in Trespasser, is "an invading force from across the sea that hates magic."


Epler said nothing about the Dragon's Breath operation. He only said one of the goals was to introduce the Qunari, an invading force from across the sea. That says nothing of them or Dragon's breath being part of an official invasion.
 

Actually, it's been explained that though Qunari adhere to a role, they're aren't incapable of performing another if the situation calls for it.


That's a different issue. A woman cannot fight in a war. But if she is attacked she can defend herself. If she sees another being attacked, she can protect that other. A Qunari can also be reassessed for a new role if he or she becomes less capable of fulfilling their current one. However, this is different from what each person's role is. A priest cannot decide to be a warrior, for example. It is the role of those in the Arigena branch to make gaatlok. A priest cannot decide to make gaatlok or instruct those not of the Arigena branch to do it. Yet Viddasala had her own agents do exactly that. This is another piece of evidence that the operation was not authorized. Had this been an official invasion, the Arigena branch would have handled the creation of gaatlok with the dragon's venom.
 

I believe the codex explains this at some point. If a baker needs to fight, she will. If a Viddasala or Hissrad crafts gaatlok when pressed, they are not going outside their role. You can have a problem with that if you want, but it's how the Qun works.


No it isn't. If a Viddasala needs gaatlok, she requests it of the Arigena branch, and the Arigena supplies it. If the Viddasala needed warriors, she would not be able to instruct women to engage in warfare and still be adhering to the Qun.
 

Wait what? It was full armor, that is not an ultra heavy armor does not make it incomplete..... Ah, nevermind,


Compared to what we have seen Qunari warriors wear in the past, that isn't full armor. It has gaps. So it isn't full. Besides, Bull's comment is his interpretation anyway. He might be mistaken.

#1231
Dai Grepher

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I've glanced at the counter argument.


Glanced? So you admit to not having read it in detail?

We've listened to the interview, multiple times (I've listened to it at least five). We know what we heard. We don't have to prove otherwise.


Right, you don't have to prove otherwise. That's my job. You have to prove that he said what you think he said. Not only has your side failed to do so, but I disproved your side by going through Weekes' statements line by line and showing that he never said Viddasala was authorized. He only said the Qunari we fought in the DLC were not from outside the Qun. They were real Qunari. That doesn't mean they were authorized.

The burden of proof is on those that DON'T think the Viddisala was authorized. Weekes doesn't actually have to open his mouth. It's in Trespasser.


No, the burden of proof is on the side making the claim. Your claim is not supported by Weekes' statements. As for Trespasser, the game itself proves my side right.

You're pretty much alone on this one. That's your right. It takes courage to stand alone. Good luck to you on that.


Thank you for the compliment and the discussion.

Thank you. With all the context, now we know that Qunari warriors not having much armor is not exactly weird for them, unless they're definitely going to battle (that is weird for other Thedosians, who like their soldiers in full armor as often as possible, is a different matter). Given that the soldiers in Tresspasser were tasked with protecting the operations and not lead the invasion themselves, it makes sense they wore light armor... or didn't they? Barring Sten and the Qunari Inquisitor, who wore Southern armor, the Qunari seen in Tresspasser are the most armored we've seen in any DA material.




Their armor in Trespasser was not full armor.

Does it not strike you as odd how how so many people have taken those words in precisely the same way?


No. I have seen quite a few debates that involve many people on one side of the issue all interpreting a creator quote in a way they think supports their theory.

If everyone else in a room sees a painting that you do not, that does not mean it's not there, it means you've probably got your eyes closed or are looking in the wrong direction.


Your example presumes the painting's existence as fact. In the case of this discussion, it's just people desperately wanting to be affirmed in their preferred theory.

We've repeatedly pointed out that the context of what both Weekes and Epler show the writers intent that these were real Qunari operating under orders from Par Vollen


The statements show that they were real Qunari, which is obvious and a fact I never denied. But you have not shown any statement from Weekes or Epler that those real Qunari were operating under orders from Par Vollen when they participated in Dragon's Breath. In fact, Epler referred to "the Qunari leader" as being at the end of the DLC, which refers to Viddasala. That indicates she was the one giving orders, not Par Vollen.

and constantly had you deflect the issue that the writers clarified they did not want these to be a rogue faction.


You aren't reading my posts. I always stated that they were not a rogue faction. The main issue here is what Weekes considers rogue. Those on your side believe that any Qunari acting without authorization is rogue, and so because Weekes said the idea of a rogue faction was dropped, it automatically means all Qunari were authorized. But I pointed out that your side's premise is false. Just because a Qunari acts without authorization does not mean they are not real Qunari or that they are instantly rogue. I then provided examples from the canon. Sten. Arishok. Tallis. Weekes' definition of "rogue", according to that interview, is Tal-Vashoth or Vashoth who are outside the Qun.

Not only has your side not provided evidence to support itself, but your argument that Weekes backs you up has been refuted, and you have yet to even form a retort to this rebuttal.

Your constant denial of these facts from the words of the people who gave us the DLC is bizarre, when even they refute your argument.


They don't refute my argument, and they don't support yours. But I proved that the conference statements support my argument. No one has refuted this either.

#1232
Dai Grepher

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The Qunari are pleased because the Inquisition has dealt with those various problems for them, eliminating any issues that would bog down their eventual invasion of the South without any collateral damage to Qunari forces. Why lose your forces taking down Venatori or having to rebuild a burned down Denerim, when you can hand the information to the Inquisition to carry out the Qunari's will, risking them nothing in the process?


Yes, and the point is that the Inquisition is not a threat to order or the rest of the world, and the Triumvirate knows this. That is why they keep entrusting the Inquisition with tasks that the Ben-Hassrath isn't up to completing. This is why Viddasala's claims about the Qunari leaving the South to curb the Inquisitor's magic are lies. The Triumvirate did no such thing. It supported the Inquisition's actions. If this had been an authorized operation, then the one leading the Qunari in that case would have told the Inquisitor, "You have done well restoring the South to order thus far, Bas-Salit'an. Now the Triumvirate would have you see this task through to its logical conclusion; bringing the South under the Qun."

Also, about Denerim. Why would the Qunari rebuild Denerim after letting it burn? They would just clear it out and build something better. The point of letting Denerim burn down would be to make Ferelden weaker against their invasion. Instead, the Qunari worked to protect Denerim, and the mission can be a success even with their direct help.

The fact that Viddasala had to make stuff up to justify the attack is proof that it wasn't authorized. The Triumvirate needs no justification for conquest.

Viddasala's meaning was that they thought the South would either destroy itself or curb it's own magic if left to their own devices, whatever the outcome of the Mage-Templar War happened to be. At this point, the conflict didn't threaten them and wasn't considered a problem, who cares if everyone in the South died?


She said nothing of the mage/templar war.

The emergence of the Breach however proved that magic in the south was simply too dangerous to be left unchecked, especially as it was the second magical explosion had occurred within the past half-decade. It proved to the Qunari that it was not in the good of Thedas for them to standby and watch from afar, lest their non-intervention fail to prevent magic from threatening the world again.


They don't care about magical explosions, so long as they aren't happening against Qunari. The Breach was their concern, and in DA:I they only sent spies to gain information about the Breach, not to plan any kind of invasion strategy.

Bull's mission was to infiltrate the Inquisition and report back to his superiors the means of their operations, he tells us this in his first conversation. He never said his purpose was to prevent the invasion from taking place, nor that he has the rank or seniority to make that decision. He merely hoped that his reports would ease some minds back home, not convince them to call anything off.


He said that he was sent to send information back so those in Par Vollen could decided if they needed to launch and invasion or not. That means the action of invading depended upon no one doing anything to solve the problem of the Breach. They wanted to know if the Breach was something that they would have to solve themselves.

The Exalted Council has a lot of major players from the South in attendance, the Divine, clerics from the Chantry, political ambassadors, the Inquisitions entire top brass...it's the perfect venue for the Qunari to cut off the head of every single power in one fell swoop. The game even tells us this directly when they discuss how terrifying it was that Dragon's Breath nearly succeeded, with even Leliana stating that wiping out all opposition at once was tactically a brilliant move.


Clerics are nobodies. Ambassadors are nobodies. Each possible Divine is likely to survive an attack, which means her successors are as well. Cullen and Josephine are the only ones at risk. They would have to hit every court across Southern Thedas, which isn't even possible. There are hundreds of noble houses across Ferelden and Orlais alone, not even counting The Free Marches or Nevarra.

Dragon's Breath had zero chance of success, even at the Winter Palace alone. Ignoring Solas' involvement, the Inquisition had its own loyal scouts, an army of guards, a Seeker, Friends of Red Jenny, a mind-reading spirit, a skilled player of the Grand Game, and possibly a former ben-hassrath. Any one of them could have spotted strange barrels being placed all over, or in Cole's case, read their mind and sensed their desire to hurt people. Also, what happens when Dorian goes looking for more wine?

Even Leliana stating it was tactically a brilliant move? Leliana is dumb. You know that right? And as I recall, she only said it was what Corypheus should have done after the conclave.

The alliance is temporary and not bound in any agreement save for that the Qunari find it a useful tool. Despite what you seem to think, they're not going to honour it any more than the Llomeryn Accords (a bit of paper to them) when they invade.


I'm sure they will discard the alliance one day, but my point was what you just admitted. The Qunari find it a useful tool. Therefore, Viddasala was lying and acting against Par Vollen's interests.

The Qunari left the South alone hoping that they'd find a more Qunari way of dealing with their mages, believing that the carelessness with which they treated them would eventually destroy them. The war was proof that the South could no longer be trusted to control their mages, the Breach being created by magic cemented this as fact to the Qunari, that they needed to step in now and do something about it.


And how does that make sense in a Divine Vivienne world state where the templars were sided with? The Circles are back and better than ever. Also, ancient Tevinter magister rips sky a new one = Blame the South? How did the Qunari arrive at that conclusion?

As I wrote above, Viddasala said nothing about the war. It was only about the Breach, and on that she was lying. Iron Bull confirmed he was sent to gather and send back information on the Breach and what the South was doing about it. With the Breach and its apparent cause corrected, the Qunari would have no reason to invade other than the usual one of the Qun being spread throughout the world. Meaning, Viddasala's excuse that invasion was happening because of the Breach or the Inquisitor are lies. In fact, Viddasala probably suggested invasion when the Breach first appeared, claiming it would be easy to take the South when it is in such disarray. The Triumvirate likely rejected that idea and wanted to gather information first. Then when things looked to be going well (the Breach was sealed within months), the Triumvirate not only decided not to invade, it suggested forming an alliance. This is probably what sent Viddasala off the deep end. So she began plotting to go around the Triumvirate.

Bull states that they want to invade and Viddasala states part of the plan was to eventually remove all their leaders, how is that a contradiction? You assume that the invasion was meant to be immediate following the Breach, rather than something that they were gearing up for in preparation to strike.


Bull said they want to see if invasion is called for, not that they wanted to invade at that time. Just because they want to invade eventually doesn't mean they wanted to during Trespasser. Viddasala contradicts Bull when she says that the Qunari decided their action (kill leaders and invade) when they first saw the Breach. That is a lie. The action they decided on was to send spies to gather information to see if invasion was necessary to correct the problem.

The reason that Bull was sent to the Inquisition because they were the only group doing anything about the Breach, as well as having someone with a magical glowing hand that could seal rifts. Compared to the other groups in the south at the time DAI starts, the Inquisition were the best chance to close the Breach and the Inquisitor's ability was a necessary evil the Qunari could tolerate.


And entrust Qunari lives with, and ally with if the mission is successful, and entrust more missions to for the next two years.

Still, we can gather from Viddasala that not all Qunari were happy with the Inquisitor running around unchecked, as it was our task to close the Breach and we fulfilled that role, yet the mark was still a threat to the entire world because of the power it held.


The power to close rifts. That is an awful thing? Not awful enough that the Triumvirate keeps sending requests to the one wielding it.

#1233
Dai Grepher

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Why monologue her plans to us if she wants to kill us? Because the Mark is going to kill us anyway, something she even points out. Even if we aren't killed by her forces, we're still a dead man walking in her eyes and not in any real position to tell anyone else.


Unless we survive her forces and leave the Vir Dirthara back to the Winter Palace where we can expose everything she said, including her implication of the Triumvirate. And what of the Inquisitor's companions, one of whom can be Divine? They are in no danger of dying from the mark. They can testify to what she said as well. The point is, Viddasala seems awfully chatty for someone who has been tasked with a covert operation that the Triumvirate doesn't want leading back to them if it doesn't work.

This is speculation and your opinion. It is not fact, nor does it correlate with what the writer's said.


I didn't present it as fact. I am merely pointing out that your side's idea that this operation was something the Triumvirate could plausibly deny if it failed is contradicted by Viddasala telling you what the plan entailed and that the Qunari leaders decided on it. I also added that it seems to me that Viddasala is trying to implicate the Triumvirate in Dragon's Breath, rather than provide cover for them to deny it should she fail.

We were never told it was called off.


We were never told it was on either, regarding the Breach. We were only told they were investigating the situation.

Bull never says his reports will prevent an invasion taking place, just that he hoped it might.


It doesn't matter what Bull hoped. What matters is the reason Bull was sent. He was sent to see if invasion was needed to correct the Breach. The Breach was sealed. That means invasion was not necessary to correct the Breach, nor was invasion the initial reaction. The initial reaction was to learn the situation. Thus, Viddasala was lying when she said invasion was their answer to the Breach. And yes, invasion will come one day, but for the usual reason of conquering the world, not because of the Breach or because the South has failed to curb an Inquisitor that the Triumvirate eagerly trusts to handle various missions.

I'm sorry, did you play even Trespasser?


Yes.

It was made very clear that Dragon's Breath was critical to the invasion plan's success. Hence the reason Viddasala lamented that it's failure was the reason why they needed to take "the way of blades" and launch a conventional invasion, because they'd failed to perform a tactical precision strike to remove the majority of their opposition in the South.


And where was this conventional invasion? Viddasala lied, and you believed her.

There weren't any Qunari armour assets in DAO, nor were they any ways to show them with horns, hence why we see a surprising amount of this supposedly "rare" trait popping up all over in Ferelden. For that matter, there weren't any canon Warden armours until DA2 either.


Duncan's armor. Sophia's armor.

For all we know other dreams can influence the dream or see it differently, which as the Warden has never seen a Qunari with horns, nor Qunari armour, is why they're hornless and in generic full-plate in that nightmare?


The ones impersonating the warriors were demons. They read Sten's mind and took the image he remembered. It was like this for all allies with nightmares that involved real people. The Warden sees exactly how Goldanna looks before meeting her in real life, and this is because of Alistair's memory of her.

Also, it is likely Sten's comrades did not have horns. It is stated that the hornless Qunari are sent to foreign lands more often because they blend in easier.

Save for Sten who is canonically hornless, we probably should take their depiction in Origins with a grain of salt.


Were bare chests beyond the tech of Origins as well? Or maybe Bull was just mistaken. Or maybe BioWare didn't care to be consistent with what Bull said in banter.

Bull isn't a Sten, but he does carry out the duties of one by leading the Chargers, fitting the role of an infantry platoon commander as a Sten would.


But as a spy. His superiors do not consider him a Sten.

#1234
Dai Grepher

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Which is what I was getting at, that there are Sten serving under different positions in various capacities. Are all guards in highly secret Qunari facilities members of the antaam, or are they instead members of the Ben-Hassrath that serve as guards. Bull might be a spy, but even when he was in Seheron his job involved leading troops, so we know they are trained to fight and serve as ad hoc soldiers.


We don't know what the ranks are for Ben-Hassrath, so it's a moot point. Also, I think Bull's backstory is that he was law enforcement on Seheron until he cracked. Then he was reassigned to spying in the South.

I've watched the conference and I found nothing there that even comes close to backing your argument up whatsoever, especially when it comes to anything that would imply Viddasala was carrying out a rogue operation.


Did you read my post where I pointed out each comment, the time it was said, and how it supports my argument? Epler referred to the "Qunari leader" being at the end of the DLC. This shows there was only one leader of this group, not several as would be the case if this had been an official operation.

They spend more time in the panel talking about the aborted plan for Qunari Templars, rather than anything that denies the authenticity of this being a legit invasion.


The aborted idea of templars (which actually did end up in the final product anyway ironically) is proof in itself that it was not a legitimate invasion attempt. If the Triumvirate needed templars to combat the southern mages, then not having this as the plan anymore means the Triumvirate is back to having no plan to combat the southern mages. Meaning, no legitimate invasion.

The only time they do bring up the Qunari is when they give the quote about them being "an invading force from across the sea who hate magic".

How does them using the words "invading force" in relation to the Qunari, not tip you off that this was an invasion attempt that was obviously planned? Especially when we've had the hints dropped about them wanting to invade for three games.


Because they are referring to the Qunari we fought in the game. And just because they were trying to invade does not mean they were authorized to do so. Nothing in that statement suggests it was "obviously planned" by the Triumvirate. We've had hints of Par Vollen wanting to invade, but just because some Qunari attack doesn't automatically mean it's an invasion. Otherwise the invasion started in Origins with Sten, or again in DA2 with the Arishok.

#1235
Almostfaceman

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Funny, I don't recall seeing the Arishok leading anything in Trespasser.

 

Oh, so the Arishok and the rest of the members of the Triumvirate have to actually be there wherever the Qunari are carrying out an operation. 

 

Yeah, that's crazy and doesn't make any sense. 



#1236
Almostfaceman

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Yeah, and that right there proves my point about the priests. The priests govern what the Qunari people think. Viddasala was a priest, which gave her a lot of control over interpretation of actions and what they meant in relation to the bigger picture. Not saying she decides what the Qun says, but she was able to deceive her followers into thinking that their actions were sanctioned.
 

 

Here we go with the head canon again. There's no evidence anywhere of her deceiving any of her mooks, or of her being in a situation where she'd have to deceive her mooks. 

 

Pictures or it didn't happen. 



#1237
Dai Grepher

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Oh, so the Arishok and the rest of the members of the Triumvirate have to actually be there wherever the Qunari are carrying out an operation. 
 
Yeah, that's crazy and doesn't make any sense.


Well I would think the Arishok would want to be there for an official invasion, don't you?

#1238
Almostfaceman

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Well I would think the Arishok would want to be there for an official invasion, don't you?

 

Calls for speculation, there are plenty of examples of leaders leading nations far away from any military theaters and vice versa. 



#1239
Dai Grepher

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Here we go with the head canon again. There's no evidence anywhere of her deceiving any of her mooks, or of her being in a situation where she'd have to deceive her mooks. 
 
Pictures or it didn't happen.


Try clicking the link you deleted out of the post you quoted before replying to it.

#1240
Dai Grepher

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Calls for speculation, there are plenty of examples of leaders leading nations far away from any military theaters and vice versa.


But this is supposed to be a wide-scale invasion of the entire South. Shouldn't the Arishok oversee the opening attack that makes it all possible? Shouldn't he have commanders overseeing its various aspects as well? Shouldn't the Ariqun have things worked out with the viddathari and Qunari who are questioning the Viddasala? Shouldn't the Arigena be making the gaatlok?

#1241
Almostfaceman

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Try clicking the link you deleted out of the post you quoted before replying to it.

 

I did, again, there's no evidence that she deceived her mooks. 



#1242
Almostfaceman

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But this is supposed to be a wide-scale invasion of the entire South. Shouldn't the Arishok oversee the opening attack that makes it all possible? Shouldn't he have commanders overseeing its various aspects as well? Shouldn't the Ariqun have things worked out with the viddathari and Qunari who are questioning the Viddasala? Shouldn't the Arigena be making the gaatlok?

 

Well, you're projecting what you think should happen. Again, that's called head canon. 

 

And therein lies your problem with your whole argument. You insert head canon then manufacture problems where they don't exist. 



#1243
Giantdeathrobot

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Well I would think the Arishok would want to be there for an official invasion, don't you?

 

Where's "there"? The middle of Halamshiral? The Deep Roads? Some abandonned castle? A faraway Ben-Hassrath fortress? Because those are the locations we actually visit in Trespasser. Were he leading an invasion, the Arishok has no business being "there".


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#1244
Dai Grepher

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I did, again, there's no evidence that she deceived her mooks.


So you're back to ignoring facts? The letter shows her praising Fen'Harel and then telling her followers that all actions carry rightness and all paths converge. Whereas the Qun teaches there is only right action; following the Qun.

#1245
Dai Grepher

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Well, you're projecting what you think should happen. Again, that's called head canon. 
 
And therein lies your problem with your whole argument. You insert head canon then manufacture problems where they don't exist.


I'm following your fanfiction to it's logical conclusion. You say the invasion was official. So where are all the officials?

I agree that no problem exists here though. The game was clear that Dragon's Breath wasn't authorized. Weekes and Epler confirm that.

#1246
Dai Grepher

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Where's "there"? The middle of Halamshiral? The Deep Roads? Some abandonned castle? A faraway Ben-Hassrath fortress? Because those are the locations we actually visit in Trespasser. Were he leading an invasion, the Arishok has no business being "there".


The Darvaarad would be the logical spot, since that was where the Viddasala was working from.

But even if the Arishok was among some large fleet off the coast of Denerim or something, why wasn't this ever mentioned in the game? Where are all the lesser officers that would serve as commanders and unit leaders?

#1247
Almostfaceman

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So you're back to ignoring facts? The letter shows her praising Fen'Harel and then telling her followers that all actions carry rightness and all paths converge. Whereas the Qun teaches there is only right action; following the Qun.

 

Ew, it actually doesn't say that at all. All it does is reinforce the badness of magic, which is in alignment with the Qun. The only thing they liked about Solas's actions was that it was good that Solas made using magic a lot harder. 

 

Mages under the Qun are treated as bad, barely necessary tools that are cursed from birth. 

 

So again, there's no evidence that the Viddasala had her mooks turn against the Triumvirate. 



#1248
Almostfaceman

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I agree that no problem exists here though. 

 

Actually you aren't. You think the Triumvirate should be hangin' with the homies on the front lines. Nothing I've said, ever, indicates that I think the Triumvirate should be hangin' with the homies on the front lines of the invasion. 



#1249
Almostfaceman

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Where are all the lesser officers that would serve as commanders and unit leaders?

 

And here we have more head canon. 



#1250
Almostfaceman

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So you're back to ignoring facts? 

 

You're definitely back to making them up. 

 

Dai Grepher head canon party! YEAH!

 

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