1580 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

Does the president have to be on the ground in a theater of War?

Is the President Qunari?

Did Winston Churchill actually go to battlefields, or did he issue his orders from the relative security of his office. A leader, especially one this important, isn't required to be in the field at all. They may choose to be, or may want to be, such as the Arishok in DA 2, but they are not required to be there.

Qunari lead from the front. But even if the Arishok wanted to command from a base, the Darvaarad would have been the logical location. But we don't see him anywhere, not on the front lines, not at the HQ. There are also no reports of him or any antaam units being sighted anywhere close to the borders of any southern nation. He is completely absent.

So how do you know this is a sanctioned invasion? You have only what Viddasala claims.

Here's the thing, when you assign an underling a task, you choose them because you believe they are capable of carrying it out, and with the presumption that you won't have to hold their hand all the way through.

Correct. And the Qunari choose those who fit the role. Was it Viddasala's role to lead an invasion effort?

This isn't fanfiction, this is based on links provided in the OP, and, ironically enough, by you, although they don't say what you're wishing they said when you provided them.

You misinterpret what Weekes said. That is all.

We can only conclude that all those War Table missions were carried out by rogue agents who deceived real Inquisition members.

Did the Inquisitor authorize Cullen and Leliana to hide the Qunari body and not tell the Council?

Corypheus' accusations that scouts and saboteurs attacked his camps under the Inquisitor's orders are rubbish. Was the Inquisitor there, setting fire to the tents? No. And were those agents members of the inner circle? No. They were Leliana's agents, which, of course, means that she was acting on her own with a plan she herself created to save Thedas from evil magic, with no authorization from the Inquisitor

The Inquisition declared Corypheus to be an enemy. That's different from the Qunari, who are at least in a non-aggression pact with the South, or at most allies of the Inquisition.

Did the Inquisitor authorize the elven scout to assault the palace servant? Did the ruler of Orlais authorize the palace servant to place a gaatlok barrel near the tavern?

How can this thread be over 50 pages long?

Because the issue is debatable.

Weekes said it was offical.  Therefore it is offical.

No he didn't.

[Illyria]

Because the issue is debatable.


No he didn't.

 

YES. HE. DID.

 

Look:

 

'We own this. The Qunari aren't being used anywhere but in our games. So if we're gonna say the Qunari are gonna start a war, let's have the Qunari start a war, and let's own it. And in that case, the only reasonable outcome was that if you hadn't gotten Iron Bull out of the Qun, it made no sense for him to do anything but turn on you. It's one of those things where, you know, I don't know if we would have done things differently if we had known 'Oh we definitely want to have the Qunari in the Trespasser DLC, and what does that do for Iron Bull?', if we had known that years and years ahead of time, if we would have changed Iron Bull's plot somewhere, had him start as a Tal'Vashoth, or something like that, but I really like that choice. I love that we gave you a choice, and that it didn't immediately have a white hat and a black hat on it. And that it was a choice that had teeth; I love those, because it was really interesting after Trespasser shipped, watching the reaction to those. Because there were many people who were surprised and very unhappy and said 'This shouldn't have happened, even though I made Bull loyal to the Qun, he still should have respected me and not turned on me,' and there were a few people who would say that, but everytime someone said that, everyone else would turn and look at them and go 'What did you think was going to happen? You did a plot and told this guy specifically to be loyal to the Qun, so yeah, when the Qunari come... You did a plot that told him to stay on their side,' so really, there was no other way for us to do that.'

 

Actual words from the mouth of the writer.  The lead writer of Dragon Age.  The writer of The Iron Bull.  The writer of Trespasser.

 

There's no debate here.

[midnight tea]

YES. HE. DID.

 

-snip-

 

Ah, the amount of times we all brought the exact same quote...

 

What was that Qunari pamphlet Iron Bull mentiond to Blackwall? ..."Digging Holes Just to Fill Them Back Up Again"?

[Dai Grepher]

YES. HE. DID.
 
Look:
 
'We own this. The Qunari aren't being used anywhere but in our games. So if we're gonna say the Qunari are gonna start a war, let's have the Qunari start a war, and let's own it. And in that case, the only reasonable outcome was that if you hadn't gotten Iron Bull out of the Qun, it made no sense for him to do anything but turn on you. It's one of those things where, you know, I don't know if we would have done things differently if we had known 'Oh we definitely want to have the Qunari in the Trespasser DLC, and what does that do for Iron Bull?', if we had known that years and years ahead of time, if we would have changed Iron Bull's plot somewhere, had him start as a Tal'Vashoth, or something like that, but I really like that choice. I love that we gave you a choice, and that it didn't immediately have a white hat and a black hat on it. And that it was a choice that had teeth; I love those, because it was really interesting after Trespasser shipped, watching the reaction to those. Because there were many people who were surprised and very unhappy and said 'This shouldn't have happened, even though I made Bull loyal to the Qun, he still should have respected me and not turned on me,' and there were a few people who would say that, but everytime someone said that, everyone else would turn and look at them and go 'What did you think was going to happen? You did a plot and told this guy specifically to be loyal to the Qun, so yeah, when the Qunari come... You did a plot that told him to stay on their side,' so really, there was no other way for us to do that.'
 
Actual words from the mouth of the writer.  The lead writer of Dragon Age.  The writer of The Iron Bull.  The writer of Trespasser.
 
There's no debate here.

All he said was that they were real Qunari, not that Dragon's Breath was official. Which is what you claimed in the post I was replying to.

The Qunari that attacked Kirkwall in DA2 were real Qunari as well. But they were not authorized to do what they did.

[In Exile]

Qunari lead from the front. But even if the Arishok wanted to command from a base, the Darvaarad would have been the logical location. But we don't see him anywhere, not on the front lines, not at the HQ. There are also no reports of him or any antaam units being sighted anywhere close to the borders of any southern nation. He is completely absent.

 

Where do you get this nonsense from? Even in the assault in Kirkwall, the Arishok does... exactly the opposite. The only time we confront him is in the throne room - the vanguard is actually principally composed of disposable viddathari. More to the point, even if the Arishok were to grip that idiot ball as tight as Cailan and fight on the front lines, that doesn't actually mean the scheme in Trespasser is the front line. This was a Ben Hassrath plot, not a conventional invasion by the Antaam. The Arishok would be on the actual front lines, not pointlessly overseeing a covert operation run by a part of the Qun he is not in charge over. 

[In Exile]

All he said was that they were real Qunari, not that Dragon's Breath was official. Which is what you claimed in the post I was replying to.

 

He never used the world "real" in front of Qunari. He only calls them the Qunari. 

[IllustriousT]

He never used the world "real" in front of Qunari. He only calls them the Qunari. 

 

The "real" Qunari comes from this statement:

 

 

"and every time... We tried to talk ourselves into that for a while, like, 'Oh Bull wouldn't do this, they're not the real Qunari, they're an offshoot,' and it just got so toothless. It got to a point where we were like 'No, really, who wants to play a game where you are fighting the offshoot of the offshoot of the offshoot.'"

 

 

Which, to most of us, we interpret as all Qunari present in Trespasser must then be the "real" Qunari - therefore, not a rogue faction or an unauthorized group.  

 

Dai Insists that the Qunari are being used as a weapon by Viddasala, a group of soldiers that do not realize they are following an unauthorized mission, and therefore are still "real" Qunari. Viddasala on the other hand is no longer working within the Qun because she is acting of her own accord, but since Weekes did not mention her specifically, her role is therefore able to be interpreted as being unauthorized. Whereas most of us kind of lump her in with the Qunari Weekes speaks of. 

 

That is where the argument fails for me and enters the zone of pointless, because its difficult to debate interpretations as we all know. Weekes exclusion of remarking specifically on Viddasala's mission has convinced Dai that she is not part of the group that Weekes refers too, and Epler's statement that she is a "Qunari Leader" convinced him that she has assumed the highest possible position in using these "real" Qunari forces as weapons to her cause. She is a Qunari leader, not because she is following the Qun, but because she leads Qunari. 

 

Anyway, I understand it...I don't agree with it, due to my own interpretations of Weekes statement..but I understand why Dai would interpret it that way. 

[Almostfaceman]

People have now resorted to drawing random comparisons between real life wars and videogame conflicts, ignoring both have entirely incomparable contexts. Not satisfied, they're nitpicking the guy's posts and applying a twisted logic when interpreting each and every line of what he said.

All this simply to prove he can't be right.


Not to prove him wrong. To prove he can't be right.



Wow. People can grow up in body, but remain forever the same inside their minds. Too bad I'm not a psychiatrist or the thread would make an excellent case study for a paper.

 

Unless you have something to add about why they're incomparable contexts, you're just standing on the side lines throwing out unsupported generalities and not adding anything of weight to the discussion. 

 

So prove why the Arishok, or any other member of the Triumvirate, would have to be at the front lines and can't or won't delegate subordinates in authorized operations. Put up, or shut up. 

 

Grepher simply made a statement that couldn't be supported and it was correctly pointed out. 

[Almostfaceman]

All he said was that they were real Qunari, not that Dragon's Breath was official. Which is what you claimed in the post I was replying to.

The Qunari that attacked Kirkwall in DA2 were real Qunari as well. But they were not authorized to do what they did.

 

Of course he said they were official, because he put "the real Qunari" in context as not being an "offshoot" or "rogue". 

 

This easily makes sense of the situation where a Qun-loyal Iron Bull ceases to follow and take orders from the Inquisitor. 

[Dabrikishaw]

The "real" Qunari comes from this statement:

 

 

"and every time... We tried to talk ourselves into that for a while, like, 'Oh Bull wouldn't do this, they're not the real Qunari, they're an offshoot,' and it just got so toothless. It got to a point where we were like 'No, really, who wants to play a game where you are fighting the offshoot of the offshoot of the offshoot.'"

 

 

Which, to most of us, we interpret as all Qunari present in Trespasser must then be the "real" Qunari - therefore, not a rogue faction or an unauthorized group.  

 

Dai Insists that the Qunari are being used as a weapon by Viddasala, a group of soldiers that do not realize they are following an unauthorized mission, and therefore are still "real" Qunari. Viddasala on the other hand is no longer working within the Qun because she is acting of her own accord, but since Weekes did not mention her specifically, her role is therefore able to be interpreted as being unauthorized. Whereas most of us kind of lump her in with the Qunari Weekes speaks of. 

 

That is where the argument fails for me and enters the zone of pointless, because its difficult to debate interpretations as we all know. Weekes exclusion of remarking specifically on Viddasala's mission has convinced Dai that she is not part of the group that Weekes refers too, and Epler's statement that she is a "Qunari Leader" convinced him that she has assumed the highest possible position in using these "real" Qunari forces as weapons to her cause. She is a Qunari leader, not because she is following the Qun, but because she leads Qunari. 

 

Anyway, I understand it...I don't agree with it, due to my own interpretations of Weekes statement..but I understand why Dai would interpret it that way. 

The problem I (and several others) have with Dai's interpretation is how unbelievable it's gotten. This one non-Qunari is able to dupe the entirety of her army and leadership into an unauthorized mission against a major power of the South?

[ModernAcademic]

Unless you have something to add about why they're incomparable contexts, you're just standing on the side lines throwing out unsupported generalities and not adding anything of weight to the discussion.

So prove why the Arishok, or any other member of the Triumvirate, would have to be at the front lines and can't or won't delegate subordinates in authorized operations. Put up, or shut up.

Grepher simply made a statement that couldn't be supported and it was correctly pointed out.

Watch your tone. You're not speaking to your friends and family. This is a public forum.

Second, I've already posted my analysis and my opinions on the matter in this thread. Several times, actually.

And third, there's no reason to continue discussing the issue of the Viddasala at this point because first, the issue is no longer the subject of the discussion. It's whether ONE guy will give up his argument. It's become what other threads tend to become when people stop discussing and begin trying to prove they're right and the other is wrong at all cost: infighting.
There are people being stupid on purpose. Therefore, other people who are watching the fight unfold will comment on the level of stupidity being displayed. And second, all information about the thread's main topic has already been posted for appreciation. At this point, it's just being posted over and over again for the sake of fighting ONE guy, NOT for productive discussion.

Lastly, you've lost your mind if you think you can tell someone to shut up. Get lost.

[Almostfaceman]

Watch your tone. You're not speaking to your friends and family. This is a public forum.

Second, I've already posted my analysis and my opinions on the matter in this thread. Several times, actually.

And third, there's no reason to continue discussing the issue of the Viddasala at this point because first, the issue is no longer the subject of the discussion. It's whether ONE guy will give up his argument. It's become what other threads tend to become when people stop discussing and begin trying to prove they're right and the other is wrong at all cost: infighting.
There are people being stupid on purpose. Therefore, other people who are watching the fight unfold will comment on the level of stupidity being displayed. And second, all information about the thread's main topic has already been posted for appreciation. At this point, it's just being posted over and over again for the sake of fighting ONE guy, NOT for productive discussion.

Lastly, you've lost your mind if you think you can tell someone to shut up. Get lost.

 

So you've got no evidence that the Arishok has to be in the front lines or anywhere near the operation of Dragon's Breath. It's a legitimate point of discussion, Dai Grepher brought it up and nobody made him do so. 

 

It's hilarious you're bringing up tone as you call people stupid. The lack of self-awareness is interesting. 

 

If you think the conversation serves no further purpose, the logical thing to do would be to stop participating. Or even report the thread to a mod if you think there's some legitimate problem. 

[Dai Grepher]

Where do you get this nonsense from?

Sten.

https://youtu.be/RAY...VDQY?t=1h37m24s

@1:37:24 he tells Zevran about a Crow from Antiva who was hired by Tevinter to assassinate their Kithshok. The woman thought the Kithshok would have stayed within the safety of their fortifications. She was ignorant of the fact that their Kithshok handled all trade at the ports, and she didn't expect they would put themselves in a vulnerable position like that, or rather she believed they would send those "less important" to complete the task.

Sten is also a unit leader. In personal banter he tells the Warden that when the Qunari invade again he will not look for him on the battlefield.

Even in the assault in Kirkwall, the Arishok does... exactly the opposite. The only time we confront him is in the throne room - the vanguard is actually principally composed of disposable viddathari.

The Arishok led them. Just because he had units split up strategically doesn't mean he wasn't at the vanguard. He can also agree to a personal duel with Hawke.

More to the point, even if the Arishok were to grip that idiot ball as tight as Cailan and fight on the front lines, that doesn't actually mean the scheme in Trespasser is the front line. This was a Ben Hassrath plot, not a conventional invasion by the Antaam. The Arishok would be on the actual front lines, not pointlessly overseeing a covert operation run by a part of the Qun he is not in charge over.

Yet there were some antaam soldiers among these agents, and Viddasala gave orders to one of them to wait in the elvhen ruins for the chance to invade the palace. So that was indeed a planned invasion point, and it was the heart of the South, where the Divine and Inquisitor were located. So that was indeed a front line, if not THE front line. Still, as I wrote, even if the Arishok were on a dreadnought somewhere off a coast of some southern country, this should have been observed by that country, as each was warned of the potential danger ahead of time.

He never used the world "real" in front of Qunari. He only calls them the Qunari.

IllustriousT answered this. So, are you going to admit that he said "real Qunari", or are you just going to leave this part out of your next reply?

The "real" Qunari comes from this statement:

"and every time... We tried to talk ourselves into that for a while, like, 'Oh Bull wouldn't do this, they're not the real Qunari, they're an offshoot,' and it just got so toothless. It got to a point where we were like 'No, really, who wants to play a game where you are fighting the offshoot of the offshoot of the offshoot.'"
 
Which, to most of us, we interpret as all Qunari present in Trespasser must then be the "real" Qunari - therefore, not a rogue faction or an unauthorized group.

I agree they aren't a rogue faction, but when you interpret it as meaning they aren't an unauthorized group, that is where you make the mistake. As I pointed out, the Arishok in DA2 was real Qunari, but he wasn't authorized to attack Kirkwall. The remaining members of the Triumvirate disavow him. So it is possible to be real Qunari and also not be authorized.

Dai Insists that the Qunari are being used as a weapon by Viddasala, a group of soldiers that do not realize they are following an unauthorized mission, and therefore are still "real" Qunari.

Correct. Some even question her, and she must write letters to convince them that the operation is right.

Viddasala on the other hand is no longer working within the Qun because she is acting of her own accord, but since Weekes did not mention her specifically, her role is therefore able to be interpreted as being unauthorized. Whereas most of us kind of lump her in with the Qunari Weekes speaks of.

Not exactly. Viddasala has taken action outside the Qun by feeding lyrium to saarebas, having her own inexperienced agents make gaatlok, and by bringing in red lyrium, among other things. However, as far as her being outside the Qun, she still believes in the Qun. So I would say she is still "real Qunari". She probably genuinely believes that starting a war with the South is what the Qun demands of her, even without the Triumvirate's authorization. She won't be cast out of the Qun unless the Triumvirate or at least the Ariqun declares her Tal-Vashoth, which can't happen since she dies before they can investigate her actions. So my stance is that she is probably real Qunari acting without authorization. But you are right that Weekes doesn't mention her specifically, so we don't know what he thinks of her. She could be real Qunari, or she could be completely outside the Qun as Weekes sees it. But either way, he says nothing of her being authorized or not.

That is where the argument fails for me and enters the zone of pointless, because its difficult to debate interpretations as we all know. Weekes exclusion of remarking specifically on Viddasala's mission has convinced Dai that she is not part of the group that Weekes refers too,

No, I'm just pointing out that he doesn't mention her. He only refers to the Qunari we fought in the game, and we did not fight Viddasala. Again, he might see her as real Qunari, he might not. As for the mission itself, Weekes says nothing about it.

and Epler's statement that she is a "Qunari Leader" convinced him that she has assumed the highest possible position in using these "real" Qunari forces as weapons to her cause. She is a Qunari leader, not because she is following the Qun, but because she leads Qunari.

Not only that she is leading them, she is THE leader. Meaning, the only one. That proves she was acting alone. She was the only official overseeing all of it.

Anyway, I understand it...I don't agree with it, due to my own interpretations of Weekes statement..but I understand why Dai would interpret it that way.

Thanks.

[Dai Grepher]

Unless you have something to add about why they're incomparable contexts, you're just standing on the side lines throwing out unsupported generalities and not adding anything of weight to the discussion.

So prove why the Arishok, or any other member of the Triumvirate, would have to be at the front lines and can't or won't delegate subordinates in authorized operations. Put up, or shut up.

You're rude to people. He's just pointing out that there is fanaticism going on in the thread.

Anyway, if this operation had been the basis for an invasion, then someone more important and competent should have been overseeing it, like the Ariqun for example. The Ariqun could have instructed the Viddasala, and the two high priests from the other two divisions of the Ben-Hassrath. It also would have served as a nice contrast to the Inquisitor and his three advisors. But if official, then the plan was too important to trust to just one mid-level priest.

Grepher simply made a statement that couldn't be supported and it was correctly pointed out.

No, your side twisted it out of context.

Of course he said they were official, because he put "the real Qunari" in context as not being an "offshoot" or "rogue".

This line of discussion was about Dragon's Breath. Not the Qunari.

This easily makes sense of the situation where a Qun-loyal Iron Bull ceases to follow and take orders from the Inquisitor.

No it doesn't. Hissrad's rationale is never mentioned, but Weekes suggests that Hissrad is duty bound to help his fellow real Qunari by mere fact they are real Qunari. In that case, them being unauthorized makes no difference. He is not allowed to kill fellow Qunari knowingly.

[Almostfaceman]

The Arishok led them. Just because he had units split up strategically doesn't mean he wasn't at the vanguard. He can also agree to a personal duel with Hawke.

 

And while the Arishok is stuck in Kirkwall, combat operations against Tevinter (Seheron) are in progress. Because he chooses to be present for one operation doesn't mean there's anything about being Qunari that demands he be present at all operations. Or any of them. 

[Almostfaceman]

Anyway, if this operation had been the basis for an invasion, then someone more important and competent should have been overseeing it, like the Ariqun for example. The Ariqun could have instructed the Viddasala, and the two high priests from the other two divisions of the Ben-Hassrath. It also would have served as a nice contrast to the Inquisitor and his three advisors. But if official, then the plan was too important to trust to just one mid-level priest.

 

Again, more head canon. 

[Almostfaceman]

This line of discussion was about Dragon's Breath. Not the Qunari.

No it doesn't. Hissrad's rationale is never mentioned, but Weekes suggests that Hissrad is duty bound to help his fellow real Qunari by mere fact they are real Qunari. In that case, them being unauthorized makes no difference. He is not allowed to kill fellow Qunari knowingly.

 

The Dragon's Breath and the Qunari are the same thing. The Dragon's Breath is an operation of the Qunari. And Weekes definitely speaks to Iron Bull's rationale. The rationale is "being loyal to the Qun."

 

"Oh we definitely want to have the Qunari in the Trespasser DLC, and what does that do for Iron Bull?', if we had known that years and years ahead of time, if we would have changed Iron Bull's plot somewhere, had him start as a Tal'Vashoth, or something like that, but I really like that choice. I love that we gave you a choice, and that it didn't immediately have a white hat and a black hat on it. And that it was a choice that had teeth; I love those, because it was really interesting after Trespasser shipped, watching the reaction to those. Because there were many people who were surprised and very unhappy and said 'This shouldn't have happened, even though I made Bull loyal to the Qun, he still should have respected me and not turned on me,' and there were a few people who would say that, but everytime someone said that, everyone else would turn and look at them and go 'What did you think was going to happen? You did a plot and told this guy specifically to be loyal to the Qun, so yeah, when the Qunari come... You did a plot that told him to stay on their side,' so really, there was no other way for us to do that."

 

How is he loyal to the Qun? He turns on you and doesn't respect you. They had the Qunari in the Trespasser DLC. They are the forces that we fight and that demand Iron Bull attack the Inquisitor. 

[Dai Grepher]

The problem I (and several others) have with Dai's interpretation is how unbelievable it's gotten. This one non-Qunari is able to dupe the entirety of her army and leadership into an unauthorized mission against a major power of the South?

Dabrikishaw, we can have an intellectual discussion if you wish. If you will read what I believe I think you will find it not so unbelievable.

She wasn't non-Qunari. She is the official Viddasala, and her role was to crawl inside people's heads and control their thoughts. She was a re-educator. So it is possible that she misled those under her. The notes found in the Vir Dirthara and Darvaarad prove that some viddathari and Qunari were questioning her, and she had to write letters to reassure them that Dragon's Breath was necessary and right. Jerran she had to have taken in for re-education, and he probably chose to fight rather than submit to someone he knew was wrong.

She did not dupe the leadership. She hid everything from them. The Triumvirate's letter states as much.

Also, she did not have an army. Her force was comprised mostly of Ben-Hassrath enforcers (regular sword carriers) and assassins. She had about a dozen antaam shock troopers, most of whom had already died in the elvhen ruins fighting Solas and the spirit guardians.

She had viddathari working as her spies, and they were mostly elves. A letter found in the Darvaarad is from an elven viddathari who indicates he joined in order to satiate his blood lust against the "shems". Leliana confirms three elves that were in Kirkwall when the Arishok attacked, which means they were already accustomed to times when Qunari attack and already had cause to hate humans. This is the mark of a Viddasala who is using people, not teaching them discipline as the Qun demands. She was turning their hatred into a weapon she could use, not teaching them to control their anger or just complete a mission with reverence and focus.

She had... I think three saarebas total, as well as Saarath. One at the end of the mines, one in the camp in the Vir Dirthara, and one in the room before the ataashi. So that isn't much in the way of saarebas.

I think the most numerous forces were the spear men.

And let's not forget that many of her Ben-Hassrath agents were females. Which means they would not be allowed to fight on any battlefield in the case of an invasion.

So that isn't an army by any stretch. She had her own agents naturally, and she was also able to request antaam soldiers to protect her people in the ruins, mines, Crossroads, and Darvaarad. She was able to request three saarebas, none of which had arvaarad handlers. Then she had her own viddathari spies who would move gaatlok. She also had unskilled viddathari workers, not of the Arigena branch, manufacturing the gaatlok because as Hissrad implied, the Arigena would not let that much gaatlok out of Par Vollen.

It's all a question of what forces she really had, how many, and how many things could she handle on her own so that the Triumvirate would not learn of her activities.

Then there is the Triumvirate letter to Josephine that was intercepted and denied delivery because Viddasala crumpled it up. The letter disavows Viddasala in all worldstates.

And there is no war with the South at the end. No invasion. No signs that there ever was an invasion waiting off the coasts. In the alliance worldstate, the Triumvirate keeps the alliance and even asks for help from the Divine.

[Illyria]

All he said was that they were real Qunari, not that Dragon's Breath was official. Which is what you claimed in the post I was replying to.

The Qunari that attacked Kirkwall in DA2 were real Qunari as well. But they were not authorized to do what they did.

 

Bull betrayed the Inquisitor because Dragon's Breath was offical.

 

Correct. Some even question her, and she must write letters to convince them that the operation is right.

 

It's called plausible deniability.  If the plan worked then the Qunari invade and the south falls to the Qun.  If it fails then the Qunari deny all knowledge of her, and her plan.

[Mistic]

The armor worn by Sten's comrades covered all parts of the body. That is as full as it gets. Yet this did not equate to war. So regardless of what the Qunari consider full enough to be full armor, the fullest armor possible does not mean war. Bull was just being colorful with the truth, it seems.

 

Ah, so this was about Bull's colourful remark. Yes, I agree it was an exaggeration (even more likely since it happens in a banter with Dorian, the Tevinter). It would be like saying "if Americans come with tanks, you know it's war"... and then notice that it was just a delivery to a perfectly legal American base in an allied country.

 

On the other hand, that means that the same as you can find Qunari warriors in full armor not attacking, you can also find those in light armor invading, as in Kirkwall. The Arishok didn't stop his attack just because his warriors were lightly armored. So that means that armor can't be counted as evidence for or against the Qunari in Tresspasser being part of an invasion plan.

 

Then there is the Triumvirate letter to Josephine that was intercepted and denied delivery because Viddasala crumpled it up. The letter disavows Viddasala in all worldstates.

 

You keep using that as evidence, yet the explanation of "plausible deniability" covers it too in all worldstates.

[Illyria]

The armor worn by Sten's comrades covered all parts of the body. That is as full as it gets. Yet this did not equate to war. So regardless of what the Qunari consider full enough to be full armor, the fullest armor possible does not mean war. Bull was just being colorful with the truth, it seems.

 

Dragon Age Origins didn't have Qunari armour.  It barely had Qunari.  The unique Dalish robes seen in DA2 and DAI also aren't in DAO.  Does that mean these styles only came into fashion after the Fifth Blight?  But how does that explain ancient elves robes?  Clearly time travel was involved!

[robertthebard]

Watch your tone. You're not speaking to your friends and family. This is a public forum.

This is exactly right, and in the future, you should take your own advice. Look, I'm sorry that your romanticized notion of the Qunari turned out to be false, but that's no reason to accuse other posters of being immature. I find it amusing, to say the least, that you feel like it's ok to be snarky to anyone you choose, and then come back with this post when someone is snarky to you. I've seen this behavior exhibited before, by my grandson, he's 8.

The fact of the matter is, in a situation where writers draw on what they know, and people interpreting it draw upon what they know, we're going to come up with real life comparisons. The events are, after all, based around real life, because that's what the writers, and most of us know. That this doesn't fit with what you, or Dai prefers to believe about the Qunari doesn't invalidate what we've been told. As I told you before, I'm appalled that you believe that Word of God is insufficient evidence to overturn your head canon. Most of us have taken it at face value. Some of us didn't need the quote to know the truth, we understood why a Qun loyal IB would turn on us. Ironically, this thread is around 50 pages of us doing something else pointed out in Weekes' quote: "but the quanri wouldn't do that" disputed with "the qunari totally did that". No hoops required, you read what's presented, and accept it at face value.

This "but he didn't mention her specifically, so she's not included" isn't a rational reason, it's a copout required for "but my qunari wouldn't do that". They totally did that.

[Illyria]

"There" as in anywhere. He wasn't in the elvhen ruins, where the path to the Halamshiral mirror was short. Viddasala ordered a shock trooper to wait in those passages until the time was right to invade the palace. Why wasn't the order at least from the Arishok? He also wasn't in the Darvaarad, another place where the mirror was close to the Halamshiral mirror. The Darvaarad was the base of operations. So he wasn't on the front lines, he wasn't at the command center. Nothing is said of any fleets or armies stationed anywhere near any southern nation. No orders from him found anywhere. No mention of him even. We explored the front lines, the side projects, and the operation's HQ. The Arishok was nowhere to be found. None of his leaders of lesser rank were seen either. No other Ben-Hassrath of Viddasala's level of rank were seen either. Wouldn't the leaders of Dangerous Action and Dangerous Questions be seen somewhere? Dangerous Action in the mines, Dangerous Questions in the Vir Dirthara perhaps?

No, the highest ranking Qunari we see is Viddasala, and that's it. Epler's statements at the conference confirm that she was the Qunari leader. That contradicts the Qun to have just one priest leading the opening attack of an invasion.
 

 

Two words: plausible. deniability.

 

As for your second paragraph: are you Weekes?  Or Epler?  Since you're neither I'll take their word above yours.  They created Thedas and the Qunari.  I think they might know one or two things more than you.  It's just a hunch, though.

[AlanC9]

I'm not sure Weekes was saying what you folks say he's saying. The Viddasala's plot is a qunari plot even if she doesn't have the support of the rest of qunari government. She believes that the Qun demands this, and so do all her people. Including the Iron Bull if that's how he's rolling this time around.

I gotta go with Dai Grepher's interpretation of the Letters and Replies. Intercepting the response doesn't make any sense if the Salasari intend it as a deception anyway. Note that the sealed response has been opened and then crumpled into a ball. So someone didn't know what was in it, read it, and didn't like what she read. The most plausible interpretation is that the Viddasala knows that the jig's almost up.

 

Of course, there is some deception in the reply. But,also of course, they're going to lie about how far up in their system the problem is.

[QueenCrow]

People have now resorted to drawing random comparisons between real life wars and videogame conflicts, ignoring both have entirely incomparable contexts. Not satisfied, they're nitpicking the guy's posts and applying a twisted logic when interpreting each and every line of what he said.

All this simply to prove he can't be right.


Not to prove him wrong. To prove he can't be right.



Wow. People can grow up in body, but remain forever the same inside their minds. Too bad I'm not a psychiatrist or the thread would make an excellent case study for a paper.

 

What amazes me about this thread is there are a few who condemn the fictional lack of freedoms under the Qun.  All the while these people themselves seem absolutely unwilling to accept the idea that someone could think differently, or have a different opinion, than they.  It's been 50+ pages of attempted reeducation for those who refuse to join the "official" consensus view of Viddasala.

 

If only the BSN had an administer qamek button for all those minority thinkers who just can't be reeducated.