1580 réponses à ce sujet

[Sifr]

I don't have one. I'm questioning yours, not proposing my own. Honestly, I found Weekes' statement a bit confusing.

What's your interpretation of the letters? What are they there for? Outright mistake? Possible. Deliberate misleading of the player? To what end?

 

More likely that the Triumvirate are officially invoking plausible deniability, because the plan was discovered before it could be carried out, leading them to denounce her as a scapegoat to cover their own backsides. We're told that there were several other letters in Qunlat going back and forth on the desk, so there's some degree of communication taking place between the Darvaraad and Par Vollen, it's not like she was operating previously in the dark.

 

Now, does this denouncement mean that she carried out the mission against new mission directives that aborted it... I suppose that is a possibility, because her crumpling the letter shows she was not happy by "official" story the Triumvirate went with.

 

But it seems more likely to me that Par Vollen always intended her to carry out the mission regardless, but were prepared to label her Tal-Vashoth if she failed, something that infuriated her. You can't really blame her for that. Imagine how you'd feel doing your duty and following orders, only to be branded a traitor regardless of whether you succeeded at your mission.

 

Either way, it's clear she's never going to be able to go home again... so what does she have to lose?

[robertthebard]

I don't see the mechanism for the italed part. If IB's chain runs up to the Viddasala herself, who tells him that she's off the reservation?

It's not all that complicated, according to Solas, there were so many Qunari spies in the Inquisition that his spies were tripping over them. Perhaps a Tal Vashoth IB wouldn't know, but a Qun loyal IB would certainly be made aware, since his operation is connected to what she's doing.

[Illegitimus]

Is the President Qunari?


Qunari lead from the front. But even if the Arishok wanted to command from a base, the Darvaarad would have been the logical location. But we don't see him anywhere, not on the front lines, not at the HQ. There are also no reports of him or any antaam units being sighted anywhere close to the borders of any southern nation. He is completely absent.

So how do you know this is a sanctioned invasion? You have only what Viddasala claims.


 

 

How do you know that Qunari always lead from the front?  In any case, there's one way to know this is a sanctioned operation...all those troops.  There is no freaking way that the head of the CIA gets that many actual military troops without the knowledge assent of the "Commander in Chief".  Viddasala could have commanded Iron Bull.  For all of his fighting ability, he's a spy, part of her command.  But it isn't possible for Viddasala to move that many ships and troops without the rest of the Qunari knowing and countermanding it if they had a problem with.  They had to allow it.  The only alternative is to assume they are weak and incompetent and about to lose their grip on power.  

 

So why isn't Arishok there?  Well the Qunari have to be aware of the risks of setting off another united Exalted March.   If Viddasala's decapitation strike works that's going to be difficult to organize but if it doesn't...well, a bit of plausible deniability, allowing them the option of pulling out before things go to far.  In other words "the secretary will disavow any knowledge".

 

https://youtu.be/MA2KmJMKFrQ?t=77

[In Exile]

I don't have one. I'm questioning yours, not proposing my own. Honestly, I found Weekes' statement a bit confusing.

What's your interpretation of the letters? What are they there for? Outright mistake? Possible. Deliberate misleading of the player? To what end?

 

The likely obvious answer: the Qunari decided to immediately cut their losses when they were found out. It doesn't have to be so complicated. The Qunari expected that their plan would be covert. When they get a letter from Josephine that amounts to: "Qunari, the ****?" they decide to write off the Viddasala rather than risk a united south. It doesn't have to be more complicated that their disowning her for political expediency solely because she was found out.

[Giantdeathrobot]

The whole "Qunari lead from the front" thing is based on nothing. Sten never says so, neither does IB. The Arishok did not lead from the front at all; indeed, he kept his arse safe in Kirkwall's keep as Hawke mowed down wave after wave of his mooks. Only when Hawke corners him to he agree to a duel if circumstances permit it, but that's a far cry from going full Leeroy Jenkins like Cailan did, with the predictable result of the army collapsing when the leader gets offed like the knucklehead he is.

[Sifr]

The idea that "Qunari lead from the front" is further debunked by Sten being sent with the Beresaad to answer the question "What is the Blight?" for the Arishok. If the Qunari didn't know how to delegate tasks that are deemed important, the Arishok would have come to Ferelden personally.

 

Granted, Sten's mission was to lead a small team in a bit of low-level reconnoitre to assess Fereldan military strength as well as gain information on the Blight, rather than leading hundreds in a large scale operation like in Trespasser, but the point stands.

 

Qunari don't (overly) micromanage, they delegate.

[pdusen]

I love this thread. It's like watching the world's slowest trainwreck.

[IllustriousT]

I love this thread. It's like watching the world's slowest trainwreck.

 

Train's derailed, clean up has commenced and been completed, and people are staring at the aftermath face-palming:

 

"How did that train get cleaned up so fast?"

"Maybe it was concerted effort?"

"No..No...it was only one guy that did all that cleaning."

"Really...because I saw a lot of emergency vehicles."

"Yes, but the emergency vehicles are only there to make you think that it was a concerted effort...it was just that one guy."

"But...the mayor said it was an effort of all the departments."

"He lied."

[AlanC9]

More likely that the Triumvirate are officially invoking plausible deniability, because the plan was discovered before it could be carried out, leading them to denounce her as a scapegoat to cover their own backsides. We're told that there were several other letters in Qunlat going back and forth on the desk, so there's some degree of communication taking place between the Darvaraad and Par Vollen, it's not like she was operating previously in the dark.

@ In Exile too: But why is she intercepting and reading the letter to Josephine if the Qunlat letters tell her what's in it? Why doesn't she want it delivered?

[AlanC9]

It's not all that complicated, according to Solas, there were so many Qunari spies in the Inquisition that his spies were tripping over them. Perhaps a Tal Vashoth IB wouldn't know, but a Qun loyal IB would certainly be made aware, since his operation is connected to what she's doing.

I don't see how this answers my question. Are you presuming that some other group of qunari spies that aren't in the Viddasala's organization are present? That there are parallel qunari spying operations in the Inquisition and IB is in contact with both of them?

[Almostfaceman]

I don't see how this answers my question. Are you presuming that some other group of qunari spies that aren't in the Viddasala's organization are present? That there are parallel qunari spying operations in the Inquisition and IB is in contact with both of them?

 

How do you think Iron Bull is in contact with the Qunari? It's probably through a spy network, right? So they can have secure communications. Right? 

 

Makes sense? 

[AlanC9]

How do you think Iron Bull is in contact with the Qunari? It's probably through a spy network, right? So they can have secure communications. Right?

Makes sense?

A spy network that the Viddasala runs, though? I mean, you did read the post you quoted, right? Are you saying that there really are parallel qunari spy operations in the Inquisition? I mean, she's not going around telling her own people that this is a rogue operation, presumably.

[midnight tea]

A spy network that the Viddasala runs, though? I mean, you did read the post you quoted, right?

 

No, Viddassala doesn't run all Ben-Hassarath.

 

She runs a branch of them, responsible for magic hunting and re-educating people.

[AlanC9]

So we are positing separate qunari operations in the Inquisition, and that the one which doesn't report to the Viddasala is still in contact with IB even though he's in her branch?

It's a workable assumption. Are we making it? Have we any justification for it?

[midnight tea]

So we are positing separate qunari operations in the Inquisition, and that the one which doesn't report to the Viddasala is still in contact with IB even though he's in her branch?

It's a workable assumption. Are we making it? Have we any justification for it?

 

Er, he's NOT in her branch   IB has nothing to do with curbing, researching or hunting magic or re-educating people.

[Almostfaceman]

A spy network that the Viddasala runs, though? I mean, you did read the post you quoted, right? Are you saying that there really are parallel qunari spy operations in the Inquisition? I mean, she's not going around telling her own people that this is a rogue operation, presumably.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting confused about. The Iron Bull has an official connection to his Qunari bosses. That's how he knows the Viddasala is conducting an official operation. The lines of communication are through spy networks to keep communications secure. 

 

What's so confusing about that? 

[Almostfaceman]

A spy network that the Viddasala runs, though? I mean, you did read the post you quoted, right? Are you saying that there really are parallel qunari spy operations in the Inquisition? I mean, she's not going around telling her own people that this is a rogue operation, presumably.

 

And you still haven't answered my question about what you have a problem with in the OP. 

 

Because the letters aren't the subject of the OP. You know that, right? 

[thats1evildude]

You would think that if the Viddasala was a rogue agent, the other loyal members of the Ben-Hassrath would pass a note on to Hissrad, just to let him know that this woman is acting alone and shouldn't be trusted.

 

Boy, the qunari really dropped the ball on this whole mess, didn't they?

 

"Inquisition, we want you to know that this woman has nothing to do with us. That said, we're not going to lift a finger to stop her, even though her success basically requires us to go to war with the south, and her failure means the loss of dozens of our agents and several bases. Something something demand of the Qun.

 

Oh, Hissrad is dead? Guess we should have let him know about the crazy lady. Well, nobody liked him anyway."

[correctamundo]

I love this thread. It's like watching the world's slowest trainwreck.

 

55 pages long trainwreck and really no sign of slowing down. Impressive.

[AlanC9]

I'm not sure what you're getting confused about. The Iron Bull has an official connection to his Qunari bosses. That's how he knows the Viddasala is conducting an official operation. The lines of communication are through spy networks to keep communications secure. 
 
What's so confusing about that?

Because it's not clear how IB has a communication chain to his bosses which doesn't pass right through the Viddasala. Wouldn't both Cory and the Inquisitor be part of her area of concern? That would mean that IB works for her, and what he knows is what she tells him.

What am I missing about IB's communication chain? How does it route around the Viddasala?

[Almostfaceman]

Because it's not clear how IB has a communication chain to his bosses which doesn't pass right through the Viddasala. Wouldn't both Cory and the Inquisitor be part of her area of concern? That would mean that IB works for her, and what he knows is what she tells him.

What am I missing about IB's communication chain? How does it route around the Viddasala?

 

Why does the Viddasala have to be in IB's chain of command? All IB needs to know is if the operation is official or not, get some orders from his bosses to support it when she calls on him and that's the end of that. 

[robertthebard]

A spy network that the Viddasala runs, though? I mean, you did read the post you quoted, right? Are you saying that there really are parallel qunari spy operations in the Inquisition? I mean, she's not going around telling her own people that this is a rogue operation, presumably.

She's not the top dog, she's the leader of one group. Even if IB was in her cadre of resources, there are other things going on. Although, in retrospect, it doesn't make much sense for IB to be in her cadre of resources. His mission began well before hers did, presumably, anyway. I suspect, after thinking on it a bit, that his orders are coming from a somewhat higher source. Regardless, however, once they got that letter from Josephine, if it were a rogue operation, they'd have informed IB of such, to see if he could put a sock in it before it got out of hand.

However, as we see, the end result is that a Qun loyal IB turns on you at the behest of the Viddasala, so the odds are that the letter is a smokescreen, to provide plausible deniability. Of course she's going to be irate, nobody wants to think that their superiors are going to just leave them hanging if things go sideways.

[In Exile]

@ In Exile too: But why is she intercepting and reading the letter to Josephine if the Qunlat letters tell her what's in it? Why doesn't she want it delivered?

I'm not sure I follow. I thought the scene was meant to show her slipping hold on sanity as she finds out she's been disavowed. As to why she's intercepting letters from the Qunari to the Inquisition, presumably she's curious about the reply (given that the Inquisition is infiltrated to high heaven it makes sense she'd know Josie sent the letter).

[In Exile]

Because it's not clear how IB has a communication chain to his bosses which doesn't pass right through the Viddasala. Wouldn't both Cory and the Inquisitor be part of her area of concern? That would mean that IB works for her, and what he knows is what she tells him.

What am I missing about IB's communication chain? How does it route around the Viddasala?

The same way presumably the head of the CIA does not have access to NSA correspondence. He's working for a different organisation in the same umbrella group.

[Secret Rare]

The same way presumably the head of the CIA does not have access to NSA correspondence. He's working for a different organisation in the same umbrella group.

I admit this post confused me a lot.

Irony,irony that i couldn't follow because i didn't read all the 55 pages triggered by Dai Grepher.

 

You would think that if the Viddasala was a rogue agent, the other loyal members of the Ben-Hassrath would pass a note on to Hissrad, just to let him know that this woman is acting alone and shouldn't be trusted.

 

 

Ben-Hassrath,Hissrad, Kossith to Viddasala and Iron-Bull......Oh  i'm having headaches 

This thread is increasing the numbers of Qunari words at the expense of english.