1580 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

Perhaps "warfare" was too broad of a term. Sure they can be assassins and spies, and that counts as warfare. So I will rephrase. Women cannot command warrior units in battle, or instruct them to engage in war, which is what Viddasala did.

We know no such thing. That's your speculative extrapolation from what we know about the Qun conception of gender. Like I said, you're making this "women aren't warriors" into an absolute even when we know it doesn't stop them from sending women in to kill people. We simply do not know where the line is with this idea.

No, I'm just going by the available facts (women cannot be warriors according to the Qun). You are theorizing without a factual basis (the Triumvirate must have authorized because the operation is too big).

But your "facts" aren't facts, they're absolutist extrapolations of an ill defined set of ideas that we know exist in the Qun. We do not know what the limits of these ideas are. We cannot say that "The Qunari would never do this," because this is not simply a woman being part of the Antaam or a woman commanding a military operation. This is a woman fulfilling her role as Vidasala, researching and studying magic, in pursuit of a military goal. It makes sense that both branches would be involved just as it make sense that the one who's actually knowledgable about what their dealing with would be in charge.

I could accuse you of that. You think the operation is too large for one agent to formulate, even though she is the only agent overseeing it. And because the idea of her formulating it as well does not fit your idea of how such an operation could come to be, you conclude that the Triumvirate must have authorized it.

I do not put my own ideas into this at all. The Qunari believe in all Qunari individuals being assigned roles based on their observed skills and affinities (fact). They give tasks to each according to their roles (fact). Dragon's Breath had multiple tasks, most of which were outside of Viddasala's roles (fact). Therefore it stands to reason that other agents would have been assigned to those tasks had the operation been official (logical conclusion).

Too big to "formulate"? No, I don't think it's too big to "formulate", there is no problem with one agent coordinating it. I think it's too big from a practical standpoint for one operative to pull off and completely escape the notice of the Qunari given all the resources involved, including not just access to the Antaam and supplies, but also access to Viddathari with relevant knowledge. That's not even getting into her need to coordinate with Qunari spies across southern Thedas to get the barrels in place.

The Qunari believe that individuals should be assigned roles based on their observed skills and affinities (fact). They give tasks to each according to their roles (fact). The primary task of Dragon's Breath was gathering arcane knowledge to open Eluvians to the relevant locations (fact). In other cases like creating the gaatlok they brought in specialists whose role presumably didn't fall under the Ben-Hassrath (fact).

You seem to be making the assumption that the three-part separation of Qun society is absolute, that no part of one section may serve under another even for a specific mission, only under their own. We do not know that this is the case and there very well could have been workers technically under the Arigena in the mines or Darvarrad.

[ModernAcademic]

This is what I consider the most significant obstacle to the Viddasala being rogue (or not) argument. Without an understanding of how the Qunari system actually works in practice- which we don't have- we can't know what the expectations and sanctions even are. And that's on top of the potential for internal contradictions under the Qun- where a system can have different parts where actors- without direct sanction from higher- can come into natural conflict through the good-faith execution of their understood duties.

 

(An innocuous American political example, for example, might be an FBI agent undercover, being investigated by a state police agency for the crimes committed under that process.)

 

That's one of the main points I had raised back there. We know nothing of Qunari society except for what a few characters told us in Origins and Inquisition (therefore all were partial and biased information) plus the very short experience with the Arishok in DA2 (which didn't tell us that much, either).

 

But as it's expected in a massive forum, people kept insisting there was enough information to judge what the Viddasala was and how her interaction with the Qunari government was supposed to be. Even though we've never even seen Par Vollen at first hand and have no idea what the Triumvirate is, how it operates or how it's even supposed to look like.

 

People were building hypothesis on top of hypothesis and insisting the available evidence pointed out to their conclusion being the only one valid. And implying that automatically invalidated the argument of the opposite side of the discussion. And forcing that conclusion upon the other side to the point of ganging up against one guy(!), just because he calmly said there wasn't enough evidence for him to agree with them.

 

It was like watching two blind people argue over a painting. They can't see the actual painting, only imagine what it looks like after touching the surface.

[Almostfaceman]

That's one of the main points I had raised back there. We know nothing of Qunari society except for what a few characters told us in Origins and Inquisition (therefore all were partial and biased information) plus the very short experience with the Arishok in DA2 (which didn't tell us that much, either).

 

But as it's expected in a massive forum, people kept insisting there was enough information to judge what the Viddasala was and how her interaction with the Qunari government was supposed to be. Even though we've never even seen Par Vollen at first hand and have no idea what the Triumvirate is, operates or is even supposed to look like.

 

People were building hypothesis on top of hypothesis and insisting the available evidence pointed out to their conclusion being the only one valid. And implying that automatically invalidated the argument of the opposite side of the discussion. And forcing that conclusion upon the other side to the point of ganging up against one guy(!), just because he calmly said there wasn't enough evidence for him to agree with them.

 

It was like watching two blind people argue over a painting. They can't see the actual painting, only imagine what it looks like after touching the surface.

 

Well this was vague and nonconstructive criticism, as most criticism is when it doesn't bother to address any specific problems or points. This also totally avoided the subject of the OP, which is clear in meaning and doesn't require a detailed understanding of the Qunari. 

 

Edit: In fact the OP and most communication by Bioware to the fans is aimed at casual fans who don't need to have a high lore IQ to understand what they're talking about. A large segment of the people who buy their games don't even finish them. 

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 15 mai 2016 - 08:21 .

[ModernAcademic]

What amazes me about this thread is there are a few who condemn the fictional lack of freedoms under the Qun.  All the while these people themselves seem absolutely unwilling to accept the idea that someone could think differently, or have a different opinion, than they.  It's been 50+ pages of attempted reeducation for those who refuse to join the "official" consensus view of Viddasala.

 

If only the BSN had an administer qamek button for all those minority thinkers who just can't be reeducated.

 

That, my friend, is called group mentality. The better the quality of the group, the higher the individual will be elevated from his individual limitations. The worse, however, the more mediocre he becomes. To the point people lose the ability to accept dissensus as a natural part of a conversation and even a necessary one for the maintenance of a minimum amount of critical thinking within a group, such as we see in online forums. 

 

It's the reason why internet, this great collective mind that serves as a repository of everything people think and imagine is making people less prone to think for themselves and more willing to accept general consensus, be it in their thinking processes, behavior, decision making and when forming an opinion.

 

Internet could be a great tool to enlighten minds and hearts. Instead, it fulfills egotistical functions: it's fodder to feed petty disagreements, a narcissistic tool of self-aggrandizement, a vast marketing means for sub-celebrities to build their career and other irrelevant stuff we could all do without and not die. That is to say, like TV, it has become just another resource to feed people's egos and vanities.

 

Internet's not serving any real function for most people. Just distracting the masses from their small universes, their little lives and their little personal periodic crises. They heal their neuroses finding solace in the big collective, where they can lose themselves. But more and more, internet is being filled like a trash can. Which is why it's important individuals who do not wish to be contaminated by the toxic part of the internet need to filter what they access now and then. Otherwise, they absorb what's unhealthy from the group and begin to lose notion of individuality itself. They just let the group "fill the blanks" of their personality, whether with good content or bad content. 

 

Example of bad content: ganging up against a person that has a different opinion, as you correctly pointed out. 

[ModernAcademic]

Well this was vague and nonconstructive criticism, as most criticism is when it doesn't bother to address any specific problems or points. This also totally avoided the subject of the OP, which is clear in meaning and doesn't require a detailed understanding of the Qunari. 

 

Edit: In fact the OP and most communication by Bioware to the fans is aimed at casual fans who don't need to have a high lore IQ to understand what they're talking about. A large segment of the people who buy their games don't even finish them. 

 

/\

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(Do I even have to say anything?)

[Almostfaceman]

/\

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(Do I even have to say anything?)

 

Not when you're preaching to your own ego. 

 

The high and mighty ModernAcademic, pronouncing judgment upon us all yet staying above the fray. Behold!

 

[Almostfaceman]

 

Example of bad content: ganging up against a person that has a different opinion, as you correctly pointed out. 

 

Nobody is making anyone agree with me in this thread. There is no organized concerted effort towards false agreement on a topic of discussion.

 

And, nobody is making Dai Grepher engage with anyone in this thread.

 

It's safe to say we're all adults having a voluntary discussion. 

 

And here you are again trying to derail the thread. 

[ModernAcademic]

Not when you're preaching to your own ego. 

 

The high and mighty ModernAcademic, pronouncing judgment upon us all yet staying above the fray. Behold!

 

Now you're the one causing the thread to derail.

[Almostfaceman]

Now you're the one causing the thread to derail.

 

Clearly, responding to a derail-er is a derailment, unless one points out that you, the derail-er still haven't addressed the actual argument about the OP. Instead you've lobbed silly pronouncements at people involved in the discussion over the OP. 

 

So, do you have anything to add regarding the OP? 

[ModernAcademic]

Clearly, responding to a derail-er is a derailment, unless one points out that you, the derail-er still haven't addressed the actual argument about the OP. Instead you've lobbed silly pronouncements at people involved in the discussion over the OP. 

 

So, do you have anything to add regarding the OP? 

 

You're having way too much fun with this.

You're one of those people who enjoy making a bit of a mess now and then.  

 

In all seriousness, I've posted a comment about Dean Young's post on there being no crucial information on Qunari society. He quoted In Exile, who had just posted an opinion that echoes what had already been discussed more than 10 pages ago.  This is why some people are coming here and making jokes about the length of the thread. There simply isn't much more to be said. Hence the discussion falling into circular arguments.

 

The discussion is exhausted at this point (in the sense of there being no new evidence from the devs, no new interviews and most major points having been covered). And yet, a group insists a guy is fundamentally wrong. When the available evidence isn't enough to solve the puzzle.

 

But whatever. You guys from the other side of the discussion wanna keep pressing him for the fun, go ahead. If he doesn't mind it...

[thats1evildude]

I don't need an in-depth understanding of how the qunari society functions to dismiss the idea that the Viddasala was a rogue agent. The idea defies common sense.

It requires me to somehow accept that one moderately high-ranked qunari managed to fool dozens of fellow agents and viddathari into helping her essentially wage war on the south, and to commit actions that are in flagrant violation of the Qun.

And it requires massive ineptitude from the other qunari, who could stop her from starting a war with a single message passed on to one of the agents she's misled. I thought the qunari were a force to be reckoned with, not a collection of buffoons.

[Mistic]

The discussion is exhausted at this point (in the sense of there being no new evidence from the devs, no new interviews and most major points having been covered). And yet, a group insists a guy is fundamentally wrong. When the available evidence isn't enough to solve the puzzle.

 

But whatever. You guys from the other side of the discussion wanna keep pressing him for the fun, go ahead. If he doesn't mind it...

 

You realize that the situation could be described too as "And yet, a guy insists a group is fundamentally wrong" As for "pressing him", this thread doesn't precisely have the title "it's official, the Viddasala WAS a rogue agent". If this were a Solas fan thread and someone kept saying how Solas is unworthy of being liked as a character, you wouldn't say that the fans are pressing the issue if they object, would you?

 

(Observation: yes, I know how many Mage-Templar and Elf appreciation threads ended like that. Sigh, BSN).

 

Also, part of the disagreement is that not everyone accepts that "the available evidence isn't enough to solve the puzzle". I think the most accurate description would be "the available evidence isn't enough to convince one of the sides", whoever that side may be. After all, we know that the puzzle can only have two solutions: either Viddasala's attack was authorised or it wasn't. By virtue of defending one of the answers, some side already solved the puzzle with the evidence presented in-game.

 

In the end, it doesn't matter. DA4 will probably make it clear enough for everyone and that will be the end of it. A similar thing happened with Cerberus in ME. That, or there will be a new interview that will be exhausted as much as the previous ones.

[robertthebard]

That, my friend, is called group mentality. The better the quality of the group, the higher the individual will be elevated from his individual limitations. The worse, however, the more mediocre he becomes. To the point people lose the ability to accept dissensus as a natural part of a conversation and even a necessary one for the maintenance of a minimum amount of critical thinking within a group, such as we see in online forums.

Cool, show me some thesis work that clearly demonstrates that "not a rogue faction" equals "not authorized", and I'll bow out of the dialog gracefully. Show me a situation where head canon trumps Word of God, and I'll accept that head canon overrules actual canon.
 

It's the reason why internet, this great collective mind that serves as a repository of everything people think and imagine is making people less prone to think for themselves and more willing to accept general consensus, be it in their thinking processes, behavior, decision making and when forming an opinion.

I played Trespasser, and I formed an opinion. I read the OP, and had that opinion validated. I have then watched in amusement bordering on horror as some people jumped through flaming hoops, and other less appealing mental gymnastics to reach a conclusion that more accurately reflected their romanticized notion of the Qunari, instead of what Word of God tells us is true about the Qunari. So I guess, in a way, you're right, I just don't think it applies to whom you'd wish it to apply.
 

Internet could be a great tool to enlighten minds and hearts. Instead, it fulfills egotistical functions: it's fodder to feed petty disagreements, a narcissistic tool of self-aggrandizement, a vast marketing means for sub-celebrities to build their career and other irrelevant stuff we could all do without and not die. That is to say, like TV, it has become just another resource to feed people's egos and vanities.

You mean it's just like any college campus, anywhere in the world?
 

Internet's not serving any real function for most people. Just distracting the masses from their small universes, their little lives and their little personal periodic crises. They heal their neuroses finding solace in the big collective, where they can lose themselves. But more and more, internet is being filled like a trash can. Which is why it's important individuals who do not wish to be contaminated by the toxic part of the internet need to filter what they access now and then. Otherwise, they absorb what's unhealthy from the group and begin to lose notion of individuality itself. They just let the group "fill the blanks" of their personality, whether with good content or bad content. 
 
Example of bad content: ganging up against a person that has a different opinion, as you correctly pointed out.

Here's the thing, differing opinions make a discussion go around, until that opinion contradicts established lore, or, in this case, Word of God. This isn't Common Core math, where saying 75 is about what a person who read 75 pages is an incorrect answer. This is the (new) lead writer of the series, and the person who actually wrote IB explaining that a Qun Loyal IB will turn on the Inquisitor because he knows they're not a rogue faction, or an offshoot of an offshoot. The only way we come up with varying opinions about that is denial, "but my Qunari wouldn't do that". Do tell, however, if, upon learning from Josie that the Viddasala was off the reservation, the Qunari didn't send forces in to deal with her?

[Sifr]

While I can see what ModernAcademic is saying, because it is true that sometimes a passionate fandom can form an opinion and entrench themselves into it... this is not one of those times. Because unlike a debate where there are no canon answers, this actually has been answered by the writers and devs, but one person refuses to accept it. Or rather, has twisted said answer into something completely the opposite, because it suits them better.

 

The reason we keep repeating the same quotes and sources are because the devs answered this in regards to whether this was a legitimate invasion by the Qunari from Par Vollen. The problem however is that Dai refuses to accept that answer, as despite the devs giving an actual definition of them and calling them "real Qunari", he refuses to accept it as meaning the real "real Qunari".

 

At this point, the debate is analogous to someone insisting that Dumbledore isn't gay, because it wasn't stated in the books, even though Rowling confirmed it. Because their own personal idea of Dumbledore is someone who crosses wands with many wizards, but would never... well, cross wands with other wizards!

[QueenCrow]

...

 

To the point people lose the ability to accept dissensus as a natural part of a conversation and even a necessary one for the maintenance of a minimum amount of critical thinking within a group, such as we see in online forums. 

 

...

 

In my individual opinion, all of what you wrote in post #1504 is really thought provoking.  What I've quoted above, though, that's a truly insightful key into modern human psyche.  And I think it's relevant to whatever metaphor or allegory - if there even is one tucked within a game story - to tenents of a fictional Qun.

 

It seems like human nature to try and fortify a group, community, nation, race with consensus thinking and it also seems human nature - for as long as humans have existed - to try get rid of people who can't or won't go along with whatever is deemed majority opinon.  Individuality results in chaos.  Consensus thinking is more orderly.

 

Your notion that herd mentality, or intolerance of dissent, is a death knell to critical thinking is logical, historically proven, and in my opinion, fundamental truth.  Perhaps that loss of critical thinking ability in the consensus-heavy Qun is why they seemed so inconsistent and inefficient in Trespasser.  Or perhaps inconsistencies and codices from Trespasser regarding the Qun - those now judged irrelevant in light of the original post - are just symptoms of less consistent or less efficient line of communications between writers and game developers.

[In Exile]

It's a silly point. This is a dumb internet debate. We can just as easily throw around the opposite narrative - that the whole thread is an illustration of a single person vehemently denying obvious reality in spite of the impassioned pleas of many, a sad commentary on our modern polarizing culture.

The reality is that a bunch of bored people with too much time on their hands like to have abstract and somewhat forceful debates about nothing - big deal.

[QueenCrow]

The reality is that a bunch of bored people with too much time on their hands like to have abstract and somewhat forceful debates about nothing - big deal.

 

In my individual opinion, that's the only interesting thing here.

[Sifr]

It's a silly point. This is a dumb internet debate. We can just as easily throw around the opposite narrative - that the whole thread is an illustration of a single person vehemently denying obvious reality in spite of the impassioned pleas of many, a sad commentary on our modern polarizing culture.

The reality is that a bunch of bored people with too much time on their hands like to have abstract and somewhat forceful debates about nothing - big deal.

 

I dunno, the internet takes the name "forum" from the location where the Romans would meet to gab and argue against each other, so this is not really a commentary on modern culture as something intrinsically human that we've always done, from the ancients to the digital age.

 

Humans are opinionated and love to argue. Samara came to the same conclusion in ME2;

 

"If three humans are in a room, there will be six opinions."

[In Exile]

I dunno, the internet takes the name "forum" from the location where the Romans would meet to gab and argue against each other, so this is not really a commentary on modern culture as something intrinsically human that we've always done, from the ancients to the digital age.

 

Humans are opinionated and love to argue. Samara came to the same conclusion in ME2;

 

"If three humans are in a room, there will be six opinions."

 

Yeah, but I feel the need to emphasize that this is a debate about video game politics based on incomplete information and silly assumptions about the world. Like, 50% of the reason people are so forceful on both sides is that this is a low stakes hobby debate. Apart from when it crosses the line into insults, it's all good fun.

[Aren]

The reality is that a bunch of bored people with too much time on their hands like to have abstract and somewhat forceful debates about nothing - big deal.

You wound us all.

[ModernAcademic]

In my individual opinion, all of what you wrote in post #1504 is really thought provoking.  What I've quoted above, though, that's a truly insightful key into modern human psyche.  And I think it's relevant to whatever metaphor or allegory - if there even is one tucked within a game story - to tenents of a fictional Qun.

 

It seems like human nature to try and fortify a group, community, nation, race with consensus thinking and it also seems human nature - for as long as humans have existed - to try get rid of people who can't or won't go along with whatever is deemed majority opinon.  Individuality results in chaos.  Consensus thinking is more orderly.

 

Your notion that herd mentality, or intolerance of dissent, is a death knell to critical thinking is logical, historically proven, and in my opinion, fundamental truth.  Perhaps that loss of critical thinking ability in the consensus-heavy Qun is why they seemed so inconsistent and inefficient in Trespasser.  Or perhaps inconsistencies and codices from Trespasser regarding the Qun - those now judged irrelevant in light of the original post - are just symptoms of less consistent or less efficient line of communications between writers and game developers.

 

I read somewhere that Trespasser was kind of rushed. That could be one of the possible causes for there being a problem in communications between writers and devs. If the writers weren't too sure of their ideas when production started, but decided to change something after the DLC was halfway ready, then it could have caused a major confusion and the new changes would be implemented in a rush, allowing for inconsistencies to linger. That's only a hypothesis, of course, but it's quite a common thing to happen during game development.

 

 They could have refined the details more. One of the key elements of the DLC was precisely the matter of Viddasala's actions being entirely in accordance to her orders from the Triumvirate or if she indeed went rouge at some point during her mission. 

 

This is why it would be interesting for players to have first-hand experience with the Qunari society. We would finally have a more accurate idea of how the Triumvirate works and how are the Ben-Hassrath sent to missions and kept instructed while carrying them out.

 

As for the Qunari relying too much on consensus thinking, I've always found it so strange, considering their society is mostly philosophical rather than religious. They don't believe in a God, nor in any deity. Or deities. Their spiritual leader was a philosopher, Koslun. And in spite of their insightful culture, they have an extremely rigid way of thinking, with extreme punishments for those who "deviate from the path". It's like watching an enlightened people suddenly change and act like fundamentalists depending on the occasion, while on other moments, be incredibly open-minded and tolerant of differences (think of Krem being accepted as a man in a society with rigid notions of genders). It's a very difficult concept for me to grasp.

 

 

 

Addendum: I believe this might have some correlation with the "great tragedy" that, according to Kieran, happened to the Qunari people. Maybe said tragedy changed who they are and their way of life, turning them into a self-protective, insular people with collective thinking bypassing any notion of individuality (which is a form of control over the individual that can be used by governments) and a rigid adherence to rules?

[Heimdall]

Just because their society doesn't have a religion or any form of deity worship doesn't mean it isn't based on dogma. Lacking a religion does not make their culture "insightful". A secular ideology can be just as based on blind faith as any religion. I'd say most of Qun society seems to revolve around convincing its adherents to accept a set of dogmatic "truths" and never to question them.

The dominant theory about the Qunari past is that they were infused with dragon blood at some point, this made them hyper aggressive and the Qun developed as a way of controlling that aggression. Though they don't actually seem to need it.

[QueenCrow]

 

 

As for the Qunari relying too much on consensus thinking, I've always found it so strange, considering their society is mostly philosophical rather than religious. They don't believe in a God, nor in any deity. Or deities. Their spiritual leader was a philosopher, Koslun. And in spite of their insightful culture, they have an extremely rigid way of thinking, with extreme punishments for those who "deviate from the path". It's like watching an enlightened people suddenly change and act like fundamentalists depending on the occasion, while on other moments, be incredibly open-minded and tolerant of differences (think of Krem being accepted as a man in a society with rigid notions of genders). It's a very difficult concept for me to grasp.

 

 

 

The rest of your post deserves attention and I fully intend to come back to it when I'm not in a bit of a rush with work in a few hours.

 

As for the idea you've brought forth above, I have a question.  Do the Qunari, or does the Qun, have an intellectual class (not counting priesthood/spies)?  If not, then perhaps they are inspired by any number of real societies that started with a philosophy/philosopher, then quickly evolved into a government by military/spy might in which intellectuals and free thinkers are killed or exiled.  That may explain the boggling inconsistency and deviation from philosophy.

 

Or it could be, as you've also suggested, rushed writing, development, programming, or other corporate inefficiency.  It happens in the best companies, and only gets worse with personnel turn-over, etc.  Bioware, no matter how hard they try, can't be immune to such things and their job gets harder with each exposure of fans to established lore.  The more canon lore we have, the narrower the path of consistent possibilities becomes.

[Sifr]

Just because their society doesn't have a religion or any form of deity worship doesn't mean it isn't based on dogma. Lacking a religion does not make their culture "insightful". A secular ideology can be just as based on blind faith as any religion. I'd say most of Qun society seems to revolve around convincing its adherents to accept a set of dogmatic "truths" and never to question them.

 

Yeah, the largely secular and atheistic Federation in Star Trek is a good example of this.

 

By the later series (TNG-era onwards) the characters seem to follow the Prime Directive as dogmatically as most fundamentalists do a religious text. They rarely if ever question it and use blanket justifications for why it's better to not getting involved, even if it's to prevent millions of people suffering, dying or planetary extinction. All while smugly patting themselves on the back and calling it an "enlightened" philosophy.

 

The dominant theory about the Qunari past is that they were infused with dragon blood at some point, this made them hyper aggressive and the Qun developed as a way of controlling that aggression. Though they don't actually seem to need it.

 

The theory about the dragon blood does make a lot of sense, at least to explain why the Qun is so rigid and indoctrinates them they will lose control over themselves if they leave.

 

I've wondered before whether the Tal-Vashoth were created by the Qunari as a means of control, a deterrent and propaganda, to show what leaving the Qun will do to someone. It could be that most hostile Tal-Vashoth we've encountered are merely indoctrinated to believe that's how they should act outside the Qun, so they ended up adopting those qualities, thus serving to reinforce that belief to other Qunari.

 

Sten's immediate reaction to losing Asala and believing he was now Tal-Vashoth, was to immediately flip out and murder everyone in sight, before he managed to bring himself back under control. While Dragon blood might be one reason for this outburst of aggression, the temporary psychotic break might have also been triggered by subconscious conditioning that the Qun has instilled, about Tal-Vashoth being violent, mindless killers, so that is what he became?

 

The Dragon-blood theory also makes me curious whether that might have been another reason (beyond our huge detour) why Sten confronts the Warden in Haven. Bull seems to suggest that some Qunari are able to sense when Dragons or Reavers are nearby, claiming something "speaks" to him. Perhaps the proximity of so many Reavers in Haven was enough to put Sten slightly on edge?

 

That being said, even if the theory is true about having some dragon-blood, the notion of them having increased aggression is probably exaggerated. The Vashoth throw a bit of a wrench in the idea that they need the Qun to temper them or prevent themselves succumbing to any kind of violent urges, if they ever even had them to begin with.

[Mistic]

That being said, even if the theory is true about having some dragon-blood, the notion of them having increased aggression is probably exaggerated. The Vashoth throw a bit of a wrench in the idea that they need the Qun to temper them or prevent themselves succumbing to any kind of violent urges, if they ever even had them to begin with.

 

True. Not to mention that Koslun's homeland had palaces, libraries, concert halls and other marvels. Hardly the works of a race so aggressive that only the Qun could rein their passions. WoT also mentions kossith temples and priests...

 

...however, I do acknowledge that it was said in the past that no one, not even the Qunari themselves, knows if Koslun was kossith or "an extremely chatty, argumentative, elderberry bush". Koslun could have come from another race and country and then met the kossith. WoT, in fact, menions that before him the kossith were wild, "devoted to a chaos that kept them from greatness".

 

After reading straykat's theories, I'm considering more and more the idea that Koslun came from afar, maybe even from Tevinter. However, not as part of a nefarious plan, but a honest sage who wandered until he found a people that he could change into his ideal. It could be one of the reveals that Bioware may be preparing for the next game.