1580 réponses à ce sujet

[Donquijote and 59 others]

8th pages for this?

I guess some people wont believe the truth even when it is rubbed on their face

[Dai Grepher]

9 pages. And yes, Beaconer, In Exile, and thesuperdarkone2 will never believe the truth, it seems.

[In Exile]

9 pages. And yes, Beaconer, In Exile, and thesuperdarkone2 will never believe the truth, it seems.

You're right. When everyone tells you you're wrong, it's obviously everyone else who is wrong.

[midnight tea]

9 pages. And yes, Beaconer, In Exile, and thesuperdarkone2 will never believe the truth, it seems.

 

Oh hon... you've reached new heights of denial.

 

It really is okay. The world won't end if you admit that you've been wrong in this case.

[vertigomez]

I feel like I'm watching a soap opera.

[Dai Grepher]

You're right. When everyone tells you you're wrong, it's obviously everyone else who is wrong.

Wow. "Everyone" is comprised of only three people. I didn't know that.

And I noticed you never replied to my question if all those who agreed with my post were also "nonsensical" or "argle-bargle" or whatever term you want to use.
 

Oh hon... you've reached new heights of denial.
 
It really is okay. The world won't end if you admit that you've been wrong in this case.

Then show me where Patrick Weekes said that Viddasala wasn't a rogue agent.

[SweetTeaholic]

Please stop arguing with  Dai guys. This is the guy who once told me that the writer doesn't know his own story and the person WHO WRITES THEIR STORY doesn't understand THEIR STORY!

 

Can we just close this already. It's going around in circles.

[midnight tea]

Then show me where Patrick Weekes said that Viddasala wasn't a rogue agent.

 

Wow, grasping at straws so badly now. You demand an exact statement, while entirely ignoring the fact that PW basically goes on and on for about 5 minutes how this was an official Qunari invasion and not any sort of offshoot, making a clear implication that Viddassala wasn't any sort of rogue.

 

 

Wow. "Everyone" is comprised of only three people. I didn't know that.

 

There are far more people responding to you, plus many more liking particular posts.

[thesuperdarkone2]

You're right. When everyone tells you you're wrong, it's obviously everyone else who is wrong.

You should remember that Dai is the same guy who was completely serious in stating that his opinion was irrefutable fact in the "templars are factually better" thread. I'm starting to wonder if he isn't just a troll or if he really is that delusional

[thesuperdarkone2]

And this is where your disconnection from logic comes in. I already answered this for you. Just because the Qunari that Viddasala commanded were real Qunari doesn't mean that she was not an official Qunari agent gone rogue acting without authorization. Patrick Weekes said NOTHING about Viddasala. You are typing things that have nothing to do with what you're trying to reply to.

 

LOL.

 

 

Didn't you just insult Baconer by saying you never called the Viddasala a rogue agent yet here you are calling her exactly that. Man, you're hypocrisy is just funny. I should save these just so I can laugh at your delusions

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, this argument has certainly become rather personal. Remember the Site Rules. No personal attacks against other posters. 

[In Exile]

And I noticed you never replied to my question if all those who agreed with my post were also "nonsensical" or "argle-bargle" or whatever term you want to use.

 

For your future reference, the two terms are synonyms:

ar·gle-bar·gle

ˌärɡəl ˈbärɡəl/

noun

BRITISHinformal

copious but meaningless talk or writing; nonsense.

"bureaucratic argle-bargle"

 

#themoreyouknow

Edit:

As to your argument, again, you've failed to apprehend the important distinction between: (i) the Qunari authorizing her mission; and (ii) the Qunari authorizing her means. The Qunari could have authorized her mission, could have literally told her: "set up bombs all over southern Thedas", and yet in executing her task she could have gone rogue (e.g. by using magic in a forbidden way). 

 

You also don't understand how the Qunari work. There's no indication that the Triumverate authorize anything - the codex entries we are given on the Qunari indicate that each of the three are sovereign within their respective zone. This is why, by way of aside, your position on the Arishok is argle-bargle - the only person who is entitled to determine whether it is a demand of the Qun to raze Kirkwall to the ground is the Arishok himself. 

[Nixou]

So what are your thoughts now that this is confirmed?

 

 

They chose to keep their plot internally coherent instead of giving their audience what it wrongly thought it wanted: kudos to them.

 

***

 

I think it's cool. But I support the idea that the Qun decided only to endorse this officially if she succeeded, since the Qun would have demanded that. And if she failed spectacularly they just look surprised and shrug. The Qun never demanded this. 

 

 

Apparently, the Qun demands only success.

You know what? That was a great line: put that line in a Tamassran's mouth next time.

 

***

 

I kinda want the Qunari to win tbh

 

 

Since Dragon Age is pretty much the Late-Medieval-Crises-with-Magic-and-Dragons, I'd expect the Qunari to fare as the Turks: they'll end up conquering Tevinter (and maybe Rivain) for good, but won't come to dominate all of Thedas.

 

***

 

I see no reason to have the Grey Wardens involved in the story. They could have a minor appearance like a quest in the Deep Roads or something of that sort but other than that, I'd prefer they do not have any larger presence since I feel they'd be likely to take away focus and time from the Qunari and Solas plot.

 

 

Agree: Bioware's writers seem to have... let's say "troubles" with resolving Wardens-related plot thread: better not feature them prominently until they figure out how correctly plot out the Southern vs Northern Wardens conflict.

Personally, I'd rather keep the Wardens completely absent from DA4 apart from side conversation and codex notes and bring them only for the stinger (although perhaps a side quest or two involving Tevinter Wardens could be acceptable, a way to show that they are present and active up north as well)

[Steelcan]

well this thread has run its course of usefulness it seems

 

inb4 botmd

[Dai Grepher]

Wow, grasping at straws so badly now. You demand an exact statement, while entirely ignoring the fact that PW basically goes on and on for about 5 minutes how this was an official Qunari invasion and not any sort of offshoot, making a clear implication that Viddassala wasn't any sort of rogue.

Okay. Where did he say it was an official Qunari operation?

As far as I heard and read, he only said they weren't a rogue faction. I never claimed they were a rogue faction, just that Viddasala had repurposed them to her own ends during Trespasser and that she was acting without authorization.

There are far more people responding to you, plus many more liking particular posts.

Malcontents will always be louder. The point is "everyone" was a gross exaggeration.

Didn't you just insult Baconer by saying you never called the Viddasala a rogue agent yet here you are calling her exactly that. Man, you're hypocrisy is just funny. I should save these just so I can laugh at your delusions

I can explain if you are willing to read this.

No, Baconer was quoting my posts from a different thread that discussed a different point in time than this thread does.

My position has always been that Viddasala was an official Qunari operative, but at some point in her legitimate operation of seeking and destroying magic she decided to develop Dragon's Breath and plot against the South and the Inquisition. She did this without authorization from the Triumvirate.

In Trespasser she has gone rogue, and she has repurposed the Qunari who are duty bound to obey her. That does not make all those Qunari a rogue faction. They are just following the orders of the one in charge over them. They don't know that she has gone rogue, and this is consistent with Weekes' statements in the interview.

As for her being Tal-Vashoth, that can only be determined by the Triumvirate, and since they didn't know about Viddasala's actions until Josephine managed to get word to them, it is unlikely they declared her Tal-Vashoth until after they could investigate her themselves, and by then Trespasser was already resolved. It is however my personal opinion that she became Tal-Vashoth the second the Triumvirate disavowed any knowledge of her actions and she defied the Triumvirate's letter.

So this is all a question of timing. Viddasala started out as an official Qunari operative. She went rogue when she launched her own plan and repurposed Qunari to forward her personal agendas, which Jerran rightly points out. She went rogue by acting outside of her role and violating the rules over her. But hey, chalk that up to overzealous initiative, right? She would still be in trouble, and subject to re-education, but she didn't become Tal-Vashoth in my opinion until she blatantly defied the Triumvirate's written will.

And I have always claimed that the letter should have been all Hissrad needed to defy her order.

Again, none of this contradicts Weekes' statements. He never addressed Viddasala, just the Qunari we fought as a whole.

Well, this argument has certainly become rather personal. Remember the Site Rules. No personal attacks against other posters.

Thank you, but I'm used to this kind of treatment. It doesn't bother me.

For your future reference, the two terms are synonyms:
ar·gle-bar·gle

ˌärɡəl ˈbärɡəl/

noun
BRITISHinformal

copious but meaningless talk or writing; nonsense.
"bureaucratic argle-bargle"

Yeah, I wasn't doubting the validity of your terms, just wondering if they applied to the other members who hold the same position. I notice you failed to answer this again.

As to your argument, again, you've failed to apprehend the important distinction between: (i) the Qunari authorizing her mission; and (ii) the Qunari authorizing her means.

No, I understand both concepts quite well. The point that she acted outside her role in feeding lyrium to saarebas or bringing in red lyrium, is one that argues that she has proven herself the type to defy the wishes of her superiors or act in secret. Jerran notices this because he isn't a blind sheep like most of the Qunari.

Now, as to the Triumvirate authorizing the attack on the South, this is a separate issue and I use separate arguments for it. Par Vollen is unable to topple Tevinter alone. There is no way the Qunari could eliminate every head of state in the South let alone invade and occupy those lands. They would be stretched too thin, they would be repelled, and then there would be an Exalted March against Par Vollen that would not end until every Qunari was dead. Even Hissrad understood this, and says as much. An invasion is impossible.

Next, Viddasala intercepting the Triumvirate's letter to the Inquisition, reacting angrily to it, and denying its intended delivery put all of Par Vollen at risk of an Exalted March. This is a blatant example of the Viddasala defying the wishes of the Triumvirate. Had the mission been authorized, there would have been no need for such a reaction and she would not have even intercepted the letter at all, let alone read it. Or she would have at least had it delivered as intended.

The Qunari could have authorized her mission, could have literally told her: "set up bombs all over southern Thedas", and yet in executing her task she could have gone rogue (e.g. by using magic in a forbidden way).

Even if they did, attacking the South has zero to do with researching imaginary books in the Vir Dirthara, spouting lore about Fen'Harel, and trying to feed lyrium to saarebas in hopes that they will be able to replicate Fen'Harel's alleged work. I mean, where exactly did this come in to play concerning an attack on the South? What about the red lyrium, which the Triumvirate went to great lengths to keep from spreading beyond the South? Why manufacture gaatlok in the Darvaarad if the Arigene could simply produce as much as needed? Why was Viddasala focused on so many things at once if her task was to attack the South?

You also don't understand how the Qunari work. There's no indication that the Triumverate authorize anything

Ah, so any Qunari can freely instigate war? Any Qunari can attempt some clandestine and dubious attack on the rest of the world? No. Orders come from the top of their respective branch. The Qunari also believe in strict adherence to societal roles. The Arigena's branch makes gaatlok, for example. The Ben-Hassrath does not.

the codex entries we are given on the Qunari indicate that each of the three are sovereign within their respective zone. This is why, by way of aside, your position on the Arishok is argle-bargle - the only person who is entitled to determine whether it is a demand of the Qun to raze Kirkwall to the ground is the Arishok himself.

Yet he had already stated that it was not his role to raze Kirkwall or take it over or make the bas understand. And your claim is incorrect. More likely such action is determined by the Ariqun, the priesthood, if not all three together, or at least two out of three. The wiki claims that the Ariqun and Arigena ordered the Arishok to go to Kirkwall and find the Tome of Koslun, and together visited Rivain to denounce the Arishok before a group of Chantry officials and Rivaini seers. So clearly he was not authorized to declare what the Qun demanded in that instance.

[rapscallioness]

I like that they had Bull betray you. It really shows how good a liar and spy he (and other Qunari spies?) can be. Oh,wow, and if anybody romanced him with this choice..my sympathies.

 

At any rate, it does show that a Ben Hassrath can completely fool you, and sleep with you while doing it.

 

My favorite part of this is when Weekes said if we're gonna have a Qunari invasion, let's have it already. let's own this. Yaaasss! However, I do not want Tevinter and the Qunari suddenly joining hands and singing Kumbayah against Solas. Too easy. I want things messy and complicated.

 

I would also like to see the Qunari invasion be the more immediate threat with the Solas line in the background. Not too far in the background, but not obvious in your face like the Qunari.

 

If they do go forth with the Qunari are starting war, I hope it has....umph to it. For example, the Qun actually occupying new parts of Tevinter. I would like to see what that's like. I would like to see people being occupied by the Qun. And You as the PC have to figure how to navigate the situation to do what you need to do.  I want to see a before and after difference within Tevinter and/or the surrounding area when the Qun sincerely stops playing around.

 

We'll see. I don;t want them taking on too many big ideas because I want the Qunari and Solas threads to be well fleshed out and give the feeling of a persistent threat throughout the game.

 

**sooo, does Solas have full control of all the Eluvians now? Or do the Qunari still have some backdoor eluvians they control? I also would like to see what they learned during their time in Trespasser. When they were working on theoretical applications of magic and all that. I would love to their notes. Or meet one of the physicists that was working to cipher things.

[thats1evildude]

Apparently, Solas controls all the eluvians. Besides his power boost, it's another reason why he's so friggin' dangerous; he can go anywhere in Thedas that an eluvian leads.

[Xerrai]

 

**sooo, does Solas have full control of all the Eluvians now? Or do the Qunari still have some backdoor eluvians they control? I also would like to see what they learned during their time in Trespasser. When they were working on theoretical applications of magic and all that. I would love to their notes. Or meet one of the physicists that was working to cipher things.

One would assume so, yes.

 

But that's assuming the eluvians no longer work in the same way as Morrigan's mirror (where only power/knowledge is required heedless of affiliation) and that there are no keystones left in thedas that can activate other dormant eluvians (as was the case with eluvian in the Darvaraad). But it really depends on if/how Solas "overrides" these magics, as he did with Briala's passphrase-protected eluvian network.  It will depend if he can get all of the eluvian networks to act as his own and not merely be in possession of them.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I have noticed certain parallels between the geth and Qunari.  

 

I mean they both consider themselves a single entity with each member a tiny fragment of a whole, without an individual identity...

 

It's funny, because I find the Qunari more alien than any of the actual alien species in Mass Effect, save perhaps the Rachni.

 

It just shows how good of a job the writers did in creating a race and system of belief that is really different from conventional human fare, if you ask me.

 

Also, this thread is still going? The lead writer for Trespasser literally said they wanted the threat of Qunari going to war in the story. It doesn't really get any clearer than that, and the Viddasala being a loyal Qunari who decided one day to blow up the courts of South Thedas for funsies makes little sense.

[In Exile]

Shifting through the argle-bargle:

 

Okay. Where did he say it was an official Qunari operation?

 

Right here (because in the real world the rest of us inhabit, things are official without the literal word official being used):

 

That said, when we got to the Qunari, we kicked around different ways to do it. We said 'Oh, okay, maybe it's a rogue faction of the Qunari and they aren't really the real Qunari and Bull doesn't believe in them,' and every time... We tried to talk ourselves into that for a while, like, 'Oh Bull wouldn't do this, they're not the real Qunari, they're an offshoot,' and it just got so toothless. It got to a point where we were like 'No, really, who wants to play a game where you are fighting the offshoot of the offshoot of the offshoot.' We own this. The Qunari aren't being used anywhere but in our games. So if we're gonna say the Qunari are gonna start a war, let's have the Qunari start a war, and let's own it. 

 

No, I understand both concepts quite well. The point that she acted outside her role in feeding lyrium to saarebas or bringing in red lyrium, is one that argues that she has proven herself the type to defy the wishes of her superiors or act in secret. Jerran notices this because he isn't a blind sheep like most of the Qunari.

 

[...]

Even if they did, attacking the South has zero to do with researching imaginary books in the Vir Dirthara, spouting lore about Fen'Harel, and trying to feed lyrium to saarebas in hopes that they will be able to replicate Fen'Harel's alleged work. I mean, where exactly did this come in to play concerning an attack on the South? What about the red lyrium, which the Triumvirate went to great lengths to keep from spreading beyond the South? Why manufacture gaatlok in the Darvaarad if the Arigene could simply produce as much as needed? Why was Viddasala focused on so many things at once if her task was to attack the South?

 

You obviously don't understand the difference between a mission being authorized and the authorized agent nevertheless going rogue by doing things outside the mission parameters, as illustrated by the very post that conflates how the mission could be authorized with examples that you think illustrate the Vidassala going rogue. 

 

In Trespasser she has gone rogue, and she has repurposed the Qunari who are duty bound to obey her. That does not make all those Qunari a rogue faction. They are just following the orders of the one in charge over them. They don't know that she has gone rogue, and this is consistent with Weekes' statements in the interview.

 

This has crossed the pail from argle-bargle to gibberish. I eagerly await the day the "I didn't betray my country because I followed the orders of my immediate superior obviously betraying her country" defence works out. It doesn't matter that her followers are so stupid (or "blind") as to believe that they aren't actually going rogue - they're still a rogue faction if they're not authorized. 

 

Your premise is that the things that the Viddasala does are self-evident proof of her being rogue because they each obviously violate the tenets of the Qun. Yet you also adopt the position that it is unknowable to all of her followers that she is violating the tenets of the Qun. They don't realize all the ways she's violating the Qun because they are "blind sheep". 

 

So unpacking this gibberish, how exactly do you know that any of the things that she does are contrary to the Qun at all? And how are these obvious to you, but not the Qunari?

[9TailsFox]

9 pages. And yes, Beaconer, In Exile, and thesuperdarkone2 will never believe the truth, it seems.

It's like DA2 after Legacy trying to prove Cory not jumped body and is alive all over again. It was so undeniable but some people still try so hard one in particular

[Inkvisiittori]

I like that they had Bull betray you. It really shows how good a liar and spy he (and other Qunari spies?) can be. Oh,wow, and if anybody romanced him with this choice..my sympathies.

 

At any rate, it does show that a Ben Hassrath can completely fool you, and sleep with you while doing it.

 

I think it's interesting that it's that one choice that is the one and only thing that matters in the end. If you side with the Qunari and sacrifice the Chargers then Iron Bull's fate is sealed. It doesn't matter if he was your best friend or lover... I'm not sure if I like or hate that. It's certainly interesting from Inquisitors point of view (especially one who romanced IB)... they have no way to know what caused IB to turn on them. I mean he doesn't really let the Inquisitor see any of his pain. IB even thanks him for reminding him of the truth. Of course the signs of danger are there ("it's just a job", etc)... but still. Something about it annoys me, but on the other hand I think it's brilliant and really shows just how treacherous the Qunari really are. 

[Shechinah]

I think it's interesting that it's that one choice that is the one and only thing that matters in the end. If you side with the Qunari and sacrifice the Chargers then Iron Bull's fate is sealed. It doesn't matter if he was your best friend or lover... I'm not sure if I like or hate that. It's certainly interesting from Inquisitors point of view (especially one who romanced IB)... they have no way to know what caused IB to turn on them. I mean he doesn't really let the Inquisitor see any of his pain. IB even thanks him for reminding him of the truth. Of course the signs of danger are there ("it's just a job", etc)... but still. Something about it annoys me, but on the other hand I think it's brilliant and really shows just how treacherous the Qunari really are.

 
I think it was a good move to make the choice independent from approval and romance since it shows that however much he may like you personally, duty to the Qun is certainty even in the face of personal feelings. The act of sacrificing the Chargers reafirms this belief as he is putting aside his feelings in the face of duty to the Qun and so he puts aside his feelings towards the Inquisitor in the face of duty to the Qun.

 

I rather like that. I think I even love that. 

[Dai Grepher]

At any rate, it does show that a Ben Hassrath can completely fool you, and sleep with you while doing it.

Not really. His Tal-Vashoth version is pretty much the same. And in his Qunari version, he wasn't in on the mission until Viddasala issued her order to him. Either that or he was knowingly killing his fellow Qunari the whole time, in which case, yeah... that would be a pretty convincing deception, if foolish.

My favorite part of this is when Weekes said if we're gonna have a Qunari invasion, let's have it already. let's own this. Yaaasss!

Except that even if the operation had been authorized by the Triumvirate, the DLC ends with the alliance still intact, or at least the Qunari not invading anything.

I would also like to see the Qunari invasion be the more immediate threat with the Solas line in the background. Not too far in the background, but not obvious in your face like the Qunari.

You'll only see that if Tevinter is the main setting of the next game, because that is the only place the Qunari are trying to invade.

I also would like to see what they learned during their time in Trespasser. When they were working on theoretical applications of magic and all that. I would love to their notes. Or meet one of the physicists that was working to cipher things.

Well, that would actually require BioWare to make storyline that matters.

Also, this thread is still going? The lead writer for Trespasser literally said they wanted the threat of Qunari going to war in the story. It doesn't really get any clearer than that, and the Viddasala being a loyal Qunari who decided one day to blow up the courts of South Thedas for funsies makes little sense.

That would describe the entirety of Trespasser, actually. But the threat of the Qunari going to war was never in doubt. The question is if Viddasala was authorized. She didn't need to be authorized for a threat of war with the Qunari to exist. She almost caused one despite the Triumvirate having no knowledge of her actions.

[Dai Grepher]

Right here (because in the real world the rest of us inhabit, things are official without the literal word official being used):

That was in reply to midnight tea's assertion that Weekes described it as an official Qunari invasion. You are being intellectually dishonest here. Midnight tea made a claim, I asked for proof of that claim. I am not demanding any kind of exact statement. I heard what Weekes said, I read the transcript. He never said anything that implies the Qunari operation was authorized by the Triumvirate.

This all stems from canon proof within the game. The letter from the Triumvirate stated that they were not aware of any action against the South. Maybe this was subterfuge, maybe it was an honest reply, but the possibility exists that the Triumvirate did not authorize Viddasala's actions.

Nothing Patrick Weekes said in the interview discounts this possibility. If you disagree with that assessment, please quote the statement you believe discounts it.
 

That said, when we got to the Qunari, we kicked around different ways to do it. We said 'Oh, okay, maybe it's a rogue faction of the Qunari and they aren't really the real Qunari


This says they were considering making those we fought Tal-Vashoth, or Vashoth.
 

and Bull doesn't believe in them,' and every time... We tried to talk ourselves into that for a while, like, 'Oh Bull wouldn't do this, they're not the real Qunari, they're an offshoot,' and it just got so toothless.


First, Hissrad didn't believe in them. He did think they were a rogue group. So this is how Weekes sold the fact Hissrad was killing Qunari the whole time up until Viddasala gave him an order. So that part of the story was kept.

Second, as I wrote before, having them as off-shoot would be toothless, and when Trespasser was first advertised I demanded both that they be official Qunari and that Hissrad have a conflict about who to follow. Still, none of this addresses the question of if Viddasala was authorized or acting on her own.
 

It got to a point where we were like 'No, really, who wants to play a game where you are fighting the offshoot of the offshoot of the offshoot.'


I agree with this. I didn't want to fight Vashoth or Tal-Vashoth either. I wanted to fight real Qunari, and I got my wish on that front.
 

We own this. The Qunari aren't being used anywhere but in our games.


Yes, BioWare owns the Qunari and they aren't being used anywhere but in Dragon Age games. They can do what they want with them.
 

So if we're gonna say the Qunari are gonna start a war, let's have the Qunari start a war, and let's own it.


So I'm guessing this is the statement you think backs up your argument. It doesn't. I'll explain why.

The Qunari we fought were official Qunari, and their actions could have indeed started a war. They didn't, no matter what you think. At the end of Trespasser there is no war. But the threat of war was real because those Qunari were real. Josephine's letter to the Triumvirate also clearly stated that unless they replied with assurances, these actions would be interpreted as an act of war.

So Weekes is perfectly correct in this statement. The Qunari we fought in the game were trying to start a war under Viddasala's orders. They failed to start a war, but they tried to.

None of this proves that the Triumvirate authorized any of the actions performed by these Qunari. According to the Triumvirate, they had no knowledge of any of it. Meaning, it was all Viddasala acting on her own.

Now let me tell you why Weekes did it this way. It was so he could have his cake and eat it too. But as we all know, the cake is a lie. Weekes was able to have a storyline where actual Qunari almost start a world war between the South and Par Vollen, and at the same time have it to where the Triumvirate knew nothing about it, and thus could plausibly defuse the whole situation by honestly disavowing the actions of those lower ranking Qunari.

Also notice the parallel between the Triumvirate and the Inquisition during Trespasser. The Inquisition, without regard to player choice, has grown into a massive military power. As a result, you now face betrayal and corruption. The Qunari face the same problems. Just as you can't be blamed for the actions of Leliana or Cullen hiding things from the Council, or for the actions of (not) your agent in detaining the palace servant, the Triumvirate can't be blamed if one of their trusted agent's defies their will and launches her own secret operations.
 

You obviously don't understand the difference between a mission being authorized and the authorized agent nevertheless going rogue by doing things outside the mission parameters

Again, you are being intellectually dishonest. I already explained that the examples I pointed out of Viddasala acting outside of her role are not proof that Dragon's Breath was unauthorized, rather it is proof that she is the type of person to act outside of her role, and thus it is possible that she acted outside her role in taking action against the South.
 

as illustrated by the very post that conflates how the mission could be authorized with examples that you think illustrate the Vidassala going rogue.

What examples? Intercepting the Triumvirate's reply letter and crumpling it up? I did not present that just as proof of her acting outside her role. I presented it as proof that she was not authorized by the Triumvirate. Her actions in that regard prove she was actively defying the Triumvirate. She was indeed rogue.
 

This has crossed the pail from argle-bargle to gibberish. I eagerly await the day the "I didn't betray my country because I followed the orders of my immediate superior obviously betraying her country" defence works out.

Dragon Age II, Act II.
 

It doesn't matter that her followers are so stupid (or "blind") as to believe that they aren't actually going rogue - they're still a rogue faction if they're not authorized.

That is your opinion. Not Weekes'. He did not consider them a rogue group, even if Viddasala was acting without authorization. It is possible for a leader to go rogue with a legitimate group of Qunari.

The same thing happened in DA2. The Arishok went rogue and ordered actual Qunari to attack Kirkwall. The Arishok was disavowed by the Triumvirate, and the Arishok even admitted before this that he was not authorized to attack Kirkwall.

It's the same case with Viddasala. She was never authorized to take any actions against the South. She did it on her own. It was her choice alone.

Besides, there were those under her command who questioned her actions. She had to write a letter convincing them to stick to the mission. Jerran she had to kill.
 

Your premise is that the things that the Viddasala does are self-evident proof of her being rogue because they each obviously violate the tenets of the Qun.

I wrote that it is proof that she is the type to act outside of her role. She is willing to violate the Qun if it serves some goal that she believes advances the Qun. It doesn't automatically mean that Dragon's Breath was her idea, just that its possible that it was.

Someone here just made a post scoffing at the idea that it was all Viddasala's "silly" plan. Well, her bringing in red lyrium when the Triumvirate went to great lengths to prevent its spread outside the South seems quite "silly" as well. Yet, she did it anyway. And there is a note at the Darvaarad proving that her agents were filing incomplete reports with the guard. They were being deceptive even to their own people.
 

Yet you also adopt the position that it is unknowable to all of her followers that she is violating the tenets of the Qun. They don't realize all the ways she's violating the Qun because they are "blind sheep".

I wrote most. Some did question her, but she either deceived them further with assurances, or if they were insightful like Jerran, then she killed them.
 

So unpacking this gibberish, how exactly do you know that any of the things that she does are contrary to the Qun at all? And how are these obvious to you, but not the Qunari?

Keep in mind that most of the Qunari were not even aware of her actions. They were given specific orders, and they carried them out like good little drones. They didn't know what she was up to.

Of those who did have suspicion, they were either given meaningless assurances, kept in the dark, or killed. Viddasala wrote a letter explaining why they had to be in the Vir Dirthara, because they didn't understand why they had to expose themselves to such a place. She kept the Darvaarad gatekeeper in the dark by telling her agents to be vague in their descriptions of where they found various relics. The gate guard even becomes so frustrated at this that he requisitions a murder knife from his sten. And then there is Jerran, who blatantly tells us that Viddasala has gone mad. He wound up dead.

Then there is Hissrad himself. He said the entire time that Viddasala was acting strange, was acting outside her role, that this must be a rogue operation, that an official Qunari invasion was impossible at that point in time, and that if there were an invasion attempt he would have been told about it.

Now you might say, "Well... he was told." Well then why did he kill one Qunari after another right up until Viddasala barked her order? Had it been official, he would have known, and had he known, he would have attacked the Inquisitor at the elvhen temple instead of his own people.