83 réponses à ce sujet

[10K]

I think the reason why they took out HWs is because the game would be kinda hard to balance.
An example of this was back in ME2, using the Cain to rekt the Geth Colossus. That was supposed to be a challenging scene, and yet with one click you pretty much won the fight (insanity required a bit more of shooting, but still).
I'm assuming this is what they wanted to avoid in ME3.

Really? Come on, let's keep it real. EAware games are never challengeing to begin with. One of the main reasons being is the AI never fights on the same footing as the player, the player always has advantages; class abilities being one. Which is why I think the only challenging fights in Shepard's trilogy were Tela Vasir and Shepard's clone. They were the only ones basically on the same playing field as the player. So that geth colossus wasn't really challenging to begin with. With or without a heavy weapon, it could get rekt with charge shotgun combo straight out of the gate or any combo from any class if the player knew how to use their class effectively. The only thing heavy weapons did was let you kill things a bit faster; challenge was never effected.

If balancing was EAware reason for not giving up heavy weapons then they should have taken a step back and really examined ME3, because it was not at all balanced. Prime example: Vanguard class; it is broken. You can literally use charge and nova non-stop, killing everything. Those two abilities synergize so well there was barely a cool down for charge.

Charge cool down is what balanced it in ME2. The player had to be careful of how they charged. A lot of players handicapped themselves, restricting themselves from using nova, just to make insanity more challenging. Adding heavy weapons would have been the least of their problems, as far as balancing goes.

[Onewomanarmy]

I really loved the Collector Particle Beam and the Hand Cannon! XD

[Remix-General Aetius]

Avalanche & Arc Projector GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!

 

[Teabaggin Krogan]

I wouldn't mind having heavy weapons back, but I want a crowd-shredding energy weapon that acts like some sort of futuristic death-dealing machine gun that makes cover irrelevant. Like so!: 

 

 

We already have that, it's called armor piercing ammo with piercing mods. Stack that penetration with the geth scanner if you like your reapers served with extra cheese.

 

As for heavy weapons, I really really like the Cain despite the numerous times I shot myself in the foot with it. Same with the collector beam and the firestorm which is the perfect choice of weapon for a vanguard. Hell yeah, sign me up!

[shodiswe]

I'm game. Bonus points if we're given a choice to carry or not carry them with us.

 

Maybe they could cost resources for ammo. Or assigning them to NPC squads could yield a different bonus as they might become more sucessful in their mission with added firepower.

 

I could see some free heavy weapons salvaged from enemies and enemy weaponslockers/vehicles.

 

I wouldn't mind limited heavy weapons. It would be kind of like those emergency rockets in ME3 multiplayer, you never had those in singleplayer unless one happend to be laying about in the map you were on. The ME2 ones did look fairly cool though. 

[10K]

Am I the only person who uses the ML-77?
Yes? OK then.

Yes friend, yes you are

[Remix-General Aetius]

Maybe they could cost resources for ammo. Or assigning them to NPC squads could yield a different bonus as they might become more sucessful in their mission with added firepower.

 

I could see some free heavy weapons salvaged from enemies and enemy weaponslockers/vehicles.

 

Bioware would have to compensate for the extra firepower by increasing enemy health or increasing the number of enemies we have on screen at one time. Otherwise we'd be able to play the game with our eyes closed. Wouldn't be much fun just plowing through everything.

 

I definitely love the idea of enemies using the same heavies against us. But GOD the ML-77 SUCKED. There's a vanguard asari blasting me into oblivion right in front of me, and the retarded missiles are targetting an Eclipse merc 20 feet away.

 

RANDOM TARGETTING BLOWS.

[10K]

Bioware would have to compensate for the extra firepower by increasing enemy health or increasing the number of enemies we have on screen at one time. Otherwise we'd be able to play the game with our eyes closed. Wouldn't be much fun just plowing through everything.

Please no, no more hoards of enemies, that's just tedious not challenging. What EAware need to do is create special enimies whom can withstand heavy weapons via special suits i.e power armor, or special abilities like what Jack did to save her students. EAware need to make more intelligent enimies with a variety of actual abilities like the player, not just give them more health (definitely not more health, this is how bullet sponges are created, this again is just tedious) and throw waves of them at the player. This is the only way to balance these games, let the AI utilize everything the player can in a smart way. The only fight that had the AI almost on the same level as the player, as far as combat goes, was the clone fight in ME3 on insanity it was a nice change and we need more fights like that.

[Remix-General Aetius]

Please no, no more hoards of enemies, that's just tedious not challenging. What EAware need to do is create special enimies whom can withstand heavy weapons via special suits i.e power armor, or special abilities like what Jack did to save her students. EAware need to make more intelligent enimies with a variety of actual abilities like the player, not just give them more health (definitely not more health, this is how bullet sponges are created, this again is just tedious) and throw waves of them at the player. This is the only way to balance these games, let the AI utilize everything the player can in a smart way. The only fight that had the AI almost on the same level as the player, as far as combat goes, was the clone fight in ME3 on insanity it was a nice change and we need more fights like that.

 

Show me a game that actually does this.

[10K]

Show me a game that actually does this.

I never said any other game did this, I only said that's what they needed instead of just upping the number of enemies on screen and giving them more health. More enemies with more health does make a game balanced or challenging. 

 

Edit: But Actually EAware was really close with the clone fight, so I wouldn't say it's impossible. 

[Remix-General Aetius]

I never said any other game did this, I only said that's what they needed instead of just upping the number of enemies on screen and giving them more health. More enemies with more health does make a game balanced or challenging. 

 

Edit: But Actually EAware was really close with the clone fight, so I would say it's impossible. 

 

Eh, what? You just contradicted yourself.

[10K]

Eh, what? You just contradicted yourself.

How so. I said EAware came close, not that they did it. So where's the contradiction? 

 

Edit: Never mind I see, that is a typo, I meant to say wouldn't not would LOL

[Chealec]

 

The last weapon you'll ever need.

[Halfdan The Menace]

Speaking of heavy weapons, can I have the massive warhammer used by Tartarus in Halo 2? seriously that thing is badass... smashing everything in its path..

[UpUpAway]

I liked the HWs in ME2, but I liked the weight factor in ME3 more.  If the HWs count towards the PCs weight factor, I think it would just stop most players from even bothering to carry them... which is likely why the placed HWs in certain battlefields in ME3.  Why not have it so that certain squadmates can carry a HW to the battlefleld for the PC and hand it to the PC when requested?

[Rascoth]

^Even with weight factor, (imo) soldiers would benefit greatly from being able to carry heavy weapons. Maybe they wouldn't be left behind other classes so much.

[UpUpAway]

^Even with weight factor, (imo) soldiers would benefit greatly from being able to carry heavy weapons. Maybe they wouldn't be left behind other classes so much.

 

Almost never used HWs myself, even in ME2 and even with a soldier class even in insanity... just enjoyed the added challenge of not using them.  In ME3, I had my soldier carry only a light assault rifle and got the +200 weight factor... which was great for utilizing his/her bonus power combined with adrenaline rush... so, I would probably be one of those people who would just opt to leave the HW behind if it were added into the weight factor (probably swinging the weight bonus into the negative numbers and lengthening the power cooldown inordinately).  If they did do it this way, it wouldn't upset me though.  I just thought it might be kind of different and cool to be able to ask a particular squadmate to give you an HW they were carrying during the heat of battle.

[CHRrOME]

On the contrary, I think the HW slot allows for better balance - especially for the multiplayer section of the game.

How about instead of opting for the Cobra missile launcher, you could have other heavy weapons as part of your loadout - Cain, Blackstorm, Ladon missile swarm, and so on.

Additionally, we could move certain existing weapons to the heavy weapon slot and them buff them up - the Typhoon and the Geth Spitfire come to mind. By moving them heavy class their damage output could be significantly buffed without presenting a balance problem.

 

Oh, I absolutely agree for MP. I was just talking about SP.

 

When talking about guns like the Geth Spitfire or the Flamer I'd actually like to move those into some other category. Something pseudo-heavy, because they're not as damaging as something like a Blackstorm or a Cain.

Maybe a "support" category. Here we'll have all this pseudo heavy weapons like the shitty M-77, the Flamer, the Geth Spit Fire (with actual good damage this time around), etc. Just an idea though.

[Rascoth]

Almost never used HWs myself, even in ME2 and even with a soldier class even in insanity... just enjoyed the added challenge of not using them.  In ME3, I had my soldier carry only a light assault rifle and got the +200 weight factor... which was great for utilizing his/her bonus power combined with adrenaline rush... so, I would probably be one of those people who would just opt to leave the HW behind if it were added into the weight factor (probably swinging the weight bonus into the negative numbers and lengthening the power cooldown inordinately).  If they did do it this way, it wouldn't upset me though.  I just thought it might be kind of different and cool to be able to ask a particular squadmate to give you an HW they were carrying during the heat of battle.

The truth is I wouldn't use them much either (heck, most of the time I don't use them in ME2 as well), but I definitely missed heavy weapons during my ME3 soldier run (and vanguard run). Especially during my soldier run (my Arc Projector *sniff*). I'm not sure if it was for gameplay reasons or because I felt something was missing on their backs (contrary to "finally gone!" feeling I have when I can carry less while playing adept or other "lighter" class).

 

Tho I like your idea with squadmates.

[Remix-General Aetius]

How so. I said EAware came close, not that they did it. So where's the contradiction? 

 

Edit: Never mind I see, that is a typo, I meant to say wouldn't not would LOL

 

You're developing a grandma brain.

[CrutchCricket]

Speaking of heavy weapons, can I have the massive warhammer used by Tartarus in Halo 2? seriously that thing is badass... smashing everything in its path..

Play the Warlord in MP.
 

I liked the HWs in ME2, but I liked the weight factor in ME3 more.  If the HWs count towards the PCs weight factor, I think it would just stop most players from even bothering to carry them... which is likely why the placed HWs in certain battlefields in ME3.  Why not have it so that certain squadmates can carry a HW to the battlefleld for the PC and hand it to the PC when requested?

The weight system was garbage. How does having more weight on my back affect the deployment time of tech abilities, or even biotocs? Sure biotics require energy and stamina to cast but if you follow that logically it'd mean you could perfect cast at the start of a mission but your abilities would get progressively worse.

That might make for an interesting game mode actually.

Also inb4 "balance". A better way to do that would be to just restrict the amount of weapons you could carry again but allow you to buy into carrying more but at the cost of some powers (the exception of course being soldier).
 

^Even with weight factor, (imo) soldiers would benefit greatly from being able to carry heavy weapons. Maybe they wouldn't be left behind other classes so much.

I wouldn't want to get locked out of heavy weapons playing a non-solider class but I can see the reasoning why soldiers should get better access to HW's.
 

When talking about guns like the Geth Spitfire or the Flamer I'd actually like to move those into some other category. Something pseudo-heavy, because they're not as damaging as something like a Blackstorm or a Cain.
Maybe a "support" category. Here we'll have all this pseudo heavy weapons like the shitty M-77, the Flamer, the Geth Spit Fire (with actual good damage this time around), etc. Just an idea though.

I like this idea.

 

Really heavy "wtf boom" type weapons like the Cain and Blackstar should be reserved for plot-specific situations, i.e. you actually have to nuke something to progress. "Lesser" HW's should go back to being worn full time as a fifth weapon category.

 

In terms of lolbalance, again you can make it so non-soldiers can only equip 2 or 3 out of the 5 weapon categories with the option to upgrade to more at the cost of powers or movement speed or something. Perhaps have different categories "weigh" more so sniper/AR/HW isn't viable without upgrades for the lighter classes.

 

Maybe something like

 

Heavy weapons/Specialty weapons- Type: Heavy, Slot: Center back.

AR/Sniper/Shotgun- Type: Medium, Slot: Upper Right, Left, Lower back, respectively.

Pistols/SMGs- Type: Light, Slot: Left/Right Hip

 

Pure caster classes (adept, eng) can only do medium, light, (light) out of the gate, hybrids can do medium(x3), medium, medium, light or medium, heavy, light, depending on the type, soldiers can do it all.  You can spec into extra carrying capacity but at the cost of either some powers altogether, power effectiveness/cooldown or movement speed. I'd prefer the first or the latter.

 

On another note, I'd also like to see more built in weapons like Destroyer's shoulder mounted missile launcher, thus making more of a move towards powered armor. Actually that could be another way to decide weapon/power balance. Introduce light, medium and heavy armors which enable you to carry different weapons with the lighter side obviously being more power/gadgets oriented, while the heavy is pure weapons. This might eliminate the need for classes altogether, apart from the biotic/tech distinction.

[pkypereira]

Arc Projector all the way

[UpUpAway]

The weight system was garbage. How does having more weight on my back affect the deployment time of tech abilities, or even biotocs? Sure biotics require energy and stamina to cast but if you follow that logically it'd mean you could perfect cast at the start of a mission but your abilities would get progressively worse.

That might make for an interesting game mode actually.

 

I liked that the weight system because it me to be selective about which weapons I carried on different missions rather than imposing things like a certain class that was never "train-able" in a certain type of weapon.  I think it's perfectly realistic that even biotics could have had individual preferences for weapons and probably some would have relied more heavily on their weapons than others.  I've played several different soldier builds... a couple of those didn't carry an assault rifle, but rather carried a sniper rifle instead or just a pistol & smg instead.  I would select a different bonus power to compliment the type of weapon(s) my soldier(s) preferred to use.  It was a way of mixing up the game play a little bit without actually changing the class of Shepard I had.

 

I think the player should be able to make their own selection based on their preferred game play and giving them a weight consideration was a way to allow the player to do just that without allowing them to just carry everything.  Bah on speculating whether or not carrying weight should "logically' affect the casting of tech or biotic powers.  Tech and biotic powers are pure fiction anyways.  As a game play mechanic... the weight thing added a little "extra" factor that I could manipulate in order to just play the game... and I LIKED IT.

 

You say you'd like the idea of abilities getting progressively worse throughout a mission.  I wouldn't mind it personally... but I bet a lot of other people would complain as they typically put the toughest battles with the toughest enemies at the end of a mission level rather than the beginning.  Perhaps cool downs and such should lengthen if your health bar isn't right up to snuff and limit it so that you can only use a Medi-Gel to boost yourself after your health bar is down, say, 2 or even 3 whole sections.

[Onewomanarmy]

Arc Projector all the way

 

Yes I liked that one too! 

[iM3GTR]

Yes friend, yes you are

It was the only (non DLC) heavy weapon that looked OK on Shepard's back.