83 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

The system I had in mind would work like this: Weapons use actual ammo, thermal clips cease to exist. Universal ammo clips allow the weapons to manufacture the needed bullet (or mini grenade) internally. Each weapon houses a small mass effect generator that propels the ammo out of the gun. Each gun has an internal battery to power that generator. This is okay for personal sidearms but for serious combat you need more, thus you wear an armored suit. The suit has additional batteries that power the shields, movement speed enhancements, tech/biotic powers (the implant works without it, but the biotic amp benefits from more energy) and of course, the weapons. Only the active weapon draws energy though. The more energy a weapon can use, the faster it shoots and the more damage it does.

 

The player balances shield strength, shield recharge, movement speed, cooldowns, melee attacks (omni blade) and weapon ROF/damage against each other, allowing for maximum flexibility in their choice of weapon or combat style. It would require changes to the armor, too. Ideally you'd be able to pick a look or design and then upgrade the individual pieces ... so over the course of the game you can keep your appearance but the stats improve.

 

Additionally you can put any weapon into each of the six weapon slots on the armor (5 were meh because pistol and SMG shared the same and that didn't work), allowing you to carry multiple weapons of the same kind, like two pistols. You can still only use one at a time, but again... it makes you more flexible. Now you could wield an Acolyte and a Paladin, for example. Or a Hurricane modded for max penetration and a second one modded for max damage.

 

The only weapons without ammo would be the particle weapons like the CSR and PPR which would require massive amounts of energy (compared to the other guns).

 

Heavy weapons would continue to use seperate ammo.

 

That's my 2 cents for gameplay changes.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Nether can a biotic

 

A biotic can throw biotics around a corner though.

[ZipZap2000]

A biotic can throw biotics around a corner.

 

 

But can a corner curve a biotic bullet around a bend or even bend a bullet by a bend by a biotic bent on breaking barriers? Could see Kaiden crouched curving calibres but the question is could Krogan kill around curve or corner or be driven round the bend by a biotic Batarian baring bendy bullets?
 

[CrutchCricket]

The canon "internal" logic of ME3 (fiction) was that excess weight did slow down power usage.  It's a fact built into the game.  You're just challenging the author based on bringing in your own outside logic with a "why should it" because you didn't like the system.  Not liking the system is your prerogative, liking it is mine.  My interpretation of the author's logic is every bit as valid as yours... note every bit as valid... not more valid... not less valid.  The RL author's logic was most likely that they wanted to introduce some variety between the 3 games so they switched up the mechanics a little bit.  They also gave you the ability to arbitrarily change your soldier Shepard into an Adept if you wanted; they also changed and then eventually eliminating hacking; and they also changed how planets were scanned, etc.  It was change for the sake of change just to keep the 3 different games a bit fresh. 

 

It may not have made the 3 works as consistent as they could have been, but it was probably a good real world move on their part from the very real world perspective of maintaining sales.  In the real world, the author can (if they want) be inconsistent in a work of fiction.  You can criticize it for being not good fiction.  That is also your prerogative.  It's also my prerogative to treat each game as a separate work of fiction and not let it bother me. 

 

However, we weren't discussing the quality of the fiction here.  I was merely stating that I liked the particular game mechanic of using a weight factor and I game my reasons for liking it.  You're the one who, in your response to my post, presumed to tell me that your suggestions were "superior" to mine "in every way."  BS I say... your likes are different than mine, your suggestions are different than mine, and, obviously, your ego is larger than mine.

 

Furthermore, there is nothing holding ME:A to ME1-3's already inconsistent "logic."  Bioware has openly stated an intention to stray from the events of ME1-3 and they WILL most likely change a number of the mechanics of the game... and no doubt people here will instantly rag on them for it because ragging on Bioware is what they "like" to do.  However, I would be surprised if people would be happy if they just went back to all the "logic" of ME1 only and released ME:A with all the same game mechanics they had in that game.

First off, unrustle your jimmies.

 

Secondly, read my posts again.

 

Thirdly look up the definitions of "lore" and "gameplay mechanic". Note that neither are universally exempt from logic.

 

There's really not much more to say.

 

I actually prefer the weight/CD system to restricted weapons, especially if they're restricted by class - it allows for more variety. I'm not really sure restricting the number of weapons slots would "solve" anything anyway; Claymore QFE in MP is pretty badass - and she's only carrying one gun. Ditto on the HI.

 

You can carry the same sort of logic across to SP unless you're desperate to pack a sniper rifle. I'm pretty sure my last ME3 play-through (as a soldier) I only carried one gun through virtually the whole game ... OK, it was the Harrier which is a bit like easy mode but still.

 

The Weight/CD system means that you'll suffer at least some negative side-effect from packing a hand-cannon in either SP or MP (certain MP classes notwithstanding - Demogirl for instance) - swapping powers for weapons slots would just be mitigated by slapping on a single Claymore/Harrier/Reeger etc.

Fair enough, but if we're talking single weapons that outclass everything that's getting into more into pure weapon balance, as opposed to a weapon/power split where you might ask "should you have weapons this powerful at the base level"? I didn't say my suggestion would be the end-all fix. Still there are other ways you could account for that that are better than the weight system. Make the OP weapons "endgame" like the Master Spectre weapons in ME1 or the almost prohibitively expensive Spectre weapons in ME3 for example. Or take them off the universal ammo pool and limit their use that way. And what do you think of movement speed penalties (a more logical result of being overburdened)? Sure, you can still strap the hand of God Claymore on your skinny little adept, but if they move at snail's pace and get shredded as a result, it's not so good, is it?

 

Or go with something like the suggestion below:

 

The system I had in mind would work like this: Weapons use actual ammo, thermal clips cease to exist. Universal ammo clips allow the weapons to manufacture the needed bullet (or mini grenade) internally. Each weapon houses a small mass effect generator that propels the ammo out of the gun. Each gun has an internal battery to power that generator. This is okay for personal sidearms but for serious combat you need more, thus you wear an armored suit. The suit has additional batteries that power the shields, movement speed enhancements, tech/biotic powers (the implant works without it, but the biotic amp benefits from more energy) and of course, the weapons. Only the active weapon draws energy though. The more energy a weapon can use, the faster it shoots and the more damage it does.

 

The player balances shield strength, shield recharge, movement speed, cooldowns, melee attacks (omni blade) and weapon ROF/damage against each other, allowing for maximum flexibility in their choice of weapon or combat style. It would require changes to the armor, too. Ideally you'd be able to pick a look or design and then upgrade the individual pieces ... so over the course of the game you can keep your appearance but the stats improve.

 

Additionally you can put any weapon into each of the six weapon slots on the armor (5 were meh because pistol and SMG shared the same and that didn't work), allowing you to carry multiple weapons of the same kind, like two pistols. You can still only use one at a time, but again... it makes you more flexible. Now you could wield an Acolyte and a Paladin, for example. Or a Hurricane modded for max penetration and a second one modded for max damage.

 

The only weapons without ammo would be the particle weapons like the CSR and PPR which would require massive amounts of energy (compared to the other guns).

 

Heavy weapons would continue to use seperate ammo.

 

That's my 2 cents for gameplay changes.

This an excellent suggestion. And it would even allow a weight like mechanic for those so enamored with it. If all weapons, powers etc are dependent on the same onboard system for energy (enter your technobable here for logical lore reasons why this is so) then it would make sense why heavier weapons draw more power, and thus you're forced to make a tradeoff in other areas (powers, cooldowns, shields etc)

[UpUpAway]

First off, unrustle your jimmies.

 

Secondly, read my posts again.

 

Thirdly look up the definitions of "lore" and "gameplay mechanic". Note that neither are universally exempt from logic.

 

There's really not much more to say.

 

Fair enough, but if we're talking single weapons that outclass everything that's getting into more into pure weapon balance, as opposed to a weapon/power split where you might ask "should you have weapons this powerful at the base level"? I didn't say my suggestion would be the end-all fix. Still there are other ways you could account for that that are better than the weight system. Make the OP weapons "endgame" like the Master Spectre weapons in ME1 or the almost prohibitively expensive Spectre weapons in ME3 for example. Or take them off the universal ammo pool and limit their use that way. Or go with something like the suggestion below:

 

This an excellent suggestion. And it would even allow a weight like mechanic for those so enamored with it. If all weapons, powers etc are dependent on the same onboard system for energy (enter your technobable here for logical lore reasons why this is so) then it would make sense why heavier weapons draw more power, and thus you're forced to make a tradeoff in other areas (powers, cooldowns, shields etc)

 

The "logic" you're trying to apply and convince me of is not "logical" given that ME3 basically canonized the idea that weapon weight does slow down power usage.  You didn't like it, but that's the way it was done.  Since powers are fictional, there is no real world logic other than the real world logic that powers and omnitools don't exist.  Since it's fiction, the author of the fiction ultimately decides what is and is not logical... and they literally "weighed" in on it in ME3.  All you  can do at this point is basically decry it as bad writing, but it still doesn't change it... What's done is done.  Bioware has the option to change it completely for ME:A or not.  Their decision... not yours or mine.  Given their pattern of changing things up between games, I suspect that ME:A won't be the same as any of ME1, ME2, or ME3.  Whether the differences will suit your "logic" just depends on what they do.  If it doesn't, you still won't be able to change it.

 

Still irrelevant to the fact that, as a game play mechanic, I liked it.  Oh, BTW, my jimmies are just fine, thank you.

[Chealec]

...

 

Sure, you can still strap the hand of God Claymore on your skinny little adept, but if they move at snail's pace and get shredded as a result, it's not so good, is it?

 

...

 

I actually quite like DaemionMoadrin's suggestion about balancing powers/weapons against everything - including movement speed... but then I'd want that to head back towards old-skool RPGs with stats; balance physical prowess against mental - movement speed against biotic damage. Or "batteries" for engineers - the bigger they are the heavier they are so again you have a trade off.

 

See - I don't buy into the "skinny little adept" idea. I didn't buy into the D&D style skinny mage idea either for that matter. Give me Ultima Online where you could have a mage with a massive Halberd (spike damage) or Shadowrun where a rocket-launcher wielding Ork mage was a perfectly viable (even good) choice.

 

Even (the somewhat flawed) Brink separated body-types from classes - huge beefy soldier with a mini-gun or a scrawny, fast moving soldier with an SMG.

 

 

In short - I don't really like D&D/CRPG style character classes.

[DaemionMoadrin]

This an excellent suggestion. And it would even allow a weight like mechanic for those so enamored with it. If all weapons, powers etc are dependent on the same onboard system for energy (enter your technobable here for logical lore reasons why this is so) then it would make sense why heavier weapons draw more power, and thus you're forced to make a tradeoff in other areas (powers, cooldowns, shields etc)

 

The difference is, I wouldn't add a weight limit. If you want to carry 5 guns on top of your heavy weapon, go right ahead. The only one drawing energy from the suit's battery is the one in your hand (this isn't even technobabble, that's how it would work if we built it) so you even get tactical options like wielding the pistol so you have more energy left for your shield and movement. After you sprinted into cover like that, you could then switch to the heavy shotgun.

Aside from that you can't change your setup during combat, you mod your suit and weapons back on your ship. A larger battery in the suit means you have more energy to distribute to the various systems but it might also mean you have to choose a smaller shield generator that isn't quite as strong.

Of course, towards the end of the game you'll have discovered and researched more and better mods, so the disadvantages will be kept to a minimum.

Weight limit makes no sense since you have a mass effect generator in your suit, so ... just reduce all the weight to zero and you're done.

 

Another point: Some species, like the Krogan, had weapon slots on their armor (on top of their hump) that they couldn't possibly reach with their short arms. In those cases I'd restrict them to the lower three slots but give them bonus energy to balance it out.

 

My next step would be to abolish the class system (viva la revolution!) ... meaning there wouldn't be any adepts, engineers, soldiers etc... you could pick and choose the abilities you want. Tactical Cloak and Biotic Charge? Sure, go right ahead if you want it. Since the protagonist has always been able to pick all the bonus powers, we can assume they've always been biotic tech specialist vanguards anyway. Now we just make it official.

 

One step further would let us create, mod and upgrade our powers. Could easily be balanced with more damage leading to a longer cooldown (because it depends on your suit's capability to recharge your amp/omni-tool). Maybe you could add extra effects to existing powers. For example, Nova combined with Neural Shock would stun every enemy that survived the blast, giving you a much better survival chance. Tons of possibilities.

 

Of course, we'll never see any of this going into an AAA game. Most gamers just want to sit down and shoot stuff, they don't want to fiddle with settings, mods and abilities for an hour before seeing action.

[rashie]

If I can have the Arc Projector back I'm happy, thing was awesome in spots like the collector ship ambush.

[MissOuJ]

If I can have the Arc Projector back I'm happy, thing was awesome in spots like the collector ship ambush.

 

That, and the Cain.

 

God, I love that thing. That and the heavy mech headshot nuke. Much explosion, me gusta