152 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

They have industrialized death camps. I cannot fathom the thought process that starts with "our villains are basically worse than the Nazis" and ends up "... and so they were the good guys all along!" 

some very isolated writers I imagine

[Ieldra]

Inevitable Desire? A rather strong word from whom  your bias shine

You are inappropriately extending your own vision of the matter to all humanity when it is clear that persons who don't care for power do exist.

I think I have a reasonable case for claiming that almost every human desires the power to control their own life. If you think that's not what power is, consider that this includes the power to curb the ambitions of those who would take that control from them.

[MonkeyLungs]

Mass Effect and Dragon Age. My two favorite game series of all time.

 

This will sound like a cop out but which series I like more can change. Especially when I do a full trilogy playthrough of either series. Invariably I get wrapped up in ther series I am playing at the time and it takes time, and me stepping back to re-evaluate the situation.

 

I like the part 1's of each series the most but it's a really close call with Dragon Age. Inquisition almost made me like it as much as Origins and there is a LOT that I think is better about Inquisition and on some days I do like Inquisition better ... but then I remember Origins and how awesome it is. I don't believe I have ever wavered on Mass Effect though. Part 1 all the way for me (that doesn't mean I don't like 2 and 3).

[Jackums]

DA. I prefer the setting/genre, characters, and philosophical/ethical themes. I also prefer the style of story-telling (multiple protagonists).

 

In terms of actual mechanics, DA also has the edge for me for race selection and superior romance options, if not purely in quantity.

[AlanC9]

They have industrialized death camps. I cannot fathom the thought process that starts with "our villains are basically worse than the Nazis" and ends up "... and so they were the good guys all along!"

I've sometimes wondered if gas chambers wouldn't be the good response to Middle-Earth's Orcish Question. But yeah, in ME we are the orcs.

[CronoDragoon]

The biggest difference to me is that Mass Effect 3 (and to a lesser extent 2) have legitimately enjoyable combat systems, whereas DAO and DA2's I merely tolerate, and DAI's only bumped the series up to "adequate."

 

From the story side of things, I enjoy both styles. I enjoy Dragon Age telling a continent's story as opposed to a single PC's, with the PC being unable to influence the direction that Thedas is heading in many respects. I also love playing Space Jesus through three games with everyone rightfully bowing to Shepard. It's an excellent ego trip.

[BansheeOwnage]

They have industrialized death camps. I cannot fathom the thought process that starts with "our villains are basically worse than the Nazis" and ends up "... and so they were the good guys all along!" 

That makes two of us.

[In Exile]

That makes two of us.

Then again, this is a group that thought cerberus in ME2 was portrayed as grey despite basically all the fascism, attempted coup d'etats and general corruption and odious human experimentation.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

I think I have a reasonable case for claiming that almost every human desires the power to control their own life. If you think that's not what power is, consider that this includes the power to curb the ambitions of those who would take that control from them.

It is a limit case where such strength is used against oppressors and that is not  a desire for power rather the need of it.

you created a special scenario in order to extend the claim as universal for everyone but that doesn't mean that everyone desire power.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Then again, this is a group that thought cerberus in ME2 was portrayed as grey despite basically all the fascism, attempted coup d'etats and general corruption and odious human experimentation.

 

To be absolutely fair, the Council that opposes them aren't all sunshine and roses either.

[GoldenGail3]

DA. Becuase ME was boring and full of unnessary cliches.

[Medhia_Nox]

Well I definitely prefer hard or fairly hard scifi as well. That's part of the reason why ME1 is my favourite game of the ME trilogy. It got a lot less hard after that.

 

And for people who don't know, "hard" or "soft" scifi refers to how grounded in reality the work is, basically.

 

Mass Effect is definitely classified as science fantasy. 

 

Even "Soft" science-fiction has to be plausible with current theories.  

 

- Eezo alone removes Mass Effect from science-"fiction" and turn it into science-fantasy.  

 

- Biotics are not possible.  The fact that it requires tech to use doesn't instantly make it science-fiction. 

 

@AlanC:  We're the orcs in reality too... and the darkspawn... and, oh, every evil species that utterly destroys its environment in fantasy or sci-fi.  

[Mistic]

Mass Effect is definitely classified as science fantasy. 

 

Even "Soft" science-fiction has to be plausible with current theories.  

 

- Eezo alone removes Mass Effect from science-"fiction" and turn it into science-fantasy.  

 

- Biotics are not possible.  The fact that it requires tech to use doesn't instantly make it science-fiction. 

 

I think BansheeOwnage and you are talking about different ways of looking at science-fiction. Some do consider that the difference between "hard" and "soft" depends on how scientifically plausible the story is, instead of limiting "soft" to sociological or psychological speculative fiction. Personally, I always thought that science fantasy was a genre more related to pulp planetary romances or the inclusion of deliberate magical aspects in it.

 

In Mass Effect's case, it's the kind of science-fiction that relies on the "one big lie" trope: suspend your disbelief for this concept and we'll build a sci-fi scenario out of it. In this case, the obvious "big lie" is element zero.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Mistic:  Biotics aren't a deliberate magical aspect? 

Yes.. I know they have a "psychic" gloss which is popular in sci-fi to get away with magic... but, let's be serious... there is never going to be a Biotic infused with element zero that can use psychic powers. 

 

BTW... I don't have any real loyalty to the definitions - I just think people delude themselves into thinking the science fiction they watch is possible "someday" when most of it is just adventure hokum for fun.

[ioannisdenton]

different games.
Dragon age is more party oriented and at least to me has more lore in terms of quantity. also dragon age games have way more party dialogue than mass effect, also ---> party banter.
Mass effect feels more personal and there is this scifi setting, it also has guns.
 

I cannot choose between the two. I would say ilike mass effect more but then that would sound like a total disservice to the dragon age team.
Its the setting i am more keen on, the scifi setting.

But man... Morrigan and cassandra 

[AlanC9]

@AlanC:  We're the orcs in reality too... and the darkspawn... and, oh, every evil species that utterly destroys its environment in fantasy or sci-fi.

My point was more that it'd be hard to sell Tolkein in an orcish community.

[In Exile]

To be absolutely fair, the Council that opposes them aren't all sunshine and roses either.

That's a whole other issue, and it's a form of government with no effective political legitimacy. They were trying to go for B5 while missing the point of how councils like this function as legitimate governing bodies (hint: it isn't by just excluding all member species from all political decisions).

[Fiskrens]

BTW... I don't have any real loyalty to the definitions - I just think people delude themselves into thinking the science fiction they watch is possible "someday" when most of it is just adventure hokum for fun.

I don't think that many actually think there's any reality in the "science-fiction" of ME - it's as much that as Star Wars - but it still manages to trigger some "What if?" feelings. Something fantasy never can match, simply by being based on "history". Interestingly, it's DA that has the most analytical and intellectual dilemmas of the two; it's usually the other way around.

[Kabraxal]

@Mistic:  Biotics aren't a deliberate magical aspect? 
Yes.. I know they have a "psychic" gloss which is popular in sci-fi to get away with magic... but, let's be serious... there is never going to be a Biotic infused with element zero that can use psychic powers. 
 
BTW... I don't have any real loyalty to the definitions - I just think people delude themselves into thinking the science fiction they watch is possible "someday" when most of it is just adventure hokum for fun.

Never heard the saying sufficiently advanced technology is mistajen for magic I take it. 500 years ago man made flight was viewed as a mere fantasy. Who knows what the future holds.

Not arguing for "likely" for ME style tech, but I wouldn't be surprised if it exists at some point. Hell, teleportation and FTL are starting to look like they aren't impossible. Let's not restrict "hard" scifi to a rather limited definition.

[Geth Supremacy]

Dragon Age used to be good. Mass Effect is good.  It is going to be interesting to see if ME: A goes the way of DA: I

[Medhia_Nox]

Never heard the saying sufficiently advanced technology is mistajen for magic I take it. 500 years ago man made flight was viewed as a mere fantasy. Who knows what the future holds.

Not arguing for "likely" for ME style tech, but I wouldn't be surprised if it exists at some point. Hell, teleportation and FTL are starting to look like they aren't impossible. Let's not restrict "hard" scifi to a rather limited definition.

 

I think someone who makes that claim has no idea about what "magic" is and is myopically obsessed with his own interests (and yes, I like Arthur C. Clarke's books)

 

And it's totally false... if you take a camera to the Amazon and take pictures of them... they don't instantly say: "Magic image box!"  Not every primitve culture thinks cameras will steal their souls... modern people are just as ignorant (more actually) than primitives.  Being able to use an iPhone doesn't make you or I better.

 

That saying was stated by a progressive humanist who ignorantly believed that anyone born before him was a superstitious rube. 

 

If you ever have a chance... crack open an occult text in the real world... you simply couldn't emulate "magic" with science. 

 

It's like saying you could emulate art with science... it's stupid and ignorant - they serve two entirely different functions in humanity.

 

NOTE:  Time travel, FTL travel and teleportation are all considered impossible... in fact, science is FINALLY starting to admit some of these dreams are actually not going to happen... by lay-people still cling to their false idols. 

 

It has always been strange to me that science fanatics seem to think everything is possible when science is as much about what is NOT as it is about what IS. 

[Wulfram]

We've still got the Alcubierre drive to hang our hats on regarding FTL. I mean, its probably impossible but its still possibly possible.

[abaris]

The biggest difference to me is that Mass Effect 3 (and to a lesser extent 2) have legitimately enjoyable combat systems, whereas DAO and DA2's I merely tolerate, and DAI's only bumped the series up to "adequate."

 

I'm at a loss here. What's more enjoyable? The use of guns? Otherwise one's as simplistic as the other, with ME not even eing able to set squad member strategies.

[Addictress]

I think the Mass Effect trilogy is a better gaming experience and has a better protagonist, but due to Trespasser, the Dragon Age lore and overall story arc is becoming a whole other level of its own .

[GoldenGail3]

I think the Mass Effect trilogy is a better gaming experience and has a better protagonist, but due to Trespasser, the Dragon Age lore and overall story arc is becoming a whole other level of its own .

Shepard? Shepard is the ME Hawke. We need a ME Warden (or more so like the Warden) more so than Hawke and I'd like it. After all, I do like the SW progie Revan & The Exile and their both human progies....