284 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

I agree that a citadel DLC wouldn't have worked in any Dragon Age game (I think Inquisition has excellent characters btw. Whether I love or hate them, by the end of the game I had strong feelings on all of them)...but I don't see how this has anything to do with Shepard being human. I mean, the only reason it worked so well with ME3 was because we had 3 whole games to bond with some of these characters while we move into every new DA game with a new cast.

I agree that more could have been done with Shepard's background but nothing much was done with the IQ's other than about two convos.  I mentioned the citadel dlc because I was talking about the depth of Shepard's character and his/her interactions with the companions.  What made Citadel great was Shepard's friendships and interactions with everyone. Not just watching companions be quirky and entertain me. 

 

I don't think being a human automatically makes a good story, but honestly, I'm not the least bit interested in Elven lore nor would I want to play an Asari, Dwarf, Krogan, Quarian et al. Mainly because I just don't think BW does a good job of creating good non human races. The only group I found remotely interesting was the Qunari and sadly the Qunari IQ is just a watered down human with horns.

-----------------------------

As for the blonde and redhead thing. They are rare in ME due to genetic engineering, not a naturally occurring thing.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

As I said... my point is that BioWare seems to be in an impossible position... no matter what they do, no matter how they write this game, they have very little chance of actually pleasing almost anyone here.

I know that they can't please everyone and why not do the impossible? Why not take risks?

[UpUpAway]

I know that they can't please everyone and why not do the impossible? Why not take risks?

 

I'm not the one here trying to lock them into a stringently defined ME universe based on the ME1-3 trilogy.  I'm the one here who has been consistently advocating that people around here just be a little more willing to let Bioware branch out creatively in any way they see fit to try.  I'll make whatever leaps of logic it might take for them to get us to a new place in a new time with a new story... but the responses I'm getting tell me that the status quo here is to hold Bioware to every bit of old "canon" and every player's possible decision in the pseudo-name of science FICTION logic.  Heck, we've even recently had a thread threatening to sue them if they broke with their old fictional canon (which they created in the first place).  I find it more than a little ironic that you're now throwing at me that they should try to do the "impossible"... since opting to try doing the impossible is inherently not the most "logical" course of action in most cases.

 

The reason I'm give ME:A only a "snowball's chance in H***" of actually succeeding with this group here is not because of anything lacking on BioWare's part... it's because of their "so-called" fan base here - A fan base that has been shooting them down for so long over the ending of a single game that they just can't seem to get over it or past it and won't, IMO, allow Bioware any latitude at all to do it either.  They're not speculating on what ME:A could be... they're trying to dictate what it must be in order to please them... and (lol) even to the point of threatening to do things like burn their PCs and homes if it doesn't happen.  I think ME:A could be amazing... if only the people here would give BioWare the latitude to write it BioWare's way.

[Hazegurl]

BW's biggest problem is the fact that they try to please everyone instead of focusing on the story they want to tell.  They already caved in to the race selection crowd and we got the lackluster Inquisitor to thank for that one. Every single time they get a complaint, they choose to go the most extreme route to "fix it" instead of taking the suggestions with a pinch of salt and changing only what they can.  They refuse to remain true to their own ideas and stories and I blame them more than I do the fanbase. Because fans are going to shout about what they don't like and make demands but that doesn't mean they have to cater to them. Just look at CDPR. Some of their fanbase have harassed them about Geralt for years, made claims that they would never play The Witcher series because they can't be a female or change Geralt's face without mods, or because they can't be an elf or dwarf.  CDPR heard the complaints, responded that it goes against their narrative, and left them to continue bitching about it.  Because of this, The Witcher series is better off.  Now that Geralt's story is done, they may explore race selection but it'll most likely be done within reason and only if it doesn't screw up their story, and fans will just ****** about whatever is done anyway.

 

IMO, BW seems overly obsessed with being a socially popular gaming company moreso than actually making a good game and I think it's 100% their own fault.

[Donk]

BW's biggest problem is the fact that they try to please everyone instead of focusing on the story they want to tell. They already caved in to the race selection crowd and we got the lackluster Inquisitor to thank for that one. Every single time they get a complaint, they choose to go the most extreme route to "fix it" instead of taking the suggestions with a pinch of salt and changing only what they can. They refuse to remain true to their own ideas and stories and I blame them more than I do the fanbase. Because fans are going to shout about what they don't like and make demands but that doesn't mean they have to cater to them. Just look at CDPR. Some of their fanbase have harassed them about Geralt for years, made claims that they would never play The Witcher series because they can't be a female or change Geralt's face without mods, or because they can't be an elf or dwarf. CDPR heard the complaints, responded that it goes against their narrative, and left them to continue bitching about it. Because of this, The Witcher series is better off. Now that Geralt's story is done, they may explore race selection but it'll most likely be done within reason and only if it doesn't screw up their story, and fans will just ****** about whatever is done anyway.

IMO, BW seems overly obsessed with being a socially popular gaming company moreso than actually making a good game and I think it's 100% their own fault.

This echoes my own thoughts on the matter.

[goishen]

I'm perfectly fine with playing as a human, seeing as I can see things in other races that typically human.  I just like getting lost in their stories and forgetting about the world for a while, although I'm being smacked up side the head with the world.

[UpUpAway]

BW's biggest problem is the fact that they try to please everyone instead of focusing on the story they want to tell.  They already caved in to the race selection crowd and we got the lackluster Inquisitor to thank for that one. Every single time they get a complaint, they choose to go the most extreme route to "fix it" instead of taking the suggestions with a pinch of salt and changing only what they can.  They refuse to remain true to their own ideas and stories and I blame them more than I do the fanbase. Because fans are going to shout about what they don't like and make demands but that doesn't mean they have to cater to them. Just look at CDPR. Some of their fanbase have harassed them about Geralt for years, made claims that they would never play The Witcher series because they can't be a female or change Geralt's face without mods, or because they can't be an elf or dwarf.  CDPR heard the complaints, responded that it goes against their narrative, and left them to continue bitching about it.  Because of this, The Witcher series is better off.  Now that Geralt's story is done, they may explore race selection but it'll most likely be done within reason and only if it doesn't screw up their story, and fans will just ****** about whatever is done anyway.

 

IMO, BW seems overly obsessed with being a socially popular gaming company moreso than actually making a good game and I think it's 100% their own fault.

 

Again... a case of darned if they do and darned if they don't... most of the fan base are crying that BioWare disrespects all their choices.  You're now representing a side of the fan base that says they cave in to that fan base too easily... and it's still "100% their [BioWare's] fault."  I disagree, I think the fan base on this website has to start to take some responsibility for the level of discord that prevails on this website... the threatened lawsuits, the threats of burning their own homes, the continual bashing of people that indicate they like the endings of the ME trilogy, etc.  Heck, I've even been called a "witch" on one thread for merely being ambidextrous.

 

No situation like this one is ever 100% the fault of one side or the other.  The fan base should also perhaps consider that BioWare is a company comprised of individual people.. creative, emotional, fallible... etc.  If the fan base deserves some latitude... then BioWare also deserves some latitude... we are ALL human after all.

[Fuenf789]

...I think the fan base on this website has to start to take some responsibility for the level of discord that prevails ...

...moron toggle...

...BW's biggest problem is the fact that they try to please everyone...

Instead of you three trying harder to take responsibility to resolve discord

Why not just leave everything put, before something break, sit back and drink a pina colada. Bioware will sent a hat around and then you can drop your $88 in there. That's their speciality.

[Hammerstorm]

Again... a case of darned if they do and darned if they don't... most of the fan base are crying that BioWare disrespects all their choices.  You're now representing a side of the fan base that says they cave in to that fan base too easily... and it's still "100% their [BioWare's] fault."  I disagree, I think the fan base on this website has to start to take some responsibility for the level of discord that prevails on this website... the threatened lawsuits, the threats of burning their own homes, the continual bashing of people that indicate they like the endings of the ME trilogy, etc.  Heck, I've even been called a "witch" on one thread for merely being ambidextrous.

 

No situation like this one is ever 100% the fault of one side or the other.  The fan base should also perhaps consider that BioWare is a company comprised of individual people.. creative, emotional, fallible... etc.  If the fan base deserves some latitude... then BioWare also deserves some latitude... we are ALL human after all.

 

I don't now about all the people on this site, but I am 90% sure that most of the "heavy" things like burning down the house and such is a joke, and should not be taken serious. Most people (and cats and some alien) here are bored and can't avoid to make a scen.

 

So I should take what people post here with a ton of salt.

[Donk]

Instead of you three trying harder to take responsibility to resolve discord

Why not just leave everything put, before something break, sit back and drink a pina colada. Bioware will sent a hat around and then you can drop your $88 in there. That's their speciality.

What are you on about?

The moronic antics of the people in this community are not my responsibility. I merely agreed with a poster about their views.

[UpUpAway]

I don't now about all the people on this site, but I am 90% sure that most of the "heavy" things like burning down the house and such is a joke, and should not be taken serious. Most people (and cats and some alien) here are bored and can't avoid to make a scen.

 

So I should take what people post here with a ton of salt.

 

... and I did say that nothing is 100% the fault of the other, didn't I... so, IMO, embedded in my comment was already a consideration towards the fan base, the others involved in this discussion, and BioWare... yet... it spurs the "reaction" of the poster above you... which is clearly a personal insult whether given in jest or not (It was also a totally predictable thing and I'm not surprised by it).

 

The consequences of all this is, in part, what Hazegurl says... BioWare caves on some fronts and not on others and bears a heavy weight of criticism from both sides at all times.  The situation, however, is not 100% their fault.  Will any of it help ME:A be better or contribute to it's success... I simply don't think so (my opinion) because there is no apparent willingness to compromise beyond BioWare "caving in"... which Hazegurl has said is a "bad thing"... and it is impossible for them to "cave in" and go in both directions at the same time.  It's not a case of BioWare being unwilling to take risks (as implied by the poster I was responding to on that point), but rather that, in this case, attempting to please "both sides" at once truly does seem to be impossible.

[vbibbi]

I must respectfully disagree with your pro-tip as I've roleplayed an alien with a blue and orange morality and while it was difficult to maintain the perspective and act in accordance with the morality, it was doable and yielded a very interesting story especially since the other central character was a human with her own respective morality and culture. The interplay between the two were very interesting especially as the purpose behind the blue and orange morality and the culture of the alien were specifically to avoid a case of an alien being human in all but appearance.

 

Roleplaying is by a definition to assume the attitudes, actions and discourse of another in an effort to understand a differing point of view or social interaction. It is about assuming the mindset of some else regardless of who they might be and however difficult said mindset may be to assume. In fact, assuming a difficult and seemingly unrelatable mindset is the point of some roleplaying sessions.

The problem with this, though, is that the ME trilogy didn't allow for the PC to roleplay orange and blue morality; it was hard coded paragon and renegade. If MEA is going to resemble the same dialogue options, there's not really a lot of roleplaying allowed outside of this duality, unless the player is headcanoning a lot of things off screen. Going in such a different direction than the game's intention is easier for table top games or sandbox style RPGs I think,

[Linkenski]

This echoes my own thoughts on the matter.

Only partially mine. It's also EA's fault because clearly Bioware have created more focus-tested games since their aqcuisition starting with ME2 and DA2 where they clearly turned from being straight RPG makers into being mainstream action samey console makers. Luckily they tend to blend action with RPG pretty fine all things considered, but they're not that big, amazing RPG company that brought them to fame in the first place, anymore.

[Hazegurl]

Again... a case of darned if they do and darned if they don't...

Of course it is.  That's the price you pay for releasing a product and asking people to pay for it.  I like the way cdpr handles criticism. When we complained about how Triss was handled, they responded and fixed only what they could. When we complained about how the Wild Hunt was handled, they chose to focus on the DLCs instead.  When people complained about them fixing the Triss romance, they responded that it was a legit issue. cdpr knows they can't please everyone so they don't try to. They think of the narrative they wish to tell first and if a change is worth the effort, then they will do it.  It's only natural that the complaints from the fanbase will come from different sides because we all have things we love and hate about a product. Trying to please everyone is just a fool's errand.  I wasn't happy with ME3's ending, but I respect the ME team for sticking to their narrative and compromised by making some minor changes to the ending and creating the Citadel DLC.  I think that is a good compromise. Even though I prefer the MEHEM.

 

BW/EA is 100% at fault, IMO. They have total control over what criticism they will listen to and what changes, if any, they will make.  The only power the fanbase has is the power to hold on to their money. Besides, the devs don't even come here anymore, they prefer Reddit, Twitter, and Tumblr where they can be fawned over for their progressiveness.  No one in this forum has any power to make the devs do anything because they aren't listening.

[Akrabra]

Only partially mine. It's also EA's fault because clearly Bioware have created more focus-tested games since their aqcuisition starting with ME2 and DA2 where they clearly turned from being straight RPG makers into being mainstream action samey console makers. Luckily they tend to blend action with RPG pretty fine all things considered, but they're not that big, amazing RPG company that brought them to fame in the first place, anymore.

Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins was already in production when EA came into picture though. So i don't count those games as EA games, even though they published both. And while Mass Effect 2 streamlined its leveling system, the combat was much deeper and required more of you as a player. I have never seen that as a negative.

 

They will never be the same developer that made Baldurs Gate II, KOTOR or even Dragon Age Origins, i've accepted that fact years ago, but they can be a great developer of a new generation of RPG's, they just have to find out what they want it to be. I don't think Dragon Age II, Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age Inquisition are bad games, but they have suffered from the EA takeover, people leaving Bioware and lack of vision. I think when they find their new vision we will be witness to something awesome. I think Andromeda will be that title. We'll see. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Heck, I've even been called a "witch" on one thread for merely being ambidextrous.

 

Wow thin skin much brohan, that was a joke.

 

._. and a reference to a awesome animated comedy you should definitely check out, because its better then anything on right now.

[UpUpAway]

Wow thin skin much brohan, that was a joke.

 

._. and a reference to a awesome animated comedy you should definitely check out, because its better then anything on right now.

 

Yawn

[The Hierophant]

Yawn

Heretic.

[Master Warder Z_]

Heretic.

Pretty much.

Code Monkeys was ahead of its era or behind its era one or the other.

But meh he's a witch.

[The Hierophant]

Pretty much.

Code Monkeys was ahead of its era or behind its era one or the other.

But meh he's a witch.

And an apostate at that too.

[Neophyte]

It means they're catering to 90% of the playerbase.. instead of the reverse

10% of the playerbase are dogs or cats
confirmed.

 

Humans are the superspecialawesome race in every way, shape, and form. 

Every race should risk everything to save Earth because Earth is more important than any other world.

...

 

Because Earth was one of (the first?) world to be attacked, so in that context it made a lot of sense, and proved that the council are incompetent morons in ME3.
Especially the Asari and their councilor.

The biggest case though for a human protagonist, this way with one protagonist M/F they can continue the story with them if they want to make a trilogy or not, which is i'm guessing what they're going to do and hope so, which is what made ME such a successful series and made us (or is just me) "attached" to it, same hero in trilogy with his/her choices.

Several different races would ruin that and make it impossible, I don't think Bioware wants a new hero for every game, not in ME at least.

Different formats for different games.

[In Exile]

Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins was already in production when EA came into picture though. So i don't count those games as EA games, even though they published both. And while Mass Effect 2 streamlined its leveling system, the combat was much deeper and required more of you as a player. I have never seen that as a negative.

 

They will never be the same developer that made Baldurs Gate II, KOTOR or even Dragon Age Origins, i've accepted that fact years ago, but they can be a great developer of a new generation of RPG's, they just have to find out what they want it to be. I don't think Dragon Age II, Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age Inquisition are bad games, but they have suffered from the EA takeover, people leaving Bioware and lack of vision. I think when they find their new vision we will be witness to something awesome. I think Andromeda will be that title. We'll see. 

 

EA acquired Bioware while ME1 was in production. I'm pretty sure that ME2 was purely made while owned by EA. And it's funny you mention BGII, KoTOR and DA:O, because the people who liked BGII tend to talk about what a huge flop KoTOR and DA:O were. And I mean the ones with a real hard-on for BGII. If you want a place that's lukewarm even toward BGII, go to the RPG codex and see how they treat DA:O.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Because Earth was one of (the first?) world to be attacked, so in that context it made a lot of sense, and proved that the council are incompetent morons in ME3.

Especially the Asari and their councilor.

The biggest case though for a human protagonist, this way with one protagonist M/F they can continue the story with them if they want to make a trilogy or not, which is i'm guessing what they're going to do and hope so, which is what made ME such a successful series and made us (or is just me) "attached" to it, same hero in trilogy with his/her choices.

Several different races would ruin that and make it impossible, I don't think Bioware wants a new hero for every game, not in ME at least.

Different formats for different games.

Except Earth wasn't the first world attacked, nor was it the first homeworld or even the first human world hit. The only reason Earth was made to be so important was because it was humanity's homeworld. There was nothing else exclusive to it that the entire galaxy should risk all their forces on on Earth exclusively.

I will agree that everyone was handed the Idiot Ball in ME3, both on our side and especially the enemy's side. 

 

There is nothing to support your assertion that having multiple races excludes the possibility of a returning protagonist.

[Mdizzletr0n]

10% of the playerbase are dogs or cats
confirmed.


Because Earth was one of (the first?) world to be attacked, so in that context it made a lot of sense, and proved that the council are incompetent morons in ME3.
Especially the Asari and their councilor.

The biggest case though for a human protagonist, this way with one protagonist M/F they can continue the story with them if they want to make a trilogy or not, which is i'm guessing what they're going to do and hope so, which is what made ME such a successful series and made us (or is just me) "attached" to it, same hero in trilogy with his/her choices.

Several different races would ruin that and make it impossible, I don't think Bioware wants a new hero for every game, not in ME at least.
Different formats for different games.

Well to be fair, the alliance were incompetent morons too...

[Donk]

Only partially mine. It's also EA's fault because clearly Bioware have created more focus-tested games since their aqcuisition starting with ME2 and DA2 where they clearly turned from being straight RPG makers into being mainstream action samey console makers. Luckily they tend to blend action with RPG pretty fine all things considered, but they're not that big, amazing RPG company that brought them to fame in the first place, anymore.

It's not entirely the console crowd's fault though. You will find that many "mainstream" PC gamers have a preference to flashy visuals, voice acting as opposed to the classic isometric and text based games which due to not chewing up resources, offer more of an RPG experience.
The best balance between the two IMO was Dragon Age Origins but then there were complaints about the silent protagonist.
Which brings me to the point which Hazegurl made: a large of number of people complain about something so they take it to the extreme opposite direction.
Add to that, RPGs have changed. They aren't what they were before. They have evolved (or devolved) depending on ones viewpoint. Mainstream gamers want a 3D open world with stunning visuals and voice acting. Just look at Fallout, which is now completely different to what it was originally. The isometric, classic style just won't sell as well as a Bethesda Skyrim style game. And again I say it isn't just to appease console gamers, it's the PC crowd that want it too. That's just the way the wind blows.