284 réponses à ce sujet

[Gothfather]

Only partially mine. It's also EA's fault because clearly Bioware have created more focus-tested games since their aqcuisition starting with ME2 and DA2 where they clearly turned from being straight RPG makers into being mainstream action samey console makers. Luckily they tend to blend action with RPG pretty fine all things considered, but they're not that big, amazing RPG company that brought them to fame in the first place, anymore.

LMAO. yeah because Kotor wasn't an action RPG designed first and foremost for the console market nor was Jade empire. This is typical of gamers, I like Bioware and hate EA as companies so anything Bioware does that i don't agree with its the fault of EA. Even when studios clearly articulate that EA doesn't micromanage their studios and 'gives you enough rope to hang yourself,' it is still EA's fault. It is demonstrably false to say that it is EA that pushed the console market on Bioware they clearly were hip deep into that market with their past titles and they had already made the switch to more action orientated RPGs well before EA was on the scene. But it is Fashionable to blame EA the facts be damned.

 

Most of the egregious practices by EA have been with their marketing and DRM policies yet because they have been particularly bad in these two areas they MUST be responsible for everything I don't like in game published by them. EA is a PUBLISHER they are not a developer, when you buy an EA game that has features you don't like that is the fault of the DEVELOPER not the publisher.

[straykat]

Well, personally my first exposure to Bioware was an original Xbox version of Kotor. So no hate here I wouldn't have been a fan without it.

 

If anything, I'd say Bioware doesn't take advantage of "console" gaming enough. Their version of 3rd person action still doesn't live up to most console 3rd person action games. Although I'm not sure they're trying to either.

[Akrabra]

EA acquired Bioware while ME1 was in production. I'm pretty sure that ME2 was purely made while owned by EA. And it's funny you mention BGII, KoTOR and DA:O, because the people who liked BGII tend to talk about what a huge flop KoTOR and DA:O were. And I mean the ones with a real hard-on for BGII. If you want a place that's lukewarm even toward BGII, go to the RPG codex and see how they treat DA:O.  

People still use RPG Codex? If i wanted to be depressed i'd just go to No Mutants Allowed. 

[straykat]

People still use RPG Codex? If i wanted to be depressed i'd just go to Nu Mutants Allowed. 

 

Seriously.. even my grumpiness levels can't hold up to that place.

[UpUpAway]

Of course it is.  That's the price you pay for releasing a product and asking people to pay for it.  I like the way cdpr handles criticism. When we complained about how Triss was handled, they responded and fixed only what they could. When we complained about how the Wild Hunt was handled, they chose to focus on the DLCs instead.  When people complained about them fixing the Triss romance, they responded that it was a legit issue. cdpr knows they can't please everyone so they don't try to. They think of the narrative they wish to tell first and if a change is worth the effort, then they will do it.  It's only natural that the complaints from the fanbase will come from different sides because we all have things we love and hate about a product. Trying to please everyone is just a fool's errand.  I wasn't happy with ME3's ending, but I respect the ME team for sticking to their narrative and compromised by making some minor changes to the ending and creating the Citadel DLC.  I think that is a good compromise. Even though I prefer the MEHEM.

 

BW/EA is 100% at fault, IMO. They have total control over what criticism they will listen to and what changes, if any, they will make.  The only power the fanbase has is the power to hold on to their money. Besides, the devs don't even come here anymore, they prefer Reddit, Twitter, and Tumblr where they can be fawned over for their progressiveness.  No one in this forum has any power to make the devs do anything because they aren't listening.

 

I don't blame them for not coming here anymore.  The only thing allowed to happen here is to keep rehashing ME3's endings over and over again.  Every thread deteriorates in the same direction over and over again.  (This thread was set up from the outset to basically rehash ME3.... since the video posted basically only discusses what it meant to be human in the Milky Way Galaxy during the ME Trilogy.)

 

Given how all these threads play out the same way, I think any reasonable company would stop coming by here, TBH.  If you want to give them full 100% credit for being smart enough to stay away from here, I'd go with that... so I guess we can agree that is 100% Bioware's fault..  Doesn't do anything to improve anything around here though... just means this is anything but a fan site... only people who hate BioWare are still here (maybe even competitors)... waiting for noobs to come onto the site so they can chew on them a little (lol & yawn).

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I'm not the one here trying to lock them into a stringently defined ME universe based on the ME1-3 trilogy. I'm the one here who has been consistently advocating that people around here just be a little more willing to let Bioware branch out creatively in any way they see fit to try. I'll make whatever leaps of logic it might take for them to get us to a new place in a new time with a new story... but the responses I'm getting tell me that the status quo here is to hold Bioware to every bit of old "canon" and every player's possible decision in the pseudo-name of science FICTION logic. Heck, we've even recently had a thread threatening to sue them if they broke with their old fictional canon (which they created in the first place). I find it more than a little ironic that you're now throwing at me that they should try to do the "impossible"... since opting to try doing the impossible is inherently not the most "logical" course of action in most cases.

The reason I'm give ME:A only a "snowball's chance in H***" of actually succeeding with this group here is not because of anything lacking on BioWare's part... it's because of their "so-called" fan base here - A fan base that has been shooting them down for so long over the ending of a single game that they just can't seem to get over it or past it and won't, IMO, allow Bioware any latitude at all to do it either. They're not speculating on what ME:A could be... they're trying to dictate what it must be in order to please them... and (lol) even to the point of threatening to do things like burn their PCs and homes if it doesn't happen. I think ME:A could be amazing... if only the people here would give BioWare the latitude to write it BioWare's way.

I understand. But people have the right to complain that a game that they expected to live up to it's name and people paid premium price for them. Now you always find some a-holes who threatens writers and designers of death threats, hoping they're fired, or any malicious content.(For BioWare reps) **** THEM a-holes and keep stepping. And yes you do find haters regardless but screw them too and keep on moving.

[In Exile]

Except Earth wasn't the first world attacked, nor was it the first homeworld or even the first human world hit. The only reason Earth was made to be so important was because it was humanity's homeworld. There was nothing else exclusive to it that the entire galaxy should risk all their forces on on Earth exclusively.

I will agree that everyone was handed the Idiot Ball in ME3, both on our side and especially the enemy's side. 

 

There is nothing to support your assertion that having multiple races excludes the possibility of a returning protagonist.

 

That has nothing to do with humanity being special, and everything to do with [insert Halo copy & paste here]. Earth being the centre piece of the game had nothing to do with how Bioware portrayed humanity as special. 

[Shechinah]

That has nothing to do with humanity being special, and everything to do with [insert Halo copy & paste here]. Earth being the centre piece of the game had nothing to do with how Bioware portrayed humanity as special. 

 

I do still feel it was unwarranted that it became the centre piece considering the Citadel seemed to have been built up as the centre piece even past Mass Effect 1 even if it was unintentional on the part of the developers. 

 

We visited the Citadel in each game, we could explore levels of it in each game and we did quests there in each game. This was way more than we ever experienced of Earth. I don't even think we even saw the place on-planet until Mass Effec 3.
 

[In Exile]

I do still feel it was unwarranted that it became the centre piece considering the Citadel seemed to have been built up as the centre piece even past Mass Effect 1 even if it was unintentional on the part of the developers. 

 

We visited the Citadel in each game, we could explore levels of it in each game and we did quests there in each game. This was way more than we ever experienced of Earth. I don't even think we even saw the place on-planet until Mass Effec 3.

 

It's incredibly stupid, don't get me wrong. I just don't think it has anything to do with humans being special as a trope. In Halo it did, funny enough, because there were plot reasons for having to have it on Earth. 

[Shechinah]

It's incredibly stupid, don't get me wrong. I just don't think it has anything to do with humans being special as a trope. In Halo it did, funny enough, because there were plot reasons for having to have it on Earth. 

 

Yeah, it seems like it could be that they assumed players would have a personal investment in Earth for being Earth but did not realize that in most fiction that tends to require building a personal connection between the place and the player for the latter to develop a personal investment in the former.
 

[In Exile]

Yeah, it seems like it could be that they assumed players would have a personal investment in Earth for being Earth but did not realize that in most fiction that tends to require building a personal connection between the place and the player for the latter to develop a personal investment in the former.

 

It's not as if you have to work very hard to get people to hate the Reapers - they're Space Nazis with an industrialized galactic genocide factory. Ignoring for a moment the zen moment that led Bioware to ask the question "What if our Space Nazis are the good guys all along?" the issue with Earth as a setting is that it's actually not. We start on Earth, except we don't really see it, and then we spend the whole game not on Earth, only to end up on Earth for the end-game.

 

It's totally superfluous to the plot. 

[Shechinah]

It's not as if you have to work very hard to get people to hate the Reapers - they're Space Nazis with an industrialized galactic genocide factory. Ignoring for a moment the zen moment that led Bioware to ask the question "What if our Space Nazis are the good guys all along?" the issue with Earth as a setting is that it's actually not. We start on Earth, except we don't really see it, and then we spend the whole game not on Earth, only to end up on Earth for the end-game.

 

It's totally superfluous to the plot. 

 

You know, when Shepard recieved the news about the Citadel in Mass Effect 3, I remember my first thoughts being towards the people like Kolyat that I knew lived there and being worried about whether or not they'd gotten away in time. After the game had ended, I was actually trying to look to see if I could find something that said what happened to them.

 

That was personal investment. I had and felt none of that towards Earth. Stopping the Reapers there was a professional investment; It had to be done because the Reapers were a threat but not because I cared about Earth personally.

 

Even when the Normandy was leaving Earth and you saw the planet, the burning ships and the Reapers descending, my thoughts were about hoping that my Shepard's mother was okay because last I knew she was stationed onboard a ship in the fleet.
 

[UpUpAway]

I understand. But people have the right to complain that a game that they expected to live up to it's name and people paid premium price for them. Now you always find some a-holes who threatens writers and designers of death threats, hoping they're fired, or any malicious content.(For BioWare reps) **** THEM a-holes and keep stepping. And yes you do find haters regardless but screw them too and keep on moving.

 

Shouldn't this section of the forum be more about looking forward to a game that hasn't been released yet?

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Shouldn't this section of the forum be more about looking forward to a game that hasn't been released yet?

Well people are skeptical and not getting their hopes up till they see the game for themselves to decide that it's worth playing or not and I am one of them. I just hope they don't screw this up.

[BioFan (Official)]

Shouldn't this section of the forum be more about looking forward to a game that hasn't been released yet?

 

Agreed. 

[d1ta]

I'd love to have a bunch of different race, because hey, the more choices the better right?

Although I did CRINGE HEAVILY in DAI when my Lavellan's FIRST (one who is groomed to be the next Lore Keeper) asked a shem 'who is Mythal'. That was inexcusible for me.

I'd rather they avoid this kind of mistake in their future games. IF they can make multiple race and done it right, kudos!
But it seemed they took the path in simplifying it by making it a single race in (hopefully) making a better and tighter narative as well as reactivity.

I guess I really don't mind either way

[Hazegurl]

Given how all these threads play out the same way, I think any reasonable company would stop coming by here, TBH.  If you want to give them full 100% credit for being smart enough to stay away from here, I'd go with that... so I guess we can agree that is 100% Bioware's fault..  Doesn't do anything to improve anything around here though... just means this is anything but a fan site... only people who hate BioWare are still here (maybe even competitors)... waiting for noobs to come onto the site so they can chew on them a little (lol & yawn).

I doubt competitors are sitting in a BW forum just to trash a game, they're too busy making their own stuff,.  The point I'm trying to make, is that people will complain, that's what folks do, esp when their money  is involved. BW is a company releasing a product they hope people would pay money for.  They are not releasing games for free, they aren't a charity, and they don't deserve auto loyalty for just existing. They also don't deserve death threats or to be harassed either. But they most certainly shouldn't be free of criticism.  Anyway, it's up to BW to decide what they want to do with their own games and consumers to decide what they want to do with their money.

 

Well people are skeptical and not getting their hopes up till they see the game for themselves to decide that it's worth playing or not and I am one of them. I just hope they don't screw this up.

 

That's sort of where I am. So far I'm far more of a Mass Effect fan than a Dragon Age fan. BW hasn't really failed me with the ME series so I am looking forward to it.  However, with the "success" of DAI coming after the "failure" of ME 3, I am a bit skeptical and won't be buying the game until I check out some reviews and watch a few streamers play a few parts.

[The Elder King]

I doubt competitors are sitting in a BW forum just to trash a game, they're too busy making their own stuff,.  The point I'm trying to make, is that people will complain, that's what folks do, esp when their money  is involved. BW is a company releasing a product they hope people would pay money for.  They are not releasing games for free, they aren't a charity, and they don't deserve auto loyalty for just existing. They also don't deserve death threats or to be harassed either. But they most certainly shouldn't be free of criticism.  Anyway, it's up to BW to decide what they want to do with their own games and consumers to decide what they want to do with their money.

 

That's sort of where I am. So far I'm far more of a Mass Effect fan than a Dragon Age fan. BW hasn't really failed me with the ME series so I am looking forward to it.  However, with the "success" of DAI coming after the "failure" of ME 3, I am a bit skeptical and won't be buying the game until I check out some reviews and watch a few streamers play a few parts.

Well, the success and failure of those games were caused by different things. My major point of interest is that they'd improve on their open world system to fit it better their narrative style. Expecially because others did a better job, at least in this regards.

 

The race option isn't something that it'd change for MEA anyway. It'd make a lot less sense then DAI from what we know about the plot, unless they make some huge overhaul of it (and it'd still lock out turians and quarians, since they need their owns expedictions and planets), so for those concerned of the race options taking too much resources on the game, it won't happen (almost surely).

[Laughing_Man]

the issue with Earth as a setting is that it's actually not. We start on Earth, except we don't really see it, and then we spend the whole game not on Earth, only to end up on Earth for the end-game.

 

It's totally superfluous to the plot. 

 

Yes, but then how would EA be able to use "Save Earth" for their marketing slogan?...

[Shechinah]

Yes, but then how would EA be able to use "Save Earth" for their marketing slogan?...

 

Well, we would still be saving Earth by stopping the Reapers even if the attention was elsewhere so the slogan would hold true.
 

[N7Jamaican]

What's wrong with playing as a human? We are all human aren't we? I do enjoy playing a Drell in multi-player.  And actually, if you find the right group of people, you can roleplay during your multi-player matches and create your own 'head canon.'

[agonis]

Yes, but the difference is that (human)men and women actually exist. It's not really that hard for some people to slip into the shes of the opposite gender.
 

It matters when resources are finite and money and people's jobs are on the line.
 

...the hell does that mean?
 

This was all in your head, as a result of using your imagination. But you were still just a human pretending to be an alien, not actually RPing an alien. These cultures and social interactions are all made up by people. You are inherently incapable of RPing as an alien because of this. Until humans make contact with actual sentient alien life and their culture/s become known to us you're just RPing as a human pretending to be an alien.
 

That is not the definition of role playing. There is no cultural or sociological agenda inherent to role playing.

 You are making it difficult for no reason.

[Shechinah]

What's wrong with playing as a human? We are all human aren't we? I do enjoy playing a Drell in multi-player.  And actually, if you find the right group of people, you can roleplay during your multi-player matches and create your own 'head canon.'

 

Eh, the Mass Effect's humanity has potential but I felt like they left behind a lot of interesting things at the end of the first Mass Effect game. It didn't help that I was not invested in the Cerberus angle because of certain things and that how humanity had been portrayed made Cererus seem an unnecessary organization in-universe in terms of their political and sociological agenda: humanity did not seem to have that much difficulty in galactic society.

 

Additionally, I did not feel like we actually learned that much about humanity in Mass Effect like in terms of cultures that exist on Earth or the colonies. To me, as a race they oddly seemed a bit... bland?  

 

You know, the whole thing about how a seat on the Council meant a race had to be able to provide economical assistance amongst others in times of crisis seemed like it stopped being a thing.
 

[Panda]

What's wrong with playing as a human? We are all human aren't we? I do enjoy playing a Drell in multi-player.  And actually, if you find the right group of people, you can roleplay during your multi-player matches and create your own 'head canon.'

 

You answered to your own question. Playing as sth you are is simply less fun than playing as sth you are not. There is reason why tons of games have race selections.

[Seraphim24]

What apparently would be truly novel is to say that all the Bioware games aren't actually super incredibly different from each other, all that have been released are reasonable games except I guess I heard bad things about that mobile ME game but it looked interesting to me to be honest.

 

That said, I'm pretty sure BG2 was a better game than KOTOR or JE, which in turn are not action games but RPGs.