I hope he gets the TIM treatment... At least this time it's deserved.
Ah yes, there we go. That's a good example.
But let me add that I need romance scene with Lavellan before he kills himself.
I know it's super creepy that I keep bringing this up, but it's super important and I don't exactly know what I'll do if I don't get what I want.
Ah yes, there we go. That's a good example.
But let me add that I need romance scene with Lavellan before he kills himself.
I know it's super creepy that I keep bringing this up, but it's super important and I don't exactly know what I'll do if I don't get what I want.
Be annoyed and post on the internet about it?
You really think that Bioware won't give an option to save Solas?
I might not have been clear. I don't think Solas will give extra options to a romance'd character, whatever they may be, re: Solas. I think Trespasser makes it clear that there will be a chance to redeem Solas (though I think it will cheapen his story if he actually is truly deterred from his path).
People really misunderstand his Tranquil analogy. What Solas is trying to do is explain to the Inquisitor how fundamentally limited modern people are - they are essentially missing something to him so fundamental to being a fully realized person that he initially couldn't conceive of them as whole.
The other thing is that Solas, unlike most antagonists, isn't actually someone who wants to hurt people. He's very aversive to it, apart from the moments where he totally loses his cool (and even then). He might not see modern people as people (as one might not see Tranquil as people) but that doesn't mean he thinks it right to mistreat them.
I don't see how this invalidates the dissonance from him being friendly rather than contemptuous at the beginning of the game. Or if not contemptuous, then at least pitying. I would think that he should treat someone missing the ability to be a fully realized being differently than how he does before romancing or befriending the PC and Inner Circle. It comes across as if he's discussing the "Tranquil" state of the world academically to an equal when he speaks of it; I think he should have instead be lamenting the state of the world, his mask slipping just like when he mentions the Winter Palace politics, and vent about the different world he's in. Because no matter how much he loves/respects the Inquisitor by the end of Trespasser, a good two/three years after meeting the Inquisitor, he's still willing to let them die because he still doesn't quite think of people as people.
I might not have been clear. I don't think Solas will give extra options to a romance'd character, whatever they may be, re: Solas. I think Trespasser makes it clear that there will be a chance to redeem Solas (though I think it will cheapen his story if he actually is truly deterred from his path).
I don't want him to be deterred either. I want to find a way to accomplish his goal without hurting anyone.
I disagree to an extent. He's polite in Haven sure, but he's also distant and very controlled, one could say cold (and I don't just mean cus he had no shoes lol). Then you get moments from him like those throughout "All New Faded for Her", his drunk-on-intrigue attitude slip in the Winter Palace, his curt and decidedly less polite attitude with Morrigan in the Temple of Mythal, and his banter evolving his relationships with the rest of the inner circle and you see him basically thaw out. He was never a mean kind of cold, but there were walls and there was emotional distance and it lessens a lot over the course of the game.
I think considering him a megalomaniac is a step too far for the moment. I see where you are coming from with it, but I don't think he qualifies just yet. He may in the future, depending on his actions. But right now I think he's someone who is genuinely trying to do something necessary for the greater good, rather than his intent being to exert his ego/power over others. He can easily slip into the latter in the future, of course. It'll come down to whether he really cares about what's right or not in the end. If you show him another path, will he be humble/willing enough to take it? Or will he not, and show in the process that it really is about ego?
See, one of the main differences btwn Solas and Anders is that Solas says he wants to be proven wrong. He leaves that door open. By Act 3, Vengeance/Anders moved well past that, to the point where he says there is no way he can be wrong. There is hope for the former. There wasn't any for the latter in the end.
A defining trait of a megalomaniac.
Like Merrill - he believes he is a chosen one. That he is meant for a greater purpose to lead his people. This blinds him to any dangers that following his purpose can cause. That's pretty much textbook megalomaniac.
Anders wasn't a megalomaniac... he had a martyr complex.
@Xilizhra: That would totally end my interest in DA. What happens if they don't give you a way to do what he wants without an apocalypse? Is it a "too bad, it would have been nice to avoid but we're killing these millions of people anyway."?
EDIT:
@In Exile: I disagree about Solas and hurting people.
I think it makes him feel righteous to act like he doesn't want to kill people. To "struggle" with it even though his mind is made up. After all, if he struggles - how could he be a monster.
Real monsters struggle with the evil crap they do all the time... they still do it.
@Xilizhra: That would totally end my interest in DA. What happens if they don't give you a way to do what he wants without an apocalypse? Is it a "too bad, it would have been nice to avoid but we're killing these millions of people anyway."?
I'm almost certain that we won't have the option to help in that case, so it's a nonissue.
I get the feeling that if there is indeed an option to "redeem" Solas it will take the form of convincing him not to sunder the Fade or to fix it again or something like that. Not allowing him to enact his plan sans the genocide.
I somehow doubt Solas hasn't tried to think of other ways that were less murdery given his own aversion to taking lives if it can be helped.
He's only been awake for a year, it's strongly possible that there are techniques necessary that he doesn't know about yet. Hope remains.
I wouldn't get my hopes up, BioWare has a tradition of not allowing us to go along with the antagonists' plans. Saren, The Collectors, Loghain, Orsino/Meredith, Corypheus. The only exception I can think of is TIM and he had to die/commit suicide before we could do that and even then it wasn't the same as he set it up to be.
Well, according to some, Synthesis is the ability to go along with Saren's plans. Loghain's plan is fulfilled either way, because you save Ferelden without the help of Orlais. Orsino's plan is fulfilled in the mage ending of DA2, it's just that Orsino himself dies. Only Corypheus gets screwed over, and his master plan lives in in a more socially responsible way in Calpernia, who isn't dead and may be an ally in the fourth game.
Oh Bioware, it's never too late to surprise us.
It's never too late my dear
And according to some the world is flat but all know it's not true. Saren may have said something similar to synthesis but in actuality he advocated appeasement not equality. Loghain's plans also include staying in power as the regent for his daughter which inevitably fails, I imagine most world states don't have his daughter staying as sole ruler either.
Orsino/Meredith both die and their final actions are in opposition to their faction's goals. Neither one wins. You can argue that in the large scale one side or another wins due to the Inquisition but it's not die to the actions of either ruler (furthermore as always the new state of the world puta both on the back burner with rival circles, rebellions, and whatnot).
Calpernia isn't intent on making herself a god and brinign back the world of 1000yrs ago. She's a Tevinter nationalist.
Loghain's fine with Alistair marrying Anora if he lives.
Also, one very important point is that none of these characters are party members or love interests, and we've never been forced to kill or derail the life goals of a love interest.
This is also the first time we've had a love interest turn into an honest to Maker antagonist. Furthermore its unlikely the Inquisition will the protagonist rendering his LI status moot.Loghain's fine with Alistair marrying Anora if he lives.
Also, one very important point is that none of these characters are party members or love interests, and we've never been forced to kill or derail the life goals of a love interest.
They always have some secret plan. If we get another apostate companion in DA4, I will know.
I'm betting that, if we do get this apostate LI companion in DA4 again, they'll be the paragon of goodness, righteousness, and straightforward intentions, just to buck past trends and throw everyone off. lol
No. He will EITHER die OR be redeemed.
He can still possibly die and be "redeemed"....even though I myself will straight up axe him, if we have the option.
Also, just because you declare your desire to redeem him in the end of Trespasser absolutely DOES NOT guarantee that it will happen. At all.
This is also the first time we've had a love interest turn into an honest to Maker antagonist. Furthermore its unlikely the Inquisition will the protagonist rendering his LI status moot.
Anders, sort of. Also, no, the Inquisitor is going to be in the game somehow.
He can still possibly die and be "redeemed"....even though I myself will straight up axe him, if we have the option.
Also, just because you declare your desire to redeem him in the end of Trespasser absolutely DOES NOT guarantee that it will happen. At all.
Neither does your desire to kill him guarantee that.
Anders isn't really an antagonist even in the Templar path. If rivalled he's not responsible for his actions, if friendship you agree with him and are thus unlikely to oppose him.
The bolded there is not actually true. I had Anders on the friendship path b/c I used to show mercy to mages in instances where I felt it warranted (among other things I did that he approved of), but I certainly never got polled on whether I'd be ok with him blowing up Elthina. The answer would have been a sound No. I urged restraint, patience, optimism, etc. with him whenever his despair over the conditions of mages in the Gallows came up in conversation.
He can still possibly die and be "redeemed"....even though I myself will straight up axe him, if we have the option.
Also, just because you declare your desire to redeem him in the end of Trespasser absolutely DOES NOT guarantee that it will happen. At all.
Neither does your desire to kill him guarantee that.
I'm perfectly aware of that.
I don't see how this invalidates the dissonance from him being friendly rather than contemptuous at the beginning of the game. Or if not contemptuous, then at least pitying. I would think that he should treat someone missing the ability to be a fully realized being differently than how he does before romancing or befriending the PC and Inner Circle. It comes across as if he's discussing the "Tranquil" state of the world academically to an equal when he speaks of it; I think he should have instead be lamenting the state of the world, his mask slipping just like when he mentions the Winter Palace politics, and vent about the different world he's in. Because no matter how much he loves/respects the Inquisitor by the end of Trespasser, a good two/three years after meeting the Inquisitor, he's still willing to let them die because he still doesn't quite think of people as people.
Well, it's academic because he's trying to relate a concept to us we have no point of reference to understand. Again, I think what Cole says is very telling. Whenever he talks about Solas and his views on the modern world, the word he uses is "real". I come back to how we all view "In Hushed Whispers" and the world created there - as a kind of transitive illusion, a future that shouldn't exist.
I don't want him to be deterred either. I want to find a way to accomplish his goal without hurting anyone.
There's very clear no way to do it - his goal is to fundamentally rip apart reality. It's not entirely clear that his world was at all better than the current one, either. He thinks it was, but he doesn't tell us very much about it other than his society was so abominable that he rebelled against it and the Evanuris were so awful that he risked the effective extinction of his entire race to stop them.
There's very clear no way to do it - his goal is to fundamentally rip apart reality. It's not entirely clear that his world was at all better than the current one, either. He thinks it was, but he doesn't tell us very much about it other than his society was so abominable that he rebelled against it and the Evanuris were so awful that he risked the effective extinction of his entire race to stop them.
If there's a way to partition a section of the world off and drop the veil there, or create a pocket dimension where ancient elves could live and be immortal and in touch with the Fade like the Crossroads and such, that might be able to work.
It's not without it's pitfalls. We'd have to establish a society that would either be kept in consistent contact with the rest of the world, or permanently cut off from it entirely. If its only half measures in that aspect, eventually either the Elvhen or the moderns Thedosians will lose touch with the other group and start to consider them Not People and we'll have a war on our hands.
But if its possible to setup and it means no one has to die, it might be worth the risk.
The time of the ancient elves is over. Time for the world to move on from that.
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